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    RUSSIA - INDIA Military Contracts

    medo
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    Post  medo Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:11 pm

    George1 wrote:Chinese use their Su-30MKKs as bombers for their Navy

    No, Chinese NAVY use Su-30MK2. Chinese air force use SU-30MKK as ground attack fighter bomber, because its N001VE radar doesn't have air to sea modes. They were added to N001VEP radar in Su-30MK2. KD-88 missile used by Su-30MKK is land attack cruise missile, not anti-ship missile. Indian air force doesn't have equivalent to KD-88 cruise missile.
    George1
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    Post  George1 Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:06 am

    India has signed a contract for the purchase of 1,000 air-to-air guided missiles in Russia


    As reported on July 30, 2019, the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation (FSMTC) of the Russian Federation, India and Russia signed a contract for the supply of about 1,000 missiles to India. “Some time ago, fairly large contracts for aviation missiles were signed, involving the supply of about 1,000 missiles of various purposes,” the FSMTC reports.

    In turn, the magazine "Jane's Defense Weekly" in the article Rahul Bedi, Dmitry Fediushko "India signs USD700 million deal with Russia for 1,000 additional air-to-air missiles" reported that military sources in New Delhi and Moscow confirmed the fact of signing in early July 2019, agreements on the purchase by India in Russia of 1000 air-to-air guided missiles worth about $ 700 million.

    The delivery will include 300 medium-range air-to-air missiles of the R-27 series, 300 short-range R-73E missiles and 400 medium-range RVV-AE missiles. The R-27 series missiles belong to the Р-27Р1/ЭР1 and Р-27Т1/ЭТ1 modifications and are intended for armament of Su-30MKI and MiG-29 UPG fighters of the Indian Air Force, RVV-AE and R-73E missiles. in addition to these two types of fighter jets, the MiG-21 UPG fighters are also arming themselves. Also, the Indian Air Force are working to integrate the R-73E missiles into the weapons of Dassault Mirage 2000H fighters.

    A day earlier, on July 29, 2019, the Indian news agency ANI reported, citing sources in the Indian government, that the Indian side had signed a contract with Russia for the purchase of a large batch of medium-range air missiles of the R-27 class of Rs. 1,500 crore (about 217.5 million dollars). Earlier in June, the Indian government reported that the planned purchase of another 700 air-to-air guided missiles for the Indian Air Force in India — 300 short-range R-73E missiles and 400 medium-range RVV-AE missiles — was reported by the Indian government; India’s supply of these missiles has not been reported.

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3726399.html
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:27 am

    I wonder why india doesn't invest into the r-27AE which is a ARH version with 130km range. It is a missile better than any other actual russian missile but not produced.

    We have read a lot about the R-27AE ARH missile but has anyone actually seen it?

    It has often been suggested as simply a combination of the R-27 with the ARH seeker of the R-77, but if no one has paid for the development or integrated it into an aircraft design, perhaps the reason India didn't buy R-27AEs is because they only exist in mockup form and paper designs.

    Why spend money investing on an improve R-27AE when you can just buy R-77 instead, plus the new R-77M is just about to enter Russian service with even better range and likely upgraded electronics... so buy R-77s now, and newer missiles when available.

    I would think with its experience with Brahmos that a joint development with India and Russia to make new very long range scramjet powered AAMs would be a nobrainer too...
    Cyberspec
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    Post  Cyberspec Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:14 am

    Russia has proposed to India to re-engine all Su-30MKI's with the AL-41F1S engines
    https://aviation21.ru/rossiya-predlozhila-indii-zamenit-dvigateli-na-vsex-samolyotax-su-30mki/
    Pinto
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    Post  Pinto Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:55 pm

    Cyberspec wrote:Russia has proposed to India to re-engine all Su-30MKI's with the AL-41F1S engines
    https://aviation21.ru/rossiya-predlozhila-indii-zamenit-dvigateli-na-vsex-samolyotax-su-30mki/

    This deal must be signed as soon as possible, supply and change of engines of 272 su30mki and the 18 more su30mki india is going to sign in october 2019 might be with AL41 engines
    Pinto
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    Post  Pinto Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:56 pm

    The two nations have engineered a scheme under which they can make transactions that evade sanctions imposed by Washington

    With new agreements in the works and a way to skirt US sanctions, the Kremlin is hoping to grow its backlog of major arms deals with India, which currently stands at an impressive US$14 billion.

    New Delhi is expected to cement several arms deals with Moscow at the next session of the Indo-Russian intergovernmental commission on military industrial cooperation, to be held in October, AINonline reported.

    These would include a contract on 18 additional kits for the Sukhoi Su-30MKI heavyweight multirole fighter for assembly at HAL’s Nasik plant. This would bring the grand total of such aircraft procured since 1999 to 240.

    Additionally, the Indian Air Force would receive “over 20” used MiG-29 lightweight interceptors from the Russian Air and Space Force for their subsequent conversion into Mig-29UPG multirole aircraft, the report said.

    Apart from the fighters, New Delhi is seeking to procure about 1,000 air-to-air missiles. The local media has specifically reported on 300 R-73E and 400 RVV-AE (exportable R-77) weapons developed by the Vympel design bureau.

    Reports also emerged recently concerning the procurement of R-27s worth US$217 million. The most recent R-27 purchase was in 2013, when around 400 were bought from Ukraine, where a production line is located.

    Since then, Russia’s Tactical Missile Corporation (TRV) has mastered production of the R-27 and improved R-73, sometimes referred to as the R-74, at its own facilities.

    It is interesting to note that the decision to purchase Russian missiles comes after an earlier announcement that India would test MBDA missiles on the Su-30MKI. However, no request for permission to do this was filed with Moscow by India, the report said.

    New Delhi is also looking to set up local production of the Igla-S shoulder-launched anti-aircraft missile in a manner similar to the recently agreed deal for Kalashnikov assault rifles.

    This burst of new purchases in Russia is at least partially due to the fact that Moscow and New Delhi have recently worked out a new set of payment methods and procedures that enables arms deals between them within the conditions of the newly introduced US sanctions such as CAATSA.

    In July, Dmitri Shugayev, who heads FSVTS, Russia’s Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation, told journalists that the two engineered a scheme under which they can make transactions in a way that evades sanctions imposed by Washington, the report said.

    A mutually agreed set of payment methods and mechanisms was developed specifically for the S-400 contract, involving the national banking systems and special-purpose vehicles.

    Yet another major development in relations between the two nations has been the establishment of a joint after-sales support group under the umbrella of the Indo-Russian intergovernmental commission on military-industrial cooperation.

    “We agreed to expedite entering the interstate agreement on joint production of spare parts and expendables on Indian soil,” FSVTS deputy head Vladimir Drozhzhov told AINonline.

    https://www.asiatimes.com/2019/08/article/india-to-add-more-russian-multi-role-fighters/

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    Post  GarryB Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:52 am

    I would like to hear more details about that Kalashnikov production deal... are they only producing AK-203s, which are AKMs upgraded to AK-74M standard to AK-103, and then further upgraded to AK-12 level with improved kit mounting options and improved mechanisms?

    Or are they making AK-308 which is basically an AK12 in 7.62x51mm NATO calibre... or both?

    I would think both would make a lot of sense, with the 7.62x39mm round for close in use in urban areas, while in more open terrain they also have SiG model AR-15 clones in 5.56mm calibre, but as recent experience in deserts and mountains where targets can be seen at extended distances (ie 600m plus) at which range the 7.62x39mm and 5.56mm rounds are ineffectual, that a 7.62x51mm round would be rather useful...
    Pinto
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    Post  Pinto Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:01 pm

    GarryB wrote:I would like to hear more details about that Kalashnikov production deal... are they only producing AK-203s, which are AKMs upgraded to AK-74M standard to AK-103, and then further upgraded to AK-12 level with improved kit mounting options and improved mechanisms?

    Or are they making AK-308 which is basically an AK12 in 7.62x51mm NATO calibre... or both?

    I would think both would make a lot of sense, with the 7.62x39mm round for close in use in urban areas, while in more open terrain they also have SiG model AR-15 clones in 5.56mm calibre, but as recent experience in deserts and mountains where targets can be seen at extended distances (ie 600m plus) at which range the 7.62x39mm and 5.56mm rounds are ineffectual, that a 7.62x51mm round would be rather useful...

    As per reports it seems only AK203 only but you never know inside details of deal with Russia which mostly remain classified in details

    https://www.janes.com/article/87011/india-russia-inaugurate-manufacturing-plant-for-ak-203-assault-rifle

    Recent example being that India signed R27 deal but sources tells that many versions of long range and medium n short range have been signed. i have seen many comments saying why no longer versions were not procured but the truth lies classified and this happens in many deal with Russia

    another glaring example being indian signed 5 batteries of s400 and no further details but cost amounts to over 4 b $ though China got at different rates
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    Post  George1 Sun Sep 15, 2019 2:46 pm

    Contract for the modernization of Indian Project 15 destroyers

    As the Government of India reported on September 12, 2019, the Indian Ministry of Defense signed a contract with the Russian joint-stock company Rosoboronexport for the modernization of the Kashmir (Shtil) anti-aircraft missile systems and the Fregat-MAE radar systems on three Project 15 Indian destroyers (type Delhi). The work will be carried out in India, with the involvement of the Indian industry as a supplier of a number of components.

    Recall that destroyers of the Indian project 15 were designed in the 1980s with the leading role of the Northern Design Bureau (St. Petersburg) and are equipped almost entirely with weapons and equipment made in Russia. The lead destroyer of Project 15 D 61 Delhi was laid down at the Indian shipyard Mazagon Dock Limited (MDL) in Mumbai in December 1992 and delivered to the Indian Navy in 1997, and two other ships (D 60 Mysore and D 62 Mumbai) were introduced in operation 1999 and 2001.

    It can be assumed that the modernization of the Kashmir (Shtil) air defense system on destroyers of this type will include the transition to 9M317E series anti-aircraft guided missiles.

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3773629.html
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    Post  GarryB Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:04 am

    another glaring example being indian signed 5 batteries of s400 and no further details but cost amounts to over 4 b $ though China got at different rates

    I rather suspect if India is paying more for their S-400s it is because China is getting and paying for the bare minimum deal, and the Indians are perhaps buying all the extras and perhaps the production rights to perhaps produce the missiles themselves... or mostly anyway.
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    Post  Pinto Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:13 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    another glaring example being indian signed 5 batteries of s400 and no further details but cost amounts to over 4 b $ though China got at different rates

    I rather suspect if India is paying more for their S-400s it is because China is getting and paying for the bare minimum deal, and the Indians are perhaps buying all the extras and perhaps the production rights to perhaps produce the missiles themselves... or mostly anyway.

    haha you are spot on i got this news link today

    although details about any deal by Russia-India is hard to get in media though we discuss about what is known probably like take the case of despite feeling absence of AMRAAM in feb air conflict India orders many missiles from Russia worth 300 million $ but again no details about range ot which longest range indian ordered on emergency basis ?

    Moscow, New Delhi in talks over S-400 missiles production in India: Rostec CEO

    MOSCOW: Moscow is holding talks with New Delhi on starting the production of S-400 Air Defense Systems in India, said Sergey Chemezov, CEO of Russia`s Rostec state corporation on Sunday. "Yes, we are discussing the localization [of S-400 production] with India as well," Chemezov told the RBK broadcaster, adding that India has already acquired the license for the production of a lot of technology, such as the Su-30 fighter jet and the T-90 tank, reported Sputnik.

    "We have developed the BrahMos missiles together with them [India], on their territory, together with their scientists," Chemezov pointed out.Last month, External Affairs Minister S Jaishankar was in Moscow to meet his Russian counterpart Sergey Lavrov to discuss ways to further advance bilateral cooperation.

    New Delhi had signed a USD 5.43 billion deal with Russia for the purchase of five S-400s during the 19th India-Russia Annual Bilateral Summit in New Delhi on October 5, 2018, last year, which Washington had indicated may trigger Countering America`s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CAATSA) sanctions.

    Russian Deputy Prime Minister Yuri Borisov on last week had said S-400 air defence missile systems will be delivered to India in strict accordance with the schedule."The advance payment has been received and everything will be delivered in strict accordance with the schedule, within about 18-19 months," Borisov told state-owned broadcaster Rossiya-1.

    https://zeenews.india.com/india/moscow-new-delhi-in-talks-over-s-400-missiles-production-in-india-rostec-ceo-2234625.html
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    Post  GarryB Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:34 am

    Regarding Air to Air missiles, they have recently shown the RVV-BD export version of the R-37M on MiG-35s and Su-35s, so there should be no reason why they wouldn't be able to adapt the Su-30MKI to use it too... or they could look at new model R-77s...
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    Post  Pinto Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:23 am

    GarryB wrote:Regarding Air to Air missiles, they have recently shown the RVV-BD export version of the R-37M on MiG-35s and Su-35s, so there should be no reason why they wouldn't be able to adapt the Su-30MKI to use it too... or they could look at new model R-77s...

    Its means india has acquired 120 km + rage air to air missile from russia in this order to be use don sukhois ?
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    Post  Isos Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:11 pm

    Pinto wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Regarding Air to Air missiles, they have recently shown the RVV-BD export version of the R-37M on MiG-35s and Su-35s, so there should be no reason why they wouldn't be able to adapt the Su-30MKI to use it too... or they could look at new model R-77s...

    Its means india has acquired 120 km + rage air to air missile from russia in this order to be use on sukhois ?

    Indian sukhois can only carry r27E and r-77. If they want the the r-77-1 or r-37 they need software upgrades.

    For israeli or western missile, they woukd need bugger changes as the radar wasn't made to control foreign missiles.

    If they are smart they will wait the r-77ME with 200km range and not buy neither r-77 nnor r77-1.
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    Post  Pinto Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:52 pm

    Isos wrote:
    Pinto wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Regarding Air to Air missiles, they have recently shown the RVV-BD export version of the R-37M on MiG-35s and Su-35s, so there should be no reason why they wouldn't be able to adapt the Su-30MKI to use it too... or they could look at new model R-77s...

    Its means india has acquired 120 km + rage air to air missile from russia in this order to be use on sukhois ?

    Indian sukhois can only carry r27E and r-77. If they want the the r-77-1 or r-37 they need software upgrades.

    For israeli or western missile, they woukd need bugger changes as the radar wasn't made to control foreign missiles.

    If they are smart they will wait the r-77ME with 200km range and not buy neither r-77 nnor r77-1.


    So it means none of the recently ordered missiles by India from Russia has range of 150 km or so ?


    But there is a talk of india got R37M missiles as well, is it confirmed ?

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    Post  Pinto Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:00 pm

    GarryB wrote:Regarding Air to Air missiles, they have recently shown the RVV-BD export version of the R-37M on MiG-35s and Su-35s, so there should be no reason why they wouldn't be able to adapt the Su-30MKI to use it too... or they could look at new model R-77s...


    India and Russia also have Novator KS-172 with a long range ?
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    Post  Isos Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:51 pm

    So it means none of the recently ordered missiles by India from Russia has range of 150 km or so ?

    No.

    India and Russia also have Novator KS-172 with a long range ?

    It is/was a project. It is not in active service and no one really knows how far they went in this project.

    Russia stoped it for r37M. India wanted to continue the project for its su-30MKI.
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    Post  Pinto Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:14 pm

    Isos wrote:
    So it means none of the recently ordered missiles by India from Russia has range of 150 km or so ?

    No.

    India and Russia also have Novator KS-172 with a long range ?

    It is/was a project. It is not in active service and no one really knows how far they went in this project.

    Russia stoped it for r37M. India wanted to continue the project for its su-30MKI.

    hmm but many sites including wike shows that india and russia have these missiles
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    Post  GarryB Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:32 am

    Indian sukhois can only carry r27E and r-77. If they want the the r-77-1 or r-37 they need software upgrades.

    That is like telling me I can't play World of Tanks on my computer because I haven't downloaded it and installed it on my computer.

    For israeli or western missile, they woukd need bugger changes as the radar wasn't made to control foreign missiles.

    If they are smart they will wait the r-77ME with 200km range and not buy neither r-77 nnor r77-1.

    If they were buying Su-57s they would likely be getting the new missiles as part of the package, but if they want range then the easiest current way for them to get that is a combination of buying the R-77-1 which is already in production and RVV-BD which should already also be ready for production and export... being a missile for export... and then in 4-5 years time or before when they are ready they can look at licence production of the R-77ME.

    So it means none of the recently ordered missiles by India from Russia has range of 150 km or so ?

    Depends on what they ordered specifically, but probably not. They talk about R-27E missiles with ranges of 160km but I doubt they reach more than 100km to be honest.

    But there is a talk of india got R37M missiles as well, is it confirmed ?

    That would be the RVV-BD which is a 200km range missile for export...

    India and Russia also have Novator KS-172 with a long range ?

    There was talk but no actual evidence of anything that was operational.

    AFAIK it lost the competition to arm the MiG-31M, which was won by the R-37M... which we have seen advertised and on aircraft.

    hmm but many sites including wike shows that india and russia have these missiles

    I have seen mockups, but never an operational missile on anything.
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    Post  Pinto Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:58 pm

    hmm so by above comments from Garry and Isos its clear that india did get many missiles for emergency storks in recent times but its not clear what exactly range they are and which version they are
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    Post  GarryB Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:41 pm

    Don't think the missile with the longest range wins.

    Long range is a useful feature, but you still need to ID the target... in the Ukraine they were doing an air defence exercise and launched off an S-200, an SA-5 Gammon, which has a particularly long range... it ended up getting a lock on a civilian airliner outside the exercise area and shooting it down...

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    Post  Pinto Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:33 am

    GarryB wrote:Don't think the missile with the longest range wins.

    Long range is a useful feature, but you still need to ID the target... in the Ukraine they were doing an air defence exercise and launched off an S-200, an SA-5 Gammon, which has a particularly long range... it ended up getting a lock on a civilian airliner outside the exercise area and shooting it down...


    lol damn thats scary
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    Post  GarryB Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:22 am

    In the 1980s BVR was considered a total waste of time and money... Sparrows had turned out ineffective in Vietnam... but then they were using them at short range against manouvering fighters... it was generally accepted that BVR missiles were for shooting down bombers and cruise missiles and other simple targets at long range, and that the rest of air combat would be with short range missiles and guns.

    Note before Vietnam the US had decided that their Sparrows were good enough that their backstop became their Sidewinders so they didn't need guns on fighter planes any more. Ironically the Phantom would have been an excellent aircraft for the North Vietnamese for shooting down B-52s... WVR missiles had rather smaller HE payloads which often struggled doing enough mortal damage to a big aircraft to bring it down. Kills of B-52s would have been much higher if the Soviets and Vietnamese had changed the proximity settings for their SA-2s so they exploded closer to the targets... but everyone learned something...

    Modern evidence seems to suggest that if the enemy aircraft is basic and doesn't have much of a self defence electronics set up, a sneaky shot from a BVR can get a kill, but most of the time most long range AAMs will struggle against an aware and well equipped enemy.
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    Post  Isos Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:30 am

    The thing is that now the have track while scan and ARH missiles. The targeted plane will know only in the last few seconds that a missile is coming on him.

    Evasive action can be made but it reduces the speed of the aircraft, turns the belly (bigger rcs) towards the missile's seeker and the jammers stop facing the front where they are most of the time and lose of altitude making its own missile shorter range.

    If there is a second missile behind the first one, he will get the kill.

    And even if not, the targeted plane will go defensive (evasive actions) lose speed and altitude making it an easier target for the second volley MRAAM which have the advantage of speed and altitude over the targeted fighter's missiles or of short range IR missiles which will also have longer range.

    If those one still miss, the attacking aircraft will have the speed and energy to fire with its guns first.

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    Post  George1 Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:37 am

    India fully pays for frigates under construction for its Navy at Russian shipyard

    KALININGRAD, September 24. /TASS/. India has fully paid for the Project 11356 missile frigates, which Russia’s Yantar Shipyard in the Kaliningrad Region is building for the Indian Navy, President of the United Shipbuilding Corporation Alexei Rakhmanov told reporters on Tuesday.

    https://tass.com/defense/1079625

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