Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Russia - USA Relations

    JohninMK
    JohninMK

    Posts : 8274
    Points : 8355
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    Russia - USA Relations - Page 8 Empty Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  JohninMK Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:34 pm

    ATLASCUB wrote:It's on baby!

    The Russian Consulate in San Francisco, as well as two annex buildings in Washington and New York, will have to close by September 2, the US State Department announced in response to Moscow ordering the US to reduce its diplomatic personnel in Russia.

    https://www.rt.com/news/401613-russian-consulate-us-closure/

    Only gonna get worse for the foreseeable future....specially when ISIS folds.....

    Ukraine still in the cards as well...... hopefully Gorby is watching...soon from hell.
    Looks the people at those sites are either going to have to be fired, go home or be squeezed into the Embassy in DC. Either way it looks like the numbers are going down which will mean a further number reduction of US people in Moscow.

    Definite poison pill from Obama.

    EDIT Bit more from the US

    Department of State‏@StateDept 1h1 hour ago

    In spirit of parity, we require #Russia to close its consulate in SF, chancery annex in DC, and consular annex in NYC by Sep. 2.

    Russia - USA Relations - Page 8 DIkonMSXcAE0o1G
    avatar
    ATLASCUB

    Posts : 640
    Points : 648
    Join date : 2017-02-13

    Russia - USA Relations - Page 8 Empty Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  ATLASCUB Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:29 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    ATLASCUB wrote:It's on baby!

    The Russian Consulate in San Francisco, as well as two annex buildings in Washington and New York, will have to close by September 2, the US State Department announced in response to Moscow ordering the US to reduce its diplomatic personnel in Russia.

    https://www.rt.com/news/401613-russian-consulate-us-closure/

    Only gonna get worse for the foreseeable future....specially when ISIS folds.....

    Ukraine still in the cards as well...... hopefully Gorby is watching...soon from hell.
    Looks the people at those sites are either going to have to be fired, go home or be squeezed into the Embassy in DC. Either way it looks like the numbers are going down which will mean a further number reduction of US people in Moscow.

    Definite poison pill from Obama.

    Figure State Dept/CIA have made the assessment that their efforts inside Russia to stir the pot via covert ops will be rather unfruitful given the political conditions in Russia and Putin's stronghold. So, if you come to that conclusion and you look at the political situation inside the U.S (which is chaotic), then you see that reducing Russian ops (by personal cut) is a net benefit for now. Among many other considerations that I'm sure they took of course.
    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 10182
    Points : 10256
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Russia - USA Relations - Page 8 Empty Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  PapaDragon Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:16 pm

    JohninMK wrote:..........
    Looks the people at those sites are either going to have to be fired, go home or be squeezed into the Embassy in DC. Either way it looks like the numbers are going down which will mean a further number reduction of US people in Moscow.
    ................

    So which consulate do you think is getting the hatchet next?

    My bet is one in St. Petersburg...
    JohninMK
    JohninMK

    Posts : 8274
    Points : 8355
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    Russia - USA Relations - Page 8 Empty Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  JohninMK Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:36 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:..........
    Looks the people at those sites are either going to have to be fired, go home or be squeezed into the Embassy in DC. Either way it looks like the numbers are going down which will mean a further number reduction of US people in Moscow.
    ................

    So which consulate do you think is getting the hatchet next?

    My bet is one in St. Petersburg...
    The US says that there is still 3 in the US so maybe they will now leave the premises alone. Maybe level the numbers again if Russians have to leave the US..
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 27919
    Points : 28447
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Russia - USA Relations - Page 8 Empty Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  GarryB Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:24 am

    I'd say move the Russian diplomats to Cuba and improve relations with that country... perhaps a naval base and an airfield there would be useful...

    And of course give North Korea a free hand to do what they want and veto anything the US tries against them.

    Let them know that Russia can actually act against US wishes rather than just in its own interests... there is an enormous difference.
    avatar
    ATLASCUB

    Posts : 640
    Points : 648
    Join date : 2017-02-13

    Russia - USA Relations - Page 8 Empty Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  ATLASCUB Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:37 pm

    GarryB wrote:I'd say move the Russian diplomats to Cuba and improve relations with that country... perhaps a naval base and an airfield there would be useful...

    And of course give North Korea a free hand to do what they want and veto anything the US tries against them.

    Let them know that Russia can actually act against US wishes rather than just in its own interests... there is an enormous difference.

    The Chinese maybe. Cuba will be asking a lot in aid for those two bases - A LOT. They aren't stupid and got burned with Gorby already. Subsidizing half of Cuba's oil consumption might get them to bite though, IF Venezuela folds...free oil tankers.

    As for Korea, Russia is letting China handle the crisis, offering input and obviously keeping a close eye on it. A goodwill gesture of sorts. Totally against it, as I'm sure many in Russians power circles were; BUT I can see the rationale. Let China get its feet wet, become the target, etc etc...

    If there is consulate parity now...best course of action is to expel American diplomats, IF the San Francisco closure results in staff cuts. Also, strict deadlines...4 days at most...not weeks.

    Kinda interesting that this news haven't gotten wide circulation in U.S mainstream media...almost a blackout. The internal political situation and Harvey is drowning everything.
    avatar
    Svyatoslavich

    Posts : 399
    Points : 400
    Join date : 2015-04-22
    Location : Buenos Aires

    Russia - USA Relations - Page 8 Empty Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  Svyatoslavich Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:25 am

    ATLASCUB wrote:
    Kinda interesting that this news haven't gotten wide circulation in U.S mainstream media...almost a blackout. The internal political situation and Harvey is drowning everything.
    Because for the media, Trump is a Russian agent, and will always be, no matter what he does. I just don't understand Trump's rationale: he is abandoning everyone who can support them, hoping that the deep state (and everything it controls, like the media) will stop opposing him. Just won't work, the deep state and globalists want him out of the White House because they never wanted him there in the first place, and considering that Trump is dumping  his allies and those who could provide him real support (Flynn, Bannon, Putin), I am almost sure he won't end his term.
    avatar
    ATLASCUB

    Posts : 640
    Points : 648
    Join date : 2017-02-13

    Russia - USA Relations - Page 8 Empty Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  ATLASCUB Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:59 am

    Svyatoslavich wrote:
    ATLASCUB wrote:
    Kinda interesting that this news haven't gotten wide circulation in U.S mainstream media...almost a blackout. The internal political situation and Harvey is drowning everything.
    Because for the media, Trump is a Russian agent, and will always be, no matter what he does. I just don't understand Trump's rationale: he is abandoning everyone who can support them, hoping that the deep state (and everything it controls, like the media) will stop opposing him. Just won't work, the deep state and globalists want him out of the White House because they never wanted him there in the first place, and considering that Trump is dumping  his allies and those who could provide him real support (Flynn, Bannon, Putin), I am almost sure he won't end his term.

    Don't try to understand Trump's "motives" - it's just a black alley. The only thing positive, absent his reformative agenda (which would of been by-in large positive - both foreign policy but also domestic), is to appreciate the fixtures he has exposed and the chaos he has inflicted on the internal political situation in the U.S - also known as a weakening. That's the only thing at this point to positively take way - also, he's not a charming liar that can promote liberalism like any of those who ran against him. I think this is one of the many reasons Putin/Xi are holding rhetoric barbs back (little gain in engaging Trump in a way that may weaken him publicly thus aid his internal enemies)... not for the need of excuses cause the wars are on, both on China and Russia in practically all fronts imaginable.

    The bolded reasoning to an extent is part of it ...actually they seem to have found the proper spin by using chimney smoke as the selling point.
    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 10182
    Points : 10256
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Russia - USA Relations - Page 8 Empty Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  PapaDragon Sat Sep 02, 2017 1:11 pm

    Svyatoslavich wrote:
    ATLASCUB wrote:
    Kinda interesting that this news haven't gotten wide circulation in U.S mainstream media...almost a blackout. The internal political situation and Harvey is drowning everything.
    Because for the media, Trump is a Russian agent, and will always be, no matter what he does. I just don't understand Trump's rationale: he is abandoning everyone who can support them, hoping that the deep state (and everything it controls, like the media) will stop opposing him. Just won't work, the deep state and globalists want him out of the White House because they never wanted him there in the first place, and considering that Trump is dumping  his allies and those who could provide him real support (Flynn, Bannon, Putin), I am almost sure he won't end his term.


    Correct on all counts but always remember: still better than Hilary
    JohninMK
    JohninMK

    Posts : 8274
    Points : 8355
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    Russia - USA Relations - Page 8 Empty Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  JohninMK Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:49 pm

    This is slowly getting nastier so I thought you might be interested in a bit of the Law

    Embassy Territory

    The best place to find answers is with the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations 1961.

    Within this convention, Articles 21-25 have to do with embassies, though more specifically diplomatic missions as a whole.

    Article 21
    1. The receiving State shall either facilitate the acquisition on its territory, in accordance with its laws, by the sending State of premises necessary for its mission or assist the latter in obtaining accommodation in some other way.
    2. It shall also, where necessary, assist missions in obtaining suitable accommodation for their members.

    Article 22
    1. The premises of the mission shall be inviolable. The agents of the receiving State may not enter them, except with the consent of the head of the mission.

    2. The receiving State is under a special duty to take all appropriate steps to protect the premises of the mission against any intrusion or damage and to prevent any disturbance of the peace of the mission or impairment of its dignity.

    3. The premises of the mission, their furnishings and other property thereon and the means of transport of the mission shall be immune from search, requisition, attachment or execution.

    Article 23
    1. The sending State and the head of the mission shall be exempt from all national, regional or municipal dues and taxes in respect of the premises of the mission, whether owned or leased, other than such as represent payment for specific services rendered.

    2. The exemption from taxation referred to in this article shall not apply to such dues and taxes payable under the law of the receiving State by persons contracting with the sending State or the head of the mission.

    Article 24
    The archives and documents of the mission shall be inviolable at any time and wherever they may be.

    Article 25

    The receiving State shall accord full facilities for the performance of the functions of the mission.

    Above you will notice I bolded a few phrases, all in Article 22, which have to do with mission sovereignty. Let’s break it down:

    1. The premises of a mission shall be inviolable

    Nobody can enter the mission without permission- this includes the host country

    2. The receiving State is under a special duty to take all appropriate steps to protect the premises of the mission against any intrusion or damage and to prevent any disturbance of the peace of the mission or impairment of its dignity.




    If you visit an Embassy, especially in more dangerous parts of the world, you will see the exterior of the mission being guarded by local nationals. The inside might have their own soldiers, but the outside will either be local police or military.
    miketheterrible
    miketheterrible

    Posts : 5468
    Points : 5442
    Join date : 2016-11-06

    Russia - USA Relations - Page 8 Empty Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  miketheterrible Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:31 pm

    Yeah, US breaking Vienna protocol by searching the SF mission. I think Russia needs to do the same to the US. US doesn't realize they put themselves into a tough spot now.
    franco
    franco

    Posts : 3823
    Points : 3853
    Join date : 2010-08-18

    Russia - USA Relations - Page 8 Empty Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  franco Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:05 pm

    You are forgetting that Americans are an exceptional people living in an exceptional nation so the laws of mere mortals do not apply. Suspect
    JohninMK
    JohninMK

    Posts : 8274
    Points : 8355
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    Russia - USA Relations - Page 8 Empty Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  JohninMK Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:15 pm

    franco wrote:You are forgetting that Americans are an exceptional people living in an exceptional nation so the laws of mere mortals do not apply.  Suspect
    Being truly exceptional I wonder if it ever crossed their minds that the Russians may search their protected by Law compounds now locked up in Russia so might have left a few bits and bobs behind?

    Clearly the Russians would not overtly break the Law, that's not Putin's style, but if they saw a movement or a wisp of smoke or anything suspicious they would have to, under their duty of care obligations, investigate.
    miketheterrible
    miketheterrible

    Posts : 5468
    Points : 5442
    Join date : 2016-11-06

    Russia - USA Relations - Page 8 Empty Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  miketheterrible Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:28 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    franco wrote:You are forgetting that Americans are an exceptional people living in an exceptional nation so the laws of mere mortals do not apply.  Suspect
    Being truly exceptional I wonder if it ever crossed their minds that the Russians may search their protected by Law compounds now locked up in Russia so might have left a few bits and bobs behind?

    Clearly the Russians would not overtly break the Law, that's not Putin's style, but if they saw a movement or a wisp of smoke or anything suspicious they would have to, under their duty of care obligations, investigate.

    http://www.mid.ru/ru/foreign_policy/news/-/asset_publisher/cKNonkJE02Bw/content/id/2851761

    Judging by this, they may do exactly the same thing back, and US has itself to blame.
    starman
    starman

    Posts : 572
    Points : 570
    Join date : 2016-08-10

    Russia - USA Relations - Page 8 Empty Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  starman Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:34 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    And of course give North Korea a free hand to do what they want and veto anything the US tries against them.

    Same with Iran and Assad too. Smile
    JohninMK
    JohninMK

    Posts : 8274
    Points : 8355
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    Russia - USA Relations - Page 8 Empty Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  JohninMK Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:48 pm

    Well its not over yet. Another 155 to kick out?

    Russian President Vladimir Putin told reporters after his visit to China that he has every right to cut the number of US diplomats in Russia but will do take this option now.

    Putin explained that both Moscow and Washington agreed to have an equal number of diplomats in their respective country's, which was not the case as the US had far more diplomats in Russia.

    "Strictly speaking, if we talk about full parity, there should not be 455 US diplomats in Moscow but rather minus 155. So, we reserve the right to make a decision also on the number of US diplomats, but we won’t do this now. We’ll keep an eye on how the situation develops further," the president stressed.

    Putin said AMerica had the right to cut back on Russian diplomatic staff "but what’s different here is that this was apparently done in an uncivilized manner, and this doesn’t put our American partners in a good light."

    "It is difficult to hold dialogue with those people who mix up Austria with Australia. There’s nothing that can be done about this now, that’s apparently the level of political culture of a certain part of the American establishment. The American people are really a great nation if they put up with such a large number of people who have such a low level of political culture," Putin said.

    "As for the buildings and facilities (of the Russian diplomatic mission in the US), this is really an unprecedented incident," Putin said. "The American side stripped Russia of the right to use our property. This is a clear violation of Russia’s property rights. That’s why, to begin with, I will instruct the Russian Foreign Ministry to take legal action. Let’s see how the much-lauded American judicial system works."


    http://www.fort-russ.com/2017/09/putin-american-political-culture-cannot.html
    Godric
    Godric

    Posts : 573
    Points : 593
    Join date : 2015-04-30
    Location : Alba (Scotland)

    Russia - USA Relations - Page 8 Empty US Senate threaten to hit Russia over S-400 sales

    Post  Godric Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:51 am



    looks very much like the yanks are sh!ting their breeches basically saying every country that buys the S-400 reduces itself of being attacked by Murica

    the arrogance of America is breath taking ... who do they think they are to tell Russia who they can sell weapons to, Russia should tell America to mind their own business

    Code:
    https://sputniknews.com/us/201803171062621903-usa-russia-s400-foreign-nation/




    also posted in the s-400 thread (exports section)
    avatar
    Svyatoslavich

    Posts : 399
    Points : 400
    Join date : 2015-04-22
    Location : Buenos Aires

    Russia - USA Relations - Page 8 Empty Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  Svyatoslavich Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:07 pm

    Godric wrote:

    looks very much like the yanks are sh!ting their breeches basically saying every country that buys the S-400 reduces itself of being attacked by Murica

    the arrogance of America is breath taking ... who do they think they are to tell Russia who they can sell weapons to, Russia should tell America to mind their own business

    Code:
    https://sputniknews.com/us/201803171062621903-usa-russia-s400-foreign-nation/




    also posted in the s-400 thread (exports section)
    Would love to see Turkey and the US go to war against each other!
    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 10182
    Points : 10256
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Russia - USA Relations - Page 8 Empty Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  PapaDragon Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:31 pm


    Well I ain't no expert or nothing but I could swear that pundits assured us that S-400 is just repacked Soviet junk and that mighty F-35 (price TBD) will easily defeat it on moment's notice?

    So what's all this then? Smile
    kvs
    kvs

    Posts : 8728
    Points : 8871
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    Russia - USA Relations - Page 8 Empty Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  kvs Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:28 pm

    Russia needs to use its S-400 in Syria to punish Uncle Scumbag and his minions for aiding the terrorists. This means zero tolerance
    for the fake chemical weapons attacks staged by the White Helmet terrorists.
    miketheterrible
    miketheterrible

    Posts : 5468
    Points : 5442
    Join date : 2016-11-06

    Russia - USA Relations - Page 8 Empty Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  miketheterrible Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:33 pm

    They first threatened other countries about purchasing Russian weapons, including Turkey. That didn't work. Everyone more or less (well, Qatar is only nation that folded) told the US to go to hell. Now they are trying to threaten Russia itself of sanctions if it sells S-400's. I think these people in Senate have zero idea what they are doing. They already sanctioned Almaz Antey and everyone else in Russia, this will have zero effect overall.

    Have to say, the intelligence of Americans are dropping real fast.
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 27919
    Points : 28447
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Russia - USA Relations - Page 8 Empty Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  GarryB Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:10 am

    Great, that means Russia can impose sanctions on the US for all the advanced weapons it is selling to countries too...

    Pretty soon there will be no trade relations between Russia and the west... and this will greatly benefit Russia more than it will benefit the west.

    Just like the Mistral deal... trading with Russia offers shortcuts to getting where they want, but the western perception they couldn't develop their own Mistrals given time and money is absurd... the west has a choice... cooperate and stop being such pretentious ass holes, and hope that Russia learns to befriend the west, so in the future they can at least cooperate on things where there is a mutual interest, or turn your back on them and punish them for everything they do no matter whether it is something the west has already done or not and push them away... right now it is the latter, which is not preventing Russia from progressing... just stalling and making them do it on their own.... they will still become more powerful, but have nothing to thank the west for in terms of assistance or friendship.

    More than anything else they are creating a rival that does not give a shit about their interests because the west is incapable of thinking about the interests of others.

    Modelling Russia in their own image... hahahahahaha. No, Russia does not have an agenda to push anymore and are free to make trade deals with anyone and everyone... only the western sheep will not want such ties... sadly New Zealand will jump to the aide of the motherland, despite the motherland cutting the cord and isolating us when they joined the EU.

    Perhaps in 50 years time when they have actually left the EU they might focus a little more on the british commonwealth... if scotland get independence do they get a quarter?
    Godric
    Godric

    Posts : 573
    Points : 593
    Join date : 2015-04-30
    Location : Alba (Scotland)

    Russia - USA Relations - Page 8 Empty Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  Godric Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:42 pm

    I only saw the story in foreign sites after i posted the article ... that said the US has threatened to hit countries that have bought Russian made military hardware with fines or sanctions that has past the congress and is now law, this has been basically an attempt by the USA to force countries to buy their weapons from America ... i basically call it bullying for that is what America has become a school yard bully in an attempt to hold on to it's power, the British Empire tried to do the exact same thing at the start of the 20th century which eventually lead to the start of World War 1
    miketheterrible
    miketheterrible

    Posts : 5468
    Points : 5442
    Join date : 2016-11-06

    Russia - USA Relations - Page 8 Empty Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  miketheterrible Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:46 pm

    Godric wrote:I only saw the story in foreign sites after i posted the article ... that said the US has threatened to hit countries that have bought Russian made military hardware with fines or sanctions that has past the congress and is now law, this has been basically an attempt by the USA to force countries to buy their weapons from America ... i basically call it bullying for that is what America has become a school yard bully in an attempt to hold on to it's power, the British Empire tried to do the exact same thing at the start of the 20th century which eventually lead to the start of World War 1

    US bullying is getting out of hand, and it's actually pissing people off more so than actually accomplishing anything.

    Turkey said for them to go to hell as is. And Myanmar also told the US we're to go after US complained to Russia about selling weapons to an "evil" aggressive country like Myanmar.

    Now Indians seem to be pissed from what I read now that US is taking them to the WTO for unfair business practices and subsidies. This came not long after India dropped the plane procurement of single jet engine aircrafts of American made.
    avatar
    Vann7

    Posts : 4751
    Points : 4853
    Join date : 2012-05-16

    Russia - USA Relations - Page 8 Empty Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  Vann7 Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:37 am

    miketheterrible wrote:


    Now Indians seem to be pissed from what I read now that US is taking them to the WTO for unfair business practices and subsidies.  This came not long after India dropped the plane procurement of single jet engine aircrafts of American made.


    NO empires can last for long pissing every other nation ,including its own allies and disrespecting them. basically US will isolate themselves from the World. and it will only Boost CHINA alternative banking system and Crytocurrencies to bypass American
    Banking system. This remember me the times Soviets blocked people from crossing the border to wertern germany.. to the point of shooting them..  Europe is also annoyed and by American exceptionalism ,which is Europe is not a lot different with Russia.. but in any case.. Europe will be realizing by now ,that Americans are out of control..
    and very dangerous nation that could provoke a world war ,at any moment ,and that they will have to start thinking
    in preparations for jumping American ship and moving to the Russia -CHINA orbit and try to create something different..

    But such a new system will not happen until an alternative system is running already. BRICS is only a small step ,
    but is far from what is need.. Russia and China needs to be more ambitious in their competition to the American system..as soon they create a new system , Europeans will start abandoning the ship and the US dollar.

    Sponsored content

    Russia - USA Relations - Page 8 Empty Re: Russia - USA Relations

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Fri Feb 26, 2021 8:28 pm