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    Russian Auto Industry

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    Gazputin


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    Russian Auto Industry - Page 24 Empty Moscow electric bus stats

    Post  Gazputin Fri Apr 29, 2022 4:46 pm

    they really do have 1000 electric buses in service - see link

    and still building them ... seems the ZF electric drives they are using are still coming in or more likely they were localised
    (I'm sure Rosatom could clone them pretty quickly ... if need be ... those guys can do anything )

    https://transphoto.org/show.php?t=9&cid=1


    Russia has no problems building buses or trams ..... or trucks (soon with less electronics)

    cars are the tricky subject

    but it seems those manufacturers who are "staying" are selling their stake in the local operation to local mgmnt companies
    to reduce risk - guess that means they will be paid license/franchise fees instead ?

    not quite sure what the detail is
    and with cute "buy back in clauses" in 5-6 years time built in - re Renault

    actually for all the western car companies frantically looking for capital to get electric cars into production
    it is a bit of a bonus for them ..... hard to resist ... a nice blob of capital just at the right time







    GarryB
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    Russian Auto Industry - Page 24 Empty Re: Russian Auto Industry

    Post  GarryB Sat Apr 30, 2022 4:47 am

    Part of the issue with cars is fashion and name brands... some people have real experience of certain car makers products but so many tens of thousands are made there are bound to be good ones and bad ones of every type and each person might buy 10 or perhaps 20 at most in their life time.

    There are a variety of owners and a variety of cars and car makers and each car maker has a fashion rating and a quality rating that can't really be changed by advertising.

    Lada is a dirty word in some places just based on principle simply because it is a Soviet and Russian car, and there are former owners who agree with this sentiment... their parents bought one beause it was cheap and easy to fix and they inherited it when their parents could afford a better car... depending on how life went for them and millions of variables the parents and the children might love that Lada or they might hate it and never want one again.

    Of course people who lack money and want to be able to fix the small things themselves will appreciate the simplicity of the Lada... people who don't will find they are always needing to pay out on small problems they could have sorted themselves but don't want to.

    Of course over time opinions of cars made from different countries change... for a long time here in New Zealand japanese cars were considered terrible and they were... they tended to be knockoffs of european cars which we would never admit at the time were rubbish too... buy a new car and drive 20,000km and then have all sorts of things needing to be done with the engines... new spark plugs, pistons rebored, all sorts of work... then came the 1980s and the new Japanese cars started to come... the quality was much much better.... I remember going from a Ford Cortina to a Toyota Corona and they were as different as night and day... apart from going from a manual four speed to an automatic, the Toyotas headlights were as amazing as the Cortinas headlights were bloody terrible... most Cortinas had four headlights and often had extra sports headlights added too and when you turned them on often it wasn't obvious they were on... weak yellow spots quivering in the dark... often not pointing at the road ahead... The Toyotas had hallogen lights that turned night into day in comparison.

    The Toyota kept going for about 30 years and was still going when I got rid of it, the Cortina was dying not long after I got it and needed all sorts of work... one time the gearstick came out in my hand and I had to push it in and hold it all the way home in second gear because I couldn't find any other gear...

    I don't hate the Cortina but I would never buy a new one or an old one...

    If you had a brand new Toyota I would buy it, I have one now... Japanese cars are excellent and cheap... but my experience with cars is very very limited.

    And that is part of the problem... for Russia selling in the west a Lada will always only appeal to a certain group of buyers and if they are not simple and easy to fix that existing group of buyers are not likely to like it or want it.

    The niche is low priced cars because there are always people who dont want to spend a lot or can't spend a lot and need transport and in a sense a peoples car, who don't care about fashion or looks or brand names and just want a cheap car... perhaps with a good safety rating for their kids, or something they can commute with.

    Most cars these days look like SUVs and are huge, which used to scare lots of women drivers, but now with reversing cameras they seem to prefer them.

    Changing reputation is so hard I would say keep Lada and make the stereotype Lada vehicle... cheap and simple to fix and operate with most normal things as extras to keep the price low, and have add on packages available to upgrade if there are things you don't want to do without. Things like electric windows used to be something special, now all cars are fitted with them... they are great till they fail, so they would be an optional extra until they became reliable enough to be standard.

    Regarding GPS and reversing camera... perhaps the base model has a mount you put your cell phone on that both charges it and uses it for navigation and reversing camera, with upgrades including different screen options... stuff like that.

    Now with this new brand they can make a range of vehicles from sports and recreation type vehicles to business like vehicles and shopping trolley vehicles for old people and single people.
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    Russian Auto Industry - Page 24 Empty Re: Russian Auto Industry

    Post  Regular Sat Apr 30, 2022 7:10 am

    GarryB wrote:
    If you had a brand new Toyota I would buy it, I have one now... Japanese cars are excellent and cheap... but my experience with cars is very very limited.

    I am also Toyota/Lexus owner. Simple, dependable, doesn't stand out. That's all I need. But I still don't think that all Japanese cars are cheap or excellent. Nissan and Mitsubishi are quite poorly built and are garage queens.

    I drove new Russian cars (rental, used and abused) and can't say much bad or good about them, just Russian Dacia, Kia I guess? The quality of Lada's is much higher than it was before and thanks to Lada using foreign components as all vehicles do... US/European/Japanese... easier to fix these cars too. Good fleet vehicles, very limited model choice, 0 brand loyalty as mentioned, but very popular fleet vehicles.

    Talking about cars, Russian market is massive. It's just a time when production will start again, Toyota themselves are retaining all the staff and calling suspension of production in Russia as (component shortage issue) Just need that political clamp to loosen up again.
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    Gazputin


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    Russian Auto Industry - Page 24 Empty Lada

    Post  Gazputin Sat Apr 30, 2022 10:34 am

    in Europe Dacia the cheap and cheerful Romanian brand is selling its tits off
    it does seem to though focus on have a lot of interior space - which is clever in that usually you need an "expensive brand" for more interior space
    very clever stuff imho

    before the Ukraine thing
    Renault had bought back the rights to the Niva sub-brand from GM
    and they were planning to create a range above Lada as a premium - rugged 4WD semi-retro styling
    Niva was to be the Russian "brand" for Europe (as a Russian "Jeep" I guess is the best description)

    that's all on the back burner now

    and the Togliatti factory was going to lose the design work to Dacia in Romania for the Lada range .... as they were to become identical
    then Renault would stop badging Dacia's in Russia as Renault .... and go upmarket with Renault models only

    meanwhile Togliatti was to become a big steel component factory .... engines and panels and bodies
    a lot shipped to Romania and North Africa
    which makes sense Russia has its own iron ore .... and lots of factories and big river systems to ship big metal objects around

    I have to admit ... I would have signed off on that new Renault strategy .... it made perfect sense to me
    Russia wasn't happy as most of the design work was going to Romania .... I think the Niva stuff was going to be designed in Russia

    Togliatti will focus on the lower end models of Lada now ..... ripping out electronic bits and airbags etc
    excess workers can probably go and work in the aircraft industry nearby .... plenty of work there soon

    lets face it the car industry globally is going to be a shambles for at least 2 more years re shortage of electronic components etc
    Russia won't be alone in this stuff .

    its an insane industry .... I couldn't get out fast enough .... full of complete idiots




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    Gazputin


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    Russian Auto Industry - Page 24 Empty the planned "Niva" range 2024

    Post  Gazputin Sat Apr 30, 2022 10:48 am

    I like it actually - looks chunky and durable
    looks to me based on Nissan 4WDs .... not a bad thing no

    a modern "retro " take on the famous Russian Niva .... which is thought of as being the Russian "Jeep"

    https://avtonovostidnya.ru/novinki/237924-lada-niva

    oh well ..... maybe closer to 2030 now

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    Russian Auto Industry - Page 24 Empty Russia Car Market sales by model 2020-21

    Post  Gazputin Sat Apr 30, 2022 2:14 pm

    Koreans are well entrenched ....
    doubt they would leave after putting in so much effort

    same for VW group you would think ...

    https://rusautonews.com/2022/01/19/top-25-best-selling-cars-in-russia-in-2021/

    interesting reading though
    (the top selling "Renaults" are actually Dacia models in Europe)

    last thing I read was Lada intend to build Granta, Vesta and Niva ..... with all unnecessary electronics stripped out of them
    for the immediate future








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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sat Apr 30, 2022 3:53 pm

    Gazputin wrote:I like it actually - looks chunky and durable
    looks to me based on Nissan 4WDs .... not a bad thing no

    a modern "retro " take on the famous Russian Niva .... which is thought of as being the Russian "Jeep"

    https://avtonovostidnya.ru/novinki/237924-lada-niva

    oh well ..... maybe closer to 2030 now


    The oversized tires make it look stupid. The original Niva was very practical and sturdy. New versions should invest
    in more room and more powerful engines.

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    Post  caveat emptor Sat Apr 30, 2022 5:28 pm

    kvs wrote:
    Gazputin wrote:I like it actually - looks chunky and durable
    looks to me based on Nissan 4WDs .... not a bad thing no

    a modern "retro " take on the famous Russian Niva .... which is thought of as being the Russian "Jeep"

    https://avtonovostidnya.ru/novinki/237924-lada-niva

    oh well ..... maybe closer to 2030 now


    The oversized tires make it look stupid.  The original Niva was very practical and sturdy.   New versions should invest
    in more room and more powerful engines.  

    I completely agree about engines. Standard 1.7l feel underpowered, especially, when you're driving off road while carrying some extra weight. Otherwise it is pretty dependable and simple. Main design flaw, for me, was a cumbersome solution  to  lowering back seat in order to get more space trunk space. I wonder why they didn't fix that already. In general, it could use some redesign and better plastics inside.
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    Russian Auto Industry - Page 24 Empty Renault presentation on the Autovaz site

    Post  Gazputin Sat Apr 30, 2022 10:20 pm

    3,200,000 m2 ...... ginormous

    https://www.renaultgroup.com/en/our-company/locations/togliatti-2/

    re engines
    just about every car on the road these days has small 3-4 cylinder turbos
    (an offshoot of EU emissions standards I'm sure but also combine well with hybrid electric systems)
    turbo-6s are killing off V8s .....

    in fact the entire world seems to be going to
    "big" engines .... 3-3.5L 6 cylinder turbos
    and smaller 1.2-1.6 litre 3-4 cylinder turbos
    3s and 6s are apparently nicely suited to turbos due to the exhaust "puff" sequence ...

    cars and people in general
    lets face it most of the human population is mentally ill these days

    here in Oz every 2nd "car" is some idiotic "escape machine" SUV .... or a big quad cab ute
    ... you rarely see "cars" or "hatchbacks" any more
    most of these "escape machines" never leave the road
    I even see real 4WDs carefully driving around roundabout ... rather than put one tyre over the small ridge on the centre island
    you just shake your head ....

    I live 1.5hrs south of Sydney
    Shoalhaven region - I retired here - it is the most popular holiday region in the State
    always has been hugely popular for Xmas and Easter holidays
    local population is around 30k ..... with holiday crowds 100k .... internet dies yes

    but now .... its all year round
    every Friday now there is an enormous queue of complete morons from Sydney
    towing caravans, boats, trailers with mountain bikes and standup paddleboards etc .... they are all "escaping"
    to the very same caravan park .... that will be more crowded than where they came from in Sydney ....

    oh and lets not forget its mandatory now to tow an "offroad" caravan
    with galvanised steel sides and often with quad wheels ....
    (white caravans are so passe)
    some are so big you wonder why people bother to leave home at all ?

    we now have "boat ramp rage" .... every weekend
    where all the idiots fight to get their towed "escape machines" (boats) into the water
    soon our lakes will be devoid of fish from overfishing ...

    and yes every Sunday .... same idiots heading back north in huge queues

    yeah I stay at home all weekends now .... waiting for the idiots to go away again

    another new phenomena is those "storage companies" where you can store stuff in roller door lockups
    they are now also full of you guessed it ..... caravans, boats ..... "escape machines" in storage in open paddocks

    me I drive a station wagon with a big low revving 3.6L V6 in it ..... with an LPG tank in addition to my petrol tank
    I can run as economically as a buzzy little 4 cylinder turbo
    my 2nd car is my little Toyota MR2 Spyder ... it has a 1.8L straight-4 ..... it was considered a small engine at the time
    now it has a bigger engine than 1/2 the cars on the road ..... go figure

    welcome to the f...ked up 21st century ....

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    Post  GarryB Sun May 01, 2022 8:01 am

    I am also Toyota/Lexus owner. Simple, dependable, doesn't stand out. That's all I need. But I still don't think that all Japanese cars are cheap or excellent. Nissan and Mitsubishi are quite poorly built and are garage queens.

    There are a couple of factors I should point out... first of all my experience is long but not extensive... and being at the arse end of the world most of the cars available here in the 60s and 70s were european and they were awful... not cheap, and always needing work.

    I have owned two Toyotas and they were excellent, but the next one might be a dog... I don't know, and have heard stories about other Japanese cars that cover the range of hate them and love them.

    The thing is that Japan was supporting its car industries by making rules that increased road costs for anything more than two years old so it was actually cost effective for Japanese car owners to just buy a new car every few years, which generated an enormous number of second hand cars that none of the locals would touch because their on road costs were terrible, so lots of exported almost new cars which might have sat in traffic jams for two years.

    When they got here they were very reasonably priced and because there were so many spare parts were easy and cheap to get which was the opposite of expensive european cars.

    The cheap european cars were awful and unreliable... the expensive ones were money sinks that I kept away from and most were not that reliable either.

    In comparison the cheap jap cars were reliable with easy to get parts, which made the rather more attractive than a british car you might have to get the bearings and an engine rebore after 50K kms...

    I have a friend who loved British cars and he had them in large numbers and it was entertaining to see what he arrived in which he generally made a decision about based on what would start and what had a warrant of fitness at the time.

    Talking about cars, Russian market is massive. It's just a time when production will start again, Toyota themselves are retaining all the staff and calling suspension of production in Russia as (component shortage issue) Just need that political clamp to loosen up again.

    The Russian car makers had limited growth potential because without customer loyalty they were fighting established makers with a wide variety of products and customers in other markets so they could afford to reduce prices in Russia to get market share before creeping them up again to make good profits.

    They are not selling cars in Russia as a charity to help Russian people... they are there to make money.

    Well now the field has been cleared and a lot of competition has gone forced out by their own governments... so this is a real opportunity for Russian car makers to lift their game and start making cars in all the niches instead of just cheap and simple... they can go for luxury and sporty and every other aspect, but then India and China can sell too so they don't have it all to themselves which is good because it will prevent them getting fat and lazy.

    I like it actually - looks chunky and durable
    looks to me based on Nissan 4WDs .... not a bad thing no

    The circle of life... the asians learned the trade copying european car designs and now Russia is copying Asian car designs... when it comes to car shapes there is a lot of inbreeding, but that is fine.

    In general, it could use some redesign and better plastics inside.

    Technology for new plastics should mean the cheap awful stuff doesn't make sense for commercial use any more and the better quality stuff gets used instead.

    I remember the first deck chairs used to get all pitted and brittle after a few years in the sun and the cold but new ones last longer than your house and look shiny and new no matter what you do with them...

    here in Oz every 2nd "car" is some idiotic "escape machine" SUV .... or a big quad cab ute
    ... you rarely see "cars" or "hatchbacks" any more

    Yeah, sedans and two door hatchbacks are very rare these days here too... it is all big SUV type vehicles that never leave the tar seal and go to supermarkets and soccer fields on the weekends rather than mountainsides...

    The greenies in government are trying to kill utes because there don't seem to be hybrid or electric utes in our market... which of course pisses off the tradies and farmers who want a combination small car and light truck for the dogs or the gear.

    When they kill those off I suspect the makers of vans will benefit but they seem attached to their vehicles and likely wont go quietly.

    welcome to the f...ked up 21st century ....

    It is the same here... all the secret little holiday places your family went to escape to the crib (in New Zealand most south islanders call a holiday home a crib... in the north island they call the same thing a batch) and there was wide open spaces and very few other people... these days all those small out of the way places have houses built there and are no longer semi rural and all congested... it is quite sad because these days most can't afford a house let alone a second house out in the country... places up central otago if your family has more than one kid then the house gets sold... you might get a million dollars for it but if you want to live there you can't afford to buy new houses for all the brothers and sisters from the proceeds of the sale of one house so you basically have to either rent or move and the house values means rent is high.... and it isn't getting any better.
    Kiko
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    Post  Kiko Mon May 02, 2022 10:56 pm

    Renault to sell Russian assets for one ruble– officials

    The French automaker will reportedly transfer its Avtovaz shares to the research institute behind Russia’s first luxury car.

    French carmaker Renault plans to sell its stake in Russia’s Avtovaz for a symbolic sum of 1 ruble, the Russian Trade Ministry announced on Wednesday.

    Renault will transfer its 68% stake to the auto research institute NAMI Russia, known for designing the Aurus Senat, the country’s first luxury car, currently used by President Vladimir Putin. Renault apparently took the step as it lacks the ability to maintain its Russian operations.

    The Trade Ministry also said Renault's factory in Moscow, which produces cars under the Renault and Nissan brands, would be transferred to the city's government.

    Renault has declined to comment on the deal.

    The trade ministry said the French carmaker will have the right to buy back its Avtovaz stake within five to six years, if the company wishes to return to the Russian market.

    “But if during this period we make investments, then that will be taken into account when it comes to the cost [of the shares]. We won't be giving any presents here,” Trade Minister Denis Manturov said, commenting on the move.

    The deal comes as Western companies try to navigate the new economic realities. Western states have placed unprecedented sanctions on Russia over the past two months in retaliation for Russia’s military operation in Ukraine.

    With many international companies under pressure to quit the Russian market, the Yale School of Management estimates that more than 750 firms are ending or scaling back their Russia operations.

    Renault has until now been the most Russia-exposed Western carmaker. The company announced a suspension of operations at its Moscow plant last month, estimating the cost of the move at €2.2 billion ($2.3 billion).

    https://www.rt.com/business/554626-renault-russia-stake-one-ruble/

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    Post  GarryB Tue May 03, 2022 5:32 am

    Russian millionaires and billionaires have probably been given the same choice... sell it or lose it.

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    Post  Kiko Mon May 16, 2022 11:31 am

    And with no further retribution to Renault, on account of past profits collected and channeled out of Russia for years.

    Russia Nationalises Local Assets of French Carmaker Renault

    MOSCOW (Sputnik) - The Russian government is taking ownership of Russian assets of French carmaker Renault, including the Renault Russia plant being passed to the Moscow government and shares in Russian vehicle plant AvtoVAZ to a state-run research center, the Russian Ministry of Industry and Trade said on Monday.

    Renault announced in March it was suspending all operations in Russia due to the Ukraine crisis and sanctions.

    "Russian assets of the Renault group are being passed to state ownership. Agreements have been signed on the transfer of Russian assets of the Renault group to Russia and the Moscow government. The agreements signed provide for the transfer of Renault Russia shares to the city of Moscow and AvtoVAZ shares to the government represented by FSUE [federal state unitary enterprise] NAMI", the ministry said on Telegram.

    Thus, the city of Moscow will own 100% of shares of Renault Russia, while 67.69% of AvtoVAZ shares will become the property of the Russian government represented by NAMI. The remaining shares will be kept by Russian state technology corporation Rostec.

    Moscow Mayor Sergei Sobyanin said he made the decision to adopt the plant in order to preserve jobs of its employees with a view to resuming the production of cars under the Soviet-Russian brand Moskvitch.

    https://sputniknews.com/20220516/russia-nationalises-local-assets-of-french-carmaker-renault-1095537262.html

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    Post  sepheronx Mon May 16, 2022 12:00 pm

    Kiko wrote:And with no further retribution to Renault, on account of past profits collected and channeled out of Russia for years.

    Russia Nationalises Local Assets of French Carmaker Renault

    MOSCOW (Sputnik) - The Russian government is taking ownership of Russian assets of French carmaker Renault, including the Renault Russia plant being passed to the Moscow government and shares in Russian vehicle plant AvtoVAZ to a state-run research center, the Russian Ministry of Industry and Trade said on Monday.

    Renault announced in March it was suspending all operations in Russia due to the Ukraine crisis and sanctions.

    "Russian assets of the Renault group are being passed to state ownership. Agreements have been signed on the transfer of Russian assets of the Renault group to Russia and the Moscow government. The agreements signed provide for the transfer of Renault Russia shares to the city of Moscow and AvtoVAZ shares to the government represented by FSUE [federal state unitary enterprise] NAMI", the ministry said on Telegram.

    Thus, the city of Moscow will own 100% of shares of Renault Russia, while 67.69% of AvtoVAZ shares will become the property of the Russian government represented by NAMI. The remaining shares will be kept by Russian state technology corporation Rostec.

    Moscow Mayor Sergei Sobyanin said he made the decision to adopt the plant in order to preserve jobs of its employees with a view to resuming the production of cars under the Soviet-Russian brand Moskvitch.

    https://sputniknews.com/20220516/russia-nationalises-local-assets-of-french-carmaker-renault-1095537262.html

    Cool, we will see Moskvitch brand cars? That is pretty neat!

    Hope they do electric and other type of vehicles.

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    Post  Kiko Mon May 16, 2022 12:37 pm

    The expert suggested which cars will be produced under the Moskvich brand, by Tatyana Kosolapova for VZGLYAD. 16.05.2022.

    Cars under the Moskvich brand, which will now be produced at Renault's Moscow plant, should be no worse than the company produced when it was a partner of AvtoVAZ, Viktor Pokhmelkin, chairman of the Russian Motorists Movement, told the VZGLYAD newspaper, commenting on the corresponding message from Moscow's mayor Sergei Sobyanin.

    Moscow Mayor Sergei Sobyanin said that due to the fact that the foreign owner of Renault decided to close the Moscow plant, now a car will be produced there under the historical Moskvich brand.

    “In general, all the recent time our auto industry has kept only on joint ventures with foreign companies and foreign brands. Now it takes years to do something independently, to restore something. And what will now be done in a hurry to patch holes has no prospects, ”says Pokhmelkin.

    However, he does not rule out that over time the plant will still be able to produce a suitable product that will be in demand. Moreover, in the current situation, the buyer can give a real chance to develop a domestic manufacturer.

    “First of all, the emphasis should be on the quality and safety of the car. Moreover, any good car will be in demand: a sedan, a hatchback, a crossover - everyone has their own buyer. The main thing is that it is of high quality and affordable. If these two components are observed, then, of course, there will be a buyer,” the interlocutor believes.

    Considering the specifics of the Moskvich brand, the expert believes that sedan-type cars will most likely be produced. Nevertheless, if the company wants to try itself in a new role, then other types will be in demand.

    “The criteria for a good car, for me: reliability, comfort, a certain set of options, without which it is difficult to imagine a modern car today, safety. But, again, even the cheapest car has a buyer, but we already have enough cheap ones. And, of course, if Renault is to be changed, then it should be such a product that will be no worse than what they produced when they were AvtoVAZ partners,” Pokhmelkin concluded.

    Earlier it became known that all the assets of the French automobile group Renault in Russia become the property of the state: a share in AvtoVAZ - NAMI, the Renault Russia plant - Moscow, the Ministry of Industry and Trade said.

    https://vz.ru/news/2022/5/16/1158627.html

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    Post  Kiko Mon May 16, 2022 2:30 pm

    The economist appreciated the idea to revive the production of "Moskvich" at the Renault plant, 16.05.2022.

    Economist Goykhman called the revival of the production of "Moskviches" at the Renault plant a significant event in the Russian auto industry.

    The revival of the production of passenger cars under the historical Moskvich brand on the platform of the French automotive corporation Renault in Moscow claims to be a significant event in the Russian automotive industry. This was told to Izvestia by the chief economist of the information and analytical center TeleTrade Mark Goykhman on Monday, May 16.

    Earlier in the day, the Ministry of Industry and Trade announced that Renault's Russian assets would become state property . The production of Renault Russia will come under the direct control of the Moscow authorities. This will allow the company to continue working under sanctions restrictions and save jobs. Under existing licenses, the production of the entire line of LADA cars will continue, AvtoVAZ will service Renault cars in the Russian market.

    Moscow Mayor Sergei Sobyanin announced that the Renault plant in the capital will start producing Moskvich cars . The main technological partner of the revived Moscow Automobile Plant Moskvich will be KamAZ. Together with KamAZ and the Ministry of Industry and Trade, the city administration is working to localize the production of the maximum number of auto components in Russia.

    Goikhman also noted that the facilities of the plant transferred to the ownership of the state of the Russian Federation will not produce cars on the Renault platform, we are talking about the production of other, Russian brands.

    “In the current situation, the transfer of Renault car-building assets to Russian structures is a positive development. This brings certainty to the issues of further functioning of production. The positive is that they are largely preserved - and this is already quite a lot. Jobs remain in the production of rather demanded equipment. New cars of domestic assembly will enter the market, that is, to some extent, the formed niches of consumer demand will be filled, ”said the economist.

    He recalled that Renault has valued Russian assets at almost €2.2 billion, they are being transferred at a conditional price of 1 ruble. Goykhman considers it logical that in such a situation we should not talk about irrevocable free nationalization, since neither side burns bridges.

    “The French concern has the right to get back its assets within six years. His place in the market remains potentially for him. At the same time, in the case of additional investments from the Russian side, they must be compensated when Renault is returned,” he said.

    According to him, the LADA line of cars, including Niva, Granta, will remain at the VAZ automobile plant, and the production of Priora may be restored. But later models produced at the factory by Renault will probably not be assembled, the specialist admitted.

    “At the Moscow plant, instead of Renault cars, the Moskvich brand is being revived. But on a more modern technological base in partnership with KamAZ. It is expected to contribute to the modernization of the Moskvich lineup. Such is the evolution - having made a big "circle" in it, the plant is called upon to be reborn as a large domestic enterprise with long traditions, with continuity. It is still difficult to say how successful this new life of his will be, whether the revived brand will be in demand,” said Goykhman.

    He lamented that the quality of the cars might suffer and the cost could rise relatively.

    Service maintenance of cars, including Renault, will continue, and part of the components will be supplied from third countries through parallel imports, he added.

    “The spare parts, materials and components necessary for this will obviously be produced at the transferred plants within the limits of technological capabilities and capacities. But, probably, a significant part of the required components will be supplied from third countries through parallel imports. This is a forced measure to provide service for previously sold cars and new ones imported, in particular, by the same parallel imports. Probably, the cost of these deliveries will be higher due to the complexity of logistics, the participation of additional links, ”said the economist.

    In any case, both production at factories and imports with additional logistics schemes are better than a hypothetical situation with the absence of these machines and spare parts on the market and idle factories, he concluded.

    The car factory is located on Volgogradsky Prospekt in Moscow and has a long history. Almost a hundred years ago, Ford cars were produced on it. Then "Moskvich" descended from its assembly line. Since 1998, the plant began cooperation with Renault and launched the production of Logans, Dusters and Sanderos.

    Automobile production "Moskvich" existed from 1930 to 2010. In 2010, OAO Moskvich was liquidated due to bankruptcy.

    At the end of February, idle mode was introduced at Renault in the capital due to interruptions in the supply of components , on March 21 the company resumed production as usual, but on March 23 it announced the suspension of activities in Russia.

    https://iz.ru/1335093/2022-05-16/ekonomist-otcenil-ideiu-po-vozrozhdeniiu-proizvodstva-moskvichei-na-zavode-renault

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    Post  kvs Mon May 16, 2022 6:12 pm

    There is zero reason to not revive production of "old" models. Western companies are not necessary for the Russian automobile industry.

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    Post  Kiko Mon May 16, 2022 6:23 pm

    The Ministry of Industry and Trade announced plans to produce Renault Duster under the Lada brand, by Vera Basilaya for VZGLYAD, 16.05.2022.

    The Renault Duster car will be produced under the Lada brand at the AvtoVAZ plant in Togliatti, there is a corresponding agreement with Renault, Denis Pak, director of the automotive industry and railway engineering department of the Ministry of Industry and Trade, said on the Rossiya 24 TV channel.

    “I want to say separately about the possibility of producing Renault Duster cars at AvtoVAZ, but under the Lada brand. A corresponding agreement has also been reached on this with Renault, ” Pak is quoted by RIA Novosti as saying.

    He also added that the Renault Duster model will be mastered in production in Togliatti.

    Pak also said that the Ministry of Industry and Trade of Russia expects the launch of the production of cars under the Moskvich brand at the former Renault Russia plant this year.

    “I think that in the near future the Moscow government, together with the management of the plant, will present us with their plan for the development of such production. We expect the launch of production this year," TASS quoted him as saying .

    The day before, Moscow Mayor Sergei Sobyanin announced that a car under the historical Moskvich brand would be produced at the Moscow Renault plant. This decision was made after the announcement of Renault about the transfer of its assets in Russia to the ownership of the state.

    100% of the shares of CJSC Renault Russia will be owned by the Moscow government, 67.69% of the shares of AvtoVAZ will become the property of the Russian Federation represented by FSUE NAMI. The remaining shares of the automaker will be kept by Rostec State Corporation.

    It is reported that KamAZ will become the main technological partner of the revived Moscow Automobile Plant Moskvich. At the first stage, the production of classic cars with an internal combustion engine will be organized, and in the future - electric cars.

    https://vz.ru/news/2022/5/16/1158679.html

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    Post  Scorpius Mon May 16, 2022 7:04 pm

    sepheronx wrote:

    Cool, we will see Moskvitch brand cars?  That is pretty neat!

    Hope they do electric and other type of vehicles.

    Russian Auto Industry - Page 24 755350354931407
    I think they should release a limited series of retro-style electric cars.

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    Post  Kiko Tue May 17, 2022 2:46 pm

    Renault was deprived of the opportunity to buy back the Moskvich plant, 17.05.2022.

    The Moskvich plant, which the capital took over after Renault left, will remain Russian, there will be no opportunity to buy it back from the former owner, said Maxim Liksutov, Deputy Mayor of Moscow for Transport.

    “It is important that when we received the plant, it was the principled position of the mayor of the city that we do not have a buyback option from Renault, that is, this plant will be Russian all the time. We very much hope that - and we set such a task for the management of the enterprise - that, first of all, as many components as possible be produced in the Russian Federation, ” RIA Novosti reports with reference to Moscow 24, Liksutov’s words.

    He noted that the Moscow government will provide a firm order for the enterprise, together with Moscow taxi and car sharing companies, so that the plant has a clear understanding of the prospects.

    The day before, Moscow Mayor Sergei Sobyanin announced that a car under the historical Moskvich brand would be produced at the Moscow Renault plant. This decision was made after the announcement of Renault about the transfer of its assets in Russia to the ownership of the state.

    100% of the shares of CJSC Renault Russia will be owned by the Moscow government, 67.69% of the shares of AvtoVAZ will become the property of Russia represented by FSUE NAMI. The remaining shares of the automaker will be retained by Rostec State Corporation. Dmitry Pronin, deputy head of Deprance of the capital , became the director of the Moscow Automobile Plant Moskvich .

    https://vz.ru/news/2022/5/17/1158754.html
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    Post  Firebird Tue May 17, 2022 5:48 pm

    I wonder what might happen with the Mercedes and BMW plants in Russia etc?

    Of course some of it depends on access to components, and retail pricing. But these are generally very modern cars.
    Would be nice for a Merc S class to "become" a "Chaika"/"Zil"/"Russo-Balt" or whatever brand is resurrected.

    With the combined skills of Aurus, Kamaz and the volume Russian carmakers, with some Chinese or other help
    these could form a very powerful product for "Zone B" countries.
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    Post  flamming_python Tue May 17, 2022 7:38 pm

    Gazputin wrote:it does appear that it was built as a Soviet super factory
    with the help of the Italian Communists and Fiat
    hence the Italian city name Toglietti
    named after the then leader of the Italian communist party .... how weird is all that

    just looking at aerial phot of it ..... it is ginormous
    must be one of the biggest factories of any kind on Earth ?
    and yes having visited many Italian factories .... it does look very Italian
    there even seems to be its own powerstation nearby ? .... incredible

    it is an almost totally vertically integrated plant
    where the engines are made on site
    and the bodies
    in fact anything metal .....

    paintshop ... tick

    plastics ?
    plastics shops aren't that big ..... surely that is there or nearby
    mostly ABS stuff

    electronics ? no idea .... shipped in most likely

    ( re the Industry
    the biggest barrier to entry for new players is the enormous range of engines that big players have access to
    and gearboxes ..... that can be "Fine-tuned" to meet idiotic govt environmental crap .... )

    I assume they will keep building Renault engines ....

    but at a pinch
    I would do the inline-4 from NAMI in a transverse layout
    as a FWD chassis - with variable wheelbase modular platform
    and then for up-spec do a hybrid 4WD ..... that has electric drive to the back wheels
    you could use that for a huge range of vehicles
    you can get 4-5 quite distinct models from that  ..... 2-3 SUVs and 2x cars/hatches ... that's plenty
    using 1x IC engine

    well within their capabilities
    these guys are great engineers you see it everywhere you look








    I been to Togliatti

    Beautiful surrounding nature, butt ugly city, lots of dacha settlements, very wide river, and a huge ass autoplant

    Let's hope no Nazis infest the AvtoVAZ automobile plant and make their home there, that's the main thing. Instead the place can just continue to provide jobs

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    Post  Kiko Wed May 18, 2022 12:33 am

    Manturov announced the plans of the Moskvich plant to cooperate with foreign brands, by Olga Ivanova for VZGLYAD. 17.05.2022.

    The Moscow plant "Moskvich" plans to both cooperate with foreign brands and introduce its own developments, including those for electric vehicles, Denis Manturov, head of the Russian Ministry of Industry and Trade, told reporters.

    “Automotive production will be preserved at the Moscow site, but the previous model range will not be produced. Now, together with Kamaz, work is underway on a new strategy for the Moscow plant: it involves both cooperation with foreign brands and the development of its own products, including electric ones, ” RIA Novosti quotes him.

    He also noted that all the achievements of Kamaz in the development of electric vehicles, including those that have already been publicly announced, will be used.

    Earlier, Manturov said that AvtoVAZ will produce cars on a platform developed by the French company Renault together with a Russian manufacturer.

    The day before, Moscow Mayor Sergei Sobyanin announced that a car under the historical Moskvich brand would be produced at the Moscow Renault plant. This decision was made after the announcement of Renault about the transfer of its assets in Russia to the ownership of the state.

    100% of the shares of CJSC Renault Russia will be owned by the Moscow government, 67.69% of the shares of AvtoVAZ will become the property of the Russian Federation represented by FSUE NAMI. The remaining shares of the automaker will be kept by Rostec State Corporation.

    Dmitry Pronin, deputy head of Deprance of the capital , became the director of the Moscow Automobile Plant Moskvich.

    https://vz.ru/news/2022/5/17/1158893.html

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    Post  lancelot Wed May 18, 2022 2:22 am

    This is going to take a while to get going. I kind of expected it. Even if they license produce or make an old vehicle it might still take a couple years to get to production. In the long run they need a Russian vehicle design but that can come later. The design can be done in parallel with the initial construction. There is a bazillion of Chinese companies, which have zero exports in practice, which they can license technology and buy parts from. Each major region of China has like 2 or 3 car manufacturers. Probably two dozen car companies total. As China is opening up their market to foreign manufacturers, you can bet a lot of them will be soon going out of business, so Russia should take this god given chance I think.

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    Post  caveat emptor Wed May 18, 2022 5:10 am

    Auto industry is extremely hard and competitive. It needs huge investments and return is usually over long term, if there's any, in the first place.
    GL to them

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