Russian Auto Industry

Well I don't know much about Granta(only some remarks about bad shifting points and other legacy stuff posted by their owners at runet)  but I know about Niva, Kalina, Priora. Not to mention old models my father and mother used to drive and the ones I've learned how to fix at polytechnikum. 
Well You can understand me being skeptical, I'm not a blind hater, so please don't get me wrong. UAZ is still no1 for offroad project car and I love Russian/Soviet bikes too.

And 100 hp means nothing, it's more to do with real power that goes to the wheels, 1.6 naturally aspired engines have hard time with torque and to drive to get that power requires to keep high rpm's and thats where wear an high fuel consumption kicks in. Lada older 1.6 8v engines are surprisingly good, they lack power, quickness and are bit archaic but are mechanically refined and they last no worse than western engines, consumption is not bad in the city. Cars usually fail first before these engines. 16v are no good. And please don't be silly,  I'm not talking about   300bhp engines, but about variety. For example Opel Corsa/Tigra and Astra have bullet proof petrol engines starting from 1.0,  to 2.2, be it 16v, 12v, 8v. 
In Moscow city I would be happy with 1.4 engine or even smaller, for long highway driving I would prefer 1.8 or bigger engine. For traveling in suburbs 1.6 would be perfect I guess. 

I wasn't talking about luxury, but about cars like VW Passat, VW Jetta, Audi A4 and A6. 
I'm not posh bastard, I would be happy to own Russian car, but I don't see even a single option. I own diesel 2009 Passat and I hardly would call it luxury, especially with all that plastic and no air con, but it does 50mpg and 35 in the city so I'm happy. 177 hp comes in handy when overtaking and when I have to tow other cars on trailer. My wife drives 2001 Peugeot 307 2.0Hdi with 180 miles on clock. If Russian car industry would offer car that would be small family MPV like new Ford Galaxy with a good diesel engine we would gladly take it. Lada family cars are not for people that have children, big dog, or even a trailer. I'm middle class, not interested in fancy rims or super sports car performance(not for everyday car anyways), I like to fix car myself, I prefer reliability over comfort or looks, all this bluetooth crap, computers, tv screens are not important. Russia has big middle class in Moscow, why not to exploit their needs?

The Russian car market is an interesting topic.
I think its inevitable that these things take time to develop. Ofcourse, Russia is the only one of the top ec powers that doesn't have a mega-name car manufacturer. (Developing China, Brazil and India are the same).

I think Lada has to reflect what were its key markets ie CIS not the EU or intl markets. Russia has only just joined the WTO. Also, the aim was to produce a fairly cheap car. There isn't a huge 2nd hand car market in Russia where you can buy reliable/ prestige cars for low money. Nor is there the servicing infrastructure to maintain them, in the way you have with the EU. I'm sure Lada will improve more and more over time. I was thinking of how Volkswagen have improved Skoda (and also Seat). However, I think it would have been too early to turn Lada into a new Skoda.

Russian car industry is improving in numerous ways. Its now Europe's biggest producing country, nothing amazing but that does mean it makes more than Germany.. ALso its got a good range of manufacturing - BMW, Renault/ Lada, Marussia, Kamaz trucks. Ofcourse much of this is joint venture/ licensed, but that is the way things are, even for the mega manufacturers too (which I think is sometimes a mistake eg Merc's disastrous merger with Americans).

Russia is learning the skills and its population is starting to have more money, and there is also WTO entry. These give Russia a chance to become a top top car manufacturing player. Maybe it can do in cars what S Korea did in electronics? Perhaps Marussia can step into luxury saloons. Or the Zil name is used to produce volume cars, maybe sharing tech with Merc or BMW. Car making is moving towards "mass customisation" from the "mass production" of the Henry Ford era. Maybe styling and design hold the key? There's no reason why Russia cant produce a Hummer, or even Range Rover rival, given its experience in military type offroaders. (Aton looks promising). Yo Mobil is another possib. With low(ish) overheads and the skills base, there are certainly possibilities.

Everyone has a preference.  I like the Granta and would purchase one if they sold them in Canada, as I need something like it (cheap, semi-reliable, and capable of being taken to point a to point b)

Fair enough, my everyday car serves me same purpose. Maybe in Canada You are not worried about fuel cost, but I pay over 2.20 Canadian dollars per 1 litre of petrol and around 2.40 CAD/1 litre diesel. Diesel engine while being less thirsty is better option for us Europeans. Fuel is not cheap in Russia too.

Cars change over time, and problems usually get dealt with.

Or new ones appear as new unproven technologies are being introduced. For example my car would be way more reliable with older 1.9 TDI Pumpe duse engine rather than 2.0 TDI with unreliable common rail piezo injectors instead of solenoid ones. Not to mention unreliable oil pump and etc, chassis that is hard as butter.
 

If you got a big family, than the UAZ Patriot would be choice

I can imagine going offroad with baby on board. For a family with two kids there is nothing better than European MPV(Ford Galaxy, VW Sharan, Seat Alhambra, they all share same base), a car with high roof just enough to swing a good slap to Your children on the back seat.  

it is a large vehicle that has plenty of room, and mechanically, I hear it is quite sound.

Not sure about Patriot, but Hunter is very reliable, so I presume it must be same too. UAZ have refined design, what can I say.  

 If I want luxury, I would purchase outside, as outside makes better luxury cars it seems.

I personally find luxury cars are made for people who want to express their socio/economic status. Usually it's peacock type of people with low self esteem. For example VW only has 1 luxury car model at all. Phaeton. And not a flashiest one too. VW and luxury cars are oxymoron.

 I am interested in the Aquila, but time will tell how that is.

Small company, small production lines. Good luck finding even small part :)When I owned rare Japanese car, had to import parts from Japan. That's what You call logistical nightmare. If You would live in Russia I would not see any problems.

Your hate for Granta seems odd, and even though some basis of it is based off of the Kalina, so are things like Dodge cruze is based off of the dodge Neon.  So what?  Doesn't mean everything is based off of the same thing.  As well, it looks pretty decent.  Kalina 2 is ugly, but so what?  If it suites some people it suites them.  And it seems it sells quite well (Granta), so who are we to say anything?  I hated my Toyota Camry, but lots of others love it.  Doesn't make me right.  For a small cheap city car, the Granta is a great choice.

I'm maybe being too sceptical, but it's not hate. These models are thousand times better what was made before anyway. The less old Ladas on roads the safer they are. Just remembered breaks on 1 generation Kalina, they are still drum breaks, not a disc ones. Talking about safety.

Would be nice though, if they used something from Hyundai, like their 2.4L engines.  Those are great engines, and my father has one in his Hyundai Sonata, which runs great (although, rest of the car is crap).

Have 0 experience with Hyundai, us Europeans probably get the worst models with smallest engines possible. Emissions, Emissions, Emissions. To hell with it.

Edit: I would agree with you though, they could offer more options, like a larger engine, more auto transmission options, maybe other little bells and whistles like backup cameras and what not, without needing aftermarket.  A bigger engine would be a lot nicer for sure.  But unfortunately, so far, not an option.  Maybe because it is doing well (the big turn around from Avtovaz), that the next generation models will come with a larger engine.

Well AvtoVaz is owned by Renault-Nissan, and there is no need to create something from scratch to fill gaps in family car segment for example.  Renault Fluence or Nissan Terrano could be base for bigger sedans. Engines can be used from these companies too and modified to an extent. I would really wish Russian auto industry become as powerful as Europe's. Russia would have luxury of making and assembling cars in their own country and thus helping people to earn money. Ford Transit cars were amazing until they decided that British work is too expensive and they moved production lines to Turkey. Well quality dropped significantly.

As firebird mentioned, maybe it's too early for Lada to become new Skoda or Seat, but it would be sweet to see that.

More news on Project "Cortege"













Production of SUVs based on a single modular platform is planned to organize at the Ulyanovsk Automobile Plant

It clarifies the ministry's press service, the end of this year will create three-dimensional virtual models of the family car, as well as physical prototypes are made engine, automatic transmission, power of the body and the elements of the electronic control system.


- By 2015 it is planned to create the first prototypes of all models by 2016 must be completed testing of prototypes EYP. In 2017 planned to develop the power plant (engine, automatic transmission, and so on) and putting into production cars, "Sedan / Limousine." 2018 - Car "SUV" and "Minivan", - said the agency.

Production facility to assemble SUV based on the EMP will be Ulyanovsk Automobile Plant, a subsidiary of the holding Sollers. It is assumed that the project company to release 40,000 SUVs.


At the car to comment on the project refused, explaining that any work on the plant is not conducted.The project, tentatively titled "Developing and putting into production vehicles based on a single modular platform" is implemented in accordance with the decree of the Russian Government dated February 6, 2014. Its main task - to develop a modern platform components which businesses domestic auto industry could include designing their own brands of commercial vehicles. Approximately five percent of the total volume of produced vehicles will account for special vehicles for top officials. In addition, on one modular platform is planned to organize the production of several lines of premium cars and business class.


According to the press service of the Ministry of Industry, the maximum volume of all modifications will reach seven - ten thousand cars a year. To implement the project based on the U.S. created a modern world-class engineering center. Along with Russian automakers (Sollers, GAZ, KAMAZ and ZIL) is planned to attract foreign companies led by Porsche Engineering. Design will deal with leading designers and the best graduates of Russian and Belarusian universities.


Now several related forms in a single chain units - center style, design, technology and test centers. The production site will be finally determined until the end of this year. For the realization of the entire project from the state budget spend about 12.4 billion rubles.


By the way


In early April, the project came from one of the participants - the company "Marussia Motors", which was supposed to make marketing planning, development of engineering solutions and assemblies and fully develop two types of cars in the ENP ("Limousine" and "SUV"). According to Minister of Industry and Trade Minister Denis Manturova, this should not affect the timing of the project: "The main staff of specialists went to work for us. Should perform to attract foreign companies, domestic and industry collaborators Russian innovative companies. Ministry of Industry expects commercial success ENP and its return in the short term due to the unique development of the international team of the best experts in the automotive industry. "

ZIL is back into business of making presidential and state cars .. so no more Mercedes rides for Pres

Picture of new Presidential Car in making
http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/48952/

Video of Family of New State Cars under works
https://youtu.be/6uO-gydV7XI

Austin wrote:ZIL is back into business of making presidential and state cars .. so no more Mercedes rides for Pres

Picture of new Presidential Car in making
http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/48952/

Video of Family of New State Cars under works
https://youtu.be/6uO-gydV7XI

I never understand why they couldn't make their own luxury presidential car, theirs already enough Mercedes in the world lets see some diversity!

Austin wrote:ZIL is back into business of making presidential and state cars .. so no more Mercedes rides for Pres

Picture of new Presidential Car in making
http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/48952/

Video of Family of New State Cars under works
https://youtu.be/6uO-gydV7XI

The limo looks a lot like the Rolls Royce limo.
Certainly looks good enough to make serial product.
I suppose in the past, most limos took a similar theme, whoever made them.

One thing I'd say tho is, that it would be great to have a futuristic cutting edge Zil. Something like a modern day Aston Martin Lagonda. A Lamborghini like limo, but obviously taller and bigger. Or perhaps even a Porsche Panamera-like limo. (I notice Porsche are working with Zil currently). In the concept sketches produced in Car.ru (I think) there was a really beautiful "sporty" limo badged up as a Marussia, I recall.

What would be great is a car that people look at and thing "Wow, thats the NEW Russia".

PS I hope they use the word "cavalcade" or "motorcade" when translating to English. "Cortege" sounds far to funeral-like... :-/

PPS the Porsche-VW linkup is actually much bigger than I thought. So I supect the new Zil must likely have some Bentley tech. However, Bentley is now separte from RollsRoyce. (Rolls is part of BMW group). So why does the Zil have the Rolls look? Confusing! hehe

Russia has a proud history of producing reliable working peoples cars and the only reason they have a bad reputation is because people only believe superficial luxury in western brand names because of propaganda.

But anyway  how is the russian car industry doing? Are there any modern non-mini cars being built that have gained major interest and if not why is that?

What is the chance for russian car design to restart?

When do you think russian cars will gain  a market share in foreign lands?What do you think should be done to make this happen?

I personally am optimistic about the russian car industry and when I get a license I plan on buying a russian car, either the Lada Samara, a new GAZ SUV, or the 90s GAZ Volga.

I really really hope russian final countersanctions will be of stopping access to the western car monopoly in russian land thus giving domestic industry a chance to develop again.
Russia is in extreme need to diversify its economy from almost only selling weapons and pollutant fuels to creating modern civilian products(not producing them, they should have china or vietnam do that since industrial production means you're an old primitive nonmodern economy) thus also stimulating domestic R&D.

It will take time, but I expect a comeback.

Russian cars always have dominated russian roads.

Werewolf wrote:Russian cars always have dominated russian roads.

That is true, makes me wonder about international performance...

Now that Russian car manufacturers have shown they can make "good" cars, I'd like to see them make "great" ones. Unfortunately I'll probably never get to drive one...

All these sanctions from the west should make European alternatives less attractive at least...

GarryB wrote:All these sanctions from the west should make European alternatives less attractive at least...

Very true, it should lead to a rise in domestic sales.

I think cars can broadly be split into 3 groups as of today.
1)budget and city eco-electric type cars eg some Asian and French cars as good examples
2)mid range eg quality midrange like most Volkswagens
3)top end - saloons, sports, SUVs, limos etc such as Mercedes up to Maybach.

I think Russia can do extremely well provided it works closely with foreign manufacturers.
The presidential Motorcade project looking to work with Porsche etc was very exciting. But I'm not sure where Marussia is at currently, given that its staff were laid off the M1 and M2 and sent to work on something else.

The best people to learn from I am sure are the Germans. Not only Merc and BMW but also Seat and Skoda have been fantastic success stories. I hope this sanctions bullshit doesnt sour it for Russia and Germany but if it does, then so what, Russia cannot be lectured to by that Kenyan bastard or any of his gimps in Europe. Russian land/people are infinitely more important than any car.

Russia has a fairly loyal customer base in cheaper/medium cars. But not so loyal in the prestige sector.
Ultimately, it needs to learn how to develop the identity of cars. BMW were bland and ugly for a long time, but styling eventually became as important as quality to them. Perhaps Russia can learn from Jaguar too - after all Jag is now an INDIAN not British owned company - so can have secure partnerships going forward.

Russia is one of the world's leading luxury goods areas so it would be nice to develop that area. But ofcourse that takes time. Perhaps Russia's climate and terrain leads it to developing SUVs etc too.
Finally Moscow would be ideal for a city-car, all that electric eco shit. I dont like all that, but it will become VERY important.

Russia is a very skilled country with competitive wages too. There's no reason why it cant be a big success in car manufacture.

Firebird wrote:I think cars can broadly be split into 3 groups as of today.
1)budget and city eco-electric type cars eg some Asian and French cars as good examples
2)mid range eg quality midrange like most Volkswagens
3)top end - saloons, sports, SUVs, limos etc such as Mercedes up to Maybach.

I think Russia can do extremely well provided it works closely with foreign manufacturers.
The presidential Motorcade project looking to work with Porsche etc was very exciting. But I'm not sure where Marussia is at currently, given that its staff were laid off the M1 and M2 and sent to work on something else.

The best people to learn from I am sure are the Germans. Not only Merc and BMW but also Seat and Skoda have been fantastic success stories. I hope this sanctions bullshit doesnt sour it for Russia and Germany but if it does, then so what, Russia cannot be lectured to by that Kenyan bastard or any of his gimps in Europe. Russian land/people are infinitely more important than any car.

Russia has a fairly loyal customer base in cheaper/medium cars. But not so loyal in the prestige sector.
Ultimately, it needs to learn how to develop the identity of cars. BMW were bland and ugly for a long time, but styling eventually became as important as quality to them. Perhaps Russia can learn from Jaguar too - after all Jag is now an INDIAN not British owned company - so can have secure partnerships going forward.

Russia is one of the world's leading luxury goods areas so it would be nice to develop that area.  But ofcourse that takes time. Perhaps Russia's climate and terrain leads it to developing SUVs etc too.
Finally Moscow would be ideal for a city-car, all that electric eco shit. I dont like all that, but it will become VERY important.

Russia is a very skilled country with competitive wages too. There's no reason why it cant be a big success in car manufacture.

The would be great... As of now, they really don't have much in the "luxury" department.

Gotta love that German "reliability"!  Marussia is down the drain, unfortunately 

 - You are 100% right on the last point. They have the capability, now they just need to get to it!

sepheronx wrote:Russian auto industry is a shitshow right now, with only Avtovaz and Sollers doing anything. Avtovaz showed their upcoming Lada Vesta which looks great and will probably be aimed at more luxury line while Granta will be for everyone. Then the XRay, which I believe is electric or Hybrid.

That said,MaRussia was doomed to fail. Outside of that, all others are foreign made vehicles. GreatWall motors will be building Chinese cars in Russia. Probably to gain foothold in CIS market especially in Caucuses. Avtovaz is pretty much only hope unless Sollers gets into making their own cars.

They need more "luxury line" vehicles, that being said, cheaper vehicles sell in much larger numbers... The X-ray is (so far) just a concept and nothing more.

And why exactly did marussia fail whats the problem with their cars?

Lada granta is just a mini car. They should emmediatly start designing something at least as big as the nissan almera or VW passat since cars in this class have a much larger customer base.

Also why only AvtoVAZ? What about GAZ?
Why can't they continue the mature and proven volga series? The only reason the latest model wasn't bought was because of the stupid "MERCEDES DA BEST" stereotype.

KomissarBojanchev wrote:And why exactly did marussia fail whats the problem with their cars?

Lada granta is just a mini car. They should emmediatly start designing something at least as big as the nissan almera or VW passat since cars in this class have a much larger customer base.

Also why only AvtoVAZ? What about GAZ?
Why can't they continue the mature and proven volga series? The only reason the latest model wasn't bought was because of the stupid "MERCEDES DA BEST" stereotype.

They weren't selling well... Too expensive and too little costumers.

It isn't that small, but it probably could be extended.

The Volga was retired for that very reason, it was getting old.