d_taddei2 wrote:Buk M3 for eventual replacement for the penchora and penchora to be mounted on
Expensive. Any of the Buks, nevermind the latest one. The Pechora-2M is basically the same class of SAM system albeit considerably cheaper. But if you want Buk-M3s then maybe get just a battery or two (or the S-350) for Edinburgh and Glasgow and use Pechora-2Ms for the rest.
MT-LB and a wheeled chassis like Belarusian stilet thus adding another missile to the system.
Actually I thought about the Belarussian Stilet as a wheeled army air-defence system to go along with Scotland's BTR-80 based formations; but then I thought that it would just add another chassis with completely different parts to the logistics train.
It's better to get a wheeled SAM based on the BTR-80 chassis, or something on a light-vehicle such as a Land Rover. But Russia doesn't offer anything like that.. other than maybe the Djigit system that can be fitted onto a pickup truck, but it's basically just a dual-MANPAD launcher with nothing more to it, a little too basic. So maybe look at some of the former Warsaw Pact/ex-Soviet countries for a solution instead.
Small number of pantsir for protection of naval base, air base, and head of state etc.
I don't think it's a cheap system, and being a SHORAD, it's only useful for point-defence of targets. Question is - what's so valuable in Scotland that you would want to defend? It doesn't any strategic naval bases for nuclear subs (well it does now but won't if Britain leaves), anything of the sort. Better to just have a air-defence network centered around Edinburgh.
A small number of mig-29M2 about 8 this would bolster air defence. The cheaper running yak -130 would do patroling etc and if and foreign aircraft was approaching the migs could be deployed could be used as a QRF
Could well be an idea. Question is always going to be about money and priorities though.
UAV and UCAV
Don't think Scotland needs UCAVs - it's not going to be fighting the Taliban after all, and if it still is going to be then the question arises why bother leaving Britain in the first place?
UAVs - certainly. Don't know which ones though, they're so many of them and new ones come out every year.
IL -38N (second hand ) could be used as cheaper alternative
The Il-38N will certainly be a cheaper alternative; if Scotland manages to buy a few of the ones that Russia will be retiring.
However how long has the Il-38 class been in service? Going on 45 years.
But the point isn't even that - they could all be well maintained and could serve out an additional 15 years or so.
The point is more that aircraft for these sorts of uses are bought for the long-haul; they're expected to last decades in the role. So why buy something 2nd-hand, only to replace it a little later on? Better buy new and modern and be assured that they'll continue to serve and have upgrade potential for a long time.
An-140 (Russian built) and/or An-32 if it's still available to buy (ukrainian built)
An-140 could be a decent idea actually but when it comes to Ukrainian products their future is a little vaporous for the moment. Even if they build you the stuff on time - what about parts, what about future upgrades?
Two il-76 (refurbished)
Good idea. Buy some old ones refurbished. No need for the Il-476.
Two mi-26 would be ideal due to the sheer number of islands majority without runway.
Scotland has a lot of islands. But what would you need to get to them with a Mi-26 that a Mi-17 wouldn't be able to deliver?
Ansat and ansat 2RC this would fulfil light transport and allow 2RC as recce/light attack and possibly one or two could be situated on a frigate.
Ka-27M and PS (S&R) /transport for frigate and naval operations. (Refurbished)
I don't think Scotland even needs frigates, I'll get onto its naval force in a bit - but the helicopters it will have on its corvettes would be better reserved for something like ASW or AWACS, or light transport. Modular Ka-226s would do all these jobs.
And Ka-226s can also be used in the light-transport role on land too. IMO this is very much an underrated modular little helicopter.
I'm not sure what the opinions on the Ansat are. Last I heard of them the RuAF was still having issues with its Ansat-Us.
The Ansat-2RC can actually be better suited for Scotland in the CAS role than something heavy like the Mi-35. But they existed only as prototypes and 10 years ago at that. And since Scotland will get Mi-17s anyway, Mi-35s have a lot of commonality of parts and mechanics with them.
Bdrm-2 with Azerbaijan upgrade to Zdkm and possibly anti tank version with metis or konkurs
(Second hand upgraded )
Sure, especially an ATGM-version of the BRDM would be very mobile and quick and can be used in both wheeled and tracked formations without an extra logistical footprint; because you'll have BRDMs in both anyway as recon vehicles.
Probably a better idea than having seperate tracked and wheeled ATGM vehicle versions.
Two battalions with tigr some armed with metis (am sure it wouldnt be hard to maje a version) and gibka-s or zu-23m1. Bpm-97 and bulat could also be used if they wanted cheaper.
If Scotland wants Tigrs then we can ditch the idea of a BTR-80 based formation and just use Tigr and Tigr-related chassis for things like APCs, Medevac, ATGM (Kornet-D), EW, recon vehicles, UAV launchers and air defence (Gibka-S).
And you know that's certainly an idea.. but I think it will all cost rather a bit more.
BTR-80s can be had for cheap, BRDM-2s can be had for cheap, and for the lightest vehicles - something like Range Rovers or Land Rovers would already be well known by Scottish mechanics and have plenty of spare parts for even among civilian garages. Even if the British Army doesn't so much as leave Scotland a spare wheel when it vacates the country; it would still make more sense to often use British and European equipment in non-sensitive areas, even if Scotland switches to becoming a hardcore Russian ideological ally, and even if it has to buy that equipment anew.
It's better to just equip your (highly-trained) troops with something modern; it won't cost much more. The RPG-7V has got modern rounds but they're inevitably limited in range due to the limited diameter of the tube.
And second hand upgraded BM -21 (about 6/
Sure, why not.
The last time independencewas mentioned the Scottish Government produced a paper on the subject which to be honest wasn't very detailed and wasn't great. But the budget was £1.5-2bn
Or $2.08- 2.77bn Which isn't bad
Keep in mind that if the British go for a 'hard divorce' and don't actually leave Scotland a single thing; then Scotland will have to create and equip a military literally right from zero, and in that case it would be quite justified in having a much higher GDP expenditure on military needs than normal for the first 2-3 years or so; like at 8% or so.
Last edited by flamming_python on Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:14 pm; edited 1 time in total