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    UFOs & Extraterrestrial Life

    starman
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    Post  starman on Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:52 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    The "War of the Worlds" by G. Wells won't happen.

    Of course not. The '53 movie was good in some ways but the ending was ridiculous, in more ways than one...
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Apr 03, 2020 5:13 am

    Doubtful. At Jupiter's distance insolation is a tiny fraction of what we receive. And unless the organism is at the top of the atmosphere, it would be reduced even further.

    Yeah, of course.... in the entire universe all Jupiter sized gas giants are always the same distance from their star as Jupiter is in our star system... except several gas giants have been detected moving around their stars in closer orbits than earth to our sun...

    Do you think every other star in the galaxy is just a carbon copy of this star system?

    I doubt there's any need for such protection. Although reported humanoids tend to appear biological, I would assume they're a form of advanced AI/robots. That way they're immune not only to pathogens but calcium loss in low gravity, and probably other issues.

    If they are capable of interstellar travel and are advanced, then artificial gravity should solve problems with calcium loss... assuming calcium is part of their body structure in the first place.
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    Post  kvs on Fri Apr 03, 2020 5:27 am

    The show stopper for inter-stellar travel is the speed of light. That is why sci-fi comes up with deus ex machina solutions such as
    warp drive or wormholes or hyperspace or any cheat to defeat the speed of light barrier.

    Unlike the speed of sound, the speed of light is a barrier that cannot be crossed. Massive particles cannot be accelerated to and
    past the speed of light since it takes an infinite amount of energy to push v -> c. (Put another way, the ability to accelerate to
    c goes to zero as v -> c.) And at the speed of light, the mass is converted into photons if one could magically get v=c. Those
    photons do not interact to maintain whatever mass was there before (spaceship, human, air). So reaching v=c means dissociating
    into a photon gas.

    Traveling at some v close to c means that every atom or dust particle that collides with the space ship is catastrophic. Even in
    the "vacuum" of space the spaceship will ablate away.

    So there is a good reason we have no anal probing alien visitors and can't even pick up EM signals from distant civilizations.
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    Post  starman on Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:29 pm

    kvs wrote:
    So there is a good reason we have no anal probing alien visitors and can't even pick up EM signals from distant civilizations.  

    If legions of witnesses have been reporting UFOs and occupants for several decades, and there's some physical evidence, I think our present understanding of physics ought to be called into question instead of UFOlogy or ET. SETI btw always struck me as a poor approach. Considering we're mere beginners where civilization has existed only a few thousand years, it's silly to dismiss ET because there's little/no evidence he communicates like we do.
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    Post  starman on Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:34 pm

    GarryB wrote:Yeah, of course.... in the entire universe all Jupiter sized gas giants are always the same distance from their star as Jupiter is in our star system... except several gas giants have been detected moving around their stars in closer orbits than earth to our sun…

    I thought you were referring to Jupiter; you did use the term "sunlight" instead of "starlight."

    If they are capable of interstellar travel and are advanced, then artificial gravity should solve problems with calcium loss... assuming calcium is part of their body structure in the first place.

    Some ETs could be biological, but nonbiological creations would make things so much easier. No need for artificial gravity or other forms of costly life support.
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    Post  nero on Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:23 pm

    kvs wrote:So there is a good reason we have no anal probing alien visitors and can't even pick up EM signals from distant civilizations.

    It's fairly naive to believe we know how real physics work.

    With our current observations, it's impossible to go faster than the speed of light.
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Apr 04, 2020 6:46 am


    If legions of witnesses have been reporting UFOs and occupants for several decades, and there's some physical evidence, I think our present understanding of physics ought to be called into question instead of UFOlogy or ET. SETI btw always struck me as a poor approach. Considering we're mere beginners where civilization has existed only a few thousand years, it's silly to dismiss ET because there's little/no evidence he communicates like we do.

    If that is how we do things then money should be spent to find where Elvis is because lots of people claim to have seen him...

    I thought you were referring to Jupiter; you did use the term "sunlight" instead of "starlight."

    Sunlight is starlight.

    Some ETs could be biological, but nonbiological creations would make things so much easier. No need for artificial gravity or other forms of costly life support.

    Well it depends on their situation... are they slowly fucking up their own planet and can be satisfied with a few centuries of sending robot probes, or is their homeworld screwed and they need to find somewhere... in which they will be both looking and searching with optics and robots but also biologicals just to spread out and take your chances because they are getting desperate...

    The show stopper for inter-stellar travel is the speed of light. That is why sci-fi comes up with deus ex machina solutions such as
    warp drive or wormholes or hyperspace or any cheat to defeat the speed of light barrier.

    Unlike the speed of sound, the speed of light is a barrier that cannot be crossed. Massive particles cannot be accelerated to and
    past the speed of light since it takes an infinite amount of energy to push v -> c. (Put another way, the ability to accelerate to
    c goes to zero as v -> c.) And at the speed of light, the mass is converted into photons if one could magically get v=c. Those
    photons do not interact to maintain whatever mass was there before (spaceship, human, air). So reaching v=c means dissociating
    into a photon gas.

    Traveling at some v close to c means that every atom or dust particle that collides with the space ship is catastrophic. Even in
    the "vacuum" of space the spaceship will ablate away.

    So there is a good reason we have no anal probing alien visitors and can't even pick up EM signals from distant civilizations.

    Wouldn't you agree however that reality is stranger than that... and we actually already probably are travelling faster than the speed of light relative to the galaxies currently speeding away from us... also physics is quite amusing... the rules become absurd at the speed of light but not faster than the speed of light... as you get close to the speed of light the mass of your spaceship approaches infinite but then so does the mass of your fuel so if you have an enormous ramjet that collects particles in front of the ship and accelerate them as they go through the centre of the space craft leaving the ship faster than they entered...

    More importantly if you can create gravity waves and control gravity you can revert to a zero mass spacecraft for which the slightest push should sent it moving off in one direction or another at enormous speeds because acceleration is based on the force applied but also the mass of the projectile...

    Another issue is... would it be possible to accelerate up to the speed of light and then skip past it in a jump.

    To a layman like me it sounds absurd, but an expert like KVS knows how odd the universe is... electrons can't exist between the bands they exist around atoms in so when an atom is excited or energised and loses electrons they can move between shells... the first shell has up to two and the rest have up to 8 each, but even when losing or gaining stray electrons the electrons don't seem to be able to exist between the shells... so when they move they disappear from one shell level and appear in a different shell/level.

    Why not develop a ship that accelerates up to the speed of light and then jumps across without ever actually travelling AT the speed of light...

    Or am I being a prick... Twisted Evil
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Apr 04, 2020 6:47 am

    It's fairly naive to believe we know how real physics work.

    With our current observations, it's impossible to go faster than the speed of light.

    Lots of times in the past people have proclaimed we know everything there is to know and there are just some things we will never be able to do... so far they have been wrong.
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    Post  kvs on Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:12 am

    The "speed" of the expansion of the universal space-time manifold is not the same thing as the speed relative to any point on this
    manifold. That is where the whole warp idea comes from. You cheat the local speed of light limit by creating a space-time
    bubble that flows effectively faster than the speed of light. There are no such solutions of the Einstein equations and this
    sci-fi fiction will stay fiction.

    It is not easy to feel out the apparent contradiction of points separated by large distances flowing away from each other faster than
    the speed of light. But the trick is that this divergence has had billions of years to form and does not violate the speed of light
    locally and at any stage of the evolution (aside from the hyperinflation epoch). Stretching of the fabric of space-time is not related
    to our notion of speed/velocity. Speed is defined as motion relative to some local reference point at a given instant. A
    volume-proportional expansion of space-time is an accumulation of infinitesimal local volume divergences that are much slower than
    the speed of light. But they are all cumulative as far as we can tell. There does not appear to be any resistance to the expansion
    so there is no convergence happening.

    So if you could live forever and have magical shields on your infinite energy supply space-ship, you could fly near the speed
    of light and reach those distant galaxies traveling faster than light relative to your origin point. As you approach those targets
    after millions of years of travel, they are not traveling faster than the speed of light relative to you. And at no stage in your
    long journey do you have to exceed the speed of light to catch up to them. In other words, the road you are on is a conveyor
    belt that varies in its motion at every point. The "speed" of the conveyor belt is not related to the speed of your spaceship
    (there is no kinetic energy associated with it).

    Also, the divergence we have today even with the dark energy acceleration is small compared to the hyperinflation stage
    after the big bang. Current cosmological theories are not complete enough to really explain what happened. The most
    self-consistent theories are those that allow for the variation of G (the gravitational "constant") with time. Another
    view is that the speed of light was faster in the past and has gotten much slower.
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    Post  starman on Sat Apr 04, 2020 12:23 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Lots of times in the past people have proclaimed we know everything there is to know and there are just some things we will never be able to do... so far they have been wrong.

    Of course. It's naive to assume our understanding of physics is the last word. On a cosmic time scale, we're still beginners.
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    Post  starman on Sat Apr 04, 2020 12:33 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    If that is how we do things then money should be spent to find where Elvis is because lots of people claim to have seen him…

    Including Air Force pilots, professors and astronauts? Has he been seen on radar?

    Sunlight is starlight.

    But sunlight implies our planetary system where at Jupiter's distance light is far too feeble to be a worthwhile energy source.

    Well it depends on their situation... are they slowly fucking up their own planet and can be satisfied with a few centuries of sending robot probes, or is their homeworld screwed and they need to find somewhere... in which they will be both looking and searching with optics and robots but also biologicals just to spread out and take your chances because they are getting desperate…

    I very much doubt they are.
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:48 am

    Including Air Force pilots, professors and astronauts? Has he been seen on radar?

    And what religion have they chosen personally to believe... should we believe that too?

    Most religions don't allow you to believe in other religious beliefs so you normally have to pick one and they can't all be right, though they can all be wrong...

    Professional people can be mistaken or fooled... or wrong.

    But sunlight implies our planetary system where at Jupiter's distance light is far too feeble to be a worthwhile energy source.

    The word sunlight refers to the light of the local star. In our case our star is called Sol and we live in the Solar system, unfortunately we have used the term solar system to refer to a grouping of stars and their planets and dust and bits and bobs, but no matter which solar system you happen to be the light from the local star would be called sunlight... the word sunlight is not star specific... it refers to the light from a sun and the star in every planetary system is that planetary systems sun.


    I very much doubt they are.

    There could be 10,000 of them right now... for all we know the writer Terry Brooks might be right and in the future there might be primitive civilisations developing on the bones of ours thinking we are some ancient race that destroyed itself... they might even do a better job of caring about each other and the other species on the planet... they couldn't be much worse.

    I find it sad so many people pine for alien races when you look at how we treat each other and the animals and plants we have within our reach... there are about 5 million different species of life on this planet right now and 90% of all the species that have existed on this planet are extinct at this current time... maybe we need to sort our own shit out before sending out messages to tell other species how to find us...


    Yes... the "if you don't look after the toys you have you can't have any new expensive toys till you learn how to treat them with respect..." lecture... sniper
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    Post  starman on Sun Apr 05, 2020 12:38 pm

    GarryB wrote:And what religion have they chosen personally to believe... should we believe that too?

    I don't know what if any. These people were just reporting what they saw, and they were experienced observers.

    Professional people can be mistaken or fooled... or wrong.

    There have been so many reports from credible witnesses all over the globe of essentially the same kinds of things…and it's not just witness testimony. There is some physical evidence like landing traces, and some pics that have never been debunked.


    There could be 10,000 of them right now... for all we know the writer Terry Brooks might be right and in the future there might be primitive civilisations developing on the bones of ours thinking we are some ancient race that destroyed itself... they might even do a better job of caring about each other and the other species on the planet... they couldn't be much worse.

    I meant that a far advanced system could solve its own problems so they aren't coming here for solutions.


    maybe we need to sort our own shit out before sending out messages to tell other species how to find us…

    I think they know already. And we'll sort out the worst of our issues before we become spacefaring, just like they probably did.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:19 am

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    Post  GarryB on Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:47 am

    I don't know what if any. These people were just reporting what they saw, and they were experienced observers.

    You mean like the experienced intel services of the US that claim Iraq had WMDs or the experienced professionals that determined Dhouma was a chemical weapons attack and that Syria and Russia were to blame?

    Sometimes even expert observers have an agenda... or do what they are paid for...

    And also if you read their reports they rarely talk about aliens, more often they talk about lights or objects they can't explain...

    There have been so many reports from credible witnesses all over the globe of essentially the same kinds of things…and it's not just witness testimony. There is some physical evidence like landing traces, and some pics that have never been debunked.

    Could say the same about any religion on the planet...


    I meant that a far advanced system could solve its own problems so they aren't coming here for solutions.

    Don't know anything about them but when you go to new places and meet new life forms you are going to find new problems... many were there, but also many more are created when you meet...


    I think they know already. And we'll sort out the worst of our issues before we become spacefaring, just like they probably did.

    So you are going with the Star Trek theme of the Vulcans waiting for us to be ready... ironic because that was a rule broken so many times in the first series... they were revealing themselves as space travellers to all the aliens they came across if I remember correctly...

    Why would they care if we are ready or not... you don't ask a chicken if it is cooked yet... you stick a fork in it...

    When they arrive from their long trip here they will likely be hungry... a European would eat sheep and bulls but not horses or cats or dogs. Other cultures are less fussy and would be prepared to eat practically anything. English law does not even make eating human flesh illegal... it is only illegal if you killed the person first...

    Also related to this thread is this interesting report about a life form on this planet...

    https://www.rt.com/news/484973-deep-sea-bacteria-extraordinary-metabolism/
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    Post  starman on Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:40 pm

    GarryB wrote:You mean like the experienced intel services of the US that claim Iraq had WMDs….

    That's different. They were "under the gun" and had to go along with the agenda of their superiors. In contrast, there is next to no pressure or personal incentive to report UFOs or aliens, yet many credible witnesses--policemen, professors, pilots etc--have done so.

    And also if you read their reports they rarely talk about aliens, more often they talk about lights or objects they can't explain…

    Still highly suggestive of ET and credible witnesses have reported occupants as well as craft.

    Could say the same about any religion on the planet…

    Na, the "resurrection" was initially claimed by illiterate peasants from Galilee, not educated people, and there's no physical/archeological evidence supporting christian claims.

    Don't know anything about them but when you go to new places and meet new life forms you are going to find new problems... …

    I don't believe stories about aliens coming here to harvest our genes for their longterm survival.

    So you are going with the Star Trek theme of the Vulcans waiting for us to be ready…


    Not just waiting for us to be ready--to accept their reality--but furthering the process.
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Apr 07, 2020 4:11 am

    That's different. They were "under the gun" and had to go along with the agenda of their superiors. In contrast, there is next to no pressure or personal incentive to report UFOs or aliens, yet many credible witnesses--policemen, professors, pilots etc--have done so.

    Well first of all lets be clear, only a UFO nut would claim every light in the sky that can't be explained is evidence of aliens.

    Most of the time it is objects or lights that these people could not understand or explain, that does not make them aliens.

    These people probably watch movies and read sci fi books and have all sorts of shit in their brains... did you know that after the first movie depicting the so called Grey aliens instances of reports of aliens that looked like Greys increased dramatically... what does that tell you...

    Still highly suggestive of ET and credible witnesses have reported occupants as well as craft.

    People are highly suggestable... if you put two buttons from a coat on a table in front of a human being side by side and then put a rubber band below it and make them symmetrical... the vast majority of humans will say they see a face formed with the two buttons as eyes and the rubber band as a mouth... but is it really a face? Can those buttons see.... can that rubber band speak... is there an alien under the table looking up at you?

    Pattern recognition creates such errors, and of course anyone can make a mistake that Alien chasers reinforce with their shit.

    Na, the "resurrection" was initially claimed by illiterate peasants from Galilee, not educated people, and there's no physical/archeological evidence supporting christian claims.

    Christianity is but one religion... how many of them stand up to real scrutiny?

    Same with claims of Aliens I am afraid.

    Statistics alone suggest there should be aliens you would have to be very self centred to believe we are alone or even the centre of the universe...

    I don't believe stories about aliens coming here to harvest our genes for their longterm survival.

    If they are smart enough to travel between the starts then they should be able to manipulate their own genes which should be totally different from ours anyway... they could just as easily be wanting the genes of a turtle or a horse or a spider.

    Not just waiting for us to be ready--to accept their reality--but furthering the process.

    Hey that is a nice fantasy... why not... it is no different from the idea of heaven and hell and a christian god that demands faith without any evidence on the word of your fellow man who he made flawed and prone to corruption... if it helps you sleep at night and you can ignore the obvious problems with it then you go ahead.

    Sadly the truth is more mundane... there is no intelligent design, life was created by mixing chemicals naturally and required several billion years to get the right chemical set in place... and it was simply a case of mass production and high turn over that led to mutation and error slowly resulting in more viable life forms... to date we are what we are and we need to sort our own shit out and not hope that some benevolent alien or god will rescue us and make things better... we need to realise this is it and treat others with respect and try to make the best of it for everyone...

    Or god did it all and we are but pawns...
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Tue Apr 07, 2020 5:08 am

    If they are smart enough to travel between the stars then they should be able to manipulate their own genes which should be totally different from ours anyway...
    they may be related to us-if we were created by them from apes- & could need our genes to improve us further or their own genetics, like when certain dog breeds were mated with wolves & jackals to improve them.
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    Post  starman on Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:41 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    they may be related to us-if we were created by them from apes-….

    I believe in UFOs and ETs but we shouldn't see their hand in everything. ET is not needed to explain human origins, considering that we know of Homo habilis and Hiomo erectus. If external intervention is need to explain the rise of sentient species, where did the first intelligent ETs come from?
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    Post  starman on Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:57 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Well first of all lets be clear, only a UFO nut would claim every light in the sky that can't be explained is evidence of aliens.

    Most of the time it is objects or lights that these people could not understand or explain, that does not make them aliens.

    But even trained observers, those who know better than to mistake Venus, a plane etc for something truly unexplained (in prosaic terms) have reported UFOs.


    These people probably watch movies and read sci fi books and have all sorts of shit in their brains... did you know that after the first movie depicting the so called Grey aliens instances of reports of aliens that looked like Greys increased dramatically... what does that tell you…

    In fact many UFO even occupant reports come from those who were previously indifferent even skeptical.


    People are highly suggestable... if you put two buttons from a coat on a table in front of a human being side by side and then put a rubber band below it and make them symmetrical... the vast majority of humans will say they see a face formed with the two buttons as eyes and the rubber band as a mouth... but is it really a face? Can those buttons see.... can that rubber band speak... is there an alien under the table looking up at you?

    Laughing Witnesses are not that stupid. Many reports are about interaction not just sightings.



    Christianity is but one religion... how many of them stand up to real scrutiny?

    Same with claims of Aliens I am afraid.

    No, apples and oranges. Religious people believe without any real evidence. In contrast, not so many people believe in UFOs despite a plethora of evidence, and not just witness testimony.

    Sadly the truth is more mundane... there is no intelligent design, life was created by mixing chemicals naturally and required several billion years to get the right chemical set in place... and it was simply a case of mass production and high turn over that led to mutation and error slowly resulting in more viable life forms…

    True.

    to date we are what we are and we need to sort our own shit out and not hope that some benevolent alien or god will rescue us and make things better...


    I never said ETs would solve our problems, just that people in the future would be more used to the idea they're here hence more ready for open contact.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Wed Apr 08, 2020 6:36 pm

    ET is not needed to explain human origins, considering that we know of Homo habilis and Hiomo erectus. If external intervention is need to explain the rise of sentient species, where did the first intelligent ETs come from?
    They preceded Homo Sapiens & were not suitable to ETs as workers & servants.
    The first intelligent ETs evolved on a planet capable of producing more superior (God-like to us) humanoid life forms than the Earth.
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:05 am

    they may be related to us-if we were created by them from apes- & could need our genes to improve us further or their own genetics, like when certain dog breeds were mated with wolves & jackals to improve them.

    The Stargate theory... benevolent or not benevolent aliens seeding the galaxy with humans... how ego centric... what makes you think they would settle for a human body... so fragile and short lived... it helps when it comes to trial an error mutation and environmental effect evolution, but if you were seeding a species... hang on... why piss around making half breeds and risking all the best stuff might be lost through natural selection... the apes might not find the upgrade attractive and those modified might die alone and end their gene line... would make more sense to leave a group of genetically diverse types to grow a population from... and perhaps a few with their aging gene turned off... why would you want them to get old and die for... you are making the design and it should be possible to make it pretty good.

    But even trained observers, those who know better than to mistake Venus, a plane etc for something truly unexplained (in prosaic terms) have reported UFOs.

    the human brain is a complex sack of chemicals and electrical impulses... we know they can be wrong... anyone can be wrong...

    In fact many UFO even occupant reports come from those who were previously indifferent even skeptical.

    A bit of trauma or family tragedy can spontaneously create a born again christian or jehovahs witness... and the reverse is true as well... many lose religion when the going gets really tough... I believe they call it life changing... and it certainly is.

    The lady who used to live next door told me she found religion when she was very young... she was at the beach and lost her keys... she spent hours looking for them and then in desperation she prayed... when she finished promising to be more religious she said she looked down and there they were. She had no reason to lie of course... I am sure if she was trying to get me to join it would have been a much more exciting story... the point is that she believed in divine intervention for the purpose of getting her to believe. I didn't ask what sort of god makes you lose your keys to get you to join the faith, but I didn't bother... she was happy.

    Witnesses are not that stupid. Many reports are about interaction not just sightings.

    Nothing to do with stupidity... imagine a child that did not recognise any face except their mothers and didn't understand what other people were because they didn't look like her mother... Not just humans... newly hatched chicks had the cardboard outline of a hawk moved over them and they all cowered... recognising it as being a threat. Genetic memory.

    Human beings have enormous potential for error correction... when you see a piece of text as an adult you read by word shape and not by looking at each letter and spelling out each word. That is why all capital letters is harder to read because there is no word shape any more. There are plenty of emails around where the first and last letters in each word is correct but the rest of the letters are jumbled but you can still read it because it has the same word shape as the real words. Many typing errors are created by the brain correcting what it sees rather than looking at what is there... double the is the worst... a the at the end of a line and another at the start of the next line if often missed because your brain realises there should only be one...


    I never said ETs would solve our problems, just that people in the future would be more used to the idea they're here hence more ready for open contact.

    And what happens if we are not ready for contact? How can you even determine whether they are ready or not? Besides who makes the decision?

    Maybe what we really need right now is contact so we can stop with the petty infighting and abusing this planet...

    The first intelligent ETs evolved on a planet capable of producing more superior (God-like to us) humanoid life forms than the Earth.

    First of all if they did then where are they? Why interbreed if they are so fantastic... why not keep pure... surely if they are spreading their dna through the galaxy it would be important to have enough diversity on board to avoid the perils of inbreeding. Second... how do you even know, and more importantly how did they know that we would be like after 2 million years of breeding?

    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:32 am

    benevolent or not benevolent aliens seeding the galaxy with humans...
    not seeding the galaxy with humans, only their or new star system. hybrids would be less fragile & be longer lived. or they could just work on improving us for their own benefit- we can only guess what that would entail.

    First of all if they did then where are they?
    perhaps they already destroyed themselves or found a better planet to call home.

    Why interbreed if they are so fantastic...
    their might have DNA deteriorated & needs new material; crossbring produces more genetic diversity; inbreeding less.
    why not keep pure... surely if they are spreading their dna through the galaxy it would be important to have enough diversity on board to avoid the perils of inbreeding.
    Pure=inbreeding.
    Egyptian & European royal families were marrying within themselves & got deformed Akhnaten & hemophiliacs. The same with American Mormons- all men now have unusually large heads.

    Second... how do you even know, and more importantly how did they know that we would be like after 2 million years of breeding?
    they found apes here, genetically modified them, & produced us. Now they &/ others conduct hybridization, possibly to help them better rule us later. Religions they created/inspired were enough but now science/humanism largely replaced it & we got ungovernable, to the point that we may destroy our planet & civilization.
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:52 pm

    perhaps they already destroyed themselves or found a better planet to call home.

    Sorry.... what? The earth is ideal... abundant water and food and air and at the time no intelligent species that threatens their existence with technology or weapons... compare earth with any other rock in this solar system and it is pretty clear life is abundant here for a reason... and that is before we polluted it...

    their might have DNA deteriorated & needs new material; crossbring produces more genetic diversity; inbreeding less.

    We will be gene splicing and interfering with nature well before we travel between stars... if they come from a different planet their DNA will be different at a fundamental level because we wont share any ancestor history at all... hell we have more in common with Spiders than we will have with any alien, but even today scientists are splicing spider dna with sheep to improve wool quality and strength... and talk of apes is silly... 2 million years ago apes and monkeys and humans didn't even exist. The animal we evolved from existed in to humans and apes and monkeys... we didn't evolve from monkeys and apes they are our cousins... we share ancestry and in terms of DNA we are only slightly different from apes... 2-3 percent different, but then we are probably 30 percent the same as worms and spiders... because a billion years ago we had a common ancestor with them too.

    Pure=inbreeding.

    Yeah, but what is the point of manipulating the genes of an animal to make it better if you then leave it to breeding and natural selection and dumb luck to determine what genes survive to be passed on to the general population?

    Unless they upgraded the entire herd chances are only a small percentage of the population could develop the enhanced genes... turning off the aging gene... a bit like a vampire able to live for tens of thousands of years could ensure the right breeding takes place and bad genes are selected out of the species and the good features are kept.

    Egyptian & European royal families were marrying within themselves & got deformed Akhnaten & hemophiliacs. The same with American Mormons- all men now have unusually large heads.

    Which is why manipulating the herd with advanced genes is unreliable because diversity keeps them alive and healthy but diversity introduces weakened genes that could be passed on instead of the strong genes.

    This is not intelligent design... people see survival of the fittest and thing only the strong survive, but they forget politics and greed and avarice... the strong can be stabbed in the back by a jealous rival... the strong can lead his men into a trap and be slaughtered before passing on his genes... if only the strongest survived then the Dinosaurs would still rule the earth because there is no way a human could defeat a big dinosaur...

    Fortunately for us a combination of things took care of them for us... including climate change... it was a lot hotter back then... perhaps climate change will promote the development and growth of large lizards... maybe the Japs are right and Godzilla is the inevidible outcome of radiation and pollution we have punished this planet with the last few decades...

    they found apes here, genetically modified them, & produced us. Now they &/ others conduct hybridization, possibly to help them better rule us later. Religions they created/inspired were enough but now science/humanism largely replaced it & we got ungovernable, to the point that we may destroy our planet & civilization.

    The Apes arrived when we arrived... they are our cousins... we have a common ancestor, which you are suggesting were modified to create us as opposed to apes and monkeys which were the other evolved branches of that line.

    Have to ask though... what amazing thing separates us from apes and monkeys that for you requires gene splicing to believe it happened... as opposed to blind luck.

    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu Apr 09, 2020 7:24 pm

    The earth is ideal... abundant water and food and air and at the time no intelligent species that threatens their existence with technology or weapons...
    they came here to mine gold, etc., not to resettle. Then some of them took human females & produced "demigods"- read the relevant Sumerian texts elements of which r incorporated into the Book of Genesis.
    if they come from a different planet their DNA will be different at a fundamental level because we wont share any ancestor history at all...
     
    if Earth was seeded with organic molecules & bacterial life by comets & Nibiru's moon colliding with it, then all life on both have common ancestors or at least related.
    2 million years ago apes and monkeys and humans didn't even exist.
    monkeys and humans share a common ancestor from which both evolved around 25 million years ago. ... Similarly, the fossil record has identified ancestors common to both humans and monkeys, such as an as yet unnamed primate fossil from Myanmar found in 2009 and dated as living around 37 million years ago. ..Based on the similarities and differences between the two types of DNA, scientists have estimated that humans and rhesus monkeys diverged from their common ancestor 25 million years ago.
    ..Chimps and humans share between 98 to 99% of DNA suggesting that we shared a common ancestor around 6 million years ago.

    https://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2011/10/04/3331957.htm

    So the 1st monkeys appeared 25M, & Chimps which r apes 6M  y.a.
    The Apes arrived when we arrived...
    Viewed zoologically, we humans are Homo sapiens, a culture-bearing upright-walking species that lives on the ground and very likely first evolved in Africa about 315,000 years ago.
    https://www.britannica.com/science/human-evolution

    From the above, 6M-315K=5,685M years separates apes from 1st humans. In other words, we arrived long after the 1st apes appeared.
    we share ancestry and in terms of DNA we are only slightly different from apes... 2-3 percent different,..
    that's why it wasn't that hard for aliens to give a certain specie of apes those 2-3% to make them more similar to them.
    http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20170517-we-have-still-not-found-the-missing-link-between-us-and-apes

    It wasn't found so far because it doesn't exist!
    Yeah, but what is the point of manipulating the genes of an animal to make it better if you then leave it to breeding and natural selection and dumb luck to determine what genes survive to be passed on to the general population?
    those hybrids &/ their descendants r kept or re-abducted to continue the process of refinement. Nothing is left to chance.
    Have to ask though... what amazing thing separates us from apes and monkeys that for you requires gene splicing to believe it happened...
    more brain power, less physical strength, & submissiveness to superiors. Non-primate animals r well adapted & don't need religions, gurus, Popes, Patriarchs, & royalty to rule over them. Factions of aliens needed human laborers, soldiers & female companions to make their stay here easier; over time, we multiplied & had to be given civilization so we could organize better & survive on our own.


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:31 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : add link)

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