Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 9470
    Points : 9552
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Infantry Mobility Vehicles - Page 15 Empty Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:31 pm

    GarryB wrote:Yeah, not sure why you think a helicopter would be safer than an Il-476 for delivering vehicles... the Il-476 can carry 3-4 at a time at about 800km/h at an altitude well above small arms fire range.

    I really don't think flying around with a helicopter carrying a vehicle slung underneath is a good idea... they are slow and don't have fantastic range and would be a rather easy target even for a HMG...

    Il-476 is more expensive, takes more time to get ready and fixed with aircraft are operated by VKS

    VDV wants it's own fleet

    Parachuting is going out of use and VDV doesn't want to follow it

    And before you guys start praising everything that Russia currently does keep in mind that it's VDV themselves who are looking to add helicopters
    Hole
    Hole

    Posts : 3243
    Points : 3243
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 44
    Location : Merkelland

    Infantry Mobility Vehicles - Page 15 Empty Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  Hole on Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:40 pm

    You wont find a faster rapid reaction force somewhere on this planet then the VDV.

    If parachuting is becoming obsolete then the western method of sending Marines somewhere and let them swim to the beach in some boats is obsolete for decades.

    The VDV already has vehicles that can be airlifted by the Mi-8 as was shown in the large maneuvers in the last few years. The Strela will just be better armored. And they have the Mi-26 which can lift heavy vehicles.

    Even a new designed helicopter will only have a radius of action of 500 - 600km. Planes are faster and can fly further.

    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 26179
    Points : 26725
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Infantry Mobility Vehicles - Page 15 Empty Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:31 am

    Il-476 is more expensive, takes more time to get ready and fixed with aircraft are operated by VKS

    More expensive and also vastly more capable.

    With minor modifications they could be outfitted as water bombers or cargo transports that could cover enormous areas very quickly.

    Helicopters are expensive to operate and terribly vulnerable to small arms fire... you can't fly nap of earth low level evading flight with a 5 ton weight hanging under you on a wire.

    VDV wants it's own fleet

    Of course they do... no emergency rescue service wants to rely on the local bus company for their supply ambulances...

    Parachuting is going out of use and VDV doesn't want to follow it

    Hahaha... really... so they are going to ditch all those brand new BMD-4s they are putting in to service?

    Being able to move over large obstacles is what it is about... having a few helicopters to move force components quickly would be useful but the bulk of the forces going by aircraft is just more efficient and fast.

    They might want a few groups that are heli mobile, but they are not and have never said they are going to an all helicopter force.

    And before you guys start praising everything that Russia currently does keep in mind that it's VDV themselves who are looking to add helicopters

    They are also in the process of replacing their older BMDs with new vehicles... including some ones that even an Mi-26 would struggle to carry...

    Planes are faster and can fly further.

    And more importantly they can get you to your landing zone faster and in a bigger group... which is rather important if the enemy decides to do something about it...

    Il-476s are getting missile defence equipment and will operate at an altitude where only some MANPADS could reach... and landing by parachute is probably not much more dangerous than landing on a beach... both are dangerous of course... but the whole point of having armoured vehicles is that you can be dropped out in the middle of nowhere where there will be very few enemy forces and even fewer air defence units. Once on the ground and formed up you then head to the target... most often a rear area airfield that you can then take relatively easily because it will be set up to defend from an air attack rather than a ground force attack. They don't have the most heavily protected vehicles but they are fast and mobile and have excellent fire power and optics and communications... once the airfield has been taken you can then use those Il-476s to land more armour... heavier armour... including Armata or Kurganets or Boomerang based vehicles to secure the airfield and expand the bridgehead.

    There might be situations where a helicopter based force could be used but the logistics would be a nightmare... they would need enormous numbers of helicopters... both transports and of course gunship support helicopters too... that would be super expensive... except for making a much smaller force mobile like a VDV spetsnaz team of 50-100 troops... you would probably get 6 troops into each vehicle so 10 to 20 transports and probably 40-60 attack helicopters for escorts... one Mi-26 can be used to set up a helicopter base anywhere they want... they tested that... so even for a small force you are going to need a hundred helicopters and that is ignoring supplies and weapons and equipment and also jammers and air cover...
    magnumcromagnon
    magnumcromagnon

    Posts : 6177
    Points : 6328
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Infantry Mobility Vehicles - Page 15 Empty Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sat Jul 18, 2020 4:19 am

    Let's be honest here, this new Strela vehicle at best will only hold a niche roll, probably to enhance light-recon units like forward observers with the command to not engage OPFOR directly.

    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 9470
    Points : 9552
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Infantry Mobility Vehicles - Page 15 Empty Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Jul 18, 2020 1:19 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:Let's be honest here, this new Strela vehicle at best will only hold a niche roll, probably to enhance light-recon units like forward observers with the command to not engage OPFOR directly. ...

    Nobody is expecting it to be anything more

    Why deliver a unit with a helicopter and then leave them to hike on foot when you can drop armoured vehicle for them in the same package?

    Same goes for any light unit, this thing offers far better protection than Toyota Hilux or GAZ Patriot

    I will never understand why people insist that military should have limited choice of vehicles or equipment, Soviet Army had that and they turned out to be trash (to surprise of absolutely no one)

    If you can give troops something better then do it

    We had this same argument when they started buying ATVs, snowmobiles and pick-ups



    TheArmenian
    TheArmenian

    Posts : 1886
    Points : 2037
    Join date : 2011-09-14

    Infantry Mobility Vehicles - Page 15 Empty Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  TheArmenian on Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:29 pm

    It is to replace the UAZ light vehicle that has no armor protection.

    I guess the army did not like the SKORPION which was intended to replace the UAZ. This new STRELA looks like a better choice.
    magnumcromagnon
    magnumcromagnon

    Posts : 6177
    Points : 6328
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Infantry Mobility Vehicles - Page 15 Empty Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:05 pm

    Lasok vehicle concept, can be apparently transported by Mi-8/17's.

    Ultra-compact armored vehicle "Lasok 4" is created in Russia
    A compact armored vehicle "Lasok 4" is being developed in Russia, weighing only 2 tons. It easily fits inside military multipurpose helicopters Mi-8 AMTSh and export Mi-171Sh.
    Infantry Mobility Vehicles - Page 15 S1_d_850

    Sergei Tolmachev, director of the Innovative Chassis design center, told RG: Russian Weapons, the development took full account of the experience of various special operations carried out at different times during local conflicts.

    The airborne vehicles being developed are designed to perform tasks in difficult combat conditions, for example, in the mountains and in dense urban areas.

    The "Lasok 4" armored vehicle is based on the developments obtained earlier in the course of the creation of the "Locust" assault armored vehicle. The novelty differs from the original sample in a lighter chassis, a carrying armored hull and a low silhouette.

    As weapons, the use of 7.62 mm RPK, PK, Pecheneg machine guns and 12.7 mm Utes, Kord machine guns, which are installed behind the folding armored shields of the tower installation, are provided.

    The configuration of the hull is made with a spaced armor structure: rational corners of the armored hull provide effective protection even during shelling from the upper floors of buildings.

    The armor capsule has an anti-splinter lining from the inside, and the seats for the crew have an anti-traumatic design.

    Light combat platform - modular, on its basis it is possible to create various modifications, including amphibious ones.

    An interesting detail, some modifications of the armored vehicle in the autumn-winter period are envisaged to be "dressed" in rubber-metal tracks, this solution significantly improves the characteristics of cross-country ability.

    https://rg.ru/2020/08/17/sverhkompaktnuiu-bronemashinu-lasok-4-sozdaiut-v-rossii.html
    Isos
    Isos

    Posts : 6347
    Points : 6339
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Infantry Mobility Vehicles - Page 15 Empty Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  Isos on Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:26 pm

    Armored against arrows ?

    2 tons is almost a civilian car. No way they can give it any decent armor protection.


    Last edited by Isos on Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
    George1
    George1

    Posts : 15010
    Points : 15513
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Infantry Mobility Vehicles - Page 15 Empty Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  George1 on Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:39 pm

    Too funny Cool
    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 9470
    Points : 9552
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Infantry Mobility Vehicles - Page 15 Empty Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:48 am


    This is a joke, right? It has to be lol1

    magnumcromagnon
    magnumcromagnon

    Posts : 6177
    Points : 6328
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Infantry Mobility Vehicles - Page 15 Empty Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Tue Aug 18, 2020 5:19 am

    It looks like it can potentially be converted in to a UGV. As far as protection goes, I don't really see the 4 ton Strela being much better.
    Hole
    Hole

    Posts : 3243
    Points : 3243
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 44
    Location : Merkelland

    Infantry Mobility Vehicles - Page 15 Empty Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  Hole on Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:40 am

    Better then running around on foot and got no armor protection against bullets or splinters at all.
    The-thing-next-door
    The-thing-next-door

    Posts : 842
    Points : 890
    Join date : 2017-09-18
    Location : Uranus

    Infantry Mobility Vehicles - Page 15 Empty Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  The-thing-next-door on Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:17 pm

    Damn I would hate to have to be in that thing.

    What the hell is it supposed to do one it is on the ground?
    Rodion_Romanovic
    Rodion_Romanovic

    Posts : 1110
    Points : 1108
    Join date : 2015-12-30

    Infantry Mobility Vehicles - Page 15 Empty Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Tue Aug 18, 2020 3:07 pm

    Maybe it is an evolution of the concept of the Toyota pickup used by ISIS
    magnumcromagnon
    magnumcromagnon

    Posts : 6177
    Points : 6328
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Infantry Mobility Vehicles - Page 15 Empty Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Tue Aug 18, 2020 3:37 pm

    Russia’s High-Speed Amphibious Vehicle to Debut at Army-2020
    Infantry Mobility Vehicles - Page 15 1_1597758744

    Russia’s Baltic Machine-Building Company (BMK) will unveil the world’s first all-wheel high-speed amphibious vehicle christened “Drozd” during Army-2020 Forum to be held next week.

    Drozd is based on a modular platform of the same name. The vehicle can accelerate to 70 kmph on water and up to 100 kmph on land, Mil.Press FLOT reported Monday.

    Built from carbon fibre, the Drozd weighs 2 tons and can carry an additional weight of 1.5 tons. "Drozd" is powered by a 260 hp diesel engine weighing 120 kg.

    The vehicle’s hull is distinguished by mine protection and the ability to install light armor. The wheels are equipped with an on-the-go inflation system. Drozd can be armed with various weapons - from machine guns and combat modules to multiple rocket launchers.
    Infantry Mobility Vehicles - Page 15 2_1597758750

    Although US (Lockheed Martin, General Dynamics), UK (Gibbs) and China (Research Institute of Vehicles) have built amphibious vehicles, none of the foreign analogs have a "real" all-wheel drive with blocking center and cross-axle differentials.

    "The vehicle is designed modular, which makes it possible to create on its basis a line of amphibians for various purposes and carrying capacity," Sergey Tereshenkov, chief designer and head of BMK, noted. "Among them are options for the marines, the Navy, land force, coastal troops, reconnaissance forces, special operations forces, logistical support units, engineering troops (including for the guidance of pontoon crossings), medical services, etc. Also, the machine will find its use in other power structures: rescue, fire services and law enforcement agencies.”

    https://www.defenseworld.net/news/27668/Russia___s_High_Speed_Amphibious_Vehicle_to_Debut_at_Army_2020#.Xzv0fcBKiyo
    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 9470
    Points : 9552
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Infantry Mobility Vehicles - Page 15 Empty Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Aug 18, 2020 4:23 pm


    Double ROFL today lol1
    avatar
    william.boutros

    Posts : 133
    Points : 135
    Join date : 2015-08-13

    Infantry Mobility Vehicles - Page 15 Empty Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  william.boutros on Tue Aug 18, 2020 7:54 pm

    Isos wrote:Armored against arrows ?

    2 tons is almost a civilian car. No way they can give it any decent armor protection.

    It could be a 2 wheel vehicle Smile.
    miketheterrible
    miketheterrible

    Posts : 4811
    Points : 4789
    Join date : 2016-11-06

    Infantry Mobility Vehicles - Page 15 Empty Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Aug 19, 2020 5:02 am

    I think some design houses are throwing up as much as they can to see what sticks.

    They are wasting their money. Should be saved for making civilian goods then designing something good for military rather than just shitting out anything they can.
    flamming_python
    flamming_python

    Posts : 4026
    Points : 4112
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Infantry Mobility Vehicles - Page 15 Empty Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  flamming_python on Wed Aug 19, 2020 7:31 am

    Da faq is that MacGyver 70s contraption?
    magnumcromagnon
    magnumcromagnon

    Posts : 6177
    Points : 6328
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Infantry Mobility Vehicles - Page 15 Empty Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:06 am

    Strela

    George1 likes this post

    Isos
    Isos

    Posts : 6347
    Points : 6339
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Infantry Mobility Vehicles - Page 15 Empty Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  Isos on Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:06 am

    Tigr buggy
    Infantry Mobility Vehicles - Page 15 Egjkg610
    Isos
    Isos

    Posts : 6347
    Points : 6339
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Infantry Mobility Vehicles - Page 15 Empty Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  Isos on Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:21 pm

    Infantry Mobility Vehicles - Page 15 Egmdlr10
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 26179
    Points : 26725
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Infantry Mobility Vehicles - Page 15 Empty Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  GarryB on Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:38 am

    Ultra-compact armored vehicle "Lasok 4" is created in Russia

    The idea seems to be super light mobility that can be transported by a medium helicopter like a Hip.

    If you used ceramic armour around the crew compartment, and a bit more around a compact engine compartment... that is not a turret... I would think perhaps a RWS with a rifle calibre machine gun might be just as compact and light and also offer night and all weather fire power...

    I think it would be an interesting idea for a light patrol with perhaps one vehicle crew and two or three troops... especially if they are special forces... a sniper team for instance could use the vehicle for long distance mobility and high speed deployment after being dropped in the middle of nowhere this vehicle could offer excellent mobility and speed and weapon and ammo capacity... the vehicle could carry their ammo and packs while they carried just what they needed on them... with a remote weapon turret it could also provide flank fire support or cover their rear when in position... you could chuck a Verba or Igla-S in case of enemy aircraft.

    It does not need to be a front line super heavy vehicle... I would think an unmanned version that just carries extra fuel and ammo and equipment for a team could be useful too.

    Some of those sniper rifles they are coming out with are huge and have enormous range and heavy rounds so a support vehicle like this means the gun could be attached to the stabilised RWS and used with high power long range optics, or could be dismounted... but you have a small relatively light vehicle that would allow you to get the hell out of there fast with some protection.

    I think they would struggle to get something useful that has 4 or 6 dismounted troops, but something smaller that has a sniper team or a mobile MG team, or a Kornet EM team or an Igla-S or Verba team...

    If you think of them as being like those dune buggy type vehicles with no shells that are just metal bar structure with no protection from the weather or temperature or wind or any type of small arm or fragment, then light protection even just from the wind is a bonus... some sort of hybrid vehicle with electric drive most of the time and a tiny gas turbine to generate power when needed should actually be pretty clever...

    For hunting "scuds" these could have been very useful as they would offer awesome mobility for the spec ops teams and rather better protection than the old dune buggy style vehicles where light weight and mobility and speed and fire power are considered more important than protection.

    Edit: Note that ute above is nice but likely no armour and would not fit two in the back of an Mi-8...

    On good roads it should be fine, but different situations require different solutions...
    George1
    George1

    Posts : 15010
    Points : 15513
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Infantry Mobility Vehicles - Page 15 Empty Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  George1 on Sun Aug 30, 2020 12:43 am

    magnumcromagnon
    magnumcromagnon

    Posts : 6177
    Points : 6328
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Infantry Mobility Vehicles - Page 15 Empty Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Aug 30, 2020 3:14 am

    Buggy Strela
    Infantry Mobility Vehicles - Page 15 B10_d_850

    Sponsored content

    Infantry Mobility Vehicles - Page 15 Empty Re: Infantry Mobility Vehicles

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:11 am