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    History of Soviet Cold War Military Aircraft

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Jun 18, 2024 6:20 am

    As shown in the video above the undercarriage of the MiG-23 was quite astounding... they needed large diameter low pressure tires for operating on soft grass airfields and they wanted a good wide ground base with the wheels as far apart as possible for good stability, but of course you always want your main gear to fit into the smallest compartment as possible.

    The undercarriage of the Flogger series ticked every box and was ruggedly strong too... it looks like a rocket with its wings swept...

    History of Soviet Cold War Military Aircraft - Page 7 Mig23m10

    (Video I am referring to is on the previous page, post number 148 by Gomig-21).

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    Gomig-21
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    Post  Gomig-21 Tue Jun 25, 2024 4:47 pm

    Without looking it up, anyone know what this beauty is?

    History of Soviet Cold War Military Aircraft - Page 7 1716871937078-png

    History of Soviet Cold War Military Aircraft - Page 7 Il-102-image06

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    History of Soviet Cold War Military Aircraft - Page 7 Il-102-image04

    History of Soviet Cold War Military Aircraft - Page 7 OIP

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Tue Jun 25, 2024 4:50 pm

    Il-102 it competed against the Su-25 but lost badly as it was too heavy and very slow.

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    Gomig-21
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    Post  Gomig-21 Tue Jun 25, 2024 5:09 pm

    Mir wrote:Il-102 it competed against the Su-25 but lost badly as it was too heavy and very slow.

    How come I knew you were going to answer that not only correctly, but in record time also LOL!

    If there's any design that's pure Soviet ingenuity, that's it. Basically looks like a brick shithouse lol with WWII gunner themes mixed in and just pure, Russian ruggedness.

    And it's not like its replacement or winner lacked any of those attributes either, with the exception of the tail & rear-gunner. They clearly made the right choice.
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    Post  Mir Tue Jun 25, 2024 5:15 pm

    The Il-102 was based on a previous unsuccessful design but it was really interesting and it even had three internal bomb bays under each wing.

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    Post  Gomig-21 Thu Jul 11, 2024 1:30 am

    Listen to the sound of this pure Russian radial engine, looks to be a Shvetsov ASh-62 (a 9-cylinder radial from WWII.  I think this guy was milking the throttle body for the starting to make it a little bit more interesting lol.  It just has Soviet Russian beast written and sounding all over it.  ASh-82 was a 14 cylinder behemoth.  





    Russian radial engines are a type of aircraft engine with cylinders arranged in a circular pattern around the crankshaft. Here are some notable examples:


    ### Shvetsov ASh-62
    - **Configuration**: 9-cylinder radial
    - **Power Output**: Around 1000 horsepower
    - **Usage**: Used in transport and agricultural aircraft


    ### Shvetsov M-11
    - **Production Start**: 1923
    - **Configuration**: 5-cylinder radial
    - **Power Output**: 100-160 horsepower
    - **Usage**: Widely used in training and light aircraft

    ### Shvetsov ASh-82
    - **Production Start**: 1940
    - **Configuration**: 14-cylinder radial (double row)
    - **Power Output**: 1700-2000 horsepower
    - **Usage**: Used in many WWII Soviet aircraft like Lavochkin La-5 and Tupolev Tu-2

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Jul 11, 2024 9:19 am

    To be fair the Il-102 was a rather interesting design... it was supposed to have a forward firing 57mm or 45mm gun and had a twin 23mm cannon facing rear with a rear gunner operating it. It was huge and heavy but not bigger or heavier than the US A-10.

    The wings were thick and had internal bomb compartments for 250kg bombs to be carried internally. The engines were MIG-29 engines I believe which gave it decent thrust.

    The rear gunner and internal bomb locations and it was immediately ridiculed in the west as archaic but really in terms of performance it had many features better than the A-10... but its problem was that it was not better than the Su-25 which was lighter and fast and cheaper and had a smaller weapon load.

    The position of the front cockpit meant the pilot had a good view of the ground and the rear gunner position meant they often had better warning of incoming MANPADs from behind... the early model MANPADS home better going up a tailpipe rather than attacking from the front. There was talk of fitting rear firing guns on Hinds because the enemy would often fire at the aircraft after it had flown over their positions.

    Listen to the sound of this pure Russian radial engine, looks to be a Shvetsov ASh-62 (a 9-cylinder radial from WWII.

    You do understand that this engine evolved from the (licence produced) American Wright Cyclone engine?

    It was used in the An-2 after the war and the Polikarpov I-16 and I-152 before WWII.

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    Post  kvs Thu Jul 11, 2024 1:29 pm

    The IL-102 is a throwback to the propeller craft of WWII. It was out of place in the 1950s considering the jets emerging at the time.
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    Post  Gomig-21 Thu Jul 11, 2024 2:08 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    You do understand that this engine evolved from the (licence produced) American Wright Cyclone engine?

    Of course.  IIIR it was first fielded around 1937 IIRC or somewhere thereabouts.  It was also later license-built by China of course and Poland also built a variation of the ASh-62 which was still in production up until 2020 or thereabouts.  The difference between the Cyclone and the Shvetsov is the latter pushed 1000hp which was around 250 more hp than the Cyclone because it had a 2-staged supercharger and also a better air induction system.  Better breathing engine gave it 250 additional hp which is actually a huge amount and actually make quite a difference.  Hell you can even just see the power on that thing the way the mandrel is spinning once it gets going.  Imagine the force with prop blades on it!

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    The girth on this thing lol.

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    GarryB wrote:It was used in the An-2 after the war and the Polikarpov I-16 and I-152 before WWII.

    History of Soviet Cold War Military Aircraft - Page 7 Antonov-an-2-light-utility-agricultural-biplane-single-1000-hp-nine-c3bnmm

    If you've watch any of Jay Leno's garage stuff, aside from all his collectible cars, the more interesting stuff is the engines he's into and one of his prize possessions is the Merlin engine which we all know powered the Spitfire & P-51 Mustang.  There's a great video of him cranking it up for a bunch of visitors to his garage I won't post it since this is about Russian shtuff.  Needless to say, it's pretty impressive how that thing pushed 1,650 hp lol.  

    History of Soviet Cold War Military Aircraft - Page 7 Jay-Leno-Merlin-V12-01-1024x576
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    Post  GarryB Thu Jul 11, 2024 11:21 pm

    The IL-102 is a throwback to the propeller craft of WWII. It was out of place in the 1950s considering the jets emerging at the time.

    To be fair the job it is performing is not a supersonic jet zipping around at 20km altitude at mach 3 looking shiny and important.

    The cockpit design and shape of the nose is more about seeing things on the ground than flying fast because as was shown already when this was designed that the slower MiG-15 with heavy gun armament was a better CAS aircraft than the newer faster supersonic jets with smaller guns.

    Being able to carry lots of rocket pods and bombs and carrying a big gun is a good thing and its 7+ ton payload is closer to the A-10s payload than the Su-25s payload at the time.

    If it had been properly developed it would have had either a 45mm telescope cased auto cannon or a 57mm gun similar to the one being fitted to their new BMPs... we don't know if it would be the S-60 high velocity gun or the grenade launcher... I would say each would be effective, though the sabot of the APFSDS rounds of the grenade launcher might have been a problem... maybe MiG-29 like solid doors closing the air intakes while the gun fires might have been part of the solution...

    Being able to carry about three 250kg or 100kg bombs inside each wing plus three wing pylons for rocket pods and a cannon and it could have been rather well armed.

    AFAIK it used MiG-29 engines without the AB...

    I mean in an age where the new replacement for the F-22 is the F-15 and the replacement for the F-35 is the F-16 and F-18, maybe they should be looking at a cheap simple turboprop that is easy to fix in the field that uses helicopter engines or one sort or another...

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    Post  lancelot Fri Jul 12, 2024 12:02 am

    Illyushin was just lazy as heck. They simply dusted off the Il-40 design and made this piece of junk.
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    Post  Mir Fri Jul 12, 2024 9:37 am

    Don't know about lazy but he was certainly an eccentric fellow Laughing

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    Post  Mir Fri Jul 12, 2024 9:49 am

    An interesting fact around the An-2 is that it is the most produced transport aircraft in history with over 18 000 built!. It is also had the longest production run of any transport aircraft. Poland and China also produced the An-2.

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    The Mig-15 (also known as the Aluminum Rabbit) is the most produced jet in history - also numbering 18 0000+. Significant numbers were also produced in China, Poland and Czechoslovakia.

    History of Soviet Cold War Military Aircraft - Page 7 Mig15-12

    The Mi-8 - which is still in production - is not far behind at 17 000+. It is by far the most produced helicopter in the world.

    History of Soviet Cold War Military Aircraft - Page 7 Mi8t-c10

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    Post  GarryB Sat Jul 13, 2024 4:31 am

    Illyushin was just lazy as heck. They simply dusted off the Il-40 design and made this piece of junk.

    Something a critic would say.

    You can go revolutionary or you can upgrade an existing design further... the fact that he went for the latter is no great surprise.

    The plane probably met most of the criteria without being super expensive... with a 45mm or 57mm gun it probably would have had quite a decent effect on targets on the ground and with the capacity to carry bombs and rockets and shoot at things on the way in as well as on the way out it might not have been awful.

    The Su-25 was just better. Smaller lighter faster and probably cheaper.... right now the Il-102 probably would have had more growth potential, but who knows.
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    Post  Gomig-21 Sat Jul 13, 2024 4:25 pm

    Mir wrote:The Mig-15 (also known as the Aluminum Rabbit) is the most produced jet in history - also numbering 18 0000+. Significant numbers were also produced in China, Poland and Czechoslovakia.History of Soviet Cold War Military Aircraft - Page 7 Mig15-12

    Aluminum Rabbit, ey?  I never knew that, that's a pretty cool nickname for that puppy.

    It reminds me of quite the related historical event.  After the disaster that was the 6-day war of 1967, Egypt conducted the War of Attrition which was almost exclusively aerial in nature, interdiction after interdiction, interception after interception and dogfight after dogfight for 3 years, from 1968 to 1970 when finally, a ceasefire was put into place.  A lot of A2A kills from both sides but later both Arab air forces (Syrian & Egyptian) found out one of their major shortcomings was that bare aluminum, especially on their MiG-21s.

    They actually noticed 2 things; they would get spotted out of nowhere despite being below radar coverage or behind mountains at the same time, they were also noticing the Israeli Mirage IIIs from a distance when the sun would sparkle and reflect something fierce off of its own bare, metallic fuselage.  So they figured the same advantage/disadvantage was happening to them.  The irony.  At the time it was mostly the MiG-21PFM I believe.

    History of Soviet Cold War Military Aircraft - Page 7 Egypt-mig-21-e1381663440967-400x250

    Once they came to terms that it was a serious dead giveaway to the enemy, they decided to camouflage their aircraft and boy did they go nuts loool.

    History of Soviet Cold War Military Aircraft - Page 7 R.9f0a8f4774a20fca16332f4d78adfaa3?rik=ym2z7E80JWcU4A&riu=http%3a%2f%2fmakettinfo.hu%2fforum%2fupload%2f217.17.2_MiG-21RF_Egypt_2

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    And many more insane artistry patterns.  But the idea that the bare, shiny aluminum was a negatively impacting factor and even crazier is discovering that it worked both ways.

    Mir wrote:The Mi-8 - which is still in production - is not far behind at 17 000+. It is by far the most produced helicopter in the world.

    Even the United Nations peace-keeping forces use it. Seems to be the ultimate utility helo.

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    Gomig-21
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    Post  Gomig-21 Mon Jul 15, 2024 11:38 pm

    Legendary 17 with some great pyro nighttime effects.

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    Post  Mir Tue Jul 16, 2024 3:01 pm

    Naturally all the Soviet era swing wings have the same effect on me Laughing

    The father of Soviet variable geometry wing aircraft - the Su-7IG (Su-22I).

    History of Soviet Cold War Military Aircraft - Page 7 Z-su7i10

    The top of my list is a tossup between the Tu-22M and the Tu-160. I think for today I'll settle on the White Swan Laughing

    History of Soviet Cold War Military Aircraft - Page 7 Z-tu1610

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    Post  GarryB Wed Jul 17, 2024 4:09 am

    OK, I will create a new thread in a suitable section for shiny aircraft you can post non Soviet aircraft photos in...

    Moved here.

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