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    Indian Army (IA): Equipment and News

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:28 am

    Why can't they make in India weapons?

    Probably because for self defence you want the best you can afford, but if you demand to make them yourself you are paying top dollar for the privilege.

    If Russia imposed sanctions all the time on India then a secure source for parts makes sense, but there is no such history with Russia.

    India is better off having a made in India drive for things that would be useful for the average indian and for India as a whole...

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    George1
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    Post  George1 Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:28 pm

    Ready for the first ten 155-mm self-propelled howitzers K9 Vajra-T for the Indian Army

    According to Indian sources, the first ten 155-mm / 52 self-propelled howitzers K9 Vajra-T, which are a "localized" variant of the well-known South Korean self-propelled gun, are prepared for the transfer of the Indian army to the Indian private group Larsen & Toubro (L & T) in Hazira (Gujarat) howitzer K9 Thunder. In fact, these ten systems were completely manufactured in South Korea by the Hanwha Techwin division of the South Korean corporation Hanwha, and at the L & T plant in Hazira, only their retrofitting was made.

    Indian Army (IA): Equipment and News - Page 7 5357880_original
    The first 155 mm self-propelled howitzer K9 Vajra-T (K9 Thunder) prepared by the Indian Army for the Indian Private Group Larsen & Toubro (L & T) in Hazira, Gujarat, April 2018 (c) www.facebook.com/IndianDefenceFacts

    The expected delivery of these K9 Vajra-T systems, apparently, will complete the painful process of choosing the 155-mm / 52 self-propelled artillery system by the Indian army on a tracked chassis that lasted about 25 years. These systems are the first to be supplied under the contract of the Ministry of Defense of India with the Larsen & Toubro group at a cost of 4,600 crore rupees (about 710 million dollars) for the delivery of 100 SPH Κ9 (with an option for another 50) concluded in May 2017.

    According to the contract, the first ten SPH Κ9 of Vajra-T are delivered from South Korea from Hanwha Techwin within 11 months of the signing of the contract, and the remaining 90 must be collected at the Larsen & Toubro facility in Hazira with a localization level of 50 percent. Deliveries of all 100 systems must be completed within 42 months (that is, by November 2020). It is claimed that L & T will manufacture a hull, a tower, an ammunition supply mechanism, a fire control system, a missile velocity measuring system, a WMD, air conditioning and fire fighting system within this production. Also, the Indian industry will supply the BEL FOG navigation system, the night vision thermal imaging system and the STARS-V Mk 3 radio communication system (in general, 13 Indian-made systems will be used). Thus, the rocking parts of the howitzer will probably be imported entirely from South Korea, and the engine and transmission from Germany. 12.7-mm machine guns NSV (probably meaning "Cord") will be imported from Russia. In April 2017, the Larsen & Toubro group signed a corresponding agreement with Hanwha Techwin on the licensed production of ACS K9.

    In October 2015, 155-mm / 52 self-propelled howitzer K9 of South Korean company Samsung Techwin (since 2016 passed under the control of Hanwha Corporation as Hanwha Techwin) was declared by the Ministry of Defense of India to be the winner of the process of choosing the self-propelled artillery system of this caliber for the Indian army. Samsung Techwin has acted in this tender since 2012 in partnership with the Indian group Larsen & Toubro. At the same time, it was claimed that at the final test ranges in India in Q9, K9 surpassed the Russian Mash-SM self-propelled howitzer 155 mm in its export performance as its main competitor.

    In total, the Indian army plans in the future to acquire up to 1,500 155-mm / 52 self-propelled howitzers.

    Indian Army (IA): Equipment and News - Page 7 5358556_original

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3154434.html

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    HUNTER VZLA
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    Post  HUNTER VZLA Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:59 am

    Indian Army rocket unit with Pinaka 214 mm and Grad 122 mm in the Thar Desert


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    George1
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    Post  George1 Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:08 pm

    India buys automatic rifles SIG Sauer SIG716

    According to Indian media, at the end of January 2019, Indian Defense Minister Nirmala Sithamaran approved 72400 SIG Sauer SIG716 automatic rifles (version SIG716 G2 Patrol) for the Indian army, patronized by NATO 7.62 x 51 mm. The procurement cost is estimated at about $ 72 million. The rifles will be purchased by the Ministry of Defense of India under the so-called accelerated procedure (Fast Track Procedure - FTP) with delivery within 12 months from the date of signing the contract (which is expected to be signed in mid-February) directly from the manufacturer - American company SIG Sauer Inc. (since 2000, the American SIG Sauer Inc. is a separate company from the German SIG Sauer GmbH, and the latter is no longer a manufacturer of small arms).



    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3521132.html
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:10 am

    India tries/fails to improve its special ops capability
    https://www.asiatimes.com/2019/05/article/india-tries-to-improve-its-special-ops-capability/
    George1
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    Post  George1 Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:35 am

    Indian Advanced Amogha-III Hand-Held Anti-Tank Missile System

    At the 11th International Exhibition of Land and Naval Arms DefExpo 2020, held on February 5-9, 2020 in the Indian city of Lucknow (Uttar Pradesh), the Indian state association Bharat Dynamics Limited (BDL) presented materials on the promising since 2017 Amogha-III portable anti-tank missile system, including a full-size missile prototype.

    Indian Army (IA): Equipment and News - Page 7 77820910

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3927518.html

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    George1
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    Post  George1 Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:49 am

    India urgently received 240 Israeli ATGM Spike LR


    In November 2017, I wrote about the cancellation by India of a practically signed $ 525 million contract with Rafael for the supply of Spike ATGMs and spoke in detail about the MPATGM (Man-Portable Anti-Tank Guided Missile) program of India in the framework of which this ATGM had to be purchased (321 complexes, 8.356 ATGMs for them, 15 simulators and related services). In late December 2017, Rafael received an official notification from the Government of India about the cancellation of the transaction.

    Many saw the reason for the abolition in the machinations of Americans trying to push India their FGM-148 Javelin. However, the real reason was the pressure of the Defense Research and Development Office of the Indian Ministry of Defense DRDO (Defense Research and Development Organization). DRDO argued that the Indian industry, with experience in creating ATGMs Nag and Anamika, will be able to create a lightweight ATGM 3rd generation in 3-4 years.

    Since 1988, Nag (Prospina) has been developed in 5 different versions: land transport, land for NAMICA ATGM (Nag Missile Carrier, on the BMP-2 chassis; apparently this is the 'Anamika' mentioned above), land portable, helicopter (Helina) and aviation. In most cases, we are talking about a heavy missile (43 kg, a range of 4 km in the land version), the land portable version (the so-called MPATGM, Man Portable Anti-Tank Guided Missile) is a smaller version of Nag with a mass of 14.5 kg and a range of 2.5 km (i.e. direct competitor to Spike-MR). Of all the options, only NAMICA ATGMs were adopted (443 missiles and 13 complexes were ordered, according to other sources, 300 missiles and 25 complexes, then another 15+ complexes are planned to be purchased). It was reported that mass production began at the end of 2019 and the supply of the first 40 missiles. MPATGM at the end of 2019 was still in trials.

    In addition to Nag in all its variants, Amogha ATGM is being developed in India. This missile has a maximum firing range of 2.5-2.8 km, options Amogha-I and Amogha-III (see details on bmpd). Amogha-I was first tested in 2015, Amogha-III is still under development and has not reached the test stage.

    Without Nag, Amogha and Spike, the situation with the ATGM of the Indian army is as follows:

    - 9M113 and 9M113M "Konkurs" (AT-5 Spandrel) - 15,140 missiles, for BMP-2 and complexes 9K113 "Konkurs" and 9K113M "Konkurs-M" (in 2019 a new batch was purchased for $ 110 million);
    - LAHAT - ATGM for tanks Arjun Mk-1/2;
    - 9M119 Svir (AT-11 Sniper) - ATGM for T-72 T-90 tanks;
    - 9M120 Ataka-B (AT-9 Spiral-2) -?;
    - 9K114 "Sturm" (AT-6 Spiral) - 800 missiles;
    - 9M133 Kornet (AT-14 Spriggan) - 250 launchers + 3,000 missiles;
    - 9M111 “Bassoon” (AT-4 Spigot) - 100 launchers (purchased in 1988-1990);
    - MILAN 2T - 4,100launchers + 30,000+ missiles.

    But the list above is not complete. There are also attack helicopters as part of the Indian Air Force. There are 15 Mi-35s, 22 AH-64E (I) (it is planned to buy another 6) and 8 HAL Rudra (total 16 ordered). Rudra will receive Helina, after completion of its development. Mi-35s use the Sturm-V (9M114 missiles) and Ataka-B (9M120 missiles mentioned in the list above); in 2019, an additional batch of these missiles for $ 29 million was urgently purchased. But for the AH-64E (I), Hellfire missiles are used, not mentioned above. With the first batch of 22 helicopters, India bought 812 AGM-114L-3 Longbow Hellfire and 542 AGM-114R-3 Hellfire II. For an additional batch of 6 AH-64E (I), it is planned to purchase 180 AGM-114L-3 and 90 AGM-114R-3.

    As for Spike, since the beginning of 2018, the issue of purchasing this rocket has been raised again and again:

    - 10.01.18 - it is reported that the Prime Minister of India, Narendra Modi, is weighing the cancellation of the decision to break the deal;
    - 01/17/18 - Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu during his 3-day visit to India confirmed the message of 01/10/18;
    - 03/07/18 - a report that a week earlier India had successfully tested the Nag rocket (the so-called Nag 190), which again called into question the possibility of resuming the deal;
    - 04/15/18 - reports of new US attempts to sell Javelin to India as an alternative to Spike;
    - 05/01/18 - India approved the purchase of 25 NAMICA and 300 Nag missiles; Nevertheless, we are talking about a rocket of a different class and this does not affect the purchase of Spike;
    - 06.24.19 - India again announces the rejection of a large-scale purchase of Spike in favor of the development of MPATGM.

    Despite the cancellation of the contract for $ 525 million, in April 2019, the Indian Army approved an urgent order for a small batch of Spike. Initially, it was about 12 launchers and 210 Spike MR missiles (2.5 km), then about 12 launchers and 240 Spike LR missiles (4 km). Apparently, the contract was signed at the end of June 2019, since it was about deliveries within 3 months from the date of the transaction. The first batch arrived in India at the end of September 2019. 02/06/20 Rafael confirmed the completion of the delivery, including 240 Spike LR missiles. Apparently, the value of this transaction amounted to $ 40 million.

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3932948.html
    George1
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    Post  George1 Sat Mar 21, 2020 1:38 pm

    03.19.20. The Indian Ministry of Defense officially announced that the Israeli company IWI will supply 16.479 Negev NG7 machine guns (7.62 caliber, chambered for 7.62 × 51 mm NATO) for the Indian armed forces. The transaction value is 117 million dollars. All machine guns will be released in Israel within 2 years. In India, a new machine gun will replace the PKM (chambered for 7.62x54R).

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3964893.html
    George1
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    Post  George1 Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:00 am

    Indian Army to get 156 additional BMP-2 ICVs


    India’s Ministry of Defence (MoD) has approved the procurement of 156 additional licence-built BMP-2 ‘Sarath’ infantry combat vehicles (ICVs) for the Indian Army (IA) from the state-owned Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) for INR11.25 billion (USD148 million).

    OFB spokesperson Uddipan Mukerjee told Janes on 31 May that once the order from the MoD is granted, Ordnance Factory Project Medak (OFPM) in southern India will begin manufacturing the amphibious platforms.

    Official sources said the MoD has indicated that OFPM, which has assembled and licence-built more than 2,500 units of the BMP-2 and the BMP-2K variant since 1987, will be required to complete delivery of all 156 ICVs within 24 months.

    The additional ICVs – each of which weighs 14.3 tonnes, is operated by a three-man crew, and is capable of transporting up to seven fully equipped troops – are expected to “fulfil the operational requirement for rapid deployment of the army’s mechanised units”, said the MoD.

    Each of the platforms has an operational range of 600 km and is capable of reaching a top speed of 65 km/h on roads, 45 km/h off-road, and 3.8 kt on water.

    Armament on these platforms includes a 2A42 30 mm dual-feed, fully stabilised cannon and a coaxial 7.62 mm PKT machine gun. Mounted on the turret roof is a 9Sh119M1 missile launcher for 9M113 Konkurs anti-tank guided missiles (ATGMs).

    The IA employs about 1,500 BMP-2/2Ks in assorted roles, including armoured ambulances, amphibious bulldozers, and engineer reconnaissance vehicles.

    Some ICV variants featuring a modified chassis have been fitted with Nag missile carriers (NAMICAs) capable of deploying up to six locally developed Nag ATGMs.

    https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/1fbb74f3-6a61-4608-925b-8faae236d493
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:13 pm

    View from Moscow: https://vz.ru/world/2020/6/25/1045947.print.html

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:29 pm


    Vinod DX9
    @VinodDX9
    ·
    7h
    #Breaking

    So according to reports #IndianArmy is given approval for emergency procurement of light weight tanks that can be deployed in high altitude conditions. IMO, Sprut SD will be procured as it is the only viable option. The 18T beast is equipped with 125 mm gun
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:48 pm

    03.19.20. The Indian Ministry of Defense officially announced that the Israeli company IWI will supply 16.479 Negev NG7 machine guns (7.62 caliber, chambered for 7.62 × 51 mm NATO) for the Indian armed forces. The transaction value is 117 million dollars. All machine guns will be released in Israel within 2 years. In India, a new machine gun will replace the PKM (chambered for 7.62x54R).

    Does that mean they are going to replace all the PKT machine guns as coaxial guns in all their Soviet armoured vehicles?

    That will cost a bit to change the optics for the range finder... the last time the Soviets changed coaxial guns it was changing the SG-43 for the PKT and they actually made the PKT barrel longer to match its ballistics to the older SG-43 machine gun so they didn't have to change the optics...
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    Post  Sujoy Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:39 pm

    DRDO carried out trials of the ATGM Dhruvastra-39 (previously called HELINA). This missile has a maximum range capability of 7.0 km in Lock On Before Launch (LOBL) mode and can engage targets both in direct hit mode as well as top attack mode and will arm the Indian Army's and Indian Air Force's Rudra and Light Combat Helicopter.

    https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1285796330787319808?s=20
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:45 pm

    Sujoy wrote:DRDO carried out trials of the ATGM Dhruvastra-39 (previously called HELINA). This missile has a maximum range capability of 7.0 km in Lock On Before Launch (LOBL) mode and can engage targets both in direct hit mode as well as top attack mode and will arm the Indian Army's and Indian Air Force's Rudra and Light Combat Helicopter.

    https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1285796330787319808?s=20

    So a system that can be easily defeated by +30 years old PPS, something the Chinese has had access to for many years, and could give to the Pakistani's if seen fit. The Russians have already proven the way to go is laser-beam riding like Kornet, Refleks, etc.
    Sujoy
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    Post  Sujoy Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:25 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:So a system that can be easily defeated by +30 years old PPS, something the Chinese has had access to for many years, and could give to the Pakistani's if seen fit. The Russians have already proven the way to go is laser-beam riding like Kornet, Refleks, etc.

    Nothing state of the art about this missile. But, Laser beam riding also has its own set of issue. Radar tracking noise is the greatest contributor to beam-riding error. The effect of the radar-tracking dispersion on the accuracy of missile guidance will depend upon the judicious selection of bandwidths for the radar-tracking loop and the missile-control loop.

    Besides, a combination of Hard Kill, Soft Kill countermeasures can intercept beam riding ATGMs as well. The same sensors that track incoming shots at the vehicle can also paint a target on the shooter, allowing an immediate response from the crew. They can return fire, maneuver out of contact, activate slew-to-cue weapons and sensors, or call for fire support. Another hard kill method is - a detector identifies the threat and then launches a proximity fused mortar round at the target. The mortar blast defeats the threat with either an explosion or a blast pressure/blast wave that knocks the threat off course.

    Soft kill measures like infrared jammers, laser spot imitators, and radar jammers can also defeat an incoming beam riding missile.

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    Sujoy
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    Post  Sujoy Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:09 am

    GarryB wrote:
    Does that mean they are going to replace all the PKT machine guns as coaxial guns in all their Soviet armoured vehicles?

    That will cost a bit to change the optics for the range finder... the last time the Soviets changed coaxial guns it was changing the SG-43 for the PKT and they actually made the PKT barrel longer to match its ballistics to the older SG-43 machine gun so they didn't have to change the optics...
    No, the PKTs will remain where they are. The Negev GPMGs are for dismounted infantry & will replace the INSAS LMGs now in use. However, no new LMG has been offered by Russia yet.
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    Post  GarryB Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:59 am

    Soft kill measures like infrared jammers, laser spot imitators, and radar jammers can also defeat an incoming beam riding missile.

    No, no, and no.

    A laser beam riding missile consists of a launcher that has a very low energy laser beam that points the laser line of sight so the crosshair in the sight is where the centre of the beam is... place that on the target and launch the missile.

    Once the missile is in flight the missile looks back at the launcher and determines its own position within the beam so if it is low or high it climbs or descends until it is in the centre of the beam and it maintains that position until impact.

    An IR jammer can do what?

    A neither the missile nor the launcher are looking for a laser spot so last spot imitators are pointless, and no radar is involved so jam all you like.

    Without a wire to drag a laser beam riding missile is generally supersonic so you wont even hear it coming... and it does not climb up high in the air and make itself an easy target for any TOR batteries protecting the vehicles...

    And... why on earth are they firing that missile into the sea?

    What sort of accuracy and penetration data could they possibly get... and recovering components would be tricky... what if it veered off at the last second... what chance is there of recovering all the bits to find out what went wrong?

    How can they tell if they even hit the target?
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    Post  Sujoy Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:23 am

    GarryB wrote:No, no, and no.

    A laser beam riding missile consists of a launcher that has a very low energy laser beam that points the laser line of sight so the crosshair in the sight is where the centre of the beam is... place that on the target and launch the missile.

    Once the missile is in flight the missile looks back at the launcher and determines its own position within the beam so if it is low or high it climbs or descends until it is in the centre of the beam and it maintains that position until impact.

    An IR jammer can do what?

    A neither the missile nor the launcher are looking for a laser spot so last spot imitators are pointless, and no radar is involved so jam all you like.

    Without a wire to drag a laser beam riding missile is generally supersonic so you wont even hear it coming... and it does not climb up high in the air and make itself an easy target for any TOR batteries protecting the vehicles...
    So you are saying that there is no countermeasures against Beam Riding ATGMs?

    GarryB wrote:And... why on earth are they firing that missile into the sea?

    What sort of accuracy and penetration data could they possibly get... and recovering components would be tricky... what if it veered off at the last second... what chance is there of recovering all the bits to find out what went wrong?

    How can they tell if they even hit the target?
    The missile is fired towards the sea so that it falls in the beach. The missile falls in the beach (sand)
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    Post  Isos Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:07 pm

    So you are saying that there is no countermeasures against Beam Riding ATGMs?

    Smock screen, use your gun against the launcher, APS, hide from line of sight, use drones to spot atgm teams before you enter into an area.

    But you need first to detect it and like Syrian conflict showed it isn't really easy and even t-90 and leopard 2 tanks got hit and didn't detect the missile. Humans with portable missile launchers can hide much better than atgm equiped vehicles.

    You can't make a weapon totally useless. It was created to destroy tanks and the designers took into consideration the enemy protection systems. If you come up with a new defensive system, the atgm will be adapted to counter it. That's why you have plenty of different atgm created often.
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    Post  Sujoy Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:28 am

    Isos wrote:Smock screen, use your gun against the launcher, APS, hide from line of sight, use drones to spot atgm teams before you enter into an area.

    But you need first to detect it and like Syrian conflict showed it isn't really easy and even t-90 and leopard 2 tanks got hit and didn't detect the missile. Humans with portable missile launchers can hide much better than atgm equiped vehicles.

    You can't make a weapon totally useless. It was created to destroy tanks and the designers took into consideration the enemy protection systems. If you come up with a new defensive system, the atgm will be adapted to counter it. That's why you have plenty of different atgm created often.

    Laser beam riding ATGMs also have limitations, since laser designation/illumination activates the laser warners & countermeasures suites. Hence, dual-mode or tri-mode guidance is the preferred alternative.


    The latest ATGMs available today incorporate dual-mode or triple-mode guidance for overcoming countermeasures.
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    Post  Isos Fri Jul 24, 2020 12:32 pm

    Laser warning systems are not great. Leopards, abrams and even t-90 didn't react when they were tareted by soviet made system in ME.

    To overcome them you can point the laser on the ground near the tank and point the tank at the last second.

    Dual mode or tri mode atgm are expensive and need training. With a kornet you point you launch and you hit. But IMO the best is man in the loop wire and optically guided, i.e the french MMP.

    Fire and forget are the worst missiles you can have.
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    Post  Sujoy Fri Jul 24, 2020 12:48 pm

    Isos wrote:With a kornet you point you launch and you hit. But IMO the best is man in the loop wire and optically guided, i.e the french MMP.

    Laser beam riding missiles like Kornet of course have their advantages but since their max range is around 10kms, acquiring the target becomes a challenge.

    Similarly, man-in-the-loop wire and optically guided ATGMs have their advantages. However, Sensors on MBTs, IFVs, etc that track incoming shots at the vehicle can also paint a target on the shooter and activate Slew-to-Cue weapons to neutralize the ATGM operators.

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    Post  Isos Fri Jul 24, 2020 12:57 pm

    There is no perfect weapon.

    10km for the kornet is good if you have the optics to detect a target at that range. Most man portable kornets would be used at 2 or 3km max. Its main advantage is 1300mm of penetration after ERA.

    Firing at the operator while he is firing his missile is a suicide. The missile would be going at you pretty fast even if it is not supersonic and the time to detect the missile, point your gun let the FCS know the distance, repoint the gun and fire can be longer than the time the missile needs to reach you after you detected the missile.

    Man in the loop optically and wire guide means you can hide when you use it without exposing yourself to tank's fire.

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    RTN
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    Post  RTN Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:48 am

    Isos wrote:Dual mode or tri mode atgm are expensive and need training. With a kornet you point you launch and you hit. But IMO the best is man in the loop wire and optically guided, i.e the french MMP.
    Far less training is required to use a dual or tri mode ATGM compared to the use of legacy ATGMs.

    The ony tri mode ATGM in NATO as of now is the AGM-179 JAGM. Man portable Tri Mode ATGMs haven't been designed yet though I hear MBDA is designing such a system.

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    Post  Sujoy Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:05 pm

    RTN wrote:The ony tri mode ATGM in NATO as of now is the AGM-179 JAGM. Man portable Tri Mode ATGMs haven't been designed yet though I hear MBDA is designing such a system.

    That 5th gen ATGM that MBDA has developed (and I suspect the one that you are referring to) is not a Laser Beam riding missile.

    That ATGM name MMP is very much a man in the loop ATGM with fire and forget capabilities.

    https://www.mbda-systems.com/product/mmp/

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