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    India's Foreign policy

    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Sat Sep 28, 2019 9:54 am

    Cyberspec wrote:I think a lot of people in this forum underestimate China's power...

    but Isos takes the cake...they will conquer China with Facebook and Iphones Very Happy

    Well if you mix my words, sure.

    But if you read carefully and start your brain, you will see I said they will use fb and twitter for weakening China and they did it in HK.

    Internal rebelion is the main threat to China. They lost the battle and chinese people are now aware gov can step back if there are big protestations. This lead to the contestation against the communist party.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:53 am

    The west fears its own loss of power and despises any country that looks like it could be in a position to take it from them, or even just dilute it a little.

    I don't fear China... most ethnic chinese people I know are good people I would be happy to trust... can't say the same about many other nationalities sadly.
    Cyberspec
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    Post  Cyberspec on Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:27 am

    Isos wrote:

    Well if you mix my words, sure.

    But if you read carefully and start your brain, you will see I said they will use fb and twitter for weakening China and they did it in HK.

    Internal rebelion is the main threat to China. They lost the battle and chinese people are now aware gov can step back if there are big protestations.  This lead to the contestation against the communist party.

    OK so they will destabilise China....how about first they stabilise themselves before trying to destabilise anyone else Question

    Cause what I'm seeing is for example, a disfunctional US government tearing it self apart, a never ending crisis in the UK, never ending riots in France....and all that without anyone from outside stirring the pot....or is it all a plot organised by Putin Very Happy
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    Post  jhelb on Sun Sep 29, 2019 11:50 am

    GarryB wrote: I find it ironic that former British colony America now wants to be friends to former British colony India.

    I always study internal developments of several countries, especially the ones to which Russia is exporting oil & gas and weapons. So naturally I've to watch India.

    It is now absolutely clear that their PM won the general election this year because (1) Electronic Voting Machines (EVMs) were tampered by US,UK and Israel ; (b) Voting through ballot was compromised because the agency holding election received millions in bribes from the ruling BJP. Many Indians are now openly talking about it on SM. Several Indians were jailed for speaking out against the ruling party and how they rigged the elections.

    https://twitter.com/Stupidosaur

    https://twitter.com/GreatGameIndia

    Unlike Russia, China incidents of vote rigging is very common in poor, third world corrupt states like India.

    The West supports despots across the world especially in Africa and Asia. They are doing the same in India by appointing a puppet government that takes orders from US, UK and Israel. Ergo, Russia needs to be very careful while dealing with India.
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Sep 29, 2019 2:47 pm

    But the US elections are pure as snow I guess... unless you get the endorsement of one of the two political parties in the US... democrat or republican, you have zero chance of becoming president... if you have no money supporting you you have no chance of being president... the point is that the elections of the candidates within each political party can be rigged and openly exposed as being rigged and nothing happens.

    Even when they get into power big business openly make demands based on the money they donated... give the winning candidate a million dollars and you get to pick which country you can be ambassador for... nothing at all to do with democracy and it doesn't matter what skills you have in diplomacy as shown by previous US ambassadors to various countries... the one in Germany is very popular with the locals as he tells they what they should or should not do like the colonial master he is.

    Besides are you stupid or not... I realise you are not a total expert in English, but democracy is an ancient word that means what we tell you it means, and if the bribery and corruption comes from the UK, the US, or the land of the Juice... then that is what democracy is by definition and you owe those countries a lot for saving you from the embarrassment of voting for someone they don't approve of.... you stupid savages.

    Their brown or yellow or whatever colour skin make them stupid or good at sports or something and so we with our superior white skin and therefore also more civilised brain need to tell them who they should have running their country in our best interests... it saves them from being bombed and sanctioned.

    Look at Iraq... they voted in who they wanted so we had to kill a lot of them... same in Yemen... same in Syria and Libya... the people they voted in got in our way of stripping their countries of resources... and they didn't buy our weapons either so they are war criminals and terrorists... unlike saudi arabia who are in the process of murdering millions of Yemeni people either directly or via famine and the blockade they have on the country... not to mention dismembering and THEN killing one of their own citizens working for the Washington Post newspaper... those sick fucks... you can bet your ass somewhere there is a video... hollywood quality of that doing the rounds in Saudi Arabia... they loved the videos from Chechnia of the rebels murdering Russian soldiers by beheading... they got good money from the Saudis for that... they love that sick shit... they said it was a 14 man hit team... so probably 5 to actually kill him and probably another 4 to clean up the mess, so that means a 5 man film crew... probably three cameras and a sound man and a director... some of the clean up guys probably wiped any blood off the camera lenses so they could see what was happening.... they probably filmed it in 3D.

    But no... you think India is bad because their politicians can be bought... my question would be whose can't?

    Unlike Russia, China incidents of vote rigging is very common in poor, third world corrupt states like India.

    But the west monitors those elections to ensure they are free and fair... you know the only places with corruption are places that wont take their money...

    The West supports despots across the world especially in Africa and Asia. They are doing the same in India by appointing a puppet government that takes orders from US, UK and Israel. Ergo, Russia needs to be very careful while dealing with India.

    If Russia backs off from India, the west will push right in there... for most corrupt and backward countries around the world their best chance at a decent future is with Russia and China... but even they are not perfect and their might be corruption and problems down the line but nothing like the institutionalised BS from the west.

    If you take a newborn baby from any developing country and put it in a safe loving Russian family environment that child will grow up and act like any white Russian... except their looks and skin colour might be different, they will learn to speak Russian like anyone else there, and they will learn its culture and ethics and mannerisms and characteristics.

    If you take a white Russian baby and put him with some Brazilian rainforest natives, the child will learn the local language and learn the culture and ethics and mannerisms and characteristics of the local tribe.

    This suggests that there is little difference between different peoples and that the third world shouldn't still be the third world... they should have developed the way the west developed... though not necessarily taking the same path... even though the west thinks the one they took is the correct and only way... it is not.

    The destination also does not have to be the same.

    They talk about tolerance and rights, but even today they are selective... 50 years ago you could not get away with defending homosexuality on TV in the US... 150 years ago you could not get away with defending rights for non white people in the US... or women for that matter.

    They will tell you they are more civilised now and women and gays and people who don't know what gender they are have equal rights... but actually they have more rights... you can't abuse someone who is gay or who is a women or is not sure... that is now illegal.

    There was a Dire Straits song called "Money for nothing", which is about rock stars getting money for nothing... it is OK because they are calling themselves faggots from the perspective of ordinary working people... ie the lyrics include something along the lines of "that little faggot got his own jet airplane... that little faggot he's a millionaire..."

    But you can abuse some groups you can't abuse people because of their gender, you can't abuse jews... it seems you can offend christians, but you can't offend muslims now, but if you want you can say anything you like about Russians as long as it is bad and hints at their evil nature.

    I find it ironic that former British colony America now wants to be friends to former British colony India.

    And you missed the point of this comment... America does not have friends... it has interests... and its interests is stifling the development of Russia and China and also of selling products... so if it is trying to hurt China then it can't turn its back on 1.2 billion Indians as well.

    The US could care less about democracy or free and fair elections... it doesn't even have any of its own.

    The funny thing is all these new laws they have created to try to catch Russia and Russians can easily be used against the countries that actually interfere in US elections like Israel and the UK and the Ukraine...
    Pinto
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    Post  Pinto on Sun Sep 29, 2019 5:40 pm

    wow now twitter links will decide the fairness of elections in india, Its truly said that hatred makes the man blind in his thoughts and beliefs too
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    Post  jhelb on Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:53 pm

    GarryB wrote: But the US elections are pure as snow I guess... unless you get the endorsement of one of the two political parties in the US... democrat or republican, you have zero chance of becoming president...

    Never said US elections are fair. But they never allow outside powers to interfere.

    GarryB wrote:But no... you think India is bad because their politicians can be bought... my question would be whose can't?

    Russian politicians can't be bought. The ones who were corrupt were take care of


    GarryB wrote:If Russia backs off from India, the west will push right in there...

    Already a western trojan (created by US, UK, Israel) is ruling India. Indian government is doing exactly what these western states wants it to do. For instance, west asked the BJP to stop oil imports from Iran and they stopped imports overnight. India is not a friend of Russia. Kremlin needs to realize that India is now being controlled by Anglo-Saxons & Zionist.

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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:19 pm

    Kremlin needs to realize that India is now being controlled by Anglo-Saxons & Zionist.
    even if so, it's temporary-once they get what they want from the West & get tired of its patronage, things will change.
    Meanwhile, thanks to China, India is investing in the RFE:
    https://zen.yandex.ru/media/lobbist/indiia-vydelit-rossii-1-mlrd-dollarov-istinnye-prichiny-5d8f7c5de4f39f00b29f0d62
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:28 am

    Never said US elections are fair. But they never allow outside powers to interfere.

    First of all bullshit... the Australian government donated 80 million dollars to the Clinton foundation... but stopped donating money when she lost... you would think after losing the election she would have more time to spend that money to do good around the world... but I guess it was clearly an attempt to bribe and buy influence from a future president of the united states of america.... and australia wasn't the only country spending money on us elections... it is big business.

    And more importantly... if the last remaining super power can't manage fair elections... the centre of the human universe... the core of humanity... ethics... morality... the technology engine of the world... why would you expect fair elections anywhere?

    Russian politicians can't be bought. The ones who were corrupt were take care of

    I would not believe that, but certainly Putin clearly is unpopular in western government circles because he puts the interests of Russia and the Russian people above personal gain.

    He makes mistakes, like thinking Russia has any future with the west, but he is learning to trust them much less.

    Already a western trojan (created by US, UK, Israel) is ruling India.

    It doesn't matter who he is, Russia is hardly going to be able to assassinate him and replace him with their man.

    The leader of the Ukraine that everyone in the west calls pro Russian, was totally anti Russian... but he wasn't an idiot. He recognised that the Russian and Chinese offers were vastly better than the offers from the EU so he took the non EU option and suffered a colour revolution, and had lots of his people murdered and the country was divided and then stripped of anything of value by those western countries promising to help them.

    The really funny thing is that to this day they blame Russia for the US imposed coup that created the entire situation.

    The only happy people are the people of Crimea... but if areas of the Ukraine can negotiate some sort of peace agreement and sanctions are dropped and trade with Russia starts building up both economies then things can be much better for everyone... but I suspect the west will demand that Kiev demands the return of the Crimea... and probably reparations and other such shit... so there will probably be a stalemate until Kiev works out that Russia is not going to go away, and are not the real bad guys in this story... it was western hired georgian snipers that murdered people indiscriminately that started this off... I doubt they got paid very well... in fact I would suspect a lot of them ended up in a ditch somewhere.

    For instance, west asked the BJP to stop oil imports from Iran and they stopped imports overnight.

    India does not owe Iran anything... I would expect BJP has rather more US related business than business with Iran and I am also pretty damn sure the word asks really does not come in to it at all.

    India is not a friend of Russia. Kremlin needs to realize that India is now being controlled by Anglo-Saxons & Zionist.

    Russia is offering to sell S-400 missiles and Su-35 fighters to Saudi Arabia... I doubt Iran would approve of that either...

    The west has a lot of money and power, India would be stupid to ignore them and try to cut ties with them until BRICSA becomes a viable alternative.

    Meanwhile, thanks to China, India is investing in the RFE:

    Indeed, India and China could easily invest in Russia... there is plenty of potential to make a lot of money... trade and cooperation between Russia and India and China benefits all three countries and improves all three countries and is not money siphoning off to the west which is what normally happens and where much of the wealth in the west comes from...
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:50 am

    India does not owe Iran anything...
    The N-S route from India to Russia, the Baltics & Scandinavia crosses Iran; the Indians would be wise not to get on the Iranians' bad side.
    Besides, they have large Muslim population & ancient historical ties; many prominent Indians were/r Parsis that originally came from Iran.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Parsis
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:00 am

    Yeah... all these silk road projects are intended to create cheaper land and sea routes from Asia to Europe with the result of creating cheaper faster trade route alternatives to existing options... for both Asia and Europe... and Europe has dropped Iran like a burning hot rock...

    Europe is busy trying to both get Russian gas to europe and blocking it... blocking cheap energy supplies, whose alternative is much more expensive and unreliable...

    It seems the west is the expert in screwing partners, but anyone can do it.

    Russia withheld S-300 missiles for Iran because of sanctions they allowed themselves and could have stopped, but they don't want a nuclear armed Iran either.
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    Post  Pinto on Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:37 pm

    https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/s-jaishankar-defends-india-on-buying-russian-arms-amid-us-sanctions-threat-calls-it-sovereign-right-2109914

    WASHINGTON:

    The Foreign Minister is on a visit to Washington

    External Affairs Minister S Jaishankar today defended India's right to buy a missile defense system from Russia despite the threat of sanctions from the United States.

    On a visit to Washington, Mr Jaishankar said India was discussing the US concerns but declined to forecast the ultimate decision on the fate of the S-400 purchase from Russia.

    "We have always maintained that what we buy -- the sourcing of military equipment -- is very much a sovereign right," he told reporters ahead of a meeting with Secretary of State Mike Pompeo.

    "We would not like any state to tell us what to buy or not to buy from Russia any more than we would like any state to tell us to buy or not buy from America," he said.

    "That freedom of choice is ours and we think it's in everybody's interest to recognize that," he said.

    India, a Cold War ally of the Soviet Union, last year agreed to buy five S-400 systems for $5.2 billion, and Russia has said that delivery is on track.

    Under a 2017 law, the United States imposes sanctions against countries over "major" arms purchases from Russia due to Moscow's military involvement in Ukraine and Syria and alleged meddling in US elections.

    Turkey, a NATO ally, in June angered the United States by also going ahead with an S-400 purchase.


    US President Donald Trump responded by ending Turkey's involvement in the F-35 fighter jet program but has yet to announce other sanctions.

    Mr Jaishankar hailed warm relations overall with the United States but underlined India's differences with Trump's hawkish stance on Iran.

    The United States has threatened sanctions to force all countries to stop buying oil from Iran as it seeks to curb the clerical regime's influence in the Middle East.

    In May, the Trump administration ended waivers for countries including India, formerly a leading customer for Iranian oil.

    "We view Iran from the east, and from the east Iran has been a very stable, status quo power," Mr Jaishankar said.

    For India, "we've been repeatedly assured that the affordable and predictable access to energy will not change," he said, declining to comment further on discussions on Iran.

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    Post  GarryB on Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:44 am

    India should look at its cooperation with the US regarding China and suggest they might withdraw from that if the US is going to dictate to India what it buys and when.

    The US wants India as a partner against China, and at the moment that suits India... but this situation would not occur if it was not in Americas interests... therefore it makes it a good area to push back on.

    If the US imposes sanctions on India regarding Indias relationship with Iran or Russia, then India should threaten to withdraw from agreements with the US regarding China... lets see how long the tough talk from the white house lasts.
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    Post  Pinto on Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:49 pm

    GarryB wrote:India should look at its cooperation with the US regarding China and suggest they might withdraw from that if the US is going to dictate to India what it buys and when.


    The US wants India as a partner against China, and at the moment that suits India... but this situation would not occur if it was not in Americas interests... therefore it makes it a good area to push back on.

    If the US imposes sanctions on India regarding Indias relationship with Iran or Russia, then India should threaten to withdraw from agreements with the US regarding China... lets see how long the tough talk from the white house lasts.

    you have summarised very well the options available to India
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:05 pm

    India should seek ‘hawkish balance’ through Quad

    IMO, it won't help her much even if she does. Iran with BRI & Thailand with railroad & impending Kra canal developments r also getting more allied with the PRC, & Russia is returning to the Indian Ocean.
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:45 am

    Ultimately the US is fading and wont ever be again what it is at the moment so India would be rather stupid to hitch their wagon exclusively to them... in a multipolar world you really don't know who you will need to deal with, so a country that demands exclusive control of your decisions is a bad idea for you... whether that country is the US or Russia or China.... note Russia hasn't told Turkey or India they can't have F-35s if they buy S-400s... that shit only comes from the west... which is why what they call the third world will greatly benefit from better relations with Russia and China and India.

    Russia doesn't want to hold China back and China does not want to hold Russia back... neither Russia nor China suffer if India develops either... in fact all three benefit from the growth and development of each other including themselves.

    BRICS isn't about destroying the west, it is about bypassing western attempts to keep rivals down and continuing to develop and grow as they want.

    When the US works out it is not directed at trying to make them fall things might improve, but they are just as likely to see it all as a threat to their position and attack.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:12 am

    BRICS isn't about destroying the west, it is about bypassing western attempts to keep rivals down and continuing to develop and grow as they want.
    but by doing so they undermine the Western dominance, & it now sees the writing on the wall. even w/o Brazil, these 3 Eurasian powers can marginalize the EU/NATO & USA in particular to the point that some day Japan, SK & Australia may jump on this bandwagon to rip the benefits offered by the BRI, NSR, free trade, barter, avoiding the US$, hosting US bases, & less defence spending.
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    Post  jhelb on Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:22 pm

    GarryB wrote:Russia doesn't want to hold China back and China does not want to hold Russia back... neither Russia nor China suffer if India develops either

    If Russia gets too close to India, Russia's relations with China will suffer, obviously because China considers India one of it biggest enemies. China is Russia's largest trading partner and will continue to remain so for a very long time. No need to rub China the wrong way for the sake of a third world shithole.

    That aside Russia should develop its relations with prosperous Asian countries like Japan and South Korea and not failed, poor states like India. Consider this , India's Per Capita Income is 40% less than China and 70% less than Russia. At its current rate of growth it will take India 75 years to reach Russian income level.

    Japan and South Korea are close to the Russian far east and being prosperous they can afford to buy a whole lot of raw materials, finished products from Russia. India is not just very far away geographically from Russia but being a dirt poor country it can hardly afford to purchase a whole lot of Russian goods.

    In the past at least India purchased weapons from Russia, but now they are increasingly purchasing more weapons from EU and US.

    There are no cultural similarities between Orthodox Russia and caste infested Hindu India. Russia should instead focus on building its relations with western Europe with whom Russia shares several cultural similarities and where millions of Russians travel every year for education and for work. IIRC, even Vlad once said he used to study in UK.  Russian students, businessmen are a vital source of income for western countries and they realize it.
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:11 am

    If Russia gets too close to India, Russia's relations with China will suffer, obviously because China considers India one of it biggest enemies.

    What are you talking about?

    India and China have some disagreements over border areas, but are not actually at war.

    They are not best buddies of course, but they take the other into account when deploying their military forces and their arms purchases, but the US is a much bigger enemy to China than India is and both India and China have a difficult history with Britain too.

    China sells weapons to Pakistan, but I think that is purely commercial, and not an attempt to undermine India... if India wanted to it could stir up a lot of shit in Tibet and Nepal regarding China if they wanted to, and they clearly do not.

    Both countries are part of BRICS and are working together to create a better future for both countries.

    China is Russia's largest trading partner and will continue to remain so for a very long time. No need to rub China the wrong way for the sake of a third world shithole.

    Funny you say that because the American elite think of it as three third world shitholes ganging up on them personally... when in fact it is all about development and growth for all members of the group and not just one member like you get with every organisation with the US involved.

    That aside Russia should develop its relations with prosperous Asian countries like Japan and South Korea and not failed, poor states like India.

    Why would they want good relations with Russia... that would ruin their good relations with the west... which were rather hard won.

    It wasn't that long ago that China was a poor state too, and India has a good future if it makes sensible choices and decisions like China obviously has.

    Russia has much more potential growing together with India and China, than with any relations with the west... the west does not want Russia to develop and grow... they want their resource yard to be owned by poor people who are pleased to get their business...

    Consider this , India's Per Capita Income is 40% less than China and 70% less than Russia. At its current rate of growth it will take India 75 years to reach Russian income level.

    So what if it does? And growth rates can change over night... a few minor changes and India could dwarf even the US economy, or it could remain the same... the west wants it to remain the same... the whole idea of BRICS is to get developing economies up to what you could call western standards so anyone can have a more comfortable life.

    Japan and South Korea are close to the Russian far east and being prosperous they can afford to buy a whole lot of raw materials, finished products from Russia. India is not just very far away geographically from Russia but being a dirt poor country it can hardly afford to purchase a whole lot of Russian goods.

    Poor people pay the same amount for products as rich people do... in fact more often than not rich people demand discounts for bulk purchases, so they often pay less than poor people who just buy it as they need it.

    Geographic location simply does not come in to it... New Zealand milk and butter products are cheaper in Thailand than they are here in New Zealand. A large customer base and bulk purchasing can drive down costs and increase profit margins so they don't need to charge as much.

    In the past at least India purchased weapons from Russia, but now they are increasingly purchasing more weapons from EU and US.

    Actually they are probably buying more Russian weapons now than ever before... their primary air defence missile is going to be S-400s, their small arms are now going to be AK-203 rifles for the most part, and they are ordering more tanks too...

    A bit of experience operating US helicopters will lead them to better appreciate their Russian alternatives I rather suspect too.

    Hellfire missiles and Javelins are very expensive for what they are.... India is about to find out.
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    Post  flamming_python on Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:15 am

    jhelb wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Russia doesn't want to hold China back and China does not want to hold Russia back... neither Russia nor China suffer if India develops either

    If Russia gets too close to India, Russia's relations with China will suffer, obviously because China considers India one of it biggest enemies. China is Russia's largest trading partner and will continue to remain so for a very long time. No need to rub China the wrong way for the sake of a third world shithole.

    That aside Russia should develop its relations with prosperous Asian countries like Japan and South Korea and not failed, poor states like India. Consider this , India's Per Capita Income is 40% less than China and 70% less than Russia. At its current rate of growth it will take India 75 years to reach Russian income level.

    Japan and South Korea are close to the Russian far east and being prosperous they can afford to buy a whole lot of raw materials, finished products from Russia. India is not just very far away geographically from Russia but being a dirt poor country it can hardly afford to purchase a whole lot of Russian goods.

    In the past at least India purchased weapons from Russia, but now they are increasingly purchasing more weapons from EU and US.

    There are no cultural similarities between Orthodox Russia and caste infested Hindu India. Russia should instead focus on building its relations with western Europe with whom Russia shares several cultural similarities and where millions of Russians travel every year for education and for work. IIRC, even Vlad once said he used to study in UK.  Russian students, businessmen are a vital source of income for western countries and they realize it.

    Where does all this hate come from?

    Russia and India have a history of warm relations and shared sympathies. Perhaps the warmest history between any two great powers. And long may it continue.

    I'm happy with Russia building closer ties with China, but China should never dictate the extent of Russia's ties with India, and conversely - India shouldn't dictate the extent of Russia's ties with China. Russia needs to be friends with both.
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:29 am

    There are no cultural similarities between Orthodox Russia and caste infested Hindu India.

    There are no cultural similarities between Russia, India, China, Brazil, or South Africa... are you saying BRICS is a waste of time too?

    The europeans have been doing their utmost to destroy orthodox christianity... doesn't that make them worse than the Indians who have not.

    Russia should instead focus on building its relations with western Europe with whom Russia shares several cultural similarities and where millions of Russians travel every year for education and for work. IIRC, even Vlad once said he used to study in UK.

    They reject you on a daily basis... you evil russians who poison people and use drugs to cheat at sports and steal peninsulas and help fight moderate terrorists acting on out behalf to liberate a land route for gas pipelines from the middle east to europe that would bypass Russia.

    Tell me, is it Stockholm syndrome?

    The reality is that you don't have anything to learn from them... they have quite a bit to learn from you... but they wont.

    Russian students, businessmen are a vital source of income for western countries and they realize it.

    Yeah, just like precious stones are also a vital source of income in Europe, so places like the Congo and South Africa are important... but the people of Congo and the people of South Africa could be suffering terribly for all they care and if you talked to them about it they would call them savages and primitives the way a certain french member here describes poor people that are not french...

    If you want to fund their lifestyle then go right ahead, but learning their twisted views of the world, I am sure you will be turning your nose up at the damn natives soon too... you already think of Indians that way, I guess it wont be long before the Venezuelans and other peoples of different countries will become numbers based on their value to your economy.

    I doubt it will happen while Putin is in charge but I guess eventually there is a chance you and Vann will get your way and Russia will just be an America part two with a different mask but the same shit underneath.

    Russia needs to be friends with both.

    Well said.

    Fundamentally, Russia does not have that many countries that are independent enough to keep good relations with them, and when two of them... China and India, have 2 and a half to three billion people potential consumers living there it makes sense to have good relations with both countries and other countries besides.

    Russia really isn't in a position to choose not to trade with anyone to be honest... you should trade with whomever you can when you can.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:47 am

    There are no cultural similarities between Orthodox Russia and caste infested Hindu India.
    actually, there r similarities: both have Aryan ancestors; Hinduism & Russian Orthodox Christianity have the Supreme God & extensive iconography tradition
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_deities

    Many Indians & Russian Gypsies who migrated from India over 500 years ago r also Christians.
    Also, India's 200M people identified as adherents of Islam (2018 estimate) & Russia has ~11M Muslims:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_India
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Russia


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:50 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add text)
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    Post  jhelb on Sat Oct 05, 2019 1:34 pm

    flamming_python wrote: Where does all this hate come from?

    Where is the hate ? I'm saying things the way they are. Might sound unsettling but that's the truth.

    When the Brits left India they created 3 parties - Congress, Muslim League, RSS (the current BJP's parent party). Muslim League created Pakistan and left. Brits ruled India indirectly via Congress for 70 odd years and now the Anglo-Saxons are ruling India using the BJP.

    Russians would be fools to believe that India is a friendly country.

    And do you mind not calling them a great power? They have spend more than a 1000 years as a colony, either of Islamic countries or the Brits. Even nothing power like Uzbekistan had conquered those Hindus. In contrast Russia has not been a colony of any country for even 10 years.

    The obnoxious religion that country practices has kept it backward for ever. Even China despite lagging India initially, has leaped far ahead and is now a superpower. South Korea, Taiwan, Japan are other Asian states that are generations ahead of India.

    flamming_python wrote:I'm happy with Russia building closer ties with China, but China should never dictate the extent of Russia's ties with India, and conversely - India shouldn't dictate the extent of Russia's ties with China. Russia needs to be friends with both.

    Makes no sense for Russia to be friends with a failed state. If these Indians can afford Russian stuff go ahead and sell it, but there is no need to define them as friends. They are not.

    Already, Hindus are putting a whole lot of pressure on the Kremlin not to sell advanced hi tech weapons to Pakistan and China. Billions of $$ worth of prospective weapon sales to Pakistan were scuttled by Hindus. Will those corrupt Hindus compensate Russia for all the losses? They also won drilling rights in Siberia despite the fact that Chinese companies were the highest bidder. Guess how.
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    Post  jhelb on Sat Oct 05, 2019 1:48 pm

    GarryB wrote:India and China have some disagreements over border areas, but are not actually at war.

    They fought a war in 1962 that India lost very badly. Then they fought border wars again in 1967 and then again in the mid 80s. More recently, in 2017 they were hours away from an actual conflict. I hope the Indians realize that they have no chance of a win against the Chinese.

    GarryB wrote:The europeans have been doing their utmost to destroy orthodox christianity... doesn't that make them worse than the Indians who have not.

    My point was about Orthodoxy and Hindusim. The former by its very nature uplifts people, empowers them. The latter on the other hand divides society into castes and then each of these castes go around cornering resources.

    This explains why despite WW 1, it took the Soviet Union less than 30 years to become an industrial superpower. And more than 70 years after independence India remains one of the poorest, most corrupt country in the world, along with Sub Saharan Africa.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:08 pm

    My point was about Orthodoxy and Hindusim. The former by its very nature uplifts people, empowers them. ..This explains why despite WW 1, it took the Soviet Union less than 30 years to become an industrial superpower.
    Stalin, who destroyed individual agriculture by the Orthodox peasants, killed/exiled thousands of priests & monks, closed churches & monasteries, & started industrialization to catch up with the West, was himself expelled from the seminary. To save his atheist regime, the clerics were allowed more freedom only during WWII, which helped to win it.

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