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    Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:40 pm

    These aircraft perhaps are from Russia stocks and might be slightly different from the aircraft exported to Iran and Iraq previously.

    I suspect, it being a two seater aircraft that flight training will be offered and weapons officer training will also be offered, but that initially some private crew could be used till the locals get up to speed.

    Iraq has or had some excellent, professional pilots, and I am sure Iran has excellent pilots too and would be happy to assist its neighbour in this situation.

    An organisation wanting to create Kurdistan will want a piece of Iran and Turkey too.
    d_taddei2
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    Post  d_taddei2 Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:11 pm

    Hi can anyone confirm whats actually been delivered as i believe that 5x SU-25 frogfoots were delivered, but i have seen people and press mentioning 10x SU-24 fencers but then pictures of SU-25, can anyone confirm? i thought they received SU-25's or are they receivng both?

    Iraq are in so much need of air support right now and USA dragging there feet with the F-16's ordered, maybe Iraq is better looking to Russian for aircraft long term,

    currently Iraq are having to use a small number of L-159, MI-35, MI-28, and Serbian made Lasta-95 turbo prop to take on the terrorists. I think at this rate Iraq maybe take up the option that was given to them to buy addtional Lasta-95 there extremely cheap to buy(compaired to beechcraft texan T6) and very cheap to operate.
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    iraqidabab


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    Post  iraqidabab Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:34 pm

    The air force commander says Former Iraqi SU-25 pilots will fly them.

    The last SU 25 was seen flying over Iraq in 2002, if they still have pilots capable then it's possible.
    However it might very well be that Russian mercenary pilots will fly them which I prefer, if it's Iraqi pilots who have not flown for 10 years their skills are pretty much deteriorated.
    I doubt those pilots can suddenly get back into combat while they have not flown the Sukhoi for 10+ years.



    If Iraq manages to get 30-40 SU-25's and later upgrade them they'll be a lot better of.
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    sheytanelkebir


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    Post  sheytanelkebir Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:37 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:Hi can anyone confirm whats actually been delivered as i believe that 5x SU-25 frogfoots were delivered, but i have seen people and press mentioning 10x SU-24 fencers but then pictures of SU-25, can anyone confirm? i thought they received SU-25's or are they receivng both?

    Iraq are in so much need of air support right now and USA dragging there feet with the F-16's ordered, maybe Iraq is better looking to Russian for aircraft long term,

    currently Iraq are having to use a small number of L-159, MI-35, MI-28, and Serbian made Lasta-95 turbo prop to take on the terrorists. I think at this rate Iraq maybe take up the option that was given to them to buy addtional Lasta-95 there extremely cheap to buy(compaired to beechcraft texan T6) and very cheap to operate.

    there's no confirmation of SU-24 at all. so far its just "media talk". once its on the MOD official website its official.
    Mi28s have not been delivered yet. They will be though soon (I am not sure whats the situation with motor-sich!!)
    L159 has not been delivered yet, A number of Iraqi pilots are in Czech Republic now training on them. So their arrival will be "soon".

    So far there are only 5x Su-25s confirmed. They are using Russian technical assistants, in addition to some iraqi pilots and ground crews who've been "preparing" for the type with refresher training for the last month or so. The Iraqi pilots who will fly it are from the "old" air force, so the last time they actually flew SU-25s was more than 11 years ago!

    The crews in the attack helos by comparison are all young recruits, they've had more time to prepare for their induction.

    All the Lasta95 and T6 texans are very busy with training pilots. The Air Academy has been relocated to Imam Ali AB in southern Iraq as a precaution... but its still very active.
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    a89


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    Post  a89 Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:04 pm

    The air force commander says Former Iraqi SU-25 pilots will fly them.

    I thought there were no pilots left from Saddam's era. will the Russian provide ground crew while Iraq's are being trained?
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    sheytanelkebir


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    Post  sheytanelkebir Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:34 pm

    a89 wrote:
    The air force commander says Former Iraqi SU-25 pilots will fly them.

    I thought there were no pilots left from Saddam's era. will the Russian provide ground crew while Iraq's are being trained?

    there are plenty of pilots in the Iraqi Air Force and Army Aviation from the old air force. The vast majority are in the two "air academies" but a few do still fly frontline.

    One of my relatives, who was in army aviation all the way back in the mid 1980s (on Alluette III and later on BK-117s) is back in the Army aviation for the past 2 years...
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    Post  iraqidabab Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:25 pm

    We can assume those SU-25's are the basic version, it can't fire guided missiles, just unguided bombs and rockets ?
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    Post  TR1 Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:32 pm

    Su-25 from the very start could fire guided missiles like Kh-25, Kh-29 and S-25L.
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    Post  d_taddei2 Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:37 pm

    sheytanelkebir wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:Hi can anyone confirm whats actually been delivered as i believe that 5x SU-25 frogfoots were delivered, but i have seen people and press mentioning 10x SU-24 fencers but then pictures of SU-25, can anyone confirm? i thought they received SU-25's or are they receivng both?

    Iraq are in so much need of air support right now and USA dragging there feet with the F-16's ordered, maybe Iraq is better looking to Russian for aircraft long term,

    currently Iraq are having to use a small number of L-159, MI-35, MI-28, and Serbian made Lasta-95 turbo prop to take on the terrorists. I think at this rate Iraq maybe take up the option that was given to them to buy addtional Lasta-95 there extremely cheap to buy(compaired to beechcraft texan T6) and very cheap to operate.

    there's no confirmation of SU-24 at all. so far its just "media talk". once its on the MOD official website its official.
    Mi28s have not been delivered yet. They will be though soon (I am not sure whats the situation with motor-sich!!)
    L159 has not been delivered yet, A number of Iraqi pilots are in Czech Republic now training on them. So their arrival will be "soon".

    So far there are only 5x Su-25s confirmed. They are using Russian technical assistants, in addition to some iraqi pilots and ground crews who've been "preparing" for the type with refresher training for the last month or so. The Iraqi pilots who will fly it are from the "old" air force, so the last time they actually flew SU-25s was more than 11 years ago!

    The crews in the attack helos by comparison are all young recruits, they've had more time to prepare for their induction.

    All the Lasta95 and T6 texans are very busy with training pilots. The Air Academy has been relocated to Imam Ali AB in southern Iraq as a precaution... but its still very active.

    I thought as much, i didnt think they were getting SU-24's, according to one of my ex military friends working in security in Iraq, some Lasta-95 were being fitted with unguided rocket pods and 12.7mm gun pods, as the need for air support increases obviously not the most ideal aircraft, but better than nothing. Also Iraq also operate 2-3 Cessna 208 caravan which have been upgraded to fire hellfire missles. yet again not the best option. I think as it stands Iraq will end up doing more deals with Russia than USA if the americans keep delaying arms and the F-16's.
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    Post  iraqidabab Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:25 am

    TR1 wrote:Su-25 from the very start could fire guided missiles like Kh-25, Kh-29 and S-25L.

    Must be radar guided then if the SU-25 won't be fitted with other targeting systems for shorter range engagement, for Iraq's current threat shorter range engagement with FLIR viewing of the target is needed. They won't be engaging enemy air defenses so those missiles you named above won't be used except maybe S 25
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    Post  GarryB Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:39 am

    Hi can anyone confirm whats actually been delivered as i believe that 5x SU-25 frogfoots were delivered, but i have seen people and press mentioning 10x SU-24 fencers but then pictures of SU-25, can anyone confirm? i thought they received SU-25's or are they receivng both?

    I would suspect they will be happy to show Su-25s because their availability will likely severely change ISIS tactics and they will only move big columns and large forces at night.

    With Su-24s however these are more likely to use intel information and night attacks with precision weapons to strike ISIS HQs inside captured towns and cities... a UAV with electronic sensors that can detect radio transmissions should be able to locate such areas fairly quickly just by flying very high and listening.

    Su-25s are what they need right now to stop the pace of the ISIS advance and to support Iraqi ground forces fighting ISIS... the sooner they can get them airborne and operational the better so Russian advisor pilots are likely... some flight training equipment and some more aircraft... especially two seaters, which the Russian factory was the original producer should help with training and also the problem because the two seater is fully operational too.

    Iraq are in so much need of air support right now and USA dragging there feet with the F-16's ordered, maybe Iraq is better looking to Russian for aircraft long term,

    In the long term good relations with both Russia and the US is in Iraqs interests... of course helping Iraq fight the beast the US created this time around wont be an urgent priority in Washington, but I suspect it will be CAS aircraft and Strike aircraft that will be the most useful right now.

    I think at this rate Iraq maybe take up the option that was given to them to buy addtional Lasta-95 there extremely cheap to buy(compaired to beechcraft texan T6) and very cheap to operate.

    Used as sort of manned armed drones to allow the Iraqi Air Force have eyes and weapons in more places at once fairly cheaply then it makes a lot of sense... especially with cheap simple ordinance.

    The air force commander says Former Iraqi SU-25 pilots will fly them.

    For a pilot I suspect the Su-25 is fairly straight forward to fly and operate... as long as those pilots have been flying something in the last 12 years it would not take a huge amount of time to get them back up to speed IMHO.

    However it might very well be that Russian mercenary pilots will fly them which I prefer, if it's Iraqi pilots who have not flown for 10 years their skills are pretty much deteriorated.

    Is there any word on two seaters being included?

    I suspect advisor pilots might get the aircraft into action ASAP, but it would not be impossible for Iraqi pilots to be flying them in combat within a week or two.


    So far there are only 5x Su-25s confirmed. They are using Russian technical assistants, in addition to some iraqi pilots and ground crews who've been "preparing" for the type with refresher training for the last month or so. The Iraqi pilots who will fly it are from the "old" air force, so the last time they actually flew SU-25s was more than 11 years ago!

    Well... if there are Iraqi pilots who have been in training then they should be fine...

    We can assume those SU-25's are the basic version, it can't fire guided missiles, just unguided bombs and rockets ?

    From the photo above the optical port in the nose is a laser target marker/lased target tracking/laser range finder system. It is able to carry and use laser guided rockets, AS-10 (Kh-25ML) and AS-14 (Kh-29L) and a few other types should be standard.

    A fairly modest upgrade to SM standard would add a wide range of guided options and improve the performance of unguided weapons delivery.

    TR1
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    Post  TR1 Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:45 am

    iraqidabab wrote:
    TR1 wrote:Su-25 from the very start could fire guided missiles like Kh-25, Kh-29 and S-25L.

    Must be radar guided then if the SU-25 won't be fitted with other targeting systems for shorter range engagement, for Iraq's current threat shorter range engagement with FLIR viewing of the target is needed. They won't be engaging enemy air defenses so those missiles you named above won't be used except maybe S 25

    Laser.

    It has Klen, it can self designate.
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    Post  Flyboy77 Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:05 pm

    That was quick

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    sheytanelkebir


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    Post  sheytanelkebir Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:38 pm

    aparently 10x SU-25s were bought.

    in addition in an interview with the commander of the airforce on sumaria news:
    Iraq will receive the first Mi28Ne very soon.
    More fighters from Russia (in addition to these secondhand SU25s?)
    Iraq also bought combat aircraft from China (JF-17 that they've been evaluating?)
    In addition to the L159s from Czech.

    no news if the US will "refund" the money for the F16s...
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    Post  Flyboy77 Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:49 pm

    sheytanelkebir wrote:aparently 10x SU-25s were bought.

    in addition in an interview with the commander of the airforce on sumaria news:
    Iraq will receive the first Mi28Ne very soon.
    More fighters from Russia (in addition to these secondhand SU25s?)
    Iraq also bought combat aircraft from China (JF-17 that they've been evaluating?)
    In addition to the L159s from Czech.

    no news if the US will "refund" the money for the F16s...

    Has Iraq now decided to to except the F-16s?

    Iraq's military procurement seems to be all over the place. Why buy two similar aircraft like the L-159 and T/A-50? Are they meant to be used for different rolls?
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    Post  iraqidabab Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:23 pm

    Flyboy77 wrote:
    sheytanelkebir wrote:aparently 10x SU-25s were bought.

    in addition in an interview with the commander of the airforce on sumaria news:
    Iraq will receive the first Mi28Ne very soon.
    More fighters from Russia (in addition to these secondhand SU25s?)
    Iraq also bought combat aircraft from China (JF-17 that they've been evaluating?)
    In addition to the L159s from Czech.

    no news if the US will "refund" the money for the F16s...

    Has Iraq now decided to to except the F-16s?

    Iraq's military procurement seems to be all over the place. Why buy two similar aircraft like the L-159 and T/A-50? Are they meant to be used for different rolls?

    F16's will come, Americans are slow for some reason. Now it says they come in September.
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:36 pm

    iraqidabab wrote:
    Flyboy77 wrote:
    sheytanelkebir wrote:aparently 10x SU-25s were bought.

    in addition in an interview with the commander of the airforce on sumaria news:
    Iraq will receive the first Mi28Ne very soon.
    More fighters from Russia (in addition to these secondhand SU25s?)
    Iraq also bought combat aircraft from China (JF-17 that they've been evaluating?)
    In addition to the L159s from Czech.

    no news if the US will "refund" the money for the F16s...

    Has Iraq now decided to to except the F-16s?

    Iraq's military procurement seems to be all over the place. Why buy two similar aircraft like the L-159 and T/A-50? Are they meant to be used for different rolls?

    F16's will come, Americans are slow for some reason. Now it says they come in September.

    For the purpose of allowing ISIS to make as much gains as possible, to weaken the Pro-Iranian, Pro-Syrian Shia Maliki govt., to allow un-elected U.S./Saudi puppet Allawi to have significant power in a coalition govt., power he would not normally have. This charade is nothing more than a U.S./Saudi/Qatar/Jordanian/Israeli coup against Maliki's Shia led govt.
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    Post  iraqidabab Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:01 pm

    sheytan do you have a link about the Chinese jet story
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    sheytanelkebir


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    Post  sheytanelkebir Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:35 pm

    it was from a TV interview with the air force commander on sumaria tv.

    he also mentioned that a batch of Mi28 and Mi35s will arrive too.

    but the news of chinese aircraft is sensational. he didn't say "musayara"... implying that they are manned aircraft.

    would be nice to have some JF-17 Block-I for now... and maybe upgrade to block II later.


    a screenshot from the same interview shows freshly delivered FAB bombs... Iraq is already loaded up with massive purchases of S8 rockets.

    Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons - Page 10 10463065_10204223773137450_2941952282298952204_n


    PS/

    so far we've seen:
    5x SU25 delivered from Russia
    5x SU25 returned from Iran

    It is said that Russia is sending a total of 12 SU25s. If true, it would bring the total to about 17 aircraft.
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    Post  Cyberspec Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:36 am

    There should be 10 Russian Su-25's + the Iranian ones already in Iraq

    Iraq receives Russian attack aircraft
    Five Russian-made aircraft were supplied on Tuesday, in addition to five planes received by the Iraqi side on Sunday

    http://en.itar-tass.com/economy/738572
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    Post  iraqidabab Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:28 am

    Iraq's MI 28 Ne


    Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons - Page 10 0_16fc1e_bc72421c_orig
    Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons - Page 10 0_16fc1d_6890ba24_orig
    Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons - Page 10 0_16fc11_f239bc12_orig
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    Post  mack8 Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:17 am

    Fantastic! Is it 100% confirmed? The cammo looks very similar to the Mi-35M's. If so they are identical practically with russian Ns. In fact the izdeliye code is 2941, for russian Mi-28N is 294.

    PS: Yes , i'm 99,99% they are iraqi, one can see the tape covering iraqi markings, just like on the Mi-35Ms.
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    Post  Cyberspec Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:20 am

    Iran has apparently sent over 7 x Su-25's plus pilots. In exchange, they will reportedly recive the often mentioned surplus Su-30K's

    Source
    Seven Su-25 Frogfoot attack planes operated by the Iranian Army of the Guardians of the Islamic Revolution have arrived at Baghdad to join the war against ISIS militants.

    http://theaviationist.com/2014/07/01/iranian-su-25-iraq/
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    Post  sheytanelkebir Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:01 am

    Cyberspec wrote:Iran has apparently sent over 7 x Su-25's plus pilots. In exchange, they will reportedly recive the often mentioned surplus Su-30K's

    Source
    Seven Su-25 Frogfoot attack planes operated by the Iranian Army of the Guardians of the Islamic Revolution have arrived at Baghdad to join the war against ISIS militants.

    http://theaviationist.com/2014/07/01/iranian-su-25-iraq/

    that would be illegal AFAIK. Iraq is not in a position to put itself under an international arms embargo for the sake of iranian-fanboys taking pics of SU-30K in iranian markings Wink
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    Post  Cyberspec Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:20 pm

    Well apparently all involved parties have agreed to the deal....but lets wait for confirmation.

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