Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

Some Makarov pics

Successful test of the Shtil SAM for Adm. Makarov, the attack was simulated by two missile boats firing missiles one after the other.

http://flotprom.ru/2017/%D0%AF%D0%BD%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%8C14/

Adm. Essen fires Kalibrs:

I found this text from 25th of August...if this is true, than I'm not happy. They are talking about the second batch of Grigorovich frigates, one for Russian Navy and two for Indian?! According to this, Russia will receive only 4 frigates untill 2020.

https://navyrecognition.com/index.php/news/defence-news/2017/august-2017-navy-naval-forces-defense-industry-technology-maritime-security-global-news/5510-construction-of-two-project-11356-frigates-laid-down-for-russian-navy-to-be-completed-for-india.html

littlerabbit wrote:I found this text from 25th of August...if this is true, than I'm not happy.  They are talking about the second batch of Grigorovich frigates, one for Russian Navy and two for Indian?! According to this, Russia will receive only 4 frigates untill 2020.

.....................

Wrong

India will get freshly built ones

Russia gets all 6 ships ordered

PapaDragon wrote:

littlerabbit wrote:I found this text from 25th of August...if this is true, than I'm not happy.  They are talking about the second batch of Grigorovich frigates, one for Russian Navy and two for Indian?! According to this, Russia will receive only 4 frigates untill 2020.

.....................

Wrong

India will get freshly built ones

Russia gets all 6 ships ordered

Thanks for the info, I was hoping this text wasn't true.

Depends on your definition of 'powerful'.
If powerful = biggest concentration of new tech then yes.
But powerful = biggest boom would still be Northern or Pacific.

Do agree that more Grigoroviches is a good idea while newer tech stuff is still not ready/if main 22350 class winds up ~8k tons.

The main program of state tests of the frigate "Admiral Makarov" is completed

KALININGRAD, September 26. / Corr. Vladimir Nyakshhev. Press secretary of the Yantar shipyard in the Baltic States Sergey Mikhaylov said that: "The main program of state tests of the Admiral Makarov frigate has been completed and the terms for transferring the ship to the Navy will be determined by agreement with the customer - the Russian Defense Ministry."



In an interview with the factory newspaper Vpered! Sergei Illarionov, head of the Armament and Military Engineering Department of the Yantar factory, participated in all stages of the state tests, noted that "the main tasks of the last part of the state tests were the completion of work with the Shtil anti-aircraft missile system, the elimination of the comments of the state commission on the main power plant, and also repeated checks of the radar station for detection of surface targets. "
Despite the fact that "weather conditions made adjustments in the time of testing, the delivery team and the crew of the ship showed a good result," successfully firing the complex "Shtil" Illarionov stressed.
"There was a lot of work, the plant coped with all tasks" perfectly ", - he stated.

https://nortwolf-sam.livejournal.com/2046647.html

Some updates:

- As per the shipyard (Yantar), the ship is ready to be handed over to the Navy.
- The commissioning ceremony could be held as early as tomorrow.
- The reason why the testing took so long is because of the improvements that Admiral Makarov has over its sister ships. It uses SHTIL anti-air missiles with ACTIVE HOMING guidance. The tests for that required some additional time.

Second troika 11356: decision taken

Until recently, in the muddled theme of the fate of 4-6 Corps of the TFR Prospect 11356, built at the Yantar shipyard for the Russian fleet, I adhered to the statement of the deputy head of the Navy for arming V. Bursuk at IMDS-2017 (on the one hand, out of respect for the vice -admiral shoulder straps and technical degree, on the other - because what I said reflected my personal point of view on this issue): "We went to meet our foreign partners who want to buy frigates of this project, but the second three ships of the series already laid on" Yantar "will completed transferred to the Navy [Russia] "(01.07 - Reference 1). The statement of another respected person - the USC vice-president on military shipbuilding and the new director (crisis manager) of the Northern Shipyard I. Ponomarev, voiced near the end of August (23.08), I considered it a good thing to write off at the expense of a "spoiled phone."


1. On a satellite image from Google (2017) on an open pit of the Yantar shipyard you can see (from left to right, from top to bottom) "Gorigledjana" (Project 02670), Petr Morgunov (Project 11711), Istomin and Kornilov


I am sure that V. Bursuk did not fantasize (he did not compose on the move). Most likely, he expressed the decision to which the military-political leadership of the country was inclined in early July. The Vice Admiral's fault is that he informed "on camera" of the planned yet unresolved decision (not documented by presidential decree), and this his puncture will not be forgotten now (the blog already mentioned the need for a unified information policy in the defense sphere , which presupposes, among other things, the inadmissibility of any premature, purely personal statements of secrets carriers from which ideas are confused). By the beginning of the forum "Army-2017", held August 22-27, the line of fate head. №№ 01360 and 01361 (mortgaged as "Admiral Butakov" and "Admiral Istomin") for unknown reasons was drawn anew, as two statesmen unequivocally stated, which there are no grounds not to trust (the original).

I must admit that I knew about the statement of "civilian" Deputy Minister of Defense Y. Borisov, but by the will of fate it was in the attic of my database and thoroughly forgotten. Meanwhile, it is Borisov's statement, but not in itself, but paired with Ponomarev's statement, which makes it possible to fold a mosaic of disparate contradictory facts. I. Ponomarev: "Two ships will be built for the Indian side, and one ship will be built for the Russian Navy - with new gas turbine engines ... We expect that after the completion of these works the Navy will decide to order at least two more frigates of this project "(ref. 2); Yury Borisov: "It is planned [the creation of two SKR prospect 11356 and two NAPL pr.677], but this is still a project." All these events are the subject of a new state armaments program that will start in 2018 [after it is approved by the GDP] " (ref. 3).

It should be assumed that during the implementation of the ROC by the forces of the Northern Design Bureau and the "ODK-Saturn", the need for significant alterations (re-arrangement) of the already formed engine compartments of orders 01360 and 01361 for new gas turbine units (most likely, each of the two GTAs will be a pair of GTE M70FRU for 14000 hp maximum with a total reversing gear). As for the order 01362 (known as the "Admiral Kornilov"), it was already taken out of the shed to fresh air (to an open slipway), but without add-ons (photo 1) and, judging by the painted body (photo 2), it might even be brought down in this form on the water, which subsequently will greatly facilitate the task of adapting the hull structures to the new power plant. In the end, from the two options - the alterations of the formed buildings to the new GEM and the laying of new ones under the finalized project, apparently, the second one was chosen. Without complete information, it is difficult to judge the correctness of the decision, but there is every reason to believe that it does not run counter to the interests of the Russian Navy (first of all, in terms of the completion of the construction of six SSF for the Black Sea Fleet).

In general, there is a lot of work to be done: Saturn will need to develop a prototype GTA, which is not available at the moment (there is only an engine), to make it, to test it and launch it in series (*), and the SPKB - to amend the technical design 11356 and design engineering documentation for "Amber". However, it is not necessary to wait for the completion of this work - two TFRs can be mortgaged immediately after the approval of the GPU (in 2018), but on one condition - for this it is necessary first to release the stalled places in the covered slipway, which is impossible without the descent of the now-former Istomin and "Kornilov," as well as "Gorigledjana" and "Morgunov". Now the boathouse is occupied by two rather large orders - OIS (Oceanographic Research Vessel) Almaz (av. 22010, 5700 tons full, 108 m nb?) And the vessel providing emergency rescue operations of Voevod (23700, 7500 tons, 111 m) with a delivery date to customers in 2019.

"Almaz", laid two months after the withdrawal of the "Morgunov" hull and therefore, most likely, being built on the second slip line (in photo 1 it is from above), should move to an open slipway in time and without any problems, since the BDK plan to launch on the water in the next month (of course, after the OIS "Eugene Gorigledjan"). The shift to the right, even for six months, does not change anything here - the new Butakov can (and should) be laid in 2018. But "Istomin I" and "Kornilov" will have to be unfinished (to release the "Voevoda") and put to the embankment to wait for their GTA. The fate of the Indian frigate with Ukrainian engines interests me a little (if not to say that it does not interest at all), and at the head. No. 01362, there is a chance to get the Rybinsk aggregates no later than 2020 and to join the Russian Navy in 2022 - a year earlier than Butakov II and Istomin II (which, in my opinion, is not so bad).

Theoretically (taking into account the fact that the two stacking lines simultaneously accommodate six orders with the largest length of about 120 m), one could hold Kornilov on the shore before the GTA supply, but in this case it would be necessary to play a little orders, moving them from one line to another . Such a permutation is possible with the device described in the following quote: "In some cases, depending on the location of the construction sites, there is a need to move the blocks and the whole ship not only in the longitudinal but also in the transverse direction. ie, welded trusses moving along the rails along the rails perpendicular to the longitudinal axis of the vessel.The vessel on the trolleys is rolled longitudinally to the trans-bender and transverses with it. Moves in the trans-harbor pit - a recessed area in the shipyard - with the help of winches ... the length of the cross-benders reaches 160 m. "(Fundamentals of shipbuilding technology, edited by V. Matskevich, Shipbuilding, L., 1980, p. 191). However, neither on the site of the enterprise, nor in the factory newspaper "Vpered!" I did not have to meet any references to the trans-benders used on "Yantar".

(*) Note. Develop and run in the series of GTA for only three TFRs, there is no particular sense. It seems that there are plans for a wider use of new units based on the GT70 MTCFG on both domestic and export ships. In the first case, it could be six for 11356 for the Pacific Fleet and, perhaps, some (at least three) for the Baltic, in the second - at least two conditionally similar frigates that will be built in India, and ships that can be built on the " Yantar "for potential foreign customers (after the successful combat use of" Grigorovich "and" Essen "in the eastern Mediterranean, frigates pr. 11356" plan to purchase many countries "- reference 4).

https://navy-korabel.livejournal.com/172774.html#cutid1

All those words & I'm still unclear whether he is saying the plan is to build all 6 for Russia or do the sale to India?


Meanwhile via Balancer http://dfnc.ru/c106-technika/admiral-makarov-gotovitsya-k-zavershayushhemu-etapu-ispytanij/ with some interesting info on the Active Shtil-1

Google translate wrote: "Shtil", installed on the frigates "Admiral Grigorovich" and "Admiral Essen" has a "standard" execution, and their ammunition consists of 9M317M anti-aircraft guided missiles (SAM). These data are used in the "land" anti-aircraft missile system "Buk-M2". The 9M317 missile has a combined control system - command-inertial at the initial stage of flight and semi-active at the final stage. At the initial stage of the ZUR mission, it moves to the target on an inertial autopilot, which receives commands to correct the trajectory from the general-purpose Fregat-M2M radar, at the final stage of the flight the missile switches to semi-active homing, while providing its special radar for the MR-90 target illumination ", which on frigate 4 - on 2 from each side. Radar "Nut" This is a single channel and this is the main drawback of the whole complex. Despite the fact that the "Fregat-M2M" radar makes it possible to carry out a radio correction to 12 SAMs in flight, in the final stage only 2 (in attacking enemy air attacks from one direction) or 4 (with a two-way attack) can be guided . The semi-active homing site takes a few seconds to meet the target. This forces, when attacking air targets, to launch rockets in batches according to the number of available radar lights at intervals of a few seconds, which is very critical in repulsing, say, a sufficiently massive attack of enemy anti-ship missiles (RCPs). The same method of targeting missiles is also used on American ships equipped with the Aegis multipurpose weapon system,

However, for the Shtil-1 missile system, a variant of the "expansion" was planned, involving the equipping of the complex with new anti-aircraft missiles 9M317MA with active homing heads. These missiles are used in the latest "land" medium-range air defense system Buk-M3. The use of missiles with active GOS enhances the combat capabilities of "Shtil" by an order of magnitude - there is no need to illuminate the target in the final sector and hence the need to organize a "queue" from the missile system in such a way that the number of missiles equal to the number of radar lights, missiles equal to the number of "correction channels" of the ship's multifunctional radar without any "intervals".

Initially, to equip the ZUR with active GOS, the frigates of project 11356 were supposed to begin with "Admiral Butakov", the first frigate of the second "troika". However, the construction of the three frigates following Admiral Makarov was halted due to Ukraine's unilateral break with military technical cooperation with Russia

hoom wrote:All those words & I'm still unclear whether he is saying the plan is to build all 6 for Russia or do the sale to India?
..................

Yeah, can someone clarify that? Machine translation ripped the text to shreds.

Another Shtil missile system battle exercise. I am calling it an exercise since the ships test and evaluation period is over. Two ships, Geizer and Liven, alternatively launched cruise missile targets at Adm. Makarov.

http://tass.com/defense/974686

It seams that two missile targets where fired at the same time.

Apparently Admiral Istomin and Admiral Kornilov have been launched.
http://kuleshovoleg.ru/?p=1821

Luq man wrote:Apparently Admiral Istomin and Admiral Kornilov have been launched.
http://kuleshovoleg.ru/?p=1821

What does it mean?  Have they already got new Russian engines for those two ships, is it possible, so quickly?!

littlerabbit wrote:

Luq man wrote:Apparently Admiral Istomin and Admiral Kornilov have been launched.
http://kuleshovoleg.ru/?p=1821

What does it mean?  Have they already got new Russian engines for those two ships, is it possible, so quickly?!

I think everyone wants to know the answer to those questions.


Another source: https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/100366/

littlerabbit wrote:

Luq man wrote:Apparently Admiral Istomin and Admiral Kornilov have been launched.
http://kuleshovoleg.ru/?p=1821

What does it mean?  Have they already got new Russian engines for those two ships, is it possible, so quickly?!

They better have these problems sorted by 2018. The second part of this program is already some good years late.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:

littlerabbit wrote:

Luq man wrote:Apparently Admiral Istomin and Admiral Kornilov have been launched.
http://kuleshovoleg.ru/?p=1821

What does it mean?  Have they already got new Russian engines for those two ships, is it possible, so quickly?!

Engines yes from what I have seen, construction is planned to resume in 2018 from what was agreed between Yantar and MoD

additionally there was talk about R&D work needing to be done, so perhaps they plan to maybe upgrade weapon systems I do not have those specific details at this time.

let me guess there, will be no extra 12 cells of Shtill-1 added?

Is it possible in Project 11356 to remove/install gas turbines without having to cut any part of the hull and superstructure?

If remembering correctly, some ships in the past were designed so to be able to move their gas turbines along the chimney, after having dismantled all of the internal ducts and piping, of course.

If such an arrangement is present in the 11356s too, it could mean they have at least finalized the new turbines and are able to complete the ships and just install the gas turbines and related air and fumes' ducts at a later time.

By the way, I have long wondered why there was no chance in Russia to overhaul and rebuild some other turbines' set saved from older ship non longer operative. Maybe they would have a short life spared in them, still it could have granted a timely induction, even if at the cost of almost a major overhaul as soon as the new turbines become available.

As far as I'm aware of, maintenance of older turbines in Russian Navy is performed mainly or totally in Russian yards and facilities, even if with spare parts provided by ukrainian companies.

Would it have been without hope of success trying to give a new life to some old power generation set saved from dismissed ships?

Each ship had their own design so the likelyhood the engine could be taken from it and adapted to a new vessel is pretty low.

The modifications required it would just be cheaper to upgrade the ship the engine was previously in.

I think they just put them in the water to clear space like they did previously with the 4th hull.

Big bunch of pics of Essen arriving at Sevastopol last month http://foto-i-mir.ru/11356-essen-171015/

Admiral Makarov delivered to Navy

https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/102164/