Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

Admiral Grigorovich should arrive in Sevastopol on June 9th.

Admiral Essen:





















http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/78699/

The RussianNavy frigate Admiral Grigorovich in Malta:









Source: http://molotovspotting.livejournal.com

Admiral Grigorovich passes the Bosporus:























http://nortwolf-sam.livejournal.com/1345653.html#cutid1

Super shots of the Admiral

Anyone know why the VL Shtil was changed from the original 36 nos (as displayed in the model) to 24 nos?

I hope Essen will soon sail to Sevastopol as well to join the fleet there.

medo wrote:I hope Essen will soon sail to Sevastopol as well to join the fleet there.

It's on it's way now. Should arrive tomorrow.

PapaDragon wrote:

medo wrote:I hope Essen will soon sail to Sevastopol as well to join the fleet there.

It's on it's way now. Should arrive tomorrow.

Tomorrow will arrive Grigorovich, not Essen, which is still in Baltic.

medo wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

medo wrote:I hope Essen will soon sail to Sevastopol as well to join the fleet there.

It's on it's way now. Should arrive tomorrow.

Tomorrow will arrive Grigorovich, not Essen, which is still in Baltic.

Dammit, I should pay attention!!!!

PapaDragon wrote: Dammit, I should pay attention!!!!

well look for positives! now you are on pair with royal Navy

I still don't entirely know what to make of the Grigoroviches:
When I first saw them I was like 'meh, a nice looking ship but using obsolete Soviet era stuff'
Then 'OK it's got UKSK & VL Buk, so thats something of an improvement but still mostly old Soviet electronics'  

But when looked at in more detail recently its actually using an all new missile & while the radars etc look like old Soviet stuff:
A: the old Soviet stuff had quite impressive capabilities
B: they are post-2000 & even post-2010 versions with modern digital electronics -> significant capability upgrades vs old Soviet stuff

But still Shtil-1 is a pretty large yet distinctly medium-range AAM that requires separate target illuminators, the number carried is a bit on the low side, lacks a short range missile, its only got AK630s for CIWS & 'only' 8* UKSK.

On the one hand the capability compares well with most post 1990 ships of similar displacement (& a bunch of bigger ones).
On the other hand it feels like it'd be a much better rounded out capability with Palash/Naval Pantsir, 16* UKSK & 36* Shtil-1 (though would impinge on Gorshkov capability wise & would no longer be a cheap/quick cover for Gorshkov delays), or it needs to be in much bigger numbers like the 20+ Chinese Type 054A, maybe once domestic engine production gets going they can build 6* each for Pacific & Northern fleets? (but again, if possible you'd want Gorshkovs if the production availability is there)

Just wondering: What kind of sonar suite does this class carry?

hoom wrote:I still don't entirely know what to make of the Grigoroviches:
When I first saw them I was like 'meh, a nice looking ship but using obsolete Soviet era stuff'
Then 'OK it's got UKSK & VL Buk, so thats something of an improvement but still mostly old Soviet electronics'  

But when looked at in more detail recently its actually using an all new missile & while the radars etc look like old Soviet stuff:
A: the old Soviet stuff had quite impressive capabilities
B: they are post-2000 & even post-2010 versions with modern digital electronics -> significant capability upgrades vs old Soviet stuff

But still Shtil-1 is a pretty large yet distinctly medium-range AAM that requires separate target illuminators, the number carried is a bit on the low side, lacks a short range missile, its only got AK630s for CIWS & 'only' 8* UKSK.

On the one hand the capability compares well with most post 1990 ships of similar displacement (& a bunch of bigger ones).
On the other hand it feels like it'd be a much better rounded out capability with Palash/Naval Pantsir, 16* UKSK & 36* Shtil-1 (though would impinge on Gorshkov capability wise & would no longer be a cheap/quick cover for Gorshkov delays), or it needs to be in much bigger numbers like the 20+ Chinese Type 054A, maybe once domestic engine production gets going they can build 6* each for Pacific & Northern fleets? (but again, if possible you'd want Gorshkovs if the production availability is there)

This class is selected to solve very specific problem. Since 80s Black Sea fleet did not receive a single new vessel and it's overall condition has been very poor.

Once Crimea rejoined Russia and tentions flared up they needed to boost the fleet strength quickly. That is why they selected this class. It may not be perfect but it is more than good enough to take on Turkish  Navy or other NATO vessels if they enter Black Sea where Russian Navy has clear advantage due to mainland proximity.

They are also relatively cheap and could be built quickly. Engines for last two turned out to be problematic but it will be sorted out eventually.

Six Grigorovich class ships combined with six Buyan-M missile boats will be enough for BSF to ''weather the storm'' until Gorshkov frigates and Gremashi corvettes(or something newer) become available in numbers.

Admiral Grigorovich arrived in Sevastopol





http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/78831/

PapaDragon wrote:
Admiral Grigorovich arrived in Sevastopol  

5 to go now. It's about time that fleet started to resemble one.

What kind of donor suite dose this class carry?

Sonar?
Indian Talwars have a 'Humsa' bow sonar http://www.bel-india.com/?q=HUMSA-NG & some sort of towed sonar
http://www.severnoe.com/en/ships/mtc/11356/

Severnoe page I think says 3 different sonars http://www.severnoe.com/en/offers/warships/11356/
MGK-335-EM-03 would be the bow sonar http://www.oceanpribor.ru/docs/mgk-335-em-03.pdf (in Russian)
This one also quotes MGK-335-03 http://russianships.info/boevye/11356.htm

MGK-335 are on Udaloi class, so this would be a development of that.
There seem to be large -03 & smaller -05 versions available.
20380 uses a different development branch 'Zarya-02' & I think 22350 uses a Zarya version too.

This class is selected to solve very specific problem. Since 80s Black Sea fleet did not receive a single new vessel and it's overall condition has been very poor.

Once Crimea rejoined Russia and tentions flared up they needed to boost the fleet strength quickly. That is why they selected this class. It may not be perfect but it is more than good enough to take on Turkish Navy or other NATO vessels if they enter Black Sea where Russian Navy has clear advantage due to mainland proximity.

Well yeah, absolutely better than nothing.
Though Grigorovich is laid down in 2010 & Essen in 2011 -> predates the recent developments.

Admiral Grigorovich arrived in Sevastopol thumbsup

Great! Malta -> Sevastopol a lot quicker than Baltiysk -> Malta (though that is like 3 times further)
Hopefully Essen will follow quickly.

hoom wrote:I still don't entirely know what to make of the Grigoroviches:
When I first saw them I was like 'meh, a nice looking ship but using obsolete Soviet era stuff'
Then 'OK it's got UKSK & VL Buk, so thats something of an improvement but still mostly old Soviet electronics'  

But when looked at in more detail recently its actually using an all new missile & while the radars etc look like old Soviet stuff:
A: the old Soviet stuff had quite impressive capabilities
B: they are post-2000 & even post-2010 versions with modern digital electronics -> significant capability upgrades vs old Soviet stuff

Yes looks can be decieving.
11356 is an up-to-date frigate that can give a bloody nose to any of its opponents. But I would have loved to see those 36 AD missiles instead of 24.

But still Shtil-1 is a pretty large yet distinctly medium-range AAM that requires separate target illuminators, the number carried is a bit on the low side, lacks a short range missile, its only got AK630s for CIWS & 'only' 8* UKSK.

Yes, the missiles carried looks on the lower side and I would have preferred more AD missiles. 8 UKSK is good enough IMHO. Ak-360 can be replaced by the Palash and it was probably done due to cost cutting nothing else. They wanted a capable frigate at a very low cost and hence cut whatever they could without affecting its capability.

On the one hand the capability compares well with most post 1990 ships of similar displacement (& a bunch of bigger ones).
On the other hand it feels like it'd be a much better rounded out capability with Palash/Naval Pantsir, 16* UKSK & 36* Shtil-1 (though would impinge on Gorshkov capability wise & would no longer be a cheap/quick cover for Gorshkov delays), or it needs to be in much bigger numbers like the 20+ Chinese Type 054A, maybe once domestic engine production gets going they can build 6* each for Pacific & Northern fleets? (but again, if possible you'd want Gorshkovs if the production availability is there)

I would like to see the 11356 and 22350 production run in parallel and more orders for 11356 with upgraded capability (something like my wishlist below).
I strongly believe in the upgrade potential of 11356 which has not yet exhausted. I hope Russians are considering further upgrade of the 11356. I have had some thoughts on the stuff and visualize a 11356 with those stuffs.

My wishlist/upgrade include
1) - New integrated mast (as displayed by the Phazatron NIIR, posted below)
2) - 6m hull extension (130m overall length, up from 124m) from aft of exhaust stack to facilitate
- atleast 36 cell VLS for AD missile
- shift boats and launch apparatus along this flank to free amidship area for missiles
3) 16-32 x Kh-35U amidship aft of the bridge structure (navy needs low cost but capable missiles)

I'm posting all the pics that I had saved from the Phazatron NIIR website as that website doesnt exist now.









Submarine mast search/track


MiG-29/35 radar Zhuk-AE

hoom wrote:..............

This class is selected to solve very specific problem. Since 80s Black Sea fleet did not receive a single new vessel and it's overall condition has been very poor.

Once Crimea rejoined Russia and tentions flared up they needed to boost the fleet strength quickly. That is why they selected this class. It may not be perfect but it is more than good enough to take on Turkish  Navy or other NATO vessels if they enter Black Sea where Russian Navy has clear advantage due to mainland proximity.

Well yeah, absolutely better than nothing.
Though Grigorovich is laid down in 2010 & Essen in 2011 -> predates the recent developments.

...........................

Yeah but they were probably ordered at least a decade prior given the disaster that Russian shipbuilding was back then. And definitely lot less than 6. Good thing is that they made the best of bad situation.

PapaDragon wrote:they were probably ordered at least a decade prior given the disaster that Russian shipbuilding was back then. And definitely lot less than 6. Good thing is that they made the best of bad situation.

Their projects are still in big trouble, as after one decade of "good days" they can't seem to induct even the slashed numbers that their Navy required. Be it due to their leadership ordering engines from an enemy pro-NATO neighbor or due to EU (i.e. NATO) embargoing them (what a surprise, as if US Navy ordered Belarussian engines for the Burkes). If one adds the NATO superiority in submarines and ASW frigates in the region (Black Sea & Med), RuN ought to get more capable platforms, in service quite soon. Glorified FAC/corvettes and a few upgraded, but basically 80s-designed SSKs aint gonna cut it.

First modern ship to enter BLS fleet. Time to discard old ships like Krivak class.. Excellent!

George1 wrote:First modern ship to enter BLS fleet. Time to discard old ships like Krivak class.. Excellent!

Come to think of it, this class is an evolved Krivak of sorts.
Interestingly enough, some Krivak I and all Krivak III incl. the sole Ukrainian frigate, were built in Kerch, Crimea shipyard until the early '90s.

KiloGolf wrote:

George1 wrote:First modern ship to enter BLS fleet. Time to discard old ships like Krivak class.. Excellent!

Come to think of it, this class is an evolved Krivak of sorts.
Interestingly enough, some Krivak I and all Krivak III incl. the sole Ukrainian frigate, were built in Kerch, Crimea shipyard in the early '90s.

Yes but it has no relation in armament carrying compared to Krivak I,II classes which were actually large antisubmarine ships only

George1 wrote:

KiloGolf wrote:

George1 wrote:First modern ship to enter BLS fleet. Time to discard old ships like Krivak class.. Excellent!

Come to think of it, this class is an evolved Krivak of sorts.
Interestingly enough, some Krivak I and all Krivak III incl. the sole Ukrainian frigate, were built in Kerch, Crimea shipyard in the early '90s.

Yes but it has no relation in armament carrying compared to Krivak I,II classes which were actually large antisubmarine ships only

Yeah, it's a truly multipurpose Krivak, unlike the Soviet batches. And compared to what NATO fields in the Black Sea, it is the better ship.
Long overdue for the Russians I might add.

KiloGolf wrote: Yeah, it's a truly multipurpose Krivak, unlike the Soviet batches. And compared to what NATO fields in the Black Sea, it is the better ship.
Long overdue for the Russians I might add.

Just wonder why not 3x12 Shtil-1 launchers...Not mucho of AAD cover for BSF ships then - Buyans/22800 have only short ragne. Old ones with osa? ekhm...only 1 cruiser with S-300 but that´s it.


6x36 Buks mgiht help to protect smaller units tho.