VKS trainer aircrafts status and needs

GarryB wrote:Just found this article from Tass:

29 Jun 2018, 21: 55 updated 30 Jun 2018, 06: 31
Production of the MiG-at can be resumed in Russia
The Ministry of defense is considering using this aircraft for basic training

MOSCOW, June 29. /TASS/. The MiG-at training aircraft, created in the early 1990s, may begin to be delivered again to the Russian defense Ministry. This was announced on Friday by the General designer - Vice President of the United aircraft Corporation (UAC) Sergey Korotkov.

"The defense Ministry is considering the possibility of using this aircraft as a base for basic training. There are no old aircraft, there are resource indicators of the aircraft," he said.

In turn, the head of the Federation Council's defense and security Committee, Viktor Bondarev, clarified in an interview with TASS that the proposed date for resuming production of this aircraft is 2023. "We are talking about the fact that this aircraft can begin to enter the air force in 2023," the Senator explained, noting that the existing backlog for the MiG - at program could speed up its resumption.

The MiG-at is a basic training aircraft of unified training. It can be used for the combat use of unguided weapons on land and sea targets. The MiG-at lost to the Yak-130 in the tender for the selection of the main combat training aircraft of the Russian air force, after which work on it was curtailed in 2010.

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5335490

Making the internal components of the L-39 all Russian is a good step, but it actually being a Russian design would be better... even if those Russianised components could be used to make the new MiG AT trainers...

medo wrote:

mnztr wrote:Isn't the MIG-AT pretty much as sophisticated as the YAK-130 and therefore pretty much as expensive? Plus it has French engines.

The first prototype have french engines, next have Russian Saturn AL-55 engines, which could be also used for L-39 as SR-10 could use both AL-55 and engine from L-39. MiG-AT is more classical design and could be a little cheaper than Yak-130, but it is still advanced trainer. Russia need basic trainer, what Yak-152 should be. Considering, that RuAF already buy Diamond DA42 trainers, they could as well buy some DA40 for basic trainers, until Yak-152 is available. Considering, that Klimov is now testing VK-650 engine, they could made it as turboprop engine and use in turboprop version of Yak-152 for the use between basic trainer and advanced jet trainers Yak-130/MiG-AT instead of L-39.

GarryB wrote:
But its foreign ownership issues make it highly undesirable...

marcellogo wrote:Not: almost if our experience with M-346 is taken into account.
Transitioning from a propeller plane to a jet is quite a jump, transitioning directly from such to an high performance one a long one.
From one of such to the trainer version of an operative fighter, even worse.

In the end AMI found that introducing M-345 between the two was the best option, not just from p.o.w. of easy transitioning between different phases but also economically IF COUPLED WITH an high performance primary trainer.
Primary would so eat up a part previously performed by the former basic one (M-339) , M-345 would perform uo to the 90% of the rest of previous basic one more economically, extra cost of performing the remaining 10% with the M-346 is more than compensated by it "eating up" a large part of that previously performed on the OCU fighter.

GarryB wrote:Having a single engine does not by necessity make an aircraft simpler and cheaper to operate and maintain... F-35s are single engine fighters too.

AFAIK the Yak-130 got the nod because its sophisticated flight control system allowed its flight performance to be dialed to suit a specific aircrafts flight behaviour and envelop.

It also won because it could carry a weapon payload of 3 tons and there fore also be used as a light attack aircraft or small fighter if needed... those these options have not been realised yet.

I would think a scaled down MiG AT should not be hard to achieve, and they are hardly overwhelmed with work at the moment so it might get some factories working that are otherwise not very busy.

I definitely think the Yak-152 needs a Russian engine, and while it is a gas turbine driven turboprop I would think designing it to run on diesel would make it more affordable for aircraft training clubs across Russia.

Rodion_Romanovic wrote:...
the current German engine (designed by a Russian engineer and which development was paid by Russian money) for the yak 152 is a 500 hp diesel engine.
I believe one of the alternative is an engine derived from the one on the Aurus car.