Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

Viktor wrote:

cracker wrote:what's the armament of boomerang? turret looks small. KPVT ?

I believe than Epoha turets are ultimatively meant for APC version of Bumerang, Kruganets and Armata. I think that we have yet to see IFV version of those three
btw - Soviet red flags looks epic !

KoTeMoRe wrote:

Acheron wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:
Since RTD has been working with Russia since 2011 on the Atom program and we have a Boomerang that has striking similarities with both the VBCI and the AMV from Patria. Given the Patria/Rosomak was never a factor.

Since we have Igor Sevastianov saying in the middle of june that the Atom was ongoing. And since the final product has one similarity too many to be simple coincidence.

The day the Boomerang will be open to laymen eyes, the ergonomics will betray the RTD origins. And there is nothing wrong with that, as long as the Russian MOD finds everything it needs on the Boomerang.

Alternatively, the Russians could have simply created a vehicle that is externally similar to VBCI because, let's face it, all of the contemporary 8x8 AFVs that fulfill the same purpose (VBCI, Patria, Boxer, Pandur, Freccia, etc...) tend to look like clones of each other from a superficial outside perspective. We won't really know for certain until the full specifications and the interior components of Boomerang are fully disclosed for comparison with its foreign compatriots (or until someone on the design team will confirm it).

I agree in full and subscribe to your assessment that form will follow function. However, as I said, I wouldn't be surprised at all if we were to learn that indeed there is RTD DNA within Boomerang. And again, this isn't a jab at the Russian MIC, quite the contrary. The project looks solid and exceptionally well finished, especially when compared with the Chinese VN-1/ZDBL range.

Plus check the production shots from NExter and compare the cutouts with the Russian Boomerang.

KoTeMoRe wrote:And again, this isn't a jab at the Russian MIC, quite the contrary.

2SPOOKY4U wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

Acheron wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:
Since RTD has been working with Russia since 2011 on the Atom program and we have a Boomerang that has striking similarities with both the VBCI and the AMV from Patria. Given the Patria/Rosomak was never a factor.

Since we have Igor Sevastianov saying in the middle of june that the Atom was ongoing. And since the final product has one similarity too many to be simple coincidence.

The day the Boomerang will be open to laymen eyes, the ergonomics will betray the RTD origins. And there is nothing wrong with that, as long as the Russian MOD finds everything it needs on the Boomerang.

Alternatively, the Russians could have simply created a vehicle that is externally similar to VBCI because, let's face it, all of the contemporary 8x8 AFVs that fulfill the same purpose (VBCI, Patria, Boxer, Pandur, Freccia, etc...) tend to look like clones of each other from a superficial outside perspective. We won't really know for certain until the full specifications and the interior components of Boomerang are fully disclosed for comparison with its foreign compatriots (or until someone on the design team will confirm it).

I agree in full and subscribe to your assessment that form will follow function. However, as I said, I wouldn't be surprised at all if we were to learn that indeed there is RTD DNA within Boomerang. And again, this isn't a jab at the Russian MIC, quite the contrary. The project looks solid and exceptionally well finished, especially when compared with the Chinese VN-1/ZDBL range.

Plus check the production shots from NExter and compare the cutouts with the Russian Boomerang.

Looking like a parallelogram on wheels does not mean it has "RTD DNA within Boomerang" and neither that is was developed in the same time window of Atom also signifies RTD input.

KoTeMoRe wrote:And again, this isn't a jab at the Russian MIC, quite the contrary.

Implying that Frenchies had a hand in developing anything is always an insult, no matter how you intend it.

KoTeMoRe wrote:Hehe Osobist on MP.net made also a stingy observation on the Armata Led's. It was russian alright because one was nicked.

Yeah well as I said, I hope the Boomerang is 100% local...

EKS wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:Hehe Osobist on MP.net made also a stingy observation on the Armata Led's. It was russian alright because one was nicked.

Yeah well as I said, I hope the Boomerang is 100% local...

Boomerang can't be anything but local. Although, From a strategic point of view. But i agree that Some features, from a design point of view, look a bit Like some western models, but it's only the shape. The important systems are russian tech.

Werewolf wrote:

EKS wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:Hehe Osobist on MP.net made also a stingy observation on the Armata Led's. It was russian alright because one was nicked.

Yeah well as I said, I hope the Boomerang is 100% local...

Boomerang can't be anything but local. Although, From a strategic point of view. But i agree that Some features, from a design point of view, look a bit Like some western models, but it's only the shape. The important systems are russian tech.

So now russia relies on western countries to use a form/shape of the chassis

TR1 wrote:https://i.imgur.com/odADS4d.jpg

Turn up the contrast on this one- good detail behind the wheels.

Regular wrote:Nice catch man. I noticed that Russian army was using western tires a lot, nice to see Belarussians are having their slice.

Brovich wrote:Just created the Kurganets-25 Wikipedia page. THIS

Feel free to add sourced info.

Regular wrote:Nice catch man. I noticed that Russian army was using western tires a lot, nice to see Belarussians are having their slice.
Ok, I've seen someone claiming that Armata is a copy of AMX Leclerc, so is it safe to assume that Kurganets is a copy of AMX-10P and Bumerang is VBCI.. And Putin is a copy of Napoleon.

Boomerang is larger compared to the BTR-80, and most importantly - has a different layout. You may notice that the combat unit moved closer to the rear of the machine. Obviously, the engine moved to the front of the armored car, and it has a rear ramp"- said military expert Ilya Kramnik.

"Boomerang" - is not only an APC, it is a universal wheeled platform of middle weight category, created by LLC "Military-Industrial Company". In accordance with the tactical and technical requirements of the Ministry of Defence, it will be equipped with different combat modules that will perform the task of air defense, Anti Tank, Recon, evacuation of the wounded from the battlefield.

According to information from public sources, the latest Russian armored vehicle has undergone several incarnations before there was this vehicle that participates in the Victory Parade rehearsal. Initially, the project was called not "Boomerang" but "Gilza".

According to some reports, the project planned to use the maximum components of the BTR-90 Rostok. The Russian military abandoned the BTR-90, (according to one version) because it did not meet modern requirements. The project "Gilza" involved the installation of the engine in the middle of the vehicle, and the combat module would partially unify the weapons that are used on the BTR-82. It was also planned to install a lightweight APS.

The existence of Boomerang was first acknowledged in Oct 2010

The need to create a new armored personnel carriers, arose primarily due to lower mine-protection of previous models.

The old Soviet APCs have low mine protection, and it was impossible to raise the anti-mine protection sufficiently via modernization of older models. A new model was required. "Boomerang" protection level will be much higher. This is ensured by special shape of the bottom, the internal layout and in particular, suspension crew seats to the ceiling, "- said Ilya Kramnik.


There was also the need to increase the internal volume of the machine. "Soviet APCs are cramped inside. The average size of today's soldiers is bigger compared to the 1950/60's and flak jackets and vests were not widely used. It's a global trend of increasing armored personnel carriers and here we are just catching up".


According to unconfirmed information, officially, the new APC has a chance to become an armored vehicle equipped with active protection systems (KAZ). If these reports are correct, in terms of security "Boomerang" will be a leader among the wheeled armored personnel carriers, having protection against tank attack.


So far, very little is known about the combat unit of the new machine, in rehearsals in Alabino it is disguised. However, experts say there may be set a different set of weapons, depending on the tasks: machine gun mount for internal troops or remote module with a larger caliber weapons. It is known that on the basis of "Boomerang" is planned, even the creation of self-propelled artillery.



According to information from public sources, one of the possible weapon systems can be developed by JSC "Instrument Design Bureau" (CPP) in Tula combat module "Boomerang-BM" with a 30-mm gun with 500 rounds of ammunition, firing range of up to 4000 m, machine gun , automatic grenade launcher and "Kornet" missiles. Automatic fire control system module allows you to search purposes in different spectral bands using an optical locator to find camouflaged targets.

The Machines in Alabino are BTR version reportedly armed only with 12,7mm MG module.

Military experts believe that BTR "Boomerang" is equipped with modern control, reconnaissance and navigation equipment, including a single system of tactical control (ESU TK). The system provides the unit commander complete picture - the position of each machine during the battle, as well as data on the nature of their equipment damage.

http://www.arms-expo.ru/analytics/novye-razrabotki-/effekt-bumeranga-novyy-rossiyskiy-btr-otrazit-dazhe-tankovuyu-ataku/

Zivo wrote:

So, is the consensus that this is "Stardard" APS? And were the hell are the Kords at?

To be honest, even the most heavily armoured wheeled IFV (and its crew) is going to have a very bad day if engaged with anything more serious than a KPVT.

Hence, unless someone is actually going to release a wheeled IFV which integrates non-passive armouring options seen on current and prospective MBTs, I am going to treat the protection levels of such vehicles with suspicion, no matter whether they are BTR, VBCI, Boxer or Boomerang.

what's the armament of boomerang? turret looks small. KPVT ?

I think that the APCs for the entire 3 families have the 14.5 mm gun, and the IFVs have the 30mm gun.

I believe that later in time, and mabee it will take 5 years, the IFVs will have the 57mm gun, and the APCs will have the 45mm gun.

GarryB wrote:
Well the Typhoon will likely be 14.5mm ammo proof from all angles... the 25 ton class boomerang and kurganets should be 30mm proof at least from the front... the 18 ton BMP-3 already is...

GarryB wrote:
Add to that that the biggest threat to IFVs on the battlefield are RPGs and a decent APS would make them much safer.

GarryB wrote:
The Kurganets is heavier and better protected than a BMP-3, and the Boomerang has similar protection to the Kurganets...