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    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

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    etaepsilonk

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    Post  etaepsilonk on Tue Jan 07, 2014 5:40 pm

    To Mindstorm:
    Thanks for those secondary sources. Now, that's a confirmation indeed.

    To Regular:
    Sorry, I don't remember the link.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:53 am

    To Mindstorm:
    Thanks for those secondary sources. Now, that's a confirmation indeed

    My vote to you... a real man admits when they are wrong... (it is not the end of the world... happens to me quite a bit too...)

    On that topic... I suspect I might have been wrong about the MSTA regarding direct line of fire capability.

    The older 2S3 had direct line of fire capability and was even able to fire a dedicated direct line of fire anti armour round that was APHE. The new MSTA does not carry that round AFAIK which together with advertising from its maker that the minimum engagement range is 6.5km made me think it had no direct fire capability.

    As Regulars link shows it has a combined direct and indirect telescopic aiming sight.
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    Post  etaepsilonk on Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:32 pm

    To GarryB:
    Well, I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing. The sources which were provided clearly indicate the reasons for M728's limited usage, and those are, really, bean-counting downgrading measures. Therefore, with those reversed, I'm sure this vehicle would be much more capable for combat, as well as engineering tasks.

    Regarding the sights of the msta, providing it with direct fire mode is entirely logical. I mean, even ww2 towed mass-produced arty pieces had those.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:44 am

    Regarding the sights of the msta, providing it with direct fire mode is entirely logical. I mean, even ww2 towed mass-produced arty pieces had those.

    Towed guns are easy to hide and offered a very potent anti armour capability because often they were never spotted till they opened fire.

    For modern artillery however... especially for an advanced army, the main focus has to be mobility.

    A MSTA battery can direct approximately 3 tons of shells at a target in a minute or so and can be on its way as the first shells are landing... against a first line enemy it would need to be on its way as the first shells land because the biggest threat is counter battery fire.

    the effectiveness of modern anti armour weapons means a thinnly armoured vehicle like MSTA would be in serious trouble facing anything more than small arms fire or shell splinters.
    TR1
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    Post  TR1 on Sun Jan 26, 2014 10:36 pm

    http://trucks.autoreview.ru/_archive/section/detail.php?ELEMENT_ID=134512&SECTION_ID=7584

    Very cool. Nice photos of Federal truck details.

    Check out the engine armor.
    Werewolf
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    Post  Werewolf on Sun Jan 26, 2014 10:46 pm

    TR1 wrote:http://trucks.autoreview.ru/_archive/section/detail.php?ELEMENT_ID=134512&SECTION_ID=7584

    Very cool. Nice photos of Federal truck details.

    Check out the engine armor.

    Holly cow the british AVa-1 is one ugly Mofo.
    Zivo
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    Post  Zivo on Sun Jan 26, 2014 10:59 pm

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    It looks like they tried to give it some style.  Sometimes I wonder about LockMart.  Laughing 
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    Post  AlfaT8 on Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:31 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    TR1 wrote:http://trucks.autoreview.ru/_archive/section/detail.php?ELEMENT_ID=134512&SECTION_ID=7584

    Very cool. Nice photos of Federal truck details.

    Check out the engine armor.

    Holly cow the british AVa-1 is one ugly Mofo.

    Woow, your right, the damn thing looks like it was designed by Hotweels.  Razz 
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    Post  AZZKIKR on Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:37 am

    http://www.jedsite.info/misc/oscar/obyekt_series/obyekt1200/o1200-intro.html

    This seems interesting, the object 1200. Can't find much details about it, but it's form is different then the BTR series that would succeed it.
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    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:49 am

    AZZKIKR wrote:http://www.jedsite.info/misc/oscar/obyekt_series/obyekt1200/o1200-intro.html

    This seems interesting, the object 1200. Can't find much details about it, but it's form is different then the BTR series that would succeed it.

    Ob''ekt 1200 wasn't a BTR; it was rather a BMP, a wheeled BMP. It participated in the evaluation process that culminated in ob''ekt 765 (BMP-1) being selected.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:50 am

    Ob''ekt 1200 wasn't a BTR; it was rather a BMP, a wheeled BMP. It participated in the evaluation process that culminated in ob''ekt 765 (BMP-1) being selected.

    Yes.

    They had all wheeled, all tracked, plus vehicles that had tracks in the centre and wheels at the front and back where on rough country the tracks were lowered and used, but on hard ground or roads the tracks were raised and the vehicle moved on wheels only.

    Eventually mobility concerns and cost and complication concerns led to tracks only.

    They also had models with 30mm cannon, but the 500m minimum range of the AT-3 led to the 73mm gun able to take out an M60 tank in the frontal arc out to 1,200m to cover the dead zone of the missile.

    The BMP-2 benefitted from a better missile with a shorter minimum range of 25-75m which allowed a 30mm cannon to be used.

    Experience showed that the auto cannon was useful but the 73mm gun with HE shells was also useful and that they complimented each other so the BMP-3 got both a 30mm autocannon plus a 100mm rifled main gun to deliver HE more efficiently and effectively.


    Holly cow the british AVa-1 is one ugly Mofo.

    Wonder what it transforms into...
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:08 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Ob''ekt 1200 wasn't a BTR; it was rather a BMP, a wheeled BMP. It participated in the evaluation process that culminated in ob''ekt 765 (BMP-1) being selected.

    Yes.

    They had all wheeled, all tracked, plus vehicles that had tracks in the centre and wheels at the front and back where on rough country the tracks were lowered and used, but on hard ground or roads the tracks were raised and the vehicle moved on wheels only.

    Eventually mobility concerns and cost and complication concerns led to tracks only.

    I wonder if such a concept could work today with all the advancements in mechanical and electrical engineering, of course it would have to have an acceptable level weight limit, resilience, durability/reliability, and cost effectiveness.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:50 am

    At the time it was considered not worth it because the weight and complexity didn't reflect the difference in mobility... tracked vehicles with the mobility of wheeled vehicles would not get bogged down like wheeled vehicles on rough country but where the ground is firm would completely outpace the tracked vehicles... which meant the BMPs would outrun most of their tank support.

    These days I rather suspect wheeled vehicles would have much better mobility which renders the extra mobility of tracked wheels unnecessary.

    I suppose the best compromise would be an 8 wheeled vehicle designed to be fitted with tracks over the standard wheels in very soft or snowy or muddy conditions where tracks offer better performance.

    The old Soviet tanks often offered tracks or wheels, but wheels where rarely used so they reverted to tracks only and I suspect the same today.
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    Post  collegeboy16 on Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:52 am

    I agree, half-tracks have no place in modern AFVs. Besides, that mutant BMP/BTR will not use its tracks most of the time, so its dead weight.
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Feb 02, 2014 10:29 am

    The half track was a high mobility truck, but was more expensive than a truck.

    These days a prime mover artillery tractor makes rather more sense than a half track...
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    Post  TR1 on Sun Mar 30, 2014 9:51 pm

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    Regular
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    Post  Regular on Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:37 pm

    I wonder what about the other truck with different cabin. The one where you can access crew compartment.
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    Post  TR1 on Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:46 am

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    Viktor
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    Post  Viktor on Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:48 am

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Apr 03, 2014 7:55 am

    OK that is probably enough photos of the Kamaz Taifun truck here... we did mentioned armoured trucks but this is the Kurganets and Boomerang thread so it is not strictly the right thing to post here...
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    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:27 am

    I hope its possible to see kurganets and boomerang in these repititions
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    Post  TR1 on Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:28 am

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:I hope its possible to see kurganets and boomerang in these repititions

    Not this year by the look of it.
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    Post  medo on Thu Apr 03, 2014 6:05 pm

    Will those Typhoons be armed or unarmed? For now they have nothing.
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:02 am

    Will those Typhoons be armed or unarmed? For now they have nothing.

    I suspect some might get remote weapon stations, but these are trucks for either troop or supply transport... these are not IFVs.
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    Post  Vympel on Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:42 am

    GarryB wrote:
    I suspect some might get remote weapon stations, but these are trucks for either troop or supply transport... these are not IFVs.

    Well we know for a fact that they can get RWS - we've seen versions with them, covered up with a sheet Smile

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