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88 posters

    MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News

    Big_Gazza
    Big_Gazza

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    Post  Big_Gazza Fri Aug 13, 2021 2:10 pm

    MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News - Page 36 26-9897173-3643ec7c8abd

    thumbsup

    Yeah, I know. Technically this is a MiG-31K while this is a MiG-31BM thread. You got me. Call for yer lawyers. I don't care. I just want to luxuriate in Khinzhal porn and dream of these Death Avatars punching through USN Destroyers.... Twisted Evil

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Fri Aug 13, 2021 2:41 pm

    The most scarry thing about this weapon is that its carrier is always safe and it seems cheap to produce.

    They can launch them all day at the enemy aircraft carrier until they destroy it, even if the carrier can down it somehow.

    Other missile carriers like tupolevs, yasen or ships are not 100% safe with their anti ship missiles.

    Kinzhal with 2500km range makes the mig-31k totally safe.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Aug 13, 2021 3:39 pm

    Isos wrote:The most scarry thing about this weapon is that its carrier is always safe and it seems cheap to produce. ...

    They really are, solid fuel rockets in general are comparatively always much cheaper

    They really need to get these things on more than just MiG-31 plus land version with booster stage

    Too good to limit it to just MiG-31

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:02 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:

    They really need to get these things on more than just MiG-31 plus land version with booster stage

    Too good to limit it to just MiG-31

    That's the thing. They don't need to.

    Mig-31k will always be safe because they will be used from siberian airbases far away of reach from enemy, and the few tomahawks shoot at them will be downed by tor/pantsirs.

    And in the air they can't be intercepted by enemy aviation because they will fire 2500-2000km away their missiles.


    So even if they have 20 of them they will always be able to fire 20 kinzhal at once and reload and relaunch 20 and again and again.

    Having 300 plateforms isn't needed since you will never fire that many missiles at once.

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    Broski
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    Post  Broski Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:38 pm

    So what sort of missiles can we expect the MiG-41 to deploy once its finally operational? Khinzal? ASAT? Air-launched S-500?
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Aug 14, 2021 8:26 am

    Actually solid rocket fuel is not that cheap, but because the missile is basically an Iskander that is already in production for the ground troops this is an excellent short term solution to a problem likely to be fixed with a scramjet engine and liquid fuelled missile.

    Ironically a two stage land based scramjet powered missile would be a great solution, where the first stage gets the missile airborne and headed towards the target while the second stage is a scramjet powered missile that climbs and accelerates to altitude and high speed and flys huge distances to its target at a speed faster than any fighter could take it.

    A MiG-31 can move at mach 2.8 for about 750km and then turn around and head back home at that speed for that distance, or it could fly slower and therefore further with a much shorter acceleration to launch.

    With a rocket weapon speed and altitude are important... launching Kh-22M based test missiles the Tu-22M3 was able to use its size and fuel capacity to launch missiles at mach 1.7 at an altitude of 14km, but the MiG-31 can to rather better than that in both regards and the better allows for better range and better speed of the rocket with its fixed fuel type and fixed acceleration.

    With a scramjet powered missile it can use a throttle to vary its thrust and be rather more fuel efficient on its way to its target so being released by a slower lower altitude target wont effect its performance so much.

    I am honestly surprised they don't already use S-350 type SAMS as AAMs... they are ARH missiles designed to hit a variety of air targets including manouvering ones, and S-400 and S-500 missiles would also be rather interesting in that regard too.

    MiG-41 types flying faster and higher will just make everything longer ranged and more capable....
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    mnztr

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    Post  mnztr Sun Aug 15, 2021 12:28 am

    Isos wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:

    They really need to get these things on more than just MiG-31 plus land version with booster stage

    Too good to limit it to just MiG-31

    That's the thing. They don't need to.

    Mig-31k will always be safe because they will be used from siberian airbases far away of reach from enemy, and the few tomahawks shoot at them will be downed by tor/pantsirs.

    And in the air they can't be intercepted by enemy aviation because they will fire 2500-2000km away their missiles.


    So even if they have 20 of them they will always be able to fire 20 kinzhal at once and reload and relaunch 20 and again and again.

    Having 300 plateforms isn't needed since you will never fire that many missiles at once.

    Well if you wanna wipe out a CBG you wanna fire more then 20, The larger the salvo the harder it is to defend. If they can stop 20, unlikely they can stop 50, and if they can stop 50, 100 oughtta do it.

    Also useful to put it on some longer legged platforms like TU-22. A TU-22 can probably carry at least 6 maybe 8-10 depending on packaging. So 2 planes can fire a massive salvo of missiles and they can deliver them much, much further then the MIG-31. No one would think much of 2 blips on the radar until suddenly their are 12-20 missiles inbound. Too late then.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Aug 15, 2021 6:58 am


    Also useful to put it on some longer legged platforms like TU-22. A TU-22 can probably carry at least 6 maybe 8-10 depending on packaging. So 2 planes can fire a massive salvo of missiles and they can deliver them much, much further then the MIG-31. No one would think much of 2 blips on the radar until suddenly their are 12-20 missiles inbound. Too late then.

    Putting them on Tu-22Ms would dramatically reduce the range and flight speed of the missiles meaning you will have to fly closer to the targets and the missiles themselves will be slower and therefore easier to intercept.

    A MiG-31K should be able to launch these missiles at mach 2.4 at an altitude of probably about 18km.

    The Tu-22M3 could probably manage Mach 1.6... less if you want them to carry four of them.

    These missiles are probably about 5 tons each... the main wing pylons could carry one each but certainly not two, and the large MER bomb positions under the air intakes might take two more missiles for a total of four missiles at best, which would be 20 tons of external weight... which will reduce flight radius at supersonic speeds to much lower levels than you are perhaps expecting.
    TMA1
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    Post  TMA1 Sun Aug 15, 2021 8:49 am

    Honestly the kinzhal is terrifying and they probably wouldn't even need more than six or eight of them to ravage the heart of a carrier group.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Aug 16, 2021 6:13 am

    It is not often in history that an entire ship fleet is wiped out, and most of the time it would be unnecessary.

    In fact I think the effect of firing just one missile and have it get through the air defences of a US carrier group or two would have more impact on the USN than having 50 launched at them.

    Of course ships can't move as fast as aircraft can and certainly not as fast as Kinzhal missiles can so waiting till the ships are 1,000km away from your launch positions means even if you only have 12 MiG-31Ks and they launch and attack those ships and lets be super generous and say 12 separate hits and kills, and that leaves say 20 ships left... those 20 ships can't just hyperdrive zip out of the kill zone which they are 1,000km deep inside... those MiG-31s are designed to fly at mach 2.4 all day so it takes them 13 minutes to fly 750km which is their flight radius at that speed... launch the 12 missiles and then turn around and fly at mach 2.4 back to base... which will take another 13 minutes... land, refuel and rearm and take off again and 13 minutes later attack the targets again.

    Assuming 20 minutes to rearm and refuel, the flight time round trip is 26 minutes... but if the ships are 1,000km away they don't need to fly 750km to launch their missiles... they can take off, climb to altitude and speed and launch at say 300km and cut the flight time there and back to 13 minutes with a rearm and refuel time of 20 minutes... so in effect they could be launching 12 missiles every 30 minutes... how many hours would it take a US carrier group to sail 1,000km?

    And they have more than 12 MiG-31Ks...

    It would be better to use the Tu-22M3s for other duties TBH.
    Mir
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    Post  Mir Mon Aug 16, 2021 9:33 am

    In a combined arms scenario (and also the most likely one) where the Russians deploy hypersonic missile firing aircraft like the Mig-31 and Tu-22M4's together with 885 and 949 subs and a modified Kirov and a couple of Gorshkov-M's with the Kuznetsov providing some air cover and heading towards your carrier task force - any commanding officer would wish for warp speed at that very moment Laughing

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    George1
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    Post  George1 Wed Aug 25, 2021 4:22 am

    Contracts for both MiG-31Ks and MiG-31BMs

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/12205897
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:14 pm

    any commanding officer would wish for warp speed at that very moment

    Being attacked with Kinzhal... several ships will be achieving vertical warp speed in rapid succession... down to the sea floor.

    Reminds me of when Percy asked Captain Blackadder what to do if you trod on a mine... I seem to remember he said jump 100 feet up into the air and spread yourself around the place a bit...
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    owais.usmani

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    Post  owais.usmani Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:19 pm

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