MiG-31BM/Κ Interceptor/Attack aircraft: News

mnztr wrote:I really find it annoying when these US authors talk about how ancient some of these planes are, meanwhile, how old are the planes in the USAF. Even the F-22 is no spring chicken!! The F-16s and 15s are ancient designs let alone the B-52, T-38 etc. It annoying and patronizing. Grrrr

Hole wrote:

I doubt that the ASAT missile has anything to do with Kinzhal, it is based on a missile from the 80´s. And most recon satellites are in a low orbit and can be reached by the new missile. The high flying ones can be jammed (GPS) or their optics blinded by lasers likePeresvet (early warning sats).

Hole wrote:Ever heard about things like radar, datalinks and such stuff? No?

GarryB wrote:The MiG-31BMs are linked in with the VKO... aerospace defence forces, which operates all the major long range radars and space looking radars that Russia has... if anyone can get the to an intercept point to engage an approaching enemy satellite then it is them.

Second... getting a 100kg payload into very low earth orbit... is enough to launch a 40kg 2KT nuclear warhead like the ones fitted to 152mm artillery shells and still have room for a deorbit rocket motor and an electronic brain that deorbits the warhead package over an area the size of a country.

Likely very inaccurate, but about 45 minutes from any target on earth from any direction...

That type of ASAT was 70's idea and just 40 years late....just think with common sense and you should be fine.

The reason they stopped was the ABM treaty which specifically banned their use, but the US ripped up that treaty so they could put AEGIS ASHORE in europe.

The missiles tested in the 1980s in Russia and the US were for launching satellites... but obviously the ability of achieving a stable reliable orbit is really not much different than doing the same in the opposite orbit of an object already in orbit... when they collide... boom.

There was talk these rockets were early strike or late strike weapons, but I rather suspect they could also be micro satellites that Russia can launch after the US has destroyed all their recon satellites, so these can be launched to work out what damage was done and perhaps which targets might need follow up attacks...

lyle6 wrote:The US is on record bitching and moaning about drunk Russian satellites not keeping to their lane and approaching their multibillion dollar spy sats dangerously close - forcing them to waste precious fuel just to maintain separataion. Yet some nobody would have us believe this is purely fiction. Yeah, just you keep watching and you might learn a thing or two. Or maybe not, Indians have the best tech after all and Russians are just scammers who somehow managed to connive the naive Indians to bankrolling all their shiny stuff

gbu48098 wrote:

lyle6 wrote:The US is on record bitching and moaning about drunk Russian satellites not keeping to their lane and approaching their multibillion dollar spy sats dangerously close - forcing them to waste precious fuel just to maintain separataion. Yet some nobody would have us believe this is purely fiction. Yeah, just you keep watching and you might learn a thing or two. Or maybe not, Indians have the best tech after all and Russians are just scammers who somehow managed to connive the naive Indians to bankrolling all their shiny stuff

Only one that seems to be drunk here is you....what does this have to do with India or Russians being scammers? Do you even know what you are talking about?

miketheterrible wrote:

gbu48098 wrote:

lyle6 wrote:The US is on record bitching and moaning about drunk Russian satellites not keeping to their lane and approaching their multibillion dollar spy sats dangerously close - forcing them to waste precious fuel just to maintain separataion. Yet some nobody would have us believe this is purely fiction. Yeah, just you keep watching and you might learn a thing or two. Or maybe not, Indians have the best tech after all and Russians are just scammers who somehow managed to connive the naive Indians to bankrolling all their shiny stuff

Only one that seems to be drunk here is you....what does this have to do with India or Russians being scammers? Do you even know what you are talking about?

He does.

You, flint and others do not.

gbu48098 wrote:

miketheterrible wrote:

gbu48098 wrote:

lyle6 wrote:The US is on record bitching and moaning about drunk Russian satellites not keeping to their lane and approaching their multibillion dollar spy sats dangerously close - forcing them to waste precious fuel just to maintain separataion. Yet some nobody would have us believe this is purely fiction. Yeah, just you keep watching and you might learn a thing or two. Or maybe not, Indians have the best tech after all and Russians are just scammers who somehow managed to connive the naive Indians to bankrolling all their shiny stuff

Only one that seems to be drunk here is you....what does this have to do with India or Russians being scammers? Do you even know what you are talking about?

He does.

You, flint and others do not.

Dude, get out of your little gangs and keep it relevant.

miketheterrible wrote:

gbu48098 wrote:

miketheterrible wrote:

gbu48098 wrote:

lyle6 wrote:The US is on record bitching and moaning about drunk Russian satellites not keeping to their lane and approaching their multibillion dollar spy sats dangerously close - forcing them to waste precious fuel just to maintain separataion. Yet some nobody would have us believe this is purely fiction. Yeah, just you keep watching and you might learn a thing or two. Or maybe not, Indians have the best tech after all and Russians are just scammers who somehow managed to connive the naive Indians to bankrolling all their shiny stuff

Only one that seems to be drunk here is you....what does this have to do with India or Russians being scammers? Do you even know what you are talking about?

He does.

You, flint and others do not.

Dude, get out of your little gangs and keep it relevant.

You are the one calling someone else drunk. I suggest you do what he says - type less, read more.

GarryB wrote:
You misunderstand.

You can carry a small nuclear charge in the rocket for the purposes of having an orbital nuclear bombardment system.... you launch it up in a direction and it enters low earth orbit... which means it is going to go round the earth for a fairly long time depending on what altitude it reached... it does not have to be high to remain for a couple of years, but as I specified half of the 100kg payload could be a nuclear bomb and the other half a brain and a deorbiting rocket set to deorbit the bomb over enemy territory... not accurate but you could launch dozens a day.

Another option would be to replace that bomb with a micro satellite because when it is used WWIII will be going on and Russian satellites will be under attack... a low orbit optical satellite could be launched 12 hours after the war started to fly over the US to see what is destroyed and what is not so any Poseidons or nuclear powered unlimited range cruise missiles you are about to launch could use some fresh targets.

The third use could be shooting down enemy satellites which is just a case of launching this 100kg payload in the same orbit as the target but in the opposite direction... every 45 minutes there is a chance they will meet.... if the 100kg payload is a bag of nails that are slowly spreading out every 45 minutes the chance of a collision gets higher and higher till it becomes certain....

Putting satellites in low earth orbit is a business... and a MiG-31 can fly anywhere to launch.... even near the equator where it can get a boost from the earths rotation to go for higher orbits without having to make the load lighter.

The US is introducing Space Forces... likely taking weapons into space... Russia has to take steps to counter that whether she wants to or not

Also please stop repeating everything everyone else says in your reply.

HTML works like brackets in maths so if you click on the quote button please take the time to unwrap all the previous comments and just leave the one you are replying to... this is a forum rule remember...[/color]

Hole wrote:

Last remark: if such a weapon wouldn´t be feasible the russians wouldn´t waste money on flying the plane and the missile.

GarryB wrote:
Actually huge benefit... launch the same rocket from the ground and it wont make it to space let alone to orbital speeds.

Launching from a MiG-31 greatly reduces the size and weight the rocket needs to be.

A MiG-31 could be flown with an inflight refuelling tanker, or it could be put on a ship to Venezuela or Indonesia and flown from there... if it is launching micro satellites that isn't necessarily an act of war you know.

It was the primary purpose of the MiG-31K, till it became the standard carrier of the Kinzhal.

Not a different topic at all the MiG-31 has anti satellite uses too and would actually be used to try to intercept some incoming ballistic threats if they come down near where MiG-31BMs are operating.

That was directed at everyone involved, yourself included, but the other people doing it too.

For instance your post number 815 includes the original post from Lyle6, (who did nothing wrong by the way), your original reply and then mikes reply to you and then your reply to mike and mikes second reply to you.... instead of repeating the 5 quotes you should have just replied to the last.

We don't know what they have in service and what they don't.

We know the ABM system in Moscow is operational and has been for decades, but whether Nudol is in service or still testing, or these rockets are in service or still testing is completely unknown.

BTW Zircon raises another possibility... a scramjet powered first stage that takes the missile to 40km altitude and mach 10 would be a very fuel efficient first stage booster before a rocket accelerated it the rest of the way...

This is a roaming platform already linked in to their air defence network... why wouldn't they include it?

Much of that 30 years it was illegal under the ABM treaty... a treaty the US ripped up in the 2000s so they could put ABM systems in Europe... now it is fair game.

The idea is to defeat enemy satellites before the infrastructures are dust so the defences can do their thing and the US and west wont know what worked and what is destroyed and what didn't work and what has survived.

Micro satellites could then be launched by surviving MiG-31 to spot for targets for weapons like Poseidon and Storm Petrel etc etc.

Current data shows new squadrons of MiG-31K have been put into service for carrying Kinzhal missiles for anti ship use... satellites could be dealt with using the same aircraft with a different missile.

Hole wrote:The AGM-135 fired from an F-15 shot down a old satellite in the late 80´s. The russians didn´t demonstrate that capability because of Gorbi/Yelzin. After the "end" of the cold war work on ASAT systems was stopped (at least officially). After the americans and chinese destroyed satellites with land or sea based missiles the work on Nudol and the specialised MiG-31 version resumed or began in earnest. According to russian experts the MiG-31 is best suited as ASAT weapon because it can fly very fast and high and is therefore superior to land baed systems.

The number of important spy sats isn´t that large. Destroy a few of them and the surveillance picture is getting blurred.

GarryB wrote:
A single Soyuz launch takes months to prepare and as you said its launch facilities could be compromised by the time it is needed.

The simple fact is that the closer you are to the equator the more of a boost any launch in the direction of the earths spin... for commercial launches it might make sense to move closer to the equator to achieve a higher orbit, but for military purposes the direction of launch might make the speed of the earths rotation at the equator count against the launch rather than improve its performance.

Photos of MiG-31s with large rockets underneath them that are clearly not Kinzhals suggests otherwise.

ICBM warheads do not enter orbit, they go up and come down like an artillery shell... a MiG-31 operating in the middle of Siberia with **** all of any consequence within 1,000km radius has just taken off from its airbase and an SLBM warhead is detected heading for the air base... a MiG-31 with an air launched S-500 missile might be a good solution to dealing with the threat... no ABM treaty to stop them after all.

It is clearly stated in the forum rules that you have read of course.

Of course it is speed and altitude related... the higher and faster moving the rocket is when it is launched the less speed and altitude and air it has to fly to to get to space. Lifting it up though the thickest warmest part of the atmosphere makes reaching space much easier... momentum is as critical as speed.

But no urgent interest till Trump started talking about militarisation of space and space forces etc.

Photos of large rockets under MiG-31s are not recent or new either...

If you are creating doomsday revenge weapons it makes sense to have some way of using them efficiently... launch the nuclear powered low flying cruise missiles in any direction you like and launch some micro satellites to have a look at the damage... the poseidons and long range cruise missiles might be programmed not to hit targets for days or weeks... plenty of time for microsatellites to look over the target zones and determine what needs to be hit again... then launch a Sputnik 10 that orbits the earth every 90 minutes transmitting the locations each missile in flight should be going for...

Of course not, but in the ammo depots for the MiG-31K aircraft that deliver Kinzhals against ship and surface targets they could have a large stock of other rockets they could also launch if needed against satellites or to put their own satellites in orbit.

There are a lot of countries that might want to blind Russia or the US or European satellite users... the destruction of other satellites might damage or disable your own so emergency deployment of new temporary satellites might be a valuable capability.