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    Russian Gun Artillery: Discussion Thread

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    Post  Hole on Wed Sep 30, 2020 5:35 am

    Russian Gun Artillery: Discussion Thread - Page 14 2s7m_210
    Russian Gun Artillery: Discussion Thread - Page 14 2s7m_211
    Russian Gun Artillery: Discussion Thread - Page 14 2s7m_212

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    Post  Hole on Fri Oct 09, 2020 3:08 pm

    Russian Gun Artillery: Discussion Thread - Page 14 002011
    Russian Gun Artillery: Discussion Thread - Page 14 002112
    Phlox

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    Post  Hole on Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:32 am

    Russian Gun Artillery: Discussion Thread - Page 14 En5ysf10
    2S31 in Aserbaidschan
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sat Nov 28, 2020 8:20 pm

    Thegopnik originally asked me for a reputable source for the 2.5 kiloton thermonuclear yield for the 3bv3 152mm shell. It took a while but I found it:
    3BV3 weighed 53 kilograms, had a length of 774 millimeters and a diameter of 152.4 millimeters. The power of the nuclear charge was 2.5 kilotons in TNT equivalent, and the range of the aimed shot was about 17.4 kilometers. It is not difficult to imagine what destruction an artillery division armed with such projectiles could inflict with a single salvo. However, in the early 1990s, both the Soviet Union and the United States eliminated artillery nuclear weapons.
    Russian Gun Artillery: Discussion Thread - Page 14 3464204_900
    Russian Gun Artillery: Discussion Thread - Page 14 79cda152017f372a0cff0a8c400b1400

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    Post  LMFS on Fri Dec 11, 2020 3:31 pm

    "High-precision complexes" completed the delivery of artillery control systems for GOZ-2020

    Alexander Denisov, General Director of High-Precision Complexes, told TASS that the use of artillery fire control systems 1В181 and 1В198 dramatically increases the effectiveness of artillery units on the battlefield

    MOSCOW, December 11. / TASS /. VNII "Signal" (part of the holding "High-precision complexes" of the State Corporation "Rostec") within the framework of the state defense order in 2020 (GOZ-2020) has completed the shipment of automated fire control systems for artillery units 1В181 and 1В198. The press service of High-Precision Complexes informed the journalists about it.

    "The shipment was made in full and on time. The contract is long-term, we plan to continue working according to the delivery schedule," the press service quoted the words of the Director General of VNII "Signal", chairman of the Vladimir regional branch of the Russian Engineering Union Vladimir Pimenov.

    Alexander Denisov, General Director of High-Precision Complexes, told TASS that the use of artillery fire control systems 1В181 and 1В198 dramatically increases the effectiveness of artillery units on the battlefield. "In fact, these systems make it possible to turn conventional cannon artillery into high-precision weapons capable of effectively destroying any types of targets," Denisov said.

    According to military experts, the complexes meet the requirements for automation of artillery control and are used for the Msta-S and Msta-B artillery systems, as well as the Tornado-G and Grad multiple launch rocket systems. "Modern means of preparation of fire and new algorithms for solving problems make it possible to increase the accuracy of fire by 25-30%, and guided projectiles of a new generation destroy enemy targets and objects with a probability of 0.98 - 0.99," the High-Precision Complexes noted.

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/10229983

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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Fri Dec 11, 2020 4:45 pm

    LMFS wrote:"High-precision complexes" completed the delivery of artillery control systems for GOZ-2020

    Alexander Denisov, General Director of High-Precision Complexes, told TASS that the use of artillery fire control systems 1В181 and 1В198 dramatically increases the effectiveness of artillery units on the battlefield

    MOSCOW, December 11. / TASS /. VNII "Signal" (part of the holding "High-precision complexes" of the State Corporation "Rostec") within the framework of the state defense order in 2020 (GOZ-2020) has completed the shipment of automated fire control systems for artillery units 1В181 and 1В198. The press service of High-Precision Complexes informed the journalists about it.

    "The shipment was made in full and on time. The contract is long-term, we plan to continue working according to the delivery schedule," the press service quoted the words of the Director General of VNII "Signal", chairman of the Vladimir regional branch of the Russian Engineering Union Vladimir Pimenov.

    Alexander Denisov, General Director of High-Precision Complexes, told TASS that the use of artillery fire control systems 1В181 and 1В198 dramatically increases the effectiveness of artillery units on the battlefield. "In fact, these systems make it possible to turn conventional cannon artillery into high-precision weapons capable of effectively destroying any types of targets," Denisov said.

    According to military experts, the complexes meet the requirements for automation of artillery control and are used for the Msta-S and Msta-B artillery systems, as well as the Tornado-G and Grad multiple launch rocket systems. "Modern means of preparation of fire and new algorithms for solving problems make it possible to increase the accuracy of fire by 25-30%, and guided projectiles of a new generation destroy enemy targets and objects with a probability of 0.98 - 0.99," the High-Precision Complexes noted.

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/10229983
    Artillery shells are already dirt cheap and needing to fire less of them makes them even cheaper....Hell even the 152mm GLONASS shells were something like $2,000USD a piece 9 years ago when the Ruble had way more value.
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    Post  AJ-47 on Sat Dec 19, 2020 11:58 am

    Yea This unit called Phlox-2S40 and it's to the Russian Army as a replacement of the towed units with the same caliber. for more info go to:
    https://www.military-today.com/artillery/floks.htm

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    Post  kvs on Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:31 am



    This may be a repost. But I find it rather surprising that the M109 Paladin firing procedure involves so many warm bodies
    and has country club pacing. By contrast, the 2s1 Gvozdika is much more automated and faster. I am sure that
    the 2s35 Koalitsya SV self-propelled howitzer is no less efficient than the Gvozdika.

    The smoke backwash in the Paladin is absurd. I know that atmospheric conditions can play a role so it is not so easy
    to compare, but this looks excessive. The whole point of having a bore evacuator is to control this problem.

    This video shows how all that money in the west is not resulting in reasonable designs. Maybe things have gotten
    better, but that is not at all likely since the same problems that resulted in such nonsense are likely to be around.
    They are not problems of the engineers but of the management.



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    Post  AJ-47 on Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:21 pm

    GarryB wrote in post no’-307
    “Excalibur would be far too expensive for such area targets because you will know the location and the extent of the trenches but you won’t know where the people are, so you just need an even coverage on target to arrive together so there is no time to take cover. Once they take cover you will need thousands of rounds and days to get them all.


    It seems to me that the best way to go is to replace the mortar with the BM-21 that has 3 times the range and 10 times the rate of fire. With smart units we can program the 40 rockets to hit about 10 different targets and have 35-40 km range.
    So what’s the benefit of the 120mm mortars?

    It’s OK to use in the infantry the 82mm mortar as they can be transfer by foot soldiers, but for mobile units we should use the BM-21.
    USA doing experience with 81mm shell that get now to 7 km range, but they will take it in the future to 40km.

    Russian Gun Artillery: Discussion Thread - Page 14 Usa_mo10
    Russian Gun Artillery: Discussion Thread - Page 14 Usa_mo11
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    Post  Regular on Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:21 am

    kvs wrote:

    This may be a repost.   But I find it rather surprising that the M109 Paladin firing procedure involves so many warm bodies
    and has country club pacing.   By contrast, the 2s1 Gvozdika is much more automated and faster.    I am sure that
    the 2s35 Koalitsya SV self-propelled howitzer is no less efficient than the Gvozdika.  

    The smoke backwash in the Paladin is absurd.  I know that atmospheric conditions can play a role so it is not so easy
    to compare, but this looks excessive.   The whole point of having a bore evacuator is to control this problem.  

    This video shows how all that money in the west is not resulting in reasonable designs.   Maybe things have gotten
    better, but that is not at all likely since the same problems that resulted in such nonsense are likely to be around.
    They are not problems of the engineers but of the management.




    Americans are not whole west, but yes it shows that even most bloated military has clear deficiencies. They never had proper artillery mobile artillery systems. I would say that PZH 2000 beats anything us has by a mile, I wouldn't be surprised if US steals or borrows that autoloader in the future like how they did with german guns for their tanks.

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    Post  lyle6 on Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:36 am

    What are you talking about? They already had:
    Russian Gun Artillery: Discussion Thread - Page 14 TgcHXKN
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    Post  Hole on Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:09 pm

    Russian Gun Artillery: Discussion Thread - Page 14 Erx3mm10
    Nice pic.

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    Post  GarryB on Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:46 pm

    By contrast, the 2s1 Gvozdika is much more automated and faster. I am sure that
    the 2s35 Koalitsya SV self-propelled howitzer is no less efficient than the Gvozdika.

    2S1 has a lighter 122mm calibre shell but it has an autorammer and the rounds can be easily handled by a human.

    The 2S35 is of course more automated... there are no crew in the turret at all... it is fully automated...

    The loading vehicle pulls up behind it and feeds rounds and propellent sticks into the back of the 2S35 to load its autoloader...

    Smoke in the 2S35s turret is a good thing... reduces chance of a fire...

    It seems to me that the best way to go is to replace the mortar with the BM-21 that has 3 times the range and 10 times the rate of fire. With smart units we can program the 40 rockets to hit about 10 different targets and have 35-40 km range.
    So what’s the benefit of the 120mm mortars?

    The benefit of 120mm mortars is that the bombs come down vertically. With lines of trenches the chance of landing inside a trench is rather small but landing within 5 metres of a trench with a delay fuse a mortar bomb will cause a shockwave through the soil that collapses trenches and bunkers and would be VERY effective against troops in trenches.... you could also get up quite a good rate of fire with a modern mortar and you could fire from out of line of sight.

    A few airburst bombs would also do a rather good job of getting the enemy into the bottom of those trenches with near miss ground penetrating bombs (they don't go through 10 metres of earth but a metre and a half is enough) filling those trenches in over those troops...

    It’s OK to use in the infantry the 82mm mortar as they can be transfer by foot soldiers, but for mobile units we should use the BM-21.

    It really depends on the target and the situation... rocket artillery is a great way to fill an enormous area with HE and fragments... troops out in the open for instance, but dug in troops it is not so effective and of course the launch signature of a rocket battery means it can't sit and fire for days like a mortar team could...

    Also for strong targets Russia has the odd 160mm mortar in mountain units but also 240mm mortars which would be totally devastating against bunkers and trench lines.

    An 82mm mortar has a 3-5kg bomb, the 120mm bomb is about 16kgs which is quite significant and effective (after being on the receiving end the Germans immediately adopted frontline use of 120mm mortars after facing Soviet mortars of the same calibre in WWII.) It is mobile enough to be always available and on call unlike larger calibre artillery or air power. The 160mm mortar is more rare these days in the Soviet military but its 40kg bomb is very very potent, while their biggest current mortar round is the 240mm round... double the calibre of the 120mm but with a HE bomb that weighs 130kgs.... basically equivalent to a light aircraft delivered bomb.

    USA doing experience with 81mm shell that get now to 7 km range, but they will take it in the future to 40km.

    US units don't have BMP-3s operating with them using 100mm rifled guns firing to 7km... the new Russian units will likely have 57mm grenade launchers...

    Take something simple and portable and make it expensive... if there is a point target 10km away they have to hit then Kornet-EM would do the job.

    I wouldn't be surprised if US steals or borrows that autoloader in the future like how they did with german guns for their tanks.

    German guns, British Armour, Belgian coaxial MGs....

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    Post  elevonic on Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:17 am

    152mm "Krasnopol" laser-guided artillery weapon system by Iranian IRGC artillerists in Syria
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    Post  AJ-47 on Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:00 pm

    GarryB wrote:


    The benefit of 120mm mortars is that the bombs come down vertically. With lines of trenches the chance of landing inside a trench is rather small but landing within 5 meters of a trench with a delay fuse a mortar bomb will cause a shockwave through the soil that collapses trenches and bunkers and would be VERY effective against troops in trenches.... you could also get up quite a good rate of fire with a modern mortar and you you could fire from out of line of sight.

     The vertical diving is a great advantage of the 120mm shells but you can get it also from rockets, there are several big advantages to the BM-21 “Grad”: 1) 20kg warhead, 2) 20km range, 3) rate of fire of 40 rockets in 20 second, 4) laser guidance, 5) airburst and thermobaric warheads will be for a big advantage of the Grad rockets.

    A few airburst bombs would also do a rather good job of getting the enemy into the bottom of those trenches with near miss ground penetrating bombs (they don't go through 10 meters of earth but a meter and a half is enough) filling those trenches in over those troops.

     No doubt, But the rockets will have better penetration and bigger warhead.

    It really depends on the target and the situation... rocket artillery is a great way to fill an enormous area with HE and fragments... troops out in the open for instance,  but dug in troops it is not so effective and of course the launch signature of a rocket battery means it can't sit and fire for days like a mortar team could.
     
    That’s true, but the launcher has the ability to give hell to the enemy, get out and disappear.  

    Also for strong targets Russia has the odd 160mm mortar in mountain units but also 240mm mortars which would be totally devastating against bunkers and trench lines.

    I love the 2S4 Tylpan SP
    And at the end I can’t see anything that the 120 mm mortar can do that the BM-21 can’t do better.

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