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    Mikoyan LMFS

    Cyberspec
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    Post  Cyberspec on Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:22 am

    Said to be roughly the same size as a MiG-29, maybe a bit smaller.

    Can't really tell if it's single engined or not?
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    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:45 am

    Cyberspec wrote:Said to be roughly the same size as a MiG-29, maybe a bit smaller.

    Can't really tell if it's single engined or not?

    Smaller the better

    It has two engines one right next to another, you can tell by the way vertical stabilizer is mounted on the engine
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    Post  LMFS on Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:24 pm

    That model has been around for a while, probably from some communication from TsAGI:

    Mikoyan LMFS - Page 17 X0110

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    Post  Isos on Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:52 pm

    No space for internal bays if it is smaller than mig29. But that still better than the mig-35.
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    Post  Cyberspec on Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:38 pm

    According to Piotr Butowski

    the fighter will be close in size to the MiG-35, its length will be 15.5 m, wingspan-11.5 m, maximum take-off weight-24.5 t. It is designed to reach speeds of 2M at high altitude and up to 1500 km / h at low altitude, with a range of 4000 km with suspended tanks.

    The combat load of 1500 kg will all be in one armament compartment, similar to the su-57, which has two of them.

    The fighter will be equipped with two 11-ton thrust engines, which will be a further development of the RD-33MK-35 model for the MiG-35. Previously, their name appeared as VK-10M.

    For avionics and weapons, continuity with the MiG-35 will be maintained, in particular, the LMFS will be equipped with a radar with AFAR "Zhuk-AME".

    Judging by its aerodynamic scheme, it is more of a maneuverable fighter, which did not focus on the range and high speed.

    According to Butovsky, the probability of ordering the LMFS of the VKS of Russia is low, since it was not in the GPV-2020, and most likely not in the GPV-2027. However, the VKS can purchase a small number of these machines for demonstration purposes in order to support exports. But even in this case, the funds of a foreign co-investor will most likely be sought

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    Post  GarryB on Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:31 am

    Actually that is a good thing... with no promise to buy 3,500 then they will need to have a product that is not too expensive and actually works...

    Would prefer to see them reduce the requirement for top speed down to something like mach 1.5 because most fighters... even mach 2.3 fighters rarely actually fly that fast and the reduced speed requirements means potentially more internal fuel and weapons volume which means it stays stealthy more often...

    It doesn't need a huge payload of 7 tons or anything, but the ability to carry a few weapons would be valuable... perhaps some rear facing torpedo tube like weapon bays for rearward firing AAMs like Verba or Igla-S or something or 9M100. A few upwards facing mortar launchers for 250kg bombs or fuel cells when bombs are not needed... which would leave the main weapon bay for other stuff...

    24 tons sounds a bit heavy to me..., though that is MTOW, so normal weight would be 18 tons or so I suspect... which would make it quite nippy with 11 ton thrust engines.

    I have heard those engines being called VK-10M but also RD-44... not sure if they are real designations or not...
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    Post  miketheterrible on Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:08 am

    SAP-2027 will be adjusted anyway. SAP-2020 was adjusted what, thrice?

    If the jet comes out, which I doubt, and it's cheap enough, then the Russian MoD may revise their budget and procurement plans to purchase these jets.

    Right now, majority of the money is still going towards strategic weapon systems (Ballistic missiles and cruise missiles) while the rest are getting upgrades and odd orders here and there.

    So if the price is right, they may opt for more of these than let's say Su-35 as it would be a good buy. Only if price is right. Su-35's are cheap.
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:03 am

    I don't think they even want an all stealth fleet, but having 300-400 light fighters boosts their fighter numbers to reasonable values for any front.

    To be honest they might only buy 100 manned versions and use the other 200-300 as unmanned drone versions that they can put into storage and take out and use when needed... in which case a fully modular design would be valuable... perhaps a dual nose mount for either a new type of radar or EW device or ESM sensor where they all weigh about the same so if not fitted with radar you could mount something cheaper but still useful... some sort of optronics package or MMW radar like those carried on helicopters and CAS aircraft maybe.

    Their ten year plans are supposed to be regularly revised and updated depending on what has happened since the plan was drawn up... for instance in 2010 they would have no idea exports of western equipment will be banned in 2014 so a revision of the 2010 plan included domestic production of critical components first but latter all foreign parts from Russian military equipment.

    If this light fighter is successful and affordable then they will change the number of other types they order, but as I said I really don't think they want an all stealthy fleet... even if its stealth levels are good MiG-35 and Su-35s will remain useful aircraft... their external payload capacity means they are useful as bomb trucks at the very least and therefore are force multipliers... and with L band radar they can detect stealth aircraft and weapons... so new types of air to air weapon for use against stealthy targets will be useful to both them and to stealthy fighters...
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    Post  Cyberspec on Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:28 am

    It's probably meant as an export driven project. A light and relatively cheap stealthy fighter for smaller countries. Sort of a MiG-21 for the 21st century.

    Doesn't look like the Rus AF is interested in light fighters these days
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:02 am

    But it is not a light fighter.

    With a MTOW of 24 tons it is the same weight as the MiG-29/35 so it is a medium weight fighter...

    Personally I don't think it makes sense to try to make a light weight stealth fighter... it will never actually be cheap to buy or operate... the cheap light fighter like the MiG-21 and F-5 are likely now either MiG-21 or F-5 knockoffs or evolved aircraft or they will be drone missile trucks for carrying bundles of missiles or bombs... and an auto pilot and fuel... and nothing else.

    Imagine wasting your time making an F-16 replacement now... an LMFS in an unmanned model with all the latest missiles and self defence systems able to pull 30 g turns would kick the arse of any manned aircraft...
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    Post  Cyberspec on Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:49 am

    Well, light compared to the Su-57
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    Post  mnztr on Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:24 pm

    GarryB wrote:But it is not a light fighter.

    With a MTOW of 24 tons it is the same weight as the MiG-29/35 so it is a medium weight fighter...

    Personally I don't think it makes sense to try to make a light weight stealth fighter... it will never actually be cheap to buy or operate... the cheap light fighter like the MiG-21 and F-5 are likely now either MiG-21 or F-5 knockoffs or evolved aircraft or they will be drone missile trucks for carrying bundles of missiles or bombs... and an auto pilot and fuel... and nothing else.

    Imagine wasting your time making an F-16 replacement now... an LMFS in an unmanned model with all the latest missiles and self defence systems able to pull 30 g turns would kick the arse of any manned aircraft...


    Yes I think they need to build an arsneal version of PAK DA, or maybe the IL-76 that will act as a "mother ship" for the drone fighters. It will have mission managers on board and perhaps even act as a refulling plane for the UAVs, although better to have a dedicated refueller. The mothership would also be a AWACs plane to give the drones full situational awareness so they can have smaller radars. It would also be able to deliver its own salvo of BVR missiles. The drones would sacrifice to protect the mothership.
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    Post  George1 on Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:24 pm

    Cyberspec wrote:Here's something more substantial....model of the LMFS getting tested in a wind tunnel at TsAGI....no canards  Very Happy

    Mikoyan LMFS - Page 17 Eb0EP06UcAAm_qF?format=jpg&name=large

    is it a recent model?
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:53 pm

    If Mod doesn't plan on buying LMFS, they have to find a way to keep MiG busy, otherwise the qualified staff will waste away and eventually retire with lesser reason and opportunities for new staff to be trained. The MiG-41 is easily 10-15 years away, I suggest they deeply modernize and even restart the production of the MiG-31M fleet in the meantime. Let's see MiG-31's with a much lighter composite/tintanium (infused with graphene) 3d printed airframe, fitted with avionics, radar, and the 2nd stage engine from the Su-57.
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:37 am

    Well, light compared to the Su-57

    Not really... the Su-57s MTOW is probably only ten tons heavier at about 35 tons... I would say both would spend most of their operational lives at weights of 18 tons for the MiG and 24 tons for the Sukhoi.... compared with double that... 50 tons for the MiG-31 and possibly more for the MiG-41...

    I mean the S-70 is a light drone and it is supposed to have an operational weight of about 20 tons...

    Yes I think they need to build an arsneal version of PAK DA, or maybe the IL-76 that will act as a "mother ship" for the drone fighters. It will have mission managers on board and perhaps even act as a refulling plane for the UAVs, although better to have a dedicated refueller. The mothership would also be a AWACs plane to give the drones full situational awareness so they can have smaller radars. It would also be able to deliver its own salvo of BVR missiles. The drones would sacrifice to protect the mothership.

    For HATO I would agree, because going to fight in Venezuela or Angola having a mothership makes it all nice and portable, but for Russia they are more interested in defending their own territory so rather than creating a mobile IADS for these drones and light planes... just integrated them into the existing IADS Russia is creating for itself around its territory and military assets...

    If Mod doesn't plan on buying LMFS, they have to find a way to keep MiG busy, otherwise the qualified staff will waste away and eventually retire with lesser reason and opportunities for new staff to be trained.

    I would think a light stealth fighter aircraft would actually sell rather well... it is in demand right now with the only option for some countries being the F-35 which is losing its appeal because it is supposed to be a lot of things but one of those is cheap and it clearly isn't... so is it stealthy enough?

    Maybe Turkey might want to join MiG in developing a new light fighter.

    The MiG-41 is easily 10-15 years away, I suggest they deeply modernize and even restart the production of the MiG-31M fleet in the meantime.

    Totally disagree here.... MiG has been working on a MiG-31 replacement and a light stealthy fighter for a rather long time... I don't think either will take more than 5 years to get something flying... maybe another 3-4 years to get it working as needed.

    The critical think with the MiG-41 will be an engine that can operate from a runway and also accelerate to beyond mach 3 safely and efficiently... a bypass turbofan that uses bypass air as a ramjet perhaps... or perhaps something with a pulse detonation scramjet or more exotic.

    It think the first generation MiG-41 will not be hypersonic but will be faster and longer ranged than the MiG-31 and the next engines will make it even faster...
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    Post  Cyberspec on Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:30 am

    George1 wrote:is it a recent model?

    As far as I can tell, the pic was recently released but could be much older...

    Maybe someone has more info?
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    Post  LMFS on Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:42 pm

    Cyberspec wrote:
    George1 wrote:is it a recent model?

    As far as I can tell, the pic was recently released but could be much older...

    Maybe someone has more info?

    The oldest reference I found is from 2015

    http://espacial-org.blogspot.com/2015/11/modelos-de-aviones-furtivos-rusos1.html

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    Post  George1 on Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:02 pm

    so it isn't sth new
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    Post  Cyberspec on Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:22 pm

    George1 wrote:so it isn't sth new

    It's the best we have to go by on what it might look like. Previously there were only artists impressions that were mostly showing a scaled down version of the MiG 1.44
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:28 am

    Trends and fashion have a lot more influence on design than pure maths and sensible thought.

    Personally I think the simple plain design of the Tegas is a good thing, but I also think very light planes are too light.

    Making a plane a single engined aircraft means a powerful single engine is needed which usually makes it a very expensive engine... not a good way to start making a cheap plane.

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