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54 posters

    Tu-95MS "Bear"

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Aug 22, 2021 9:00 am

    After the increase in the flight speed of the Tu-95 from Mach 0.67 to 0.82 the propellers slice through the air supersonically.

    How does that work?

    I mean I understand the rotor blades on a helicopter where the disk is vertical so a blade is going backwards and a blade is going forwards means the forward speed of the aircraft is added to the forward speed of the forward moving blade, but the blades on the Bear moving purpendicular to the direction of flight don't have the flight speed added to their rotational speed.

    The Bear has four enormously powerful engines... of course it is going to be noisy, but just listen to those few aircraft whose blade tips are supersonic to notice the difference.

    The thump thump thump of a UH-1... the roar of a Harvard on takeoff... the Bear sounds nothing like that on any video I have ever heard... the noise of the speed of sound being broken is rather noticable and distinct from the vibration of propeller blades.

    Where is the 750 rpm explaining subsonic rotation?

    We know the blades are 4m long... how hard is it to work out the distance around the circle they create.... and 750 rpm gives us their rotational speed, so it is a question of working out the speed of the tips of the blades and comparing that to the speed of sound at different altitudes... perhaps the altitude they operate at the blades might become supersonic, but I would suggest it is related more to altitude rather than flight speed which is irrelevant to the tip speed.
    AMCXXL
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    Post  AMCXXL Sun Aug 22, 2021 3:38 pm

    Broski wrote:
    AMCXXL wrote:
    Therefore in the next few years the 121st TBAP should be fully equipped with the Tu-160 and the Tu-95 should only remain in service in Ukrainka until the Tu-160s are manufactured to replace them.
    PAK-DA will replace the Tu-95's, Tu-160 doesn't serve the same role as the Tu-95.


    That does not make any sense, the Tu-160 was designed to replace the strategic bombers of the USSR, Tu-95´s and the remaining M4/3M

    If the USSR had not collapsed, the Tu-160 would have continued to be produced and by the year 2000 or a little later the Tu-95 would be out of service.
    Both are strategic bombers due to their great radius of action.

    It has nothing to do with the Tu-22M3 which only has half or less the combat radius.
    In fact the Tu-160 and the Tu-22M3 were produced in parallel until 1993 or 1994 and if the production of Tu-160 had not stopped, today there would only be Tu-160 as a strategic bomber, together with Tu-22M3

    There is no replacement of one aircraft for another given that what there is is an evolution, the Tu-22M3 loses part of its missions when you have an important fleet of Su-34 assisted by refueling aircraft.

    Therefore the PAK-DA will have a totally new role to current aircraft.
    However, in one space-time line it will be located in the bases that today house the Tu-22M3
    Hole
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    Post  Hole Sun Aug 22, 2021 8:56 pm

    If not for Jelzin the Tu-95MS would have been in production until the end of the 90´s. No way the Tu-95MS would be retired shortly after 2000.

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Sun Aug 22, 2021 9:02 pm

    If/when the Tu-95s get phased out might there be a possibility that they could be modified into a Tu-142 role?
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sun Aug 22, 2021 10:07 pm

    JohninMK wrote:If/when the Tu-95s get phased out might there be a possibility that they could be modified into a Tu-142 role?

    Not really since they plane tu-214 or MS-10 as the new ASW plane.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:57 am

    The PAK DA is supposed to compliment the Tu-160s the same way the Tu-95 currently do, by being a cheaper but slower platform that can be operated in numbers.

    It is also supposed to be able to vary it fuel load and payload capacity to allow long range strikes with strategic payloads and shorter theatre range strikes with heavier payloads... essentially replacing the Tu-95 and the Tu-22M3.

    The Tu-160 and Tu-95 have no bombing capacity AFAIK, and the PAK DA will become their standard bomber going forward.

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    hoom

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    Post  hoom Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:21 am

    the blades on the Bear moving purpendicular to the direction of flight don't have the flight speed added to their rotational speed.
    Actually yes.
    The tips trace a helical motion through the air & its that which determines the actual tip speed.

    But they're going to be constant-speed type props: as plane speed increases the prop pitch increases but tips stay same speed.
    So if increased speed wound up bringing the tip speed up toward speed of sound it should have been no particular issue to adjust the props so they run a lower rpm but bigger pitch & stay sub-sonic.

    The noise is probably just big high-speed contra-prop tip vortexes crossing each other or something imo.

    Nobody doubts they're very loud but compare it to the XF-84H which definitely had supersonic prop-tips & caused incapacitation while engines were running, physical damage from the shockwaves etc. you never hear about that sort of thing from Tu-95.

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Mon Aug 23, 2021 12:46 pm

    hoom wrote:
    Nobody doubts they're very loud but compare it to the XF-84H which definitely had supersonic prop-tips & caused incapacitation while engines were running, physical damage from the shockwaves etc. you never hear about that sort of thing from Tu-95.

    Tu-95MS "Bear" - Page 11 6fb99fc3
    AMCXXL
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    Post  AMCXXL Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:33 pm

    GarryB wrote:The PAK DA is supposed to compliment the Tu-160s the same way the Tu-95 currently do, by being a cheaper but slower platform that can be operated in numbers.

    It is also supposed to be able to vary it fuel load and payload capacity to allow long range strikes with strategic payloads and shorter theatre range strikes with heavier payloads... essentially replacing the Tu-95 and the Tu-22M3.

    The Tu-160 and Tu-95 have no bombing capacity AFAIK, and the PAK DA will become their standard bomber going forward.



    Yes, it is probably something like that, but I highly doubt that it is produced in "large quantities"
    The Tu-160M will be produced in quantity of "about 50" to equip 2 regiments and probably some for training, and I am afraid that will include the remanufacturing of the 16 that were already in inventory.
    We are surely talking about 3 squadrons of aircraft built from zero.

    I don't think that in PAK-DA much more is manufactured to cover the current Tu-22M3 units, considering that there should be a full squad in Olenya, and perhaps another should be opened in the Far East. There would be 6 squadrons in total, it would take about 80 machines
    At most, these squadrons could be upgraded to regiment, obtaining a total of 4 regiments, that is, something more than 100 machines and that would already seem like a very large amount.


    In any case I would put the PAK-DA in Ucrainka and transfer the Tu-95 / Tu-160 to Beleya

    Another thing that seems ridiculous to me is having all the Il-78s based in Ryazan when they have to go to Anadyr in the Long Range Aviation maneuvers.
    With the arrival of the Il-78M-90A to the VTA, it will not be necessary for the Long Range Aviation to share its Il-78s with the tactical aviation.

    Maybe put a squad of Il-78s in each Long Range Division (in Engels and Ukrainka, for example)




    Hole wrote:If not for Jelzin the Tu-95MS would have been in production until the end of the 90´s. No way the Tu-95MS would be retired shortly after 2000.

    Not really, with the cuts of the Perestroika era and with the launch of the Tu-160 production, the Tu-95 production had an expiration date and in fact died with the USSR, perhaps the last remaining copies in the plant were delivered in mid-1992.

    In any case, if the Tu-160 had continued to be produced in sufficient numbers, the Tu-95 would have been retired in a short time, even the newest, especially taking into account the dynamics of arms reduction since the 1980s.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Aug 24, 2021 7:04 am


    Yes, it is probably something like that, but I highly doubt that it is produced in "large quantities"

    Well you can look at the Bear and say that it was suitable and used for a range of roles... from early AWACS platform, to MPA in the Tu-142 form, and of course long range airliner, but also other potential roles like a JSTARS type platform and of course an inflight refuelling aircraft... but also brand new options like a very long range Fiddler type interceptor.

    We know it will be a low drag aerodynamic platform with modern jet engines and good long flight range performance... the potential for internal space for other options including transport or even surface mounted AESA radar arrays being conducive to AWACS platform, as well as long range maritime patrol platform, or inflight refuelling plane to support other like aircraft.

    In terms of air to air potential it has been mentioned that the new AAMs like Morfei and the Izd 810 long range missile are intended for launch from internal weapon bays so a Tu-128 Fiddler type long range airspace patrol aircraft would be rather interesting.

    Larger stealth aircraft are actually rather harder to detect than smaller ones with long wave radar so the potential for the PAKDA to become some sort of super B-1B type bomber/strike aircraft is enormous with radar arrays giving excellent views of the airspace and battlefield, and capacity to carry anti radiation missiles and hypersonic weapons and of course self defence AA missiles is actually rather interesting... never before has their been a plane that was large that could conceivably defend itself by being hard to spot in the first place and carrying enough anti missile self defence missiles and long range anti radiation missiles to do some real damage to smaller countries and also to bigger ones.

    A 10,000km range mach 10 strategic missile is interesting, but a conventionally armed 8,000km range hypersonic manouvering anti ship version would be interesting too and having 12 or more internally per aircraft would be an excellent replacement for Tu-22M3 backfires in the theatre heavy strike role...

    Talk of civilian supersonic airliners based on the Tu-160... wonder if there will be speculation about a civilian PAK DA flying wing airliner/transport.

    Their focus will no doubt be on making them affordable as well as effective... which will make them even more effective.

    In any case, if the Tu-160 had continued to be produced in sufficient numbers, the Tu-95 would have been retired in a short time, even the newest, especially taking into account the dynamics of arms reduction since the 1980s.

    I am not sure that is true... the costs and problems with the Blackjack were not insignificant... the talk about the noise the Bear made is amusing because it was the excess noise the Blackjack made that was what was being reported... and the costs of operating them are much higher than for the Bear, though having the engines back in production might ease that problem.

    The core problem with the Blackjack was that they only every had 20-30 available which is really not enough to have a useful force, and despite the small number there was quite a bit of variation between the aircraft they had... which was also a driver for the upgrades they have received to get them all with the same new equipment and systems.

    The plans for production of 50-60 Blackjacks is a good step but not enough for them to completely take over the strategic missile carrier role.
    AMCXXL
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    Post  AMCXXL Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:06 am

    Too late, more than 10 years late ...



    https://www.aex.ru/news/2021/8/24/233980/

    Tupolev will modernize Tu-95MS missile carriers for the Ministry of Defense to the level of Tu-95MSM
    Tu-95MS "Bear" - Page 11 Tr
    Tu-95MS "Bear" - Page 11 29548
    Tu-95MS
    photo of the Ministry of Defense


    August 24, 2021, AviaStat.ru - The Russian Defense Ministry signed a contract with Tupolev PJSC for the modernization of the Tu-95MS to the level of the Tu-95MSM . This was reported to reporters on Tuesday at the military department, writes TASS .
    "During the Army-2021 International Military-Technical Forum, a state contract was signed for the modernization of Tu-95MS strategic missile carriers into the Tu-95MSM version," the Defense Ministry said.
    The document was signed by the Deputy Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation Alexei Krivoruchko and the managing director of Tupolev Vadim Korolev.
    As a result of the modernization, the missile carriers will significantly increase the navigation accuracy and reliability indicators, the service life of the aviation complex will be extended, and the take-off and landing characteristics will be improved. The aircraft will be equipped with new weapons control systems, aircraft control, flight and navigation equipment, an onboard communications complex, a radar station, and objective control equipment.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Aug 25, 2021 6:28 am

    I seem to remember this upgrade includes unification of radars and computers and systems inside the aircraft to be the same for the three heavy Tupolevs... and to also unify the weapons management systems so a broader range of weapons can be carried.

    The PAK DAs wont be in service in numbers before 2030 so this upgrade makes sense now even if it would have been better 10 years ago... of course making it now means it will be Russian components and parts used and no foreign bits so that is a bonus.
    AMCXXL
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    Post  AMCXXL Wed Aug 25, 2021 3:13 pm

    GarryB wrote:I seem to remember this upgrade includes unification of radars and computers and systems inside the aircraft to be the same for the three heavy Tupolevs... and to also unify the weapons management systems so a broader range of weapons can be carried.

    The PAK DAs wont be in service in numbers before 2030 so this upgrade makes sense now even if it would have been better 10 years ago... of course making it now means it will be Russian components and parts used and no foreign bits so that is a bonus.

    In any case, it is unnecessarily throwing money away
    By 2028 Emgels' Tu-95s should be replaced by a squad of newly built Tu-160Ms.

    The fact that the Ucrainka Tu-95s are updated at the same time indicates that they will not be replaced by Tu-160M when this is what should happen from 2028, and this has nothing to do with the PAK-DA

    The Tu-160; It will go to Belaya almost with total security, by simple logic, the carriers of strategic missiles Tu-160M will go in the rear, in the Central Military District (Engels and Belaya). On the other hand, the standard multi-function PAK-DA bombers will go in front areas (Shaikovka, Olenya and the Far East)

    Why the Tu-95 are simply not based in Belaya until more Tu-160M ​​arrive in 2028 ?? and the Tu-22M3 are based in Ucrainka and you forget about the Tu-95MSM modernization ?? concentrating resources on modernizing the Tu-22M3M, which is necessary. for more years to fill the gap until it arrives in PAK-DA, which will last im production until almost 2050?

    Very simple, moving the regiments from place to place is to transfer all the personnel and their families and retrain them for different aircraft and tactics, including mechanics and technicians, and only until 2028 when they will have to re-adapt to the Tu-160M
    This type of change implies social problems that cause discomfort in the military, in my own country they have had problems to reform units and move them from place, since it implies social problems with military personnel that politicians are not going to cause, not to mention that those who make these reform decisions are the generals themselves involved in the transfer
    In addition to that, so much change cannot be made are units that are part of the nuclear triad, you cannot have these units in a period without real operation, therefore it is better to train another unit of strategic bombers from zero and when years later it is fully operational. performance, remove the other

    Therefore it is easier not to touch anything and to do the replacement of the aircraft and the conversion of the regiment only one time
    Thus, when the PAK-DA comes into operation, after 2030 there will be 4 different aircraft in operation in Long Range Aviation, when the goal is to have only 2 at the end



    Then,, what can be observed is that in 2028 there will be Tu-160 in Engels, Tu-95 in Ucrainka, and Tu-22 in Shaikovka, Olenya and Belaya.

    - after 2028, the next Tu-160M will enter Belaya leaving the Tu-22s available for another new base
    - While the PAK-DA will enter Shaikovka or Olenya
    - Previously the modernized Tu-22M3M will have entered in the another available base and perhaps even another one will open in the Far East with the remaining Tu-22M3s.
    - In the very long term all those Tu-22 bases will be replaced by PAK-DA and finally also the Tu-95MSM of Ukrainka, once the two Tu-160M regiments are fully operational.


    Last edited by AMCXXL on Wed Aug 25, 2021 3:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
    franco
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    Post  franco Wed Aug 25, 2021 3:15 pm

    And of course we don't know how many of them will be upgraded either.
    AMCXXL
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    Post  AMCXXL Wed Aug 25, 2021 3:22 pm

    franco wrote:And of course we don't know how many of them will be upgraded either.

    A regiment, (Ukrainka), plus several training / reserve to cover losses, about 28 aircraft
    Just enough to fill the gap until new replacement planes arrive

    These aircraft are probably the ones that have been being repaired with the MLU which includes the under-wing missile mounts
    The route is always the same, first MLU, then modernization.
    There are now at least 25 known Tu-95s with under-wing mounts, most at Engels, as the Tu-160M arrives they will be modernized and shipped to Ukrainka.


    All the Tu-95 of Engels already have missile mounts under the wings, plus some from Ukrainka, should all eventually be upgraded to MSM, discarding the Tu-95MS-6
    Tu-95MS "Bear" - Page 11 27321810


    Last edited by AMCXXL on Wed Aug 25, 2021 3:36 pm; edited 2 times in total
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Wed Aug 25, 2021 3:24 pm

    AMCXXL wrote:Too late, more than 10 years late ...

    Why ?

    If it gets stand off missiles it is still good.

    Why buy a Pak Da to launch missiles 3000km away from the first line of defence ?

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    AMCXXL
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    Post  AMCXXL Wed Aug 25, 2021 3:30 pm

    Isos wrote:
    AMCXXL wrote:Too late, more than 10 years late ...

    Why ?

    If it gets stand off missiles it is still good.

    Why buy a Pak Da to launch missiles 3000km away from the first line of defence ?


    I don't see what the PAK-DA has to do, the Tu-95 is replaced in its role as strategic bomber of the nuclear triad by the Tu-160M, as I explained above, a simple change of base of the Tu-95 regiment is what that prevents the Tu-95 of Ukrainka from being replaced from 2028 by the Tu-160M
    marcellogo
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    Post  marcellogo Thu Aug 26, 2021 11:18 am

    AMCXXL wrote:Too late, more than 10 years late ...

    Tupolev will modernize Tu-95MS missile carriers for the Ministry of Defense to the level of Tu-95MSM

    Tu-95MS
    photo of the Ministry of Defense
    [/center]


    August 24, 2021, AviaStat.ru - The Russian Defense Ministry signed a contract with Tupolev PJSC for the modernization of the Tu-95MS to the level of the Tu-95MSM . This was reported to reporters on Tuesday at the military department, writes TASS .
    "During the Army-2021 International Military-Technical Forum, a state contract was signed for the modernization of Tu-95MS strategic missile carriers into the Tu-95MSM version," the Defense Ministry said.
    The document was signed by the Deputy Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation Alexei Krivoruchko and the managing director of Tupolev Vadim Korolev.
    As a result of the modernization, the missile carriers will significantly increase the navigation accuracy and reliability indicators, the service life of the aviation complex will be extended, and the take-off and landing characteristics will be improved. The aircraft will be equipped with new weapons control systems, aircraft control, flight and navigation equipment, an onboard communications complex, a radar station, and objective control equipment.

    I beg to differ here: modernizing them before revamping production of Tu-160 and modernizing Tu-22 would have been an one off move , not changing much in the overall strenght of the VVS of the time, then still beginning the modernization process.

    Now, it allow to have the great majority of the bomber force at the same technological level and this in a moment the "most probable opponent" has instead an HUGE problem of obsolescency not just in the bomber force but in the whole array of its own air force planes.

    About the objections of ACMXXL: they have sense but until the upgrade would be limited to just an half of the current force and new Tu-160 would be still introduced little by little (2-3 at year) while modernization of Tu-95 would be way faster the problem is not so great.
    Passage from MS to MSM will be smooth and the modernization of the whole Ukrainka regiment would be completed way before the substitution of Emgel ones.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Aug 26, 2021 11:53 am

    By 2028 Emgels' Tu-95s should be replaced by a squad of newly built Tu-160Ms.

    Maybe they want to expand their strategic missile carrier fleet... the Bear have excellent range and payload capacity... being subsonic they can carry lots of weapons externally without effecting flight speed and range too much, so to loiter around the Arctic with hypersonic missiles able to destroy AEGIS class cruisers would be a very useful thing... ie no longer part of the strategic attack force and more in line with B-1Bs based in Norway...

    The upgrade will make them more useful and more capable and put more money in the pockets of the companies that upgrade the aircraft meaning more money for new stuff down the track.

    Why the Tu-95 are simply not based in Belaya until more Tu-160M ​​arrive in 2028 ?? and the Tu-22M3 are based in Ucrainka and you forget about the Tu-95MSM modernization ?? concentrating resources on modernizing the Tu-22M3M, which is necessary. for more years to fill the gap until it arrives in PAK-DA, which will last im production until almost 2050?

    Maybe the plan is to only upgrade 60 Tu-22M3Ms is because they are the ones being removed from service first... perhaps upgraded Tu-95MSMs are going to replace the Tu-22M3Ms in the long range border patrol with missiles to sink ships role.... with their flight speed the Tu-22M3M might get izd 810 long range missiles and a big AESA radar and operate like slow MiG-31s... perhaps even air launched S-500s too....

    Thus, when the PAK-DA comes into operation, after 2030 there will be 4 different aircraft in operation in Long Range Aviation, when the goal is to have only 2 at the end

    But by the time the PAK DA starts coming into operation there will only be 60 Tu-22M3M left at best and they will share radar and engines and avionics with the Tu-160s and everything but the engines with the upgraded Bears... as the PAK DA is introduced it will displace Bears and the Bears might displace the Backfires... I rather suspect what they do with the Backfires depends on the political situation at the time... if it is still this bad then Backfires with air to air missiles and an enormous AESA radar would be interesting as a long range CAP aircraft for patrolling the arctic monitoring things...

    - In the very long term all those Tu-22 bases will be replaced by PAK-DA and finally also the Tu-95MSM of Ukrainka, once the two Tu-160M regiments are fully operational.

    The Tu-22M3s might end up going back to the Navy for heavy long range patrol fighter/strike aircraft... with new engines and inflight refuelling probes they would be quite useful for a range of roles.

    I don't see what the PAK-DA has to do, the Tu-95 is replaced in its role as strategic bomber of the nuclear triad by the Tu-160M, as I explained above, a simple change of base of the Tu-95 regiment is what that prevents the Tu-95 of Ukrainka from being replaced from 2028 by the Tu-160M

    The Bears could be tranfered to the Navy to cover the northern sea route, but also potentially to carry lots of hypersonic missiles that could be launched at enemy ships sitting in the Arctic ocean hoping to potshot both ICBMs heading over the pole but also engage Russian bombers flying to their launch positions...

    Having Bears patrolling the airspace there already and armed with 5,000km hypersonic missiles optimised for hitting ships instead of cities would be an excellent way of dealing with such threats...

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    Post  AMCXXL Thu Aug 26, 2021 6:55 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Maybe they want to expand their strategic missile carrier fleet... the Bear have excellent range and payload capacity... being subsonic they can carry lots of weapons externally without effecting flight speed and range too much, so to loiter around the Arctic with hypersonic missiles able to destroy AEGIS class cruisers would be a very useful thing... ie no longer part of the strategic attack force and more in line with B-1Bs based in Norway

    Well, having many more strategic bombers is like having many more Boreys, there are a number of nuclear warheads according to the arms limitation treaties, so it does not make sense to have many more carriers of those nuclear warheads.

    The question, as I said above, is that it no longer makes sense to have the strategic missile carriers in Ukrainka, that is, closer to the enemy than the Tu-22M3 of Belaya.

    Until 2009 you had Tu-22M3 in Vozdvizhenka and Mongokhto, therefore Ukrainka was in second line.
    Now if you need Tu-22M3 in the Pacific you have to travel from Irkutsk.
    If you look at the map, the distance from Belaya and Ukrainka to Tiksi, where those strategic bombers could go out into the Arctic towards Canada, is the same: about 2300 km.
    Therefore it is much more logical to put the strategic weapon in Siberia and bring the Tu-22M3 / PAK-DA again near the Pacific.

    However, if you simply change the Tu-95 to Belaya and the Tu-22 to Ukrainka, the transfer (exchange) means that you need 6, 8 or more years to recover the real operation,
    Especially since a large part of the staff is not going to change of air base, and you will even lose some of them in the VKS.

    You cannot afford to have the entire eastern half of the country without really operational bombers, especially the strategic carriers whose main mission is to be in position from day D to hour H in a MAD situation.
    It simply cannot be done, so the only remedy is to extend the service of the Ukrainka Base while in Belaya you enter a new regiment with new planes and meanwhile you reopen another Tu.22M3 base on the Pacific coast.

    And this is going to take time because the manufacturing rate of the Tu-160 is going to be very slow, no more than 3-4 a year. And it will probably be the same with the PAK-DA, if you need 80 to 100 do not count on more than 5 or 6 a year, from +2030 to 2050.

    Long Range Aviation reform is a very long term thing



    Maybe the plan is to only upgrade 60 Tu-22M3Ms is because they are the ones being removed from service first... perhaps upgraded Tu-95MSMs are going to replace the Tu-22M3Ms in the long range border patrol with missiles to sink ships role.... with their flight speed the Tu-22M3M might get izd 810 long range missiles and a big AESA radar and operate like slow MiG-31s... perhaps even air launched S-500s too....

    But by the time the PAK DA starts coming into operation there will only be 60 Tu-22M3M left at best and they will share radar and engines and avionics with the Tu-160s and everything but the engines with the upgraded Bears... as the PAK DA is introduced it will displace Bears and the Bears might displace the Backfires... I rather suspect what they do with the Backfires depends on the political situation at the time... if it is still this bad then Backfires with air to air missiles and an enormous AESA radar would be interesting as a long range CAP aircraft for patrolling the arctic monitoring things...

    Well, they have about 50 Tu-22M3 in reserve with a very short use, so they have many hours of flight left until the first PAK-DA arrive.

    the modernization of the Tu-95MSM and the Tu-22M3M must be seen only as an intermediate step to act as a bridge until the new aircraft are ready.
    Borisov already said that they should concentrate on new types of weapons and not continue with old Soviet projects.
    But of course everything took time and while it is called, we must extend the life of the planes that are in the inventory right now
    But of course everything took time and while new aircraft are not available, we must extend the life of the planes that are in the inventory right now

    - In the very long term all those Tu-22 bases will be replaced by PAK-DA and finally also the Tu-95MSM of Ukrainka, once the two Tu-160M regiments are fully operational.

    It could be that Olenya's heavy bombers would be transferred back to the Navy and the Mongjokto squad reopened, but they would still be replaced by PAK-DA in the long run.
    Upgrades only serve to extend service life for as long as it takes until new aircraft are built. It is something necessary, but in which you do not have to invest too much money or effort.



    The Bears could be tranfered to the Navy to cover the northern sea route, but also potentially to carry lots of hypersonic missiles that could be launched at enemy ships sitting in the Arctic ocean hoping to potshot both ICBMs heading over the pole but also engage Russian bombers flying to their launch positions...
    Having Bears patrolling the airspace there already and armed with 5,000km hypersonic missiles optimised for hitting ships instead of cities would be an excellent way of dealing with such threats...

    No, the Bears will not transfer, they have fulfilled their role and their days are numbered.
    Soviet hardware has a lot of history and is beautiful, especially for those of us who are nostalgic for the 80s, but everything comes to an end and they will have to be replaced, it does not make sense to open new units just to keep old planes longer.[/quote]
    GarryB
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    Tu-95MS "Bear" - Page 11 Empty Re: Tu-95MS "Bear"

    Post  GarryB Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:35 am

    The Bears could continue to operate well past 2050 because it will be new weapons that penetrate enemy air defences and hit targets and not the aircraft themselves.

    They are not going to put the Blackjack or the PAK DA into massive rapid serial production making dozens a year, but look at America... they have not retired a type of strategic bomber since the 1960s... B-52, B-1B, B-2, and now B-21 which is just a B-2 again... none have been retired because it is easy to find uses for them and the oldest ones with upgrades are still cheap to use.

    They will shift the planes around for different roles... in the near future they are going to shift focus to their Navy to support expansion into the rest of the world so they can ignore the west a bit more and get on with trade and commerce with the rest of the planet... that will require more ships, but basing Bears in Venezuela would mean being able to fly anti ship operations in Americas backyard... the way the US is putting soldiers and equipment in Georgia and Ukraine and Japan and South Korea...

    The current strategic arms treaty is weak is water and limits totals but loses most of the details like restrictions on warhead numbers and types that were present in START II...

    Permanent conversion of some of the planes to take only AAMs and anti ship missiles and non strategic weapons is not hard...

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    Isos
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    Tu-95MS "Bear" - Page 11 Empty Re: Tu-95MS "Bear"

    Post  Isos Fri Aug 27, 2021 1:21 pm

    AMCXXL wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    AMCXXL wrote:Too late, more than 10 years late ...

    Why ?

    If it gets stand off missiles it is still good.

    Why buy a Pak Da to launch missiles 3000km away from the first line of defence ?


    I don't see what the PAK-DA has to do, the Tu-95 is replaced in its role as strategic bomber of the nuclear triad by the Tu-160M, as I explained above, a simple change of base of the Tu-95 regiment is what that prevents the Tu-95 of Ukrainka from being replaced from 2028 by the Tu-160M

    Pak da or tu-160.

    My point is that if your missiles have an ultra long range giving them always enough stand off to be always totally safe, then you don't need a 200 million $ bomber. Any simple aircraft is good enough.

    Even an MS-21 can do the job.

    Tu-95 have still a lot of potential then with an upgrade.

    It's like US using 200 million $ airplanes and 1 million $ guided bombs when a 200 000$ drone with a 5000$ atgm can do the work just as good.

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    AMCXXL
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    Post  AMCXXL Sat Aug 28, 2021 7:58 pm

    Well, we already have here the first series aircraft that will be delivered as Tu-95MSM, they have already painted the type of modification on the fuselage
    It is the RF-94121 Nº21 "Samara", for the content it seems that it is in the TANKT Berieva plant in Taganrog , where it was already in update at least since last year when it appears with the missile mounts under the wings

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