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marcellogo
RTN
Russian_Patriot_
flamming_python
d_taddei2
Hole
TheArmenian
DerWolf
magnumcromagnon
sepheronx
GunshipDemocracy
George1
GarryB
TR1
medo
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21 posters

    Air Defence of VDV units

    dino00
    dino00

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    Post  dino00 Wed Aug 25, 2021 3:24 pm

    RTN wrote:
    Hole wrote:S-500 was designed to do exactly this. Of course, when western hypersonic missiles enter service Russia will already field the S-600 system. Laughing
    S-500 was designed as a mobile A-135 whose primary task would be to intercept ICBMs.

    S-500 can't destroy incoming hypersonic cruise missiles.

    S-400E can destroy some types of hypersonic cruise missiles, why wouldn't S-500. Makes no sense.
    They can even destroy some types of HGV
    RTN
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    Post  RTN Wed Aug 25, 2021 4:44 pm

    dino00 wrote:S-400E can destroy some types of hypersonic cruise missiles, why wouldn't S-500. Makes no sense.
    They can even destroy some types of HGV
    Do you realize how difficult it is to track a hypersonic missile leave alone destroying it? DEW may provide an answer but that's at least 10 year away.

    S-400 is designed to destroy IRBMs, S-500 for ICBMs.
    dino00
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    Post  dino00 Wed Aug 25, 2021 5:47 pm

    Air Defence of VDV units - Page 4 Downlo10

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    Hole
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    Post  Hole Wed Aug 25, 2021 11:04 pm

    The russian MoD has clearly stated that S-500 is capable of shooting down hypersonic missiles.

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Wed Aug 25, 2021 11:37 pm

    RTN wrote:
    S-500 can't destroy incoming hypersonic cruise missiles.

    Why would Russia want to destroy it's own hypersonic missiles? There won't be any other hypersonic missiles to shoot at. russia

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Wed Aug 25, 2021 11:42 pm


    Do you realize how difficult it is to track a hypersonic missile leave alone destroying it?

    That is your problem - not Russia's.

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    medo
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    Post  medo Thu Aug 26, 2021 2:09 am

    RTN wrote:VDV will probably operate under the S-400, S-500 umbrella.

    However, NATO will strike VDV along with the S-400, S-500 with hypersonic cruise missiles.

    Modern day SAM systems like S-400, S-500, THAAD, PAC-3 are not designed to defeat hypersonic cruise missiles.

    Depends... If VDV is used for quick deployment from one Russian region to another, than they will be absolutely under S-400 and S-500 umbrella. But if they will be deployed somewhere outside Russia, than most probably not. In than case air force will be their cover.

    NATO doesn't have hypersonic cruise missiles, Russia have. US tests of their hypersonic missile up to now failed.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Aug 26, 2021 6:19 pm

    VDV will probably operate under the S-400, S-500 umbrella.

    Unlikely... the VDV would operate in enemy rear areas and likely would be out of range of the S-400 and S-500 systems.

    Their mobility together with short and possibly medium range air defence from the ground, and probably air power support.

    The focus against a strong enemy would likely to seize a port or airport so other support platforms can be brought in...

    However, NATO will strike VDV along with the S-400, S-500 with hypersonic cruise missiles.

    Not many good reasons for the VDV to attack deep behind HATO lines... at best they might deliver them to Kaliningrad to support defence against HATO attack, but it will be Russian hypersonic and IRBM and IRCM that will be hitting HATO targets...


    Modern day SAM systems like S-400, S-500, THAAD, PAC-3 are not designed to defeat hypersonic cruise missiles.

    Not at the moment, but testing and development work could create algorythms that make them able to get pretty close to the hypersonic targets... especially with fake signals from the SAMs that make the hypersonic weapons think the SAMs are somewhere else so they manouver towards where the SAMs are instead of away from them... and of course a decent nuke warhead on the SAM to make up the difference...

    S-500 was designed to do exactly this. Of course, when western hypersonic missiles enter service Russia will already field the S-600 system.

    The S-500 already can intercept much faster targets, but would need further work to attack targets actually manouvering to evade interception... ATM it is designed for predictable targets on a predictable trajectory even if they are moving very fast along that trajectory, but it would not be impossible for them to improve its performance against a manouvering target... especially currently while they don't exist... their makers of manouvering hypersonic missiles can give them information about what manouvers they might use to evade interception which could allow them to work out counters to such evasion manoeuvres.

    S-500 was designed as a mobile A-135 whose primary task would be to intercept ICBMs.

    It was designed to hit fast moving targets including ICBMs, SLBMs, and satellites in low earth orbit.

    Current hypersonic threats move much slower than 7km per second... Zircon for instance moves at 3.2km/s which is actually slower than the 4.8km/s speed of targets the S-400 and S-350 can intercept BTW... but they would need to do some work to compensate for a manouvering target.

    S-500 can't destroy incoming hypersonic cruise missiles.

    It was not designed to intercept manouvering hypersonic missiles, but that does not mean it cannot be adapted to do so... they have time on their hands and real missiles to test against.

    Do you realize how difficult it is to track a hypersonic missile leave alone destroying it? DEW may provide an answer but that's at least 10 year away.

    Tracking is not the problem... tracking has never been the problem.

    S-400 is designed to destroy IRBMs, S-500 for ICBMs.

    S-400 can be used against targets moving at up to 4.8km/s and S-500 against targets at 7km/s or faster.

    Depends... If VDV is used for quick deployment from one Russian region to another, than they will be absolutely under S-400 and S-500 umbrella. But if they will be deployed somewhere outside Russia, than most probably not. In than case air force will be their cover.

    Being deployed to Kaliningrad or the Kuriles would allow them to operate under S-400 and S-500 systems, but most other places not likely...

    Broski
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    Post  Broski Thu Aug 26, 2021 11:38 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Depends... If VDV is used for quick deployment from one Russian region to another, than they will be absolutely under S-400 and S-500 umbrella. But if they will be deployed somewhere outside Russia, than most probably not. In than case air force will be their cover.

    Being deployed to Kaliningrad or the Kuriles would allow them to operate under S-400 and S-500 systems, but most other places not likely...

    Realistically, Poland and the Ukraine are the most likely adversary nations they'd be deployed to in the case of conflict which would actually put them under the S-400/500 umbrella. Those 2 countries are the most rabidly russophobic in Eastern Europe and close enough to Russian territory to make a nuclear strike less desirable. Other countries they could potentially be deployed to is Serbia to secure the airport for deliveries of S-400's to protect them from receiving Yugoslavia 2.0.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Fri Aug 27, 2021 2:15 pm

    Realistically, Poland and the Ukraine are the most likely adversary nations they'd be deployed to in the case of conflict which would actually put them under the S-400/500 umbrella.

    I am not so sure.... they are certainly hostile to Russia but there is no value in sending VDV forces into either country... if there is something in each country that represents a threat to Russia like a US base or US ABM system then it makes more sense to srike with hypersonic ground or air launched missiles to destroy the problem.

    An invasion to "take over" makes no sense at all... there is no value in Russia seizing and occupying a territory that does not already see itself as Russian... otherwise Kiev and Tiblisi would already be occupied.

    Russia doesn't need that sort of BS... let them sort out their own problems.

    Those 2 countries are the most rabidly russophobic in Eastern Europe and close enough to Russian territory to make a nuclear strike less desirable.

    Russian technology has grown to the point where nukes are not really required... they have shown in Syria that they can find and hit targets deep in enemy territory with a level of accuracy that seems to have upset the west...

    Other countries they could potentially be deployed to is Serbia to secure the airport for deliveries of S-400's to protect them from receiving Yugoslavia 2.0.

    That would be more like a peaceful deployment, plus Serbia would be much safer getting lots of Panstir systems and perhaps S-350.... smaller and mobile but still with good range and altitude performance and easier to hide.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Fri Aug 27, 2021 4:30 pm

    S-400 doesn't create a bubble of 400km.

    At 400km radar horizon will make it impossible to fire at targets flying at low altitude and ground terrain will never be flat so there will always be hills and mountains to restrain it detection area.


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