Russian Fighter Aircraft Prospects

"Rosoboronexport" Aviation Prospects
03.08.2009

"Rosoboronexport" will expand the market for sales of military aircraft from Latin America, Libya and Croatia, even with Vietnam. Compete, especially in the segment of heavy aircraft, which will soon be Su-35, "Rosoboronexport" is quite capable. But it would be easier to negotiate when the hands will be the main trump card - the exact timing of the development and production of fifth generation aircraft.

"Rosoboronexport" announced their plans to increase exports of military aircraft. In the near future, the Group intends to significantly expand the geography of its sales, said zamgendirektora "Rosoboronexport" Alexander Mikheyev in an interview with the publication of "arms", which will be released next week.

Exports of Russian military aviation engineering third year remain at about the same level. This year, the export of military aircraft of $ 2.6 billion experts believe that this is quite a good result. Major markets have long been divided, with many contracts in force until now, concluded a few years ago. "Recently, we have consistently sell for 40 aircraft per year. The Americans about the same size, even smaller ones," - explained the expert Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies (ACT) Konstantin Makienko. In doing so, the sale of each new combat aircraft will generate approximately $ 100 million aircraft itself is worth about $ 40 million, the rest gives Aerodromnaya logistics, expensive aircraft destruction (missiles and bombs), spare parts, training of pilots.

Now the list of consumers of domestic military aircraft includes India, China, Algeria, Malaysia and Venezuela. But the supply of fighter jets Su-30MKM Malaysia to the same end in this year. Ends the contract and the Algerian Air Force. The main consumer China is already well staffed.

Air Fleet Celestial has a 300 aircraft Su-27 and Su-30 Russian-made. "The Chinese are now occupied the fence, they need a more modern aircraft," - said Makienko.

This is a heavy aircraft Su-35. So far, only the aircraft is being tested and will be released in the series, and therefore the export, not before 2012. But now "Rosoboronexport" pillar location. "Today, as a result of technical advice to the Chinese side had proposed collaboration on the Su-35 in the form of purchases of aircraft ready to follow the organization of licensed production in China", - says plans Mikheyev. Consultations on this issue will likely continue at the upcoming air show in August at Zhukovsky.

But the absolute guarantee for the Chinese order no. Apparently, this uncertainty was once the chief of his partner, forced "Rosoboronexport" to seek new markets.

In the Middle East can supply MiG-29SMT in Egypt, a new batch of these machines can be purchased Yemen, said Mikheyev.

Also, "Rosoboronexport" hopes to increase the presence of Russian military fighter aircraft to Latin America, which considers as promising the Venezuelan and Ecuadorian markets. "Venezuela will sooner or later, the regiment of Su-35 (24 aircraft)," - said Makienko. In his view, is not taken into account Brazil: the country could "shoot" and buy from 12 to 24 aircraft.

In addition, the "Rosoboronexport" hoping for a breakthrough on the Libyan market. In fact, the aviation component of country's air force is based on Russian and Soviet technology. "The pilots and engineers and technicians were trained in Russian and Soviet universities. The tactics of warfare based on the use of our aircraft. Libya today - this is one of the leading North African countries with good financial opportunities that allow it to plan the acquisition of a major technology," - says Mikheev. Another point is that the Libyans - a very demanding and selective purchases of IWT. Despite the fact that Libya, as the Mikheev, showing keen interest in the MiG-35, Su-35, the latest shock attack helicopters, air defense systems, experts believe that global procurement, as in the past, Libya exercise will not be . According to Makienko, it can be ordered from the "Rosoboronexport" new planes for about $ 2 billion

In the "Rosoboronexport" perfectly aware that the current range, in fact, has already exhausted itself. For full competition with the same Americans need new advantages. It is no coincidence, says Mikheev, "in 2020 and further focus will shift to the promotion of emerging today aircraft Su-35, MiG-35, MiG-29M/M2 in the future - the fifth-generation aircraft."

"If the Su-35 will be fast, but it is an interim aircraft between the present and future models of the fifth generation fighter aircraft, the heavy air, we really will be all good - explains Makienko. - In this market we now have everything that can and will be even growth potential. " Successful implementation of the project Su-35 will enable the "Rosoboronexport" to offer the market a product whose performance surpasses all created so far. As soon as the "dry" will complete the work on Su-35, a company with a head plunge into the most ambitious project to create the fifth-generation aircraft. Creating a fifth generation fighter aircraft valued at U.S. $ 12-14 billion of its main Unlike predecessors - all available information is analyzed and a computer issued to a pilot in the form of tips.

And if everything goes as promised in the "dry", the export option can be offered to the world market after 2015. "I think the real term supply fifth-generation aircraft - in 2020 - said Makienko. - The American experience shows - from the first flight of the prototype and delivery of the aircraft in the series, even with adequate financing usually requires 10 years." Much earlier on the world market will be an American fighter JSF, which will be the main competitor of the Russian fighter.

Here is a MiG-35 (a new modification of the MiG-29) - airplane middle class - the competition is already предостаточно. "Mikheyev said that the chances for victory in the Indian tender MiG-35 is quite high. But the division of Indian contract with its aircraft could intervene French Rafale, Swedish Grippen, American F-16, Eurofighter, - said Makienko. Source Gazety.Ru "in" dry "adds:" Do not forget: the negotiations on the sale of military aviation in general arhislozhnaya thing. Here the role of a million things: traditional country, the Air Force preference previously concluded contracts, policies, oil and gas issues, and even color seller.

Andrey Kovalevsky

http://www.gazeta.ru/index.shtml

All throw it probably wont I would like Croatia to go for MIG-35 and all the Vympel/Novator/Bazalt goodies witch go along

RF present at LAVEX-2009 latest range of aviation

00:55 05/10/2009

Tripoli (Libya), Oct 5 - RIA Novosti, Valery Yarmolenko. Russia will submit to LAVEX-2009 latest range of aircraft, air defense systems and precision-guided missiles, air-to-air and air-to-surface missiles, RIA Novosti learned from spokesperson of the "Rosoboronexport".

Fourth Arab-African Aviation Conference and Exhibition LAVEX-2009 will be held 5-8 October in the Libyan capital city of Tripoli.

Enterprise is in Tripoli, a wide range of Russia's aircraft, weapons, air defense and other high-tech products. This is due to the increased attention to it by the countries of the Middle East and North Africa "- a source said.

According to him, there is particular interest with regard to maneuverability multipurpose fighter Su-35, which used a fifth-generation technology, providing superior to analogue.

The main features of the Su-35 are: the latest avionics and radar, allowing a large range of detecting and tracking up to 30 goals and lead a simultaneous firing of eight of them.

A new powerful engine with thrust-vectoring engines provide aircraft maneuverability.

This aircraft can strike at any air, land and sea targets in all conditions day and night. His combat load of up to eight tons of guided and unguided weapons.

"We expect the specialists to focus on the procurement of arms will combat trainer Yak-130, will soon be available in the Air Force of Russia. Certainly looking forward to the latest Su-35 and MiG-35", - said a spokesman for the company.

Through superior-performance, reliable wire management system and a modern "glass cockpit", Yak-130 provides effective and safe management training current and future aircraft of Russia and foreign production.

This aircraft can operate from unpaved airfields. His resource - 10 thousand flight hours, and the airframe is designed to operate for at least 30 years. In addition, the Yak-130 can be used to address the strike missions in conflict situations of limited intensity.

"In addition, serious interest from several countries in the region is a reconnaissance attack helicopter Kamov Ka-52A" Alligator ", - said the agency interlocutor.

In addition to extensive combat capabilities as the attack helicopter, its crew can carry out reconnaissance and target designation interactive aviation and ground strike systems, including laser "highlight" purposes.

At Alligator installed the most modern complexes of enemy detection and targeting, realized the possibility of automated flight at low altitudes.

The helicopter can also be used for training and maintenance of flight natrenirovannosti pilots without recourse to special educational or training helicopter-analogue.

"The exhibition for professionals will also be on display the latest anti-aircraft missile system S-400 Triumf, designed to combat all types of existing and emerging air threats," - said the agency interlocutor

Anti-aircraft missile systems that are part of "Triumph", striking aerodynamic targets at a distance of 250 kilometers, ballistic - up to 60 kilometers at an altitude of 27 kilometers. This system can be integrated into the structure of any air defense system.

"Like, for example, air defense missile-gun complexes" Pantsir-C1, capable of hitting targets with a minimum reflective surface ", - explained the expert.

During LAVEX-2009 will be discussed and other promising lines of military-technical cooperation. The company will present partners with precision air guided missile air-to-air missiles, air-to-surface missiles, bombs, adjustable, and a wide range of radar and sighting systems, simulators for training gunners, anti-aircraft gunners, the elements of the onboard equipment, navigation systems and flight control, communications and life support.

"A significant part in meetings on LAVEX-2009 will be paid to the construction of airfields, a technical service centers and the organization of complex systems aftermarket equipment, licensing and assembly plants," - noted the spokesperson of the company.

Russia has military-technical cooperation with more than 70 countries.

http://www.rian.ru/defense_safety/20091005/187517977.html

Well Rosobonoexport stated that it already signed 5 cotracts with Libya ot of 30 being prepared .. so I guess things have finally begin to move from dead spot. It about a time we see Gadafy spending some money on things like Su-30/35 S-300/400 and MIg-29/35

Due to India selecting Rafale as for their MRMA, it might be possible that RuAF may not get its hands on Mig-35.  It is the cost factor as 126 for India would have resulted in production lines already set up and paid for and then Mig-35s would have come in relatively cheaper for RuAF.  Unless some other country orders them, RuAF might have to add up more Su-35s instead of Migs.  More so, because Su-35 is a near match vis-a-vis F-35 so may be a better option.  

Two reasons Indians went for Rafaele were (I think) very low RCS and complete technology transfer agreement.  But then planes like Mig-35 and Su-35 are nearly half the price of Rafeale and all the 3 qualify for 4+++ planes.  I think Su-35 is the best among these but may be because of Su30MKI in their inventory, Indians wanted some diversification and stealth features.

Stealth was not part of the requirement for the competition.

Personally I disagree with their choice.

They seem to think that diversification of aircraft leads to more capabilities.

Personally I think it will more likely lead to extra cost for no real tangible gain.

I could understand diversifying away from someone who has a history of being unreliable like the US or UK, but any problems with Russian equipment could be dealt with.

AFAIK money for the Mig-35 is in the GVP-2020.

The recent order of Mig-29Ks will be good for Mig anyway, but I think the Indians have shot themselves in the foot.

Money invested in the Mig-35 would create upgrade paths for their 62 odd Mig-29s still in service and of course could also be applied to their Mig-29Ks.

If Mig is left starving and stunted through lack of business then the Indian Navy just bought some white elephants, and the Indian AF is throwing good money after bad with their UPG upgrades.

Instead they are spending an enormous amount of money on a totally new aircraft type, and for what?

Dubious stealth?

The radars of old model Pakistani F-16s will have no trouble detecting and tracking armed Rafales at normal ranges.

It would have been cheaper to buy just buy another 120 Su-30MKIs.

At this point there is no way the Su-35 is half price of the Rafale. If we are talking about an export bird, I would not expect the difference to be much -depends on how much the French try to squeeze out of their customers. RuAF naturally buys the Su-35 at a much cheaper price.

I think there was another issue that French agreed to reinvest 50% i.e. $5B into India while the Russian and American just wanted to do 30%. Technology transfer was also the issue with Russian and much more with Americans. Also, Indians have been crashing lots of Mig-21s and blaming it on Russian equiptment. The truth is they tend to keep birds in bad repair shapes so they will create problems.

The last issue according to one site was Indians wanted to diversify their political chips into Europe. They are doing $35B project with Russia on Pakfa, they bought $5B and more of C130 Globestars from US and also some helicopters. So West Europe is where the third chip falls.

Reading from Stratrisk.com, India need not worry about Pak any more. It is China that they might have problems. And when China is involved then 90% Pak will try to take some liberties. Btw, Stratfor.com is open for all these days i.e. no subscription required. Some good articles and forecasts for reading.

At this point there is no way the Su-35 is half price of the Rafale. If we are talking about an export bird, I would not expect the difference to be much -depends on how much the French try to squeeze out of their customers. RuAF naturally buys the Su-35 at a much cheaper price.

I would say the Rafales will cost about 150 million while the new Flankers will cost 80 million.

I still think this whole program was a waste of a decade and enormous amounts of money and Ink.

They could have said at the time we have Mirage 2000s in service and we have Mig-29s in service and we have lots of other planes like Jaguar and Mig-27. We can upgrade the Mig-29s and the Mirage 2Ks, or we can upgrade one and replace the other or we can replace both with their natural replacements.

The natural replacement for the Mig-29 is the Mig-35 and the natural replacement for the M2K is the Rafale.

Instead they wasted a decade... and upgraded their Mig-29s and replaced their M2Ks.

In buying the Rafale they are now getting a plane that costs 2 times more than their Su-30MKI when they bought them originally. They waste ten years and everything is much more expensive now.

I think there was another issue that French agreed to reinvest 50% i.e. $5B into India while the Russian and American just wanted to do 30%. Technology transfer was also the issue with Russian and much more with Americans. Also, Indians have been crashing lots of Mig-21s and blaming it on Russian equiptment. The truth is they tend to keep birds in bad repair shapes so they will create problems.

The investment levels were set in the contract AFAIK and that is perfectly normal. I rather doubt there were issues with technology transfer with the Russians and not with the French.

The problems with the Migs are often to do with buying cheap spare parts from eastern europe and later finding out they are fakes. AFAIK the Indian Mig-21s were made in India, so how can they blame Russia?

Most airforces in the world that operate Mig-21s love them because they are cheaper to run and simple to maintain.

Some East European countries give up their Mig-29s before the Mig-21s because the Mig-21 is cheaper to operate.

I think diversification was the only real reason given for dropping the Mig-35 from the race... it makes the Indian complaints that the Mig-35 didn't make it to AeroIndia in 2010 interesting... perhaps Mig were realising then they didn't have a chance...

Claiming you want diversity of suppliers is fair enough, but it is not fair enough to make a company go through the expense of running a race they were never going to be allowed to win. I think that is dishonest and very unfair.

Still this is nothing to do with the Su-34.

Some East European countries give up their Mig-29s before the Mig-21s because the Mig-21 is cheaper to operate.

[quote]

Mig-21 Bis is one mean small fighter that packs quite a few suprises.

Su-35 has been in running with South Koreans but they chose F-15S. Also in running for Brazil but they seem to be looking somewhere else also. Libya had finalized the sales but new developments took over. Venenzuela also have orders for Su-35.

I have a feeling that Su-35 will go on to become one valuable piece of jet just like Su-30 MKI became. Then choosers of Rafaels, F-35s and EF-Typhoons will surely want to look back and grin in dejection.

Technologies from Pakfa will sure come handy if they are exportable to Su-35s. Btw, US offered Indians F-35s without technology transfer if they would turn away from Pakfa. Guess with Su-35s giving F35 the run for its trillion dollar money basket with no bottom, Indians will take a wiser decision...........atleast second time around after Rafeal selection.

Mig-21 Bis is one mean small fighter that packs quite a few suprises.

If you want just a cheap little fighter then a Mig-21-98 would be an excellent cheap little fighter with helmet mounted sights and high offboresight digital RVV-MD missiles and ARH RVV-SD AAMs.

Against ground targets up to 500kg bombs can be carried which would be sufficient for most targets to combined satellite and IIR targeting in the current models you would not need many for most tasks.

The problem is that being former Warsaw Pact states most have a chip on their shoulder about Russia and the choice to replace their aircraft inventories is more to do with sucking up to the west than any performance issue.

Most are likely to end up with F-16s of some form or another, which by most criteria are no better than Mig-29s or Mig-21s.

The irony I see is that they whine and complain about 50 years under the Soviet thumb and when they get their "freedom" the first thing they do is jump into bed with the EU so instead of being dictated to by Moscow they are dictated to by Brussels.

If their animosity towards Russia really was about the cost of their freedom why did they so quickly give it up to Brussels?

Su-35 has been in running with South Koreans but they chose F-15S.

As far as I know a long time ago the Russians offered a Flanker against the F-15E to South Korea and South Korea went for the American plane. This time around the Russians withdrew the offer of the Su-35 because they clearly knew the South Koreans were always going to pick the American option and just wanted an opportunity to take an Su-35 for a spin to test it.

The problem with the Brazilian and Libyan competitions is just the same as the South Korean competition and that is the political aspect. I don't think the Russians will want to sell anything to Libya now till they know a bit more about the regime. The US and Britain and France didn't bomb the crap out of Libya and then have Gaddafi murdered in the street for fun...

I would expect quite a few technologies for the PAK FA will be tested and used in the Su-35, though whether such items are exported in the export model Su-35 would be doubtful in my opinion.

The aircraft India and Russia will develop will likely be based on the Russian T-50 but India might have requirements that change the design in several areas. For instance with full 360 degree thrust vectoring they might decide that the vertical and horizontal tail surfaces should go to reduce drag and RCS.

The Indians will almost certainly want a two seat model as standard.

I am looking forward to seeing those Migs on that new Indian carrier.

Also once Putin is back in charge I hope he rolls back Medvedevs ban on all weapon sales to Iran.

The Arab Springs have interrupted negotiations with Egypt and Libya and probably cost Russia contracts.

I would love to see Iran put in an order for 200 Su-35s to replace their F-4s and F-14s, with Iranian production in the contract so Sukhoi could deliver 20 and then the remaining 180 could be assembled in Iran just as a boost to the Iranian defence industry.

Or they could split the purchase if that is too expensive... perhaps 60 Su-35s and 150 Mig-35s to replace their F-14s and F-4s and existing Mig-29s. The Su-35s could replace both the F-14s and their Su-24s in the strike role.

They could also buy some air launched Klubs to carry on the Migs and the Flankers in the land attack and the supersonic anti ship versions...

In my opinion for IRIAF around 200 Su-30MKI would be quite enough to replace F-4, F-14 and Su-24 as two seater multirole fighter.

Or even much cheaper Su-30MKs, but I am trying to save Mig as well...

An Su-30MK with RVV-SD, RVV-MD and RVV-BD would be a very well armed interceptor.

Iran has a vested interest in anti stealth technology, as does Russia so working together both countries could benefit from the resulting hardware/knowledge.

GarryB wrote:

Mig-21 Bis is one mean small fighter that packs quite a few suprises.

If you want just a cheap little fighter then a Mig-21-98 would be an excellent cheap little fighter with helmet mounted sights and high offboresight digital RVV-MD missiles and ARH RVV-SD AAMs.

Against ground targets up to 500kg bombs can be carried which would be sufficient for most targets to combined satellite and IIR targeting in the current models you would not need many for most tasks.

The problem is that being former Warsaw Pact states most have a chip on their shoulder about Russia and the choice to replace their aircraft inventories is more to do with sucking up to the west than any performance issue.

Most are likely to end up with F-16s of some form or another, which by most criteria are no better than Mig-29s or Mig-21s.

The irony I see is that they whine and complain about 50 years under the Soviet thumb and when they get their "freedom" the first thing they do is jump into bed with the EU so instead of being dictated to by Moscow they are dictated to by Brussels.

If their animosity towards Russia really was about the cost of their freedom why did they so quickly give it up to Brussels?

Su-35 has been in running with South Koreans but they chose F-15S.

As far as I know a long time ago the Russians offered a Flanker against the F-15E to South Korea and South Korea went for the American plane. This time around the Russians withdrew the offer of the Su-35 because they clearly knew the South Koreans were always going to pick the American option and just wanted an opportunity to take an Su-35 for a spin to test it.

The problem with the Brazilian and Libyan competitions is just the same as the South Korean competition and that is the political aspect. I don't think the Russians will want to sell anything to Libya now till they know a bit more about the regime. The US and Britain and France didn't bomb the crap out of Libya and then have Gaddafi murdered in the street for fun...

I would expect quite a few technologies for the PAK FA will be tested and used in the Su-35, though whether such items are exported in the export model Su-35 would be doubtful in my opinion.

The aircraft India and Russia will develop will likely be based on the Russian T-50 but India might have requirements that change the design in several areas. For instance with full 360 degree thrust vectoring they might decide that the vertical and horizontal tail surfaces should go to reduce drag and RCS.

The Indians will almost certainly want a two seat model as standard.

I am looking forward to seeing those Migs on that new Indian carrier.

Also once Putin is back in charge I hope he rolls back Medvedevs ban on all weapon sales to Iran.

The Arab Springs have interrupted negotiations with Egypt and Libya and probably cost Russia contracts.

I would love to see Iran put in an order for 200 Su-35s to replace their F-4s and F-14s, with Iranian production in the contract so Sukhoi could deliver 20 and then the remaining 180 could be assembled in Iran just as a boost to the Iranian defence industry.

Or they could split the purchase if that is too expensive... perhaps 60 Su-35s and 150 Mig-35s to replace their F-14s and F-4s and existing Mig-29s. The Su-35s could replace both the F-14s and their Su-24s in the strike role.

They could also buy some air launched Klubs to carry on the Migs and the Flankers in the land attack and the supersonic anti ship versions...

Iran is probably the best market Russia could have after India because they intend to buy in large scale without technology transfer. The dont have the ability to reverse engineer MIG-29s or F-14s as yet so no need to worry. That stated I see no reason why not to given em technology transfer for MIG-29's (no tech transfer for Su-35E) because what would they do with it? They have alread stated they will be paying a 1 B per squadron. This in addtion to tanks, naval equipment and air defence makes Iran a really untapped export market.

Iran is probably the best market Russia could have after India because they intend to buy in large scale without technology transfer.

But Iran is not a overly rich country either and I really don't see them spending large on weapons any time soon... perhaps if they had spent a bit more in the 1990s the Russians might back them a little more but at the moment it is just potential customer orders for military and civilian nuclear power generation markets they are interested in.

Iran is not best friends with Russia, but they are not enemies either and I really don't think Russia understands the US/Israeli demonising of Iran... just because they kicked out all the western oil companies and took control themselves... which is pretty much what Russia is doing too.

Su-34 Radar.

...with red protective cover...

sepheronx wrote:Seems North Korea is interested in Su-35's. Now this is interesting since NK has experience with MiG's and not Sukhois. So Su-35's would be interesting... but how would they afford it? Not to mention fly it, as I imagine they are guzzlers in fuel. Also interesting since they have access to Chinese mil market, I would imagine the cheaper J-10 would be their choice.

http://itar-tass.com/en/world/770538

how they can buy it? Russia will not sell any weapons because of international sanctions

Cucumber Khan wrote:
Let's be honest here: Not a single Su-35 deal have been signed yet. Not one. It's pretty premature to speak about the Su-35 as some kind of export success.

There are at least two countries, if not more that wanted SU-35 but Russia abstained to buy them, because of friendly west pressure.
Iran need at least 200 SU-35, and wish to buy them. Syria wants SU-35 too. Vietnam, Malaysia, Venezuela, North Korea not only want, but wish this fighter too. I suspect Pakistan is interesting too, but Russia fears pressure from India, as Russia underwent pressures from China concerning Vietnam. The next great market must be Iran. With 200 SU-35, and 200 Mig-35 Iran could stop any western aggression. The weapon biz is at first politics.

nemrod wrote:

Cucumber Khan wrote:
Let's be honest here: Not a single Su-35 deal have been signed yet. Not one. It's pretty premature to speak about the Su-35 as some kind of export success.

There are at least two countries, if not more that wanted SU-35 but Russia abstained to buy them, because of friendly west pressure.
Iran need at least 200 SU-35, and wish to buy them. Syria wants SU-35 too. Vietnam, Malaysia, Venezuela, North Korea not only want, but wish this fighter too. I suspect Pakistan is interesting too, but Russia fears pressure from India, as Russia underwent pressures from China concerning Vietnam. The next great market must be Iran. With 200 SU-35, and 200 Mig-35 Iran could stop any western aggression. The weapon biz is at first politics.

Pakistan is out due to Indian concerns, as mentioned.

I'd imagine S. Korea would be pretty upset if Russia sold the Su-35 to the Norks, so that's out too.

Syria is in no position to buy the Su-35

Iran might, but then it might not, they seem to be set on self-reliance. If they buy anything then I suspect they'll rather go for a new interceptor aircraft such as the Su-30MK or maybe MiG-31BMs. The bells and whistles offered by the Su-35 are probably superflous to iranian requirements.

Malaysia and Venezuela are probably decent bets, why not. Add Indonesia too.

Haven't heard anything about Vietnamese interest, but even if China pressured Russia over it (and Russia has been selling to Vietnam so far with no problem); then that's OK if it means that the Chinese themselves buy the Su-35, they've already expressed interest in it as a matter of fact.

So Venezuela, Malaysia, China and Indonesia being front-runners. Possible interest from Vietnam. Maybe the Norks too, if S. Korea bows to US pressure to stop pursuing closer ties with Russia.

Overall it's not bad catch.

Russia is trying to get a T-90MS deal with Pakistan, no reason why they can't with the Su-35, and no reason for India to have a say in the matter...

sepheronx wrote:

Mike E wrote:Russia is trying to get a T-90MS deal with Pakistan, no reason why they can't with the Su-35, and no reason for India to have a say in the matter...

Are they?  Last I heard, it was Russia trying to get T-90MS to India, not Pakistan.  It was T-80's for Pakistan.

First I heard about this too, but it doesn't surprise me at all. Pakistan was very gleeful when they found out they could get Russian Weaponry. We already know about the shoddy and the lackluster tanks and other IFVs coming out of Ukraine with Iraq and their own experience with them.

I am quite sure that the Su-35 for Pakistan was some politician's mix up with the Mi-35 which Russia will be selling. Would have been interesting to see Su-35s and Su-30MKIs battle it out honestly.

Russia is supposed to ship a T-90MS or two to Pakistan, for testing. Pakistan's lone competitor right now is the Oplot-M, so this might have included some...shady deals to get a MS down there.

They already have T-80UD's, and are thinking about the Oplot-M, so going for the MS would provide a separate option for Pakistan (because Kharkiv is hardly stable).

sepheronx wrote:Do we have a links for these?

The information for that all is from the Pakistani Defense Forum, we will have to see if it is truthful.