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    Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:01 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    They are developing 100mm guided shells because those guns are most numerous currently in service on new ships

    Buyans, Steregushis and now upgraded Udalois all use 100mm guns

    Other calibers need to proliferate firs before development of new shells for them can start

    It's pretty easy to adapt the technology used in 100mm shells for 130mm or 152mm shells.
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    Post  Hole on Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:05 pm

    Or 76mm. Very Happy
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    Post  LMFS on Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:52 pm

    GarryB wrote:Indeed the splinter range of an airburst 100mm shell would be rather significant.... to the point where small drones are used you could potentially use them between drones to kill them groups at a time...

    If you get drones in swarms, you kill them in swarms...  pirat

    They can also increase the weight of the fragments and down hardened targets.

    Their 100mm naval guns have a range of something like 22km against air targets I seem to remember... I wonder if this extends that range?

    Above they say 15 km against air targets. The guided 57 mm projectile is a bit longer than the regular one, so that is less propellent, but that is just one possibility, because the 100 mm projectile is much bigger and everything should fit more easily. Actually with the amount of HE that can carry, the 15 km range, the speed of a the projectile and the fire rate, they should get many chances to re-engage the target, unless it is very fast. For a highly subsonic missile @300 m/s, 15 km means 50 seconds or time to fire more than 65 rounds... a guided projectile would need to be a really shitty one to need one tenth of that amount per target.

    Makes me want to see them put 152mm naval guns in service.... 100mm guns have HE rounds in the 16kg weight range... their 130mm guns have 33kg weight projectiles, but 152mm rounds are generally 40-45kgs... of course land based 203mm rounds are 110kgs...

    Certainly it makes it more and more attractive to increase the size of the gun, I guess the statements we heard about the Koalitsiya being adapted for naval use are not unfounded. Unlike in old times you don't need many guns on board to saturate a target and also don't need to have a huge magazine, a big guided projectile that lands on the spot or hits an air target when it is needed will more than pay off.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:39 am

    Soon russian civilian fleet = russian navy !!


    Rob Lee
    @RALee85
    ·
    1h
    Izvestia reports that the Russian Navy will test modular weapon systems and equipment that can be housed in 20 or 40-foot shipping containers. These can include cruise missiles, anti-ship missiles, Redut/Pantsir-M-type AD system, and submarine defenses.
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:39 pm

    I remember reading somewhere that the Sovremmeny Destroyers had over 1,000 130mm shells for their two gun mounts... which is a lot of fire power for a destroyer sized ship.

    100mm rounds are about 16kg HE rounds, while the 130mm guns fired shells of about 33kg.

    If they are making 152mm rounds that can reach 170km then why would you not put them on your cruisers?

    Even if they are guided 10kg rounds for hitting individual light vehicles like utes with HMGs on the back... or 25kg slimline low drag rounds...
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    Post  LMFS on Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:35 pm

    GarryB wrote:I remember reading somewhere that the Sovremmeny Destroyers had over 1,000 130mm shells for their two gun mounts... which is a lot of fire power for a destroyer sized ship.

    They could save a lot of space and weight replacing that with say 400 dumb shots + 100 smart ones, and still be way more effective. Maybe also more expensive, but the other advantages would more than compensate I think.
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    Post  Isos on Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:40 pm

    They were supposed to help during landing operations. That's why they put so many guns on them and big ones, to fire far away at ground targets during the operation which explain why so many rounds.
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    Post  JohninMK on Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:49 pm

    Looks like container based weapons, that surfaced a while back, are on the way for real


    By the end of the summer, the Russian Navy will begin testing new combat modules. We are talking about weapons systems and special equipment that are assembled inside ordinary sea containers. The latter can be installed on different types of ships and connected to onboard power and control systems. If necessary, the command can select the desired composition of modules for a combat campaign. According to experts, a set of such containers makes ships as versatile as a Swiss knife.

    Tests of the new modular systems will take place in the Northern fleet by the end of the year, sources told Izvestia in the military Department. They are placed in regular 20-and 40-foot sea containers. Those, in turn, are installed on Board different types of ships, the design of which allows it.

    The container is mounted on the deck or in the sub-deck space, connected to the ship's power supply system and integrated into a single control system. If necessary, these weapons systems can work independently, without connecting to the ship's power grids.

    Currently, several series of ships are being built for the Russian Navy, specially designed for the use of container systems. In particular, these are patrol ships of the project 22160 "Vasily Bykov", corvettes of the project 20386 "Daring", patrol icebreakers of the project 23550 "Ivan Papanin" type.

    A variety of systems can be installed in containers, depending on the tasks. For example, anti-submarine defense-sonar station and torpedo tubes. Another option is anti-ship or cruise missiles.

    If necessary, a powerful air defense system based on the Redut and Pantsir-M complexes can be installed on Board the ship in such a container. The Redut anti-aircraft missile system is being installed on new-generation ships. It includes a Poliment radar station with four phased antennas. Missiles are placed in vertical launch units consisting of modules of four or eight cells each. The range of the complex is up to 400 km. The Pantsir surface-to-air missile and gun system in land modification was repeatedly used during the fighting in Syria, and it proved to be an extremely effective means of air defense. It was used to destroy dozens of targets, including drones, balloons, rockets, gliding bombs and cruise missiles.

    In addition to combat modules, containers have also been developed to accommodate aerial drones, underwater vehicles, and a module for performing hydrographic work.

    Containers with the necessary set of weapons or equipment can be delivered by transport ship or aircraft to any area of The world's oceans, and there in a few hours to install on Board. As a result, you can quickly create an air defense area in any region of the world or monitor the activity of submarines.

    A medical container module consisting of an operating room and an intensive care unit has also been developed. It can be deployed as part of humanitarian operations near the coasts of countries affected by natural disasters.

    The concept of switching the fleet to the modular principle has been developing for years, said military historian Dmitry Boltenkov.

    - The industry has developed and started to produce ships that can hold various types of container weapons on Board. Now they need to be tested — " the expert told Izvestia. — A ship built on a modular principle is, in fact, a platform, a kind of Swiss knife. It is very important that the Navy has come to practical tests of the new system. It needs to be worked out, and this is not an easy task. For example, Denmark, which developed the container principle of using ships, failed to build a system.

    The specialist noted that the modular principle will allow you to perform tasks faster, more efficiently and cheaper.

    — The ship can be configured for a specific task that occurs at a given time, - Dmitry Boltenkov explained. — Why do you need to keep both attack and anti-submarine ships, when you can do without one? If you need shock tools-mount them. If there is a need to organize anti-submarine defense-the container and the team serving it changes. This, by the way, allows you not to keep specialists in the ship's staff who operate the contents of the container.


    https://iz.ru/1038280/roman-kretcul-aleksei-ramm/konteiner-s-pritcelom-boevye-moduli-vmf-protestiruiut-do-kontca-leta

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:53 pm

    I already posted it 3 posts before you angry but yours is better and more complete lol1 .

    Surprised by the redut missiles. Will be good for steregoutchshy ships. They could load a barge with more reduts and act as a barrier for tomahawks.
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Jul 24, 2020 3:25 pm

    They could save a lot of space and weight replacing that with say 400 dumb shots + 100 smart ones, and still be way more effective. Maybe also more expensive, but the other advantages would more than compensate I think.

    These days they could adapt those smart fuses and make them all guided rounds and therefore also much more effective too.

    They were supposed to help during landing operations. That's why they put so many guns on them and big ones, to fire far away at ground targets during the operation which explain why so many rounds.

    Yes, initially they took a Sverdlov cruiser out of retirement with its 152mm guns but the 130mm guns had better range even if the shells were lighter... and the rate of fire was much better too.

    Surprised by the redut missiles. Will be good for steregoutchshy ships. They could load a barge with more reduts and act as a barrier for tomahawks.

    Yes, Redut is interesting... especially to 400km...

    I suspect it was the INF treaty that was really holding back containerised missiles because there is no way to prove any truck or train with standard shipping containers is not carrying missiles, but without the INF treaty it does not matter any more...

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    Post  Isos on Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:17 pm

    Russia already offers naval 57mm gun for export.

    http://roe.ru/eng/catalog/naval-systems/shipborne-weapons/au-220-m/

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:50 pm

    Just to give an idea of how small a ground tor VLS is. You can compare to the heavy Udaloy Tor which is take lot of space for no reason.

    Btw this launcher could carry 16 new missiles that have better caracteristics than the ones in the picture and it could fit on any ship pretty much anywhere. Too bad they didn't use it on karakurt instead of pantsir. Tor has better Pk than Pantsir.

    It could also fit on Bykov class to make it a real corvette.

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    Post  GarryB on Wed Aug 19, 2020 2:09 am

    The problem with the naval TOR is the same as the problem for the naval S-300 Rif an Rif-M... they needed to be able to access the missiles to do tests and checks so they couldn't pack them in tight in cells. What they ended up doing for both was to have a rotary launcher with 12 or so missiles in a rotary system that positions each of the 12 missiles as needed below a specific hatch for launch. As you can imagine putting 12 missiles in a circle means you need mechanical mechanisms below deck to move the missiles round in a circle which takes up a lot of room.

    Replacing these old systems with fixed cells would make them much smaller and more compact and free up a lot of underdeck space for other things too... as you mention the old land based TOR carried 8 missiles vertically mounted in a turreted vehicle but the newer missiles are half the size so it now carries 16 missiles ready to launch which are faster and longer ranged and rather more accurate while being cheap simple command guided missiles that are very accurate.

    Traditionally TOR has been mainly used on their bigger ships... from the Udaloy destroyers to their cruisers.... Slava and Kirov class, as well as standard on the Kuznetsov CV.
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    Post  Isos on Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:25 pm

    New turret for the naval 57mm gun. It is the same gun as on Derivatsia SHORAD.

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    Post  George1 on Fri Aug 28, 2020 2:02 am

    The shipborne 12.7-mm machine-gun remote-controlled combat module "Narval" developed by NPO Elektromashina JSC (Chelyabinsk, part of the Scientific and Production Corporation Uralvagonzavod JSC) is on display at the Army-2020 International Military-Technical Forum.

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    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4126041.html

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    Post  Mindstorm on Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:23 pm

    https://vpk.name/news/443632_submarina_severnogo_flota_otstrelyalas_protivolodochnoi_raketoi.html

    Nuclear submarines in "duel" excercises employed missile-torpedo to engagé the enemy.

    This about some pasted doubts here about the integration of this fundamental anti-submarine weapon (offering enormous advantages ,in "duel" and transient remote contact, situations over enemies devoid of similar counterparts) on board Federation's submarine fleet.

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    Post  George1 on Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:24 pm

    АК-630М-2 «Duet" gun firings during Kavkaz-2020 excersize by ships of the Black Sea Fleet

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