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    Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Big_Gazza
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    Post  Big_Gazza on Mon Jul 04, 2016 1:31 pm

    chinggis wrote:What is status of 650mm torpedo's in Russian Navy? After Kursk disaster there is a rumor that they will be put out of service and after that I am not hear nothing about  that.

    The Yasen class SSN is reckoned to carry 650mm tubes, so I'd suggest that those reports are inaccurate.
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    Post  TheArmenian on Fri Sep 09, 2016 5:53 pm

    Very interesting video

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    Post  Big_Gazza on Sat Sep 10, 2016 1:51 am

    TheArmenian wrote:Very interesting video


    Yes, very interesting. I suspect the footage of hits against the target ship are likely to be Soviet-era footage? The first looked to be a Bazalt P-500 class weapon, but the later hits where clearly a slower winged missile, and I suspect these may have been a Metel/SS-N-14 Silex in AShM mode?

    Its a pity the P-500 strike wasn't a direct hit. It would have been SPECTACULAR!!

    Anyone know the identity of the target hulk?
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Sep 10, 2016 5:07 am

    Nice video... starts out with BAL launches (ie land launched Kh-35s) and then at 14 seconds on shows Onyx in its shore based version. (export Yakhont or Brahmos). Then there is the ship launch of a large missile with two large solid rocket boosters... which means Granit or Vulkan and at 45 seconds or so the very high speed missile blows past the target with what looks like a devastating hit to the ships bridge...
    Then there is a hit in the water next to the target barge by what I suspect is a bomb. Followed by several more attacks with bombs... one of which hits and one lands in the water next to the ship at about one minute 13seconds.

    I suspect the last weapons shown are glide bombs perhaps with GLONASS guidance rather than active homing weapons.
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    Post  Big_Gazza on Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:28 am

    Ahhh...  managed to (provisionally) identify the class of vessel launching the heavy AShM.  It looks to be a Pr 1234 Ovod/Nanuchka class missile-boat, and the missile is a P-120 Malakhit/SS-N-9.

    Interesting that the radar for the Osa SAM (in immediate foreground) is turned to face the superstructure, presumably to shield the radar dishes from exhaust wash from the AShM launch.
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Sep 14, 2016 11:51 am

    As subs get quieter opposing forces have to resort more and more on active sonar to find and to attack submarines.

    Having an effective coating that absorbs sound means even active homing torpedoes will have problems finding a sub and hitting it...
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    Post  Project Canada on Mon Sep 19, 2016 12:25 pm

    on other news..,

    project 941 Very Happy


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    George1
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    Post  George1 on Mon Oct 10, 2016 1:40 am

    The underwater missile "Predator"

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2170952.html
    GunshipDemocracy
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:04 pm

    Missile boats will be protected by "Pantsirs"

    mini dictionary
    Shell, carpace  = pantsir
    Brains, Brainstorming  =Mozgovyi (name of person Smile

    http://izvestia.ru/news/636773


    Main Command of the Navy has agreed a new long-distance carriers face of cruise missiles "Caliber" - small missile ships "Buyan-M" type of project 20380. They will be equipped with the latest radar station (RLS) with an active phased array (AESA). This system will be installed, along with anti-aircraft missile artillery system (SPAR) "Carapace-CM", which will provide the highest level of security vehicles.

    Latest radar made in JSC "Central Design Bureau of Apparatus" (included in the holding "Precision Systems"). Unique radar is able to detect the fraction of a second low-flying cruise missiles, unmanned aerial vehicles and surface targets and bring them a whole arsenal of anti-ship and anti-aircraft missiles and rapid-fire artillery. The first ship of the new radar will be laid in the next year.

    - Currently, the appearance of ships "Buyan-M" with the new radar agreed, - told "Izvestia" a source in the Navy, familiar with the work. - The decision was made back in the summer. In addition to the new radar will be installed on the ship antiaircraft rocket artillery system (SPAR) "Carapace-CM". Now a new radar being tested on board the boats 12443 "Lightning", which we plan to complete before the end of the year.

    The new radar is the basis of the marine version of the anti-aircraft missile and gun complexes "Carapace-CM". Compared to land analogue "Carapace-C1" Marine SPAR has increased twice the detection range and engage targets. Locator sees everything that happens on the water and air at a distance of 75 km, and anti-aircraft complex of striking targets at a distance of 40 km.

    As explained by the expert, the traditional marine radar consists of a huge rotating on the roof of the wheelhouse antenna web-sail. The new radar will be the continuation of the conning-tower superstructure with three sides which are placed flat antenna. Each of them consists of a plurality of combined into one transceiver modules, which moves in a fraction of a second electron beam scanning space. He finds in the sector of 180 degrees ship rate air and surface targets, their selectors, it brings weapons and can even work as a means of jamming.

    An expert in the field of naval arms Brainstorming Alexander told "Izvestia", the first time such a system has been implemented on the fighter T-50.

    - Since 2017 it is planned to construct and install small missile ships of Project 20380 Type "Buyan-M", as well as within the framework of the modernization, on five similar ships which are already a part of the Caspian Flotilla and the Black Sea fleet - says Brain. - These ships distinguished themselves during a massive strike by cruise missiles "Caliber" of the Black and Caspian seas LIH terrorist purposes (organization banned in Russia) in Syria. New radar and "Carapace-SM" are replaced by anti-aircraft missile system "flexible" with missiles "Igla-M", as well as basic generic detection radar station "Positive".

    According to the expert, the dignity of AESA radar is not only in speed, but also in the fact that the system is fully fit into the concept of stealth stealth becoming a part of the body.

    - This is a unique technology - said the Brain. - missile boats projects 20380 ( Me: hmmm and not Buyans? ) and 22800 are the main striking force of our Navy. Therefore, in their neutralization will be the direction of the main forces of the enemy. It is important that our ships will be the powerful air defense system that can guarantee to protect them from air and missile attack.


    is so why not add Paket torpedoes too?



    and below updated AK-176 76mm gun for 22800

    The small Russian Navy will receive sniper weapons


    http://vpk-news.ru/news/32494

    Naval Weapon Systems & Technology - Page 8 6wVwQFUZ

    Decided to equip all small missile ships and boats sverhskorostrelny 76-mm automatic gun AK-176МА accuracy thanks to the digital control and all-weather optronic system is not inferior to the sniper rifle.
    Depending on the type of vehicle that the product can be accommodated as in a conventional spherical, and stealth tower, which due to the angular forms invisible to enemy radar.

    With a weight of 10 tons the latest artillery systems are able to produce on a target located at a distance of 15 km, not less than 150 artillery shells. The main difference between AK-176МА from their predecessors — the digital control system, as well as the latest optical-electronic station "Sphere-2", allowing to detect targets at ranges of dozens of kilometers, day and night, in heavy rain and even storm.
    Read more: http://vpk-news.ru/news/32494

    GunshipDemocracy
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Wed Oct 12, 2016 2:20 pm

    George1 wrote:The underwater missile "Predator"

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2170952.html

    From text is looks like improved Shkval cavitating torpedo. I wonder if any control is added and range. It might be nice weapon for drones. just lay down on bottom 1km +, no sound, no movement, just listening. Until Ac group comes close..then salvo of 500km/h torpedos and the way cleared Smile
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Oct 13, 2016 6:34 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    George1 wrote:The underwater missile "Predator"

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2170952.html

    From text is looks like improved Shkval cavitating torpedo. I wonder if any control is added and range. It might be nice weapon for drones. just lay down on bottom 1km +,  no sound, no movement, just listening. Until Ac group comes close..then salvo of 500km/h torpedos and the way cleared Smile

    There's another article from a different source that also talks about the ABM A-235 in relation to it, which is real puzzling.

    https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=en&tl=ru&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fvpk.name%2Fnews%2F165449_podvodnaya_raketa_hishnik.html&edit-text=&act=url
    GunshipDemocracy
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:13 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    George1 wrote:The underwater missile "Predator"

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2170952.html

    From text is looks like improved Shkval cavitating torpedo. I wonder if any control is added and range. It might be nice weapon for drones. just lay down on bottom 1km +,  no sound, no movement, just listening. Until Ac group comes close..then salvo of 500km/h torpedos and the way cleared Smile

    There's another article from a different source that also talks about the ABM A-235 in relation to it, which is real puzzling.

    https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=en&tl=ru&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fvpk.name%2Fnews%2F165449_podvodnaya_raketa_hishnik.html&edit-text=&act=url

    not that bad, look below

    JSC "KB "Electropribor" (Saratov) presented the application-presentation for participation in the contest "aircraft Builder of the year" by the end of 2015, organized by the Union of aircraft manufacturers of Russia.


    In the first part of the application of JSC "KB "Electropribor"
    is created to represent the enterprise modernized management system "multi-channel missile system special purpose" (of the missile defense complex) system RTC-181М (A-235) in the framework of the ROC "Plane-M". It is reported that "since the beginning of 2015 is the serial production of the modernized systems. At the end of 2016 it is planned to conduct interdepartmental testing of the system, including field work (missile), the results of which will be held the awarding of the design documentation of the upgraded system the letter "O1".


    Later in the application it is reported that "one of the directions of scientific and technical activity of JSC "KB "Electropribor" on the implementation of the state defense order are the R & d to develop composite parts advanced underwater vehicles".


    So A-235 is referring to a first part of presentation. Second to improved Shkval.
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    Post  nastle77 on Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:18 am

    The RBU 6000 can it be used for shore bombardment and also against surface ships (I'm assuming can only be effective against merchant ships patrol boats etc) ?
    Thanks
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    Post  Guest on Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:41 am

    nastle77 wrote:The RBU 6000 can it be used for shore bombardment and also against surface ships (I'm assuming can only be effective against merchant ships patrol boats etc) ?
    Thanks

    Its not very practical to be used aganist other surface ships, no point in it.

    However yes, it can be used for shore bombardment.
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    Post  nastle77 on Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:59 pm

    Re RBU 6000
    Will it's rockets not explode if they hit surface ships or land targets ? Are they designed to explode only under water ?
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    Post  Guest on Tue Dec 13, 2016 6:54 pm

    nastle77 wrote:Re RBU 6000
    Will it's rockets not explode if they hit surface ships or land targets ? Are they designed to explode only under water ?

    They will explode its very simple arming fuse, however why would you target surface ship with it? I dont see the situations for it myself. For shore bombardment sure, it would act like mortar but why against surface ships?
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    Post  Isos on Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:15 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    nastle77 wrote:Re RBU 6000
    Will it's rockets not explode if they hit surface ships or land targets ? Are they designed to explode only under water ?

    They will explode its very simple arming fuse, however why would you target surface ship with it? I dont see the situations for it myself. For shore bombardment sure, it would act like mortar but why against surface ships?

    Why not ! if it's close to you you fire with everything you have to take advantage.
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    Post  nastle77 on Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:15 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    nastle77 wrote:Re RBU 6000
    Will it's rockets not explode if they hit surface ships or land targets ? Are they designed to explode only under water ?

    They will explode its very simple arming fuse, however why would you target surface ship with it? I dont see the situations for it myself. For shore bombardment sure, it would act like mortar but why against surface ships?
    I was thinking of very low tech warfare
    This system is carried by parchim poti petya class ships which also are the major surface combatants of smaller navies in 80s so maybe this RBU can be used as a weapon against offshore patrol vessels minseweepers coastal merchant shopping etc too esp against opponents who might not have much of a submarine fleet
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    Post  nastle77 on Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:17 pm

    Isos wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    nastle77 wrote:Re RBU 6000
    Will it's rockets not explode if they hit surface ships or land targets ? Are they designed to explode only under water ?

    They will explode its very simple arming fuse, however why would you target surface ship with it? I dont see the situations for it myself. For shore bombardment sure, it would act like mortar but why against surface ships?

    Why not !  if it's close to you you fire with everything you have  to take advantage.
    Exactly was thinking of low tech littoral warfare involving small ships that routinely carried this system but didn't have submarine opponents and might end up fighting other smaller surface combatents
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    Post  miroslav on Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:36 pm

    nastle77 wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    nastle77 wrote:Re RBU 6000
    Will it's rockets not explode if they hit surface ships or land targets ? Are they designed to explode only under water ?

    They will explode its very simple arming fuse, however why would you target surface ship with it? I dont see the situations for it myself. For shore bombardment sure, it would act like mortar but why against surface ships?

    Why not !  if it's close to you you fire with everything you have  to take advantage.
    Exactly was thinking of low tech littoral warfare involving small ships that routinely carried this system but didn't have submarine opponents and might end up fighting other smaller surface combatents  

    Theoretically this is all possible, but the system is not designed for it at all. This is essentially an area target weapon not a point target one. If you want to engage surface targets (sea or land) there are far, far more effective weapons like the main gun, as some one mentioned before, most ships equipped with RBU-600 will have at least a 57mm universal gun. Using an RBU-6000 up an close against an enemy ship is well, 19 century style.

    As far ass the fuse goes, its a dual one, it can be activates by contact and set to detonate at a certain depth, the minimal difference in depth that the grenades are set to is 5m. So a volley of 12 grenades will cover the dept from, for instance, 50 to 105 with detonations at every 5m, roughly. The fuse can be set manually or automatically, meaning, as an example: first three at 50, 70 and 80, second three at 100 120 140 and so on.

    The new versions of the grenades, like the ones on Adm. Girgorovic and I supose on the Udaloy class, have an active seeker head, basically a small sonar, the warhead is smaller (shaped charge for point contact) but that is a small drawback compare to the gains of having an active seeker head.
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    Post  nastle77 on Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:55 pm

    miroslav wrote:
    nastle77 wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    nastle77 wrote:Re RBU 6000
    Will it's rockets not explode if they hit surface ships or land targets ? Are they designed to explode only under water ?

    They will explode its very simple arming fuse, however why would you target surface ship with it? I dont see the situations for it myself. For shore bombardment sure, it would act like mortar but why against surface ships?

    Why not !  if it's close to you you fire with everything you have  to take advantage.
    Exactly was thinking of low tech littoral warfare involving small ships that routinely carried this system but didn't have submarine opponents and might end up fighting other smaller surface combatents  

    Theoretically this is all possible, but the system is not designed for it at all. This is essentially an area target weapon not a point target one. If you want to engage surface targets (sea or land) there are far, far more effective weapons like the main gun, as some one mentioned before, most ships equipped with RBU-600 will have at least a 57mm universal gun. Using an RBU-6000 up an close against an enemy ship is well, 19 century style.

    As far ass the fuse goes, its a dual one, it can be activates by contact and set to detonate at a certain depth, the minimal difference in depth that the grenades are set to is 5m. So a volley of 12 grenades will cover the dept from, for instance,  50 to 105 with detonations at every 5m, roughly. The fuse can be set manually or automatically, meaning, as an example: first three at 50, 70 and 80, second three at 100 120 140 and so on.

    The new versions of the grenades, like the ones on Adm. Girgorovic and I supose on the Udaloy class, have an active seeker head, basically a small sonar, the warhead is smaller (shaped charge for point contact) but that is a small drawback compare to the gains of having an active seeker head.

    Thanks for the explanation but if you look at some of the low-intensity conflict in third world countries until 80s they are kind of like 19 century.... most of the opponents are small combatants with few having capabilities of sophisticated antiship missiles and even then they only carry 2 to 4 missiles which when expended makes these small craft very vulnerable even to basic weapon systems esp since  most of their battles are in the littorals

    I get your point that it's an area defense weapon not a point defense weapon I assume you mean it cannot be aimed very well against surface ships and that's why maybe it is useful against static targets during shore bombardment
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    Post  miroslav on Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:10 pm

    nastle77 wrote:
    miroslav wrote:
    nastle77 wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    nastle77 wrote:Re RBU 6000
    Will it's rockets not explode if they hit surface ships or land targets ? Are they designed to explode only under water ?

    They will explode its very simple arming fuse, however why would you target surface ship with it? I dont see the situations for it myself. For shore bombardment sure, it would act like mortar but why against surface ships?

    Why not !  if it's close to you you fire with everything you have  to take advantage.
    Exactly was thinking of low tech littoral warfare involving small ships that routinely carried this system but didn't have submarine opponents and might end up fighting other smaller surface combatents  

    Theoretically this is all possible, but the system is not designed for it at all. This is essentially an area target weapon not a point target one. If you want to engage surface targets (sea or land) there are far, far more effective weapons like the main gun, as some one mentioned before, most ships equipped with RBU-600 will have at least a 57mm universal gun. Using an RBU-6000 up an close against an enemy ship is well, 19 century style.

    As far ass the fuse goes, its a dual one, it can be activates by contact and set to detonate at a certain depth, the minimal difference in depth that the grenades are set to is 5m. So a volley of 12 grenades will cover the dept from, for instance,  50 to 105 with detonations at every 5m, roughly. The fuse can be set manually or automatically, meaning, as an example: first three at 50, 70 and 80, second three at 100 120 140 and so on.

    The new versions of the grenades, like the ones on Adm. Girgorovic and I supose on the Udaloy class, have an active seeker head, basically a small sonar, the warhead is smaller (shaped charge for point contact) but that is a small drawback compare to the gains of having an active seeker head.

    Thanks for the explanation but if you look at some of the low-intensity conflict in third world countries until 80s they are kind of like 19 century.... most of the opponents are small combatants with few having capabilities of sophisticated antiship missiles and even then they only carry 2 to 4 missiles which when expended makes these small craft very vulnerable even to basic weapon systems esp since  most of their battles are in the littorals


    Dont get mo wrong I like the idea of a close up an dirty fight with ships, guns, speed and maneuvering.

    Here is the RBU-6000 one the Talwar's, same set up on the Adm. Grigorovic I presume, probably a better sonar and overall fire control, start at 3:56, it has 90R grenades as part of a standard load, active seeking ones, and 48 of them as a total combat load, including the standard RGB60 ones, they mainly use the RGB60 for mines and torpedoes and keep the 90R for submarines. Wikipedia says that the Indian ones (RGB60) have a range of only 1500m, very down graded.

    This sort of indicates that a ship like the Adm. Grigorovic has solid ASW capabilities, all included.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkpjbdP6CHo
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    Post  miroslav on Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:20 pm

    miroslav wrote:
    nastle77 wrote:
    miroslav wrote:
    nastle77 wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    nastle77 wrote:Re RBU 6000
    Will it's rockets not explode if they hit surface ships or land targets ? Are they designed to explode only under water ?

    They will explode its very simple arming fuse, however why would you target surface ship with it? I dont see the situations for it myself. For shore bombardment sure, it would act like mortar but why against surface ships?

    Why not !  if it's close to you you fire with everything you have  to take advantage.
    Exactly was thinking of low tech littoral warfare involving small ships that routinely carried this system but didn't have submarine opponents and might end up fighting other smaller surface combatents  

    Theoretically this is all possible, but the system is not designed for it at all. This is essentially an area target weapon not a point target one. If you want to engage surface targets (sea or land) there are far, far more effective weapons like the main gun, as some one mentioned before, most ships equipped with RBU-600 will have at least a 57mm universal gun. Using an RBU-6000 up an close against an enemy ship is well, 19 century style.

    As far ass the fuse goes, its a dual one, it can be activates by contact and set to detonate at a certain depth, the minimal difference in depth that the grenades are set to is 5m. So a volley of 12 grenades will cover the dept from, for instance,  50 to 105 with detonations at every 5m, roughly. The fuse can be set manually or automatically, meaning, as an example: first three at 50, 70 and 80, second three at 100 120 140 and so on.

    The new versions of the grenades, like the ones on Adm. Girgorovic and I supose on the Udaloy class, have an active seeker head, basically a small sonar, the warhead is smaller (shaped charge for point contact) but that is a small drawback compare to the gains of having an active seeker head.

    Thanks for the explanation but if you look at some of the low-intensity conflict in third world countries until 80s they are kind of like 19 century.... most of the opponents are small combatants with few having capabilities of sophisticated antiship missiles and even then they only carry 2 to 4 missiles which when expended makes these small craft very vulnerable even to basic weapon systems esp since  most of their battles are in the littorals


    Dont get mo wrong I like the idea of a close up an dirty fight with ships, guns, speed and maneuvering.

    Here is the RBU-6000 one the Talwar's, same set up on the Adm. Grigorovic I presume, probably a better sonar and overall fire control, start at 3:56, it has 90R grenades as part of a standard load, active seeking ones, and 48 of them as a total combat load, including the standard RGB60 ones, they mainly use the RGB60 for mines and torpedoes and keep the 90R for submarines. Wikipedia says that the Indian ones (RGB60) have a range of only 1500m, very down graded.

    This sort of indicates that a ship like the Adm. Grigorovic has solid ASW capabilities, all included.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkpjbdP6CHo

    This is better, and I am suppose to be working as a programmer.

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    Post  nastle77 on Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:04 pm

    Thanks
    I wonder why western navies did not retain similar weapons ?
    GarryB
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    Naval Weapon Systems & Technology - Page 8 Empty Re: Naval Weapon Systems & Technology

    Post  GarryB on Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:35 am

    Re RBU 6000
    Will it's rockets not explode if they hit surface ships or land targets ? Are they designed to explode only under water ?

    You talk about the system like it has only one type of rocket.

    The anti sub rockets are guided and will use sonar to actively home in on a submarine.

    The mine rockets will float in the water and if anything comes close or touches them they will explode.

    the anti diver models will detonate at a preset depth and can also be used against subs.

    And the decoy rockets make sounds and move away from the area to distract subs or torpedoes.

    I would say most of the exploding models have an impact fuse as well as a depth fuse or proximity fuse.

    Why not ! if it's close to you you fire with everything you have to take advantage.

    Because the RPK-8 anti submarine weapon is not cheap and only has a range of about 4.3km... at that range a burst of 30mm cannon shells would probably be more effective.

    Any medium gun would be vastly more accurate and more effective too.

    I was thinking of very low tech warfare
    This system is carried by parchim poti petya class ships which also are the major surface combatants of smaller navies in 80s so maybe this RBU can be used as a weapon against offshore patrol vessels minseweepers coastal merchant shopping etc too esp against opponents who might not have much of a submarine fleet

    The mine rockets would be useful to lay in the path of an incoming small boat or torpedo and would also be useful against enemy divers.

    A medium gun like a 57mm or 76mm gun would be vastly more useful most of the time.

    RPGs and even ATGMs on board could easily also be more useful too.

    Thanks
    I wonder why western navies did not retain similar weapons ?

    No profit in cheap and simple...

    Torpedoes are used against enemy subs now... mostly mini torpedoes of small calibre.

    Of course in the US Navy they had ASROC and SUBROC and there was a replacement but it got cancelled because the chance of detecting a Russian sub at 50km was becoming almost impossible... so it was quietly dropped... I believe it was called Sea Lance or something...

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