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    NATO/US Military Build up in Eastern Europe-Russian borders

    Hole
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    Post  Hole Fri May 07, 2021 9:37 pm

    Because NATO is not there to defend NATO, at least for the last 30 years. It is a imperial tool to attack small countries. Or blackmail them into "joining" NATO.
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    Post  GarryB Sat May 08, 2021 8:02 am

    HATO is a tool the US uses to get Europe to fear and hate Russia and China, and also to add cannon fodder to its little exploits at regime change in Europe and further afield.
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    Post  JohninMK Sat May 22, 2021 12:32 pm

    Rob Lee
    @RALee85
    ·
    2h
    Poland confirms that it has purchased 4 Turkish Bayraktar TB2 systems for a total of 24 UCAVs (each ground control system comes with 6 UCAVs) with the first to be delivered next year.

    Ministerstwo Obrony Narodowej Flag of Poland
    @MON_GOV_PL
    · 3h
    Min. @mblaszczak: Wynegocjowaliśmy umowę na zakup 4 zestawów, czyli 24 statków powietrznych uzbrojonych w rakiety przeciwpancerne. Pierwszy zestaw trafi na wyposażenie #WojskoPolskie już za rok. #Bayraktar
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    Post  ahmedfire Sat May 22, 2021 10:49 pm

    So Canada lifted the embargo to export it's engines to the Turkish UAVs ?

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    Post  JohninMK Sat May 22, 2021 10:55 pm

    ahmedfire wrote:So Canada lifted the embargo to export it's engines to the Turkish UAVs ?

    Well they are going to a peaceful NATO country Laughing
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    Post  franco Sat May 22, 2021 11:47 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    ahmedfire wrote:So Canada lifted the embargo to export it's engines to the Turkish UAVs ?

    Well they are going to a peaceful NATO country Laughing

    Believe they are using Ukrainian built engines now. Hence all the buddy buddy stuff lately.
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    Post  George1 Wed Jun 02, 2021 2:58 pm

    Russian Defense Ministry Statement on Planned Exercise Sea Breeze 2021



    “Against the backdrop of incessant accusations from Western countries that Russia is allegedly building up its military potential in the southwestern borders, the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense and the joint command of the US Armed Forces in the European zone, with the involvement of NATO countries, are planning to conduct a joint exercise Sea Breeze ".

    Its main participants are Ukraine, USA, Canada, Great Britain, Netherlands, Romania, Bulgaria, Greece, Turkey, Latvia and partner countries.

    This exercise will involve about 4 thousand military personnel, 40 warships, boats and auxiliary vessels, 30 units of aviation equipment and more than 100 units of cars and armored vehicles.

    I would like to especially note that according to the scenario of the exercise, the coalition group of forces will be involved in "stabilizing the crisis situation" caused by the activities of some "illegal" for Ukraine "armed formations", which "the authorities of the neighboring state provide comprehensive support."

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    Post  George1 Fri Jun 25, 2021 10:42 pm

    US plans to deploy weapons in Poland aimed at disrupting stability — Russian diplomat

    As was reported earlier, the Pentagon has started deploying components of the land-based Aegis Ashore ballistic missile defense system near the Polish community of Redzikowo

    MOSCOW, June 24. /TASS/. Russia is concerned over the US plans to deploy ballistic missile defense systems in Poland as these steps are aimed at disrupting strategic stability, Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Alexander Grushko said on Thursday.

    "This is a subject of our constant concern. We have long been aware of these deployment plans. We view them as the steps aimed at disrupting strategic stability," the senior Russian diplomat stressed.

    NATO has repeatedly assured Moscow that the efforts being taken within the alliance are intended to "ward off the so-called missile threat from Iran," Grushko said. "Even the latest statement adopted at the summit in Brussels also says that this potential is unable to affect the Russian strategic forces," he added.

    "Nonetheless, in our estimates, these two facilities in Poland and Romania together with other weapon systems and the seaborne component that the Americans have deployed at the Rota base in Spain are capable of intercepting the corresponding missiles. Let me stress again that this cannot but cause our concern," Grushko added.

    Also, no limitations exist for technology development, and these systems may eventually acquire quite a different quality compared to today’s potential, the high-ranking Russian diplomat went on to say. "When we speak about a new equation of strategic stability, this element will be taken into account in our position," the deputy foreign minister said.

    As was reported earlier, the Pentagon has started deploying components of the land-based Aegis Ashore ballistic missile defense system near the Polish community of Redzikowo, without waiting for the completion of all the construction works on the site.

    https://tass.com/world/1306845
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    Post  ahmedfire Fri Jun 25, 2021 11:10 pm

    Iskander is enough to neutralize such systems .

    The only losers here will be those central Europe countries like Poland and Romania for being attacked by Russia .

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    Post  GarryB Sat Jun 26, 2021 10:53 am

    That of course is the key, Russia needs to make clear that it will now have nuclear armed missiles of a variety of types aimed at those facilities and US bases nearby as a safety measure for Russia...


    Russia should make it clear that they will develop and deploy a range of IRBMs able to hit these targets and all of the rest of the European territory incase other systems are installed that will not be included in the new START treaty because they are not strategic weapons.

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    Post  Airbornewolf Sun Aug 29, 2021 3:38 am

    Regarding the whole nuclear weapons topic:

    Do not forget that Russia always keeps intercontinental weapons mobile.

    Remember these?.

    NATO/US Military Build up in Eastern Europe-Russian borders - Page 12 Captur26

    NATO/US Military Build up in Eastern Europe-Russian borders - Page 12 Rt-23_10

    At the risk of that anyone is getting sick of my own personal experiences.

    Here is another one:

    I went on vacation to the U.S back in 2010.
    I visited the titan missile museum in Arizona.

    NATO/US Military Build up in Eastern Europe-Russian borders - Page 12 Captur28

    The tour itself was under guidance. you stop at certain points and get an explanation.
    the volunteers doing it try their best ,but they dont know the specifics.

    NATO/US Military Build up in Eastern Europe-Russian borders - Page 12 Titan10

    I was the only european, amongst an full american tourist group.
    At the end of the tour, you are in the missile command center.

    There is an launch-simulation run, they pick an random person out of the group to do an sim-run.
    They explain during the process, you do not know you are firing on.
    The computer reads the launch-command from the President. the encrypted command correlates to an pre-established target in the Missile's computer.
    You never know what you are firing at.

    NATO/US Military Build up in Eastern Europe-Russian borders - Page 12 Titan310

    Of course, all strategic target's are either city's. or have city's nearby.

    The tour was asked who had trouble executing an command to launch.
    No one, raised their hand but me.

    I pretty much was looked at by the others like i just commited treason.

    the tour-guide asked why not?. He was actually seemingly quite happy i put up my hand.
    I talk of course with my nation's accent in english, everyone knew i was not an American.

    I explained that i believed it was pointless to turn that launch key.
    Missiles from the opposing side are already on the way, me launching does not change the outcome.
    Also, I am not in the business of condemning thousands of people to nuclear fire and radiation.
    That you are gauranteed to hit city's, in order to hit large millitary bases nearby or strategic manufacturing capability.

    i mentioned the symptoms of radiation poisoning,
    I began saying it's pretty much your body and cells undergoing liquifaction.
    Fever, Diarrea, vommiting blood, hair loss, cancer, etcetera.
    And that you can not escape from this, if radiation does not kill you in the first week, it will in a month, year, or decade.

    And i closed off i was pretty pissed off how the hole bunch of americans did not hesitate to throw an Multi-megaton warhead on where i lived a few hundred miles away from.

    My point is here,...Taken my experience from this visit to the Titan Museum, and also in another experience to my visit to the pima Air Museum.
    The majority of the U.S population has no issue to turn an key and initiate the Apocalypse.

    To them, we. as Europe as a whole is across the ocean for them.
    An another world, not relevant.

    If the roles where reversed, i would not Nuke the U.S either. As much as i hate their foreign policy.
    Nuclear Weapons, are an deterrence.
    in my opinion, no-one should ever use them.

    Using them is opening up Pandora's Box.
    You lower the treshold for others to use them.
    they will turn territorys irradiated and unusable for decades to come.
    Generations will grow up with birth defects and negative mutations.

    Anybody seen the kids born today in Vietnam after Agent Orange?.
    i will not post them here, as they are nightmare-fuel.
    Then i choose occupation personally, i can not subject people to this.

    you just can never stop thinking yourself as an individual about the consequences.


    Last edited by Airbornewolf on Sun Aug 29, 2021 2:44 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  GarryB Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:15 am

    I think the best thing all round would be to develop special bunker busting nukes designed to dig down to bunker level and explode but contain the contamination to the bunker... and then fake a nuclear war and get all the top pro war nutters keen for a scrap because their bones tell them their natural superiority and ability to win will mean they will win this too... and without a scratch... and put them in a nice deep bunker... from every country these people come from...

    Solve a lot of problems going forward...
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    Post  George1 Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:23 am

    Russian means of airspace control over the neutral waters of the Black Sea detected air targets approaching the State Border of the Russian Federation.

    To identify air targets and prevent violation of the State Border of the Russian Federation, two Su-30 fighters from the duty forces of naval aviation and air defense of the Black Sea Fleet were taken into the air.

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    Post  George1 Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:37 pm

    President Putin has been speaking about potential NATO expansion in Ukraine, saying it was a red line he hoped would not be crossed. He also expressed concerns over military drills being held near Russia's borders.

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    PhSt
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    NATO/US Military Build up in Eastern Europe-Russian borders - Page 12 Empty not sure if this is actually a good idea. NATO might see this as a sign of weakness and continue with more provocations

    Post  PhSt Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:31 pm



    not sure if this is actually a good idea. NATO might see this as a sign of weakness and continue with more provocations



    Putin calls on NATO to do a deal

    Russian President Vladimir Putin has said he will request talks with NATO to ensure that the US-led military bloc does not creep closer to his country's borders, as Ukraine moves to allow Western troops into the country.

    Speaking to a group of newly-arrived ambassadors in the Kremlin on Wednesday, Putin said that his country will “insist on guarantees being set out to exclude the possibility of NATO moving any further to the east, and deploying threatening weapons close to Russian territory.”

    “I would like to emphasize that we need these to be legal guarantees,” the Russian president said, “given that our Western colleagues have not fulfilled their respective oral obligations. Everyone knows they made promises they wouldn't expand eastwards, but then they did the opposite. Legitimate Russian security concerns have been ignored and continue to be ignored.”

    Putin insisted that “the threat at our Western borders is really growing, and we have repeatedly talked about it. It is enough to see how close NATO’s military infrastructure has advanced to the Russian borders. It's more than serious for us.”

    https://www.rt.com/russia/541858-putin-demands-nato-deal/
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    Post  nomadski Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:19 pm




    Where would we prefer NATO troops to concentrate in Europe ? If they have to do inevitably from time to time ?  The English countryside ? Keep your friends close , but your enemies closer ! Russia is the gatekeeper of Asia , the vanguard facing the barbaric western European horde ! An accident of geography , can not be helped by wishful thinking ! Still NATO is not Hitler or Napoleon . They will soon fall out over the cost of the venture ! LOL ....

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    Post  GarryB Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:24 am

    not sure if this is actually a good idea. NATO might see this as a sign of weakness and continue with more provocations

    HATO are clearly desperate, talking about moving nukes from Germany and moving them around the Baltic states and eastern europe is like the Soviet Union sending nukes to Cuba... they are scared and they don't know what else to do...

    They have cut off communications so they can't just ask to talk about things they are scared of, so they have to act out to get Russia to reach out to save their face because they can say that Russia blinked first.

    I doubt Putin cares who blinks first and is more interested in avoiding stupid escalations that could easily get out of control and lead to serious conflict.
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    Post  Airbornewolf Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:16 pm

    PhSt wrote:

    not sure if this is actually a good idea. NATO might see this as a sign  of weakness and continue with more provocations



    Putin calls on NATO to do a deal

    Russian President Vladimir Putin has said he will request talks with NATO to ensure that the US-led military bloc does not creep closer to his country's borders, as Ukraine moves to allow Western troops into the country.

    Speaking to a group of newly-arrived ambassadors in the Kremlin on Wednesday, Putin said that his country will “insist on guarantees being set out to exclude the possibility of NATO moving any further to the east, and deploying threatening weapons close to Russian territory.”

    “I would like to emphasize that we need these to be legal guarantees,” the Russian president said, “given that our Western colleagues have not fulfilled their respective oral obligations. Everyone knows they made promises they wouldn't expand eastwards, but then they did the opposite. Legitimate Russian security concerns have been ignored and continue to be ignored.”

    Putin insisted that “the threat at our Western borders is really growing, and we have repeatedly talked about it. It is enough to see how close NATO’s military infrastructure has advanced to the Russian borders. It's more than serious for us.”

    https://www.rt.com/russia/541858-putin-demands-nato-deal/

    Putin is just following the saying "young men make war, old men make peace".
    Trying to follow trough on every path that does not result in conflict.

    NATO is just a pain in the ass for Russia.
    It is an toothless, warmongering organisation staffed with people that had no carreer in politics in their own country.
    So welcome to the collection of nobody's that picked up a stick to go poke Russia and China to create some situation to stay relevant.

    Troops in the EU are more likely to to turn their weapons on their american allies than on russia.
    I spend many hours in the bars on trainings across europe.
    France, Belgium, Germany, Denmark we also had frank discussions with Slovak and Tzech troops to illustrate what NATO really is about.
    Subjugation of any nation that opposes the U.S, and how we as NATO members are simply to be used and sacrificed on their behalf.

    It took us/europe about 30 years to rebuild, we will not destroy everything again because this nation on the other side of the globe declared itself the police of the world.
    The Marshall plan?. Europe paid it back a few times over by participating in the illegal wars around the world on behalf of its lord and master.
    We lay'd waste to nation's infrastructure that will never recover.

    It is easy to destroy, but to create takes sweat,blood and many years of hard labor.
    Not to mention the lives, resources and money that is wasted in the process of war.

    I would personally too exhaust every other posibility before commiting to large-scale millitary action.
    Halting escalation is difficult, and down the path of Escalation. Nuclear exchange looms just around the corner.

    Nato is an fucking monkey playing with an loaded gun, staring down the barrel.

    Russia is not the problem in Europe, American troops and politics in Europe is a problem.


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    Post  GarryB Wed Dec 08, 2021 6:22 am

    I think Putin knows this... remember recently he has said, though I am not sure the west was listening, that if there is an attack in Europe... Say the west creates a provocation and tries to take Kaliningrad or Crimea that Russias new missiles like Zircon could reach US targets like the Pentagon or HQs in Brussels in less than 10 minutes.... in other words you **** around with Russia and it is not going to be something happening thousands of kms away... we are not just going to stop the attack, but we are also going to defend ourselves by destroying the brains that came up with that stupid plan... whether they are in Brussels or the continental US of A, so don't think you can plot this sort of shit and just walk away when your proxy forces get consumed... like in Syria or Libya or Afghanistan or Iraq or Venezuela... you **** with us and there will be consequences for YOU.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:53 pm

    An alternative view: The Kremlin is escalating the situation and announces an ultimatum to the US and NATO

    For those who need translation, use CC & tool buttons.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Sun Dec 19, 2021 3:28 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:An alternative view: The Kremlin is escalating the situation and announces an ultimatum to the US and NATO

    For those who need translation, use CC & tool buttons.

    isn't he Ukraine's paid propagandist? Talking about NATO - tell me better why NATO (i.e.US without which no decision takes place) moves closer and closer to Russia and wants to build bases in Ukraine and Georgia?

    I remind you that missiles in Cuba somehow were treated seriously by US govt. Should it be OK form their side?
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:51 am

    I don't think he needs any $ from Kiev.
    The US uses NATO & other blocs they create to follow Brzezinski's & Mackinder's dictums on controlling Eurasia. Nature doesn't tolerate vacuum & it was natural for NATO to fill the void in E. Europe after certain events in 1991.
    The task was made easier by all those former Eastern Bloc members asking to join.
    BTW, Russia too wanted to join & floated the idea, but was not allowed to.
    Now even neutral Sweden & Finland r NATO partners, as they feel threatened (justifiably or not) & act to shore up their security.
    Recall that the former fought Russia a few times & the latter also fought the USSR in 1938-39 & 1941-44, loosing Karelia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Finland#Finland_in_the_Second_World_War
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    Post  flamming_python Sun Dec 19, 2021 7:40 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:I don't think he needs any $ from Kiev.
    The US uses NATO & other blocs they create to follow Brzezinski's & Mackinder's dictums on controlling Eurasia. Nature doesn't tolerate vacuum & it was natural for NATO to fill the void in E. Europe after certain events in 1991.
    The task was made easier by all those former Eastern Bloc members asking to join.

    After revolutions/coups in 1989-1991 throughout the Eastern Bloc countries that installed budding oligarch elites bent on privatization.
    And sure, they all asked to join NATO. That was part of the deal

    BTW, Russia too wanted to join & floated the idea, but was not allowed to.
    Now even neutral Sweden & Finland r NATO partners, as they feel threatened (justifiably or not) & act to shore up their security.

    Did Sweden and Finland also feel threatened by Libya?

    They both took part in some capacity in the 2011 intervention there, forget the details

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    Post  Hole Sun Dec 19, 2021 12:17 pm

    The deal was you can join the EU but first you have to join NATO.

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    Post  GarryB Sun Dec 19, 2021 12:23 pm

    The Kremlin is not escalating the situation, it is HATO that is doing that by arming Kiev and making promises of some time in the future joining HATO.

    Russia should declare they recognise the Donbass as an independent state and set up a no fly zone over them using S-400 batteries and open their border for trade with this brand new country.

    The deal was you can join the EU but first you have to join NATO.

    Yeah, help us steal from small weak countries and you can eventually join our club... we need plumbers and street sweepers...


    Of course if they are not careful they wont have any gas so those factories will start closing...

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