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    PLA Air Force General News Thread:

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:14 am

    Chinese just want to take US place. They will be the same crazy assholes as US are today. They are led by their appetite for money.

    That is what the US wants the world to think... everyone basically wants to be the US, but anyone else being the US (ie leader of the world, sole super power, world police force) would be much much worse than the US currently is so it is in everyones interests to help the US beat down any and all rivals to make sure the US stays on top and all powerful... part of their game is to use other factions to beat down on its main rivals to damage both essentially... so they are happy to involve India and the EU in this little conflict against China, because they know it will damage every party and want to be able to use other countries and groups of countries as cannon fodder to limit its own exposure to damage.

    The Chinese in charge were not US or British educated, just like Putin is not so they simply don't think in colonial terms of we are better than them and those savages need someone to lead and me by my pale skin colour was destined by god... who is also a white european... to lead them... making my own country great and leading to them continuing on in third world poverty because being savages that is the best the could hope for...

    The concept of China and Russia and the other BRICS countries was for a multipolar world where no one country dominated everything and made all the decisions in favour of their own companies and citizens... if the EU wasn't such a bitch of America they might realise they could be a pole but they need to sort their shit out... this appointing people to positions of power and making rules that apply to all EU states with no consultation is clearly not working and if they double down and insist on continuing in that direction then they are going to have to accept more exits....

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:32 am

    China doesn't care about multipolar world or politics. They don't give a **** about those country that were invaded by the US neither do they give a **** about even communist countries like Cuba or Vebezuela.

    Their main focus is about making money and make other nations use their stuff so that they control everything.

    That's how they will expend their influence and take over the world. That's real politik.

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    Sujoy
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    Post  Sujoy Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:22 pm

    Isos wrote:China doesn't care about multipolar world or politics. They don't give a **** about those country that were invaded by the US neither do they give a **** about even communist countries like Cuba or Vebezuela.

    Their main focus is about making money and make other nations use their stuff so that they control everything.

    That's how they will expend their influence and take over the world. That's real politik.
    China and the U.S, especially the Dems are allies. Their idea of the New World Order is to create G-2 states around the world.

    A G-2 State is one that is tied to a US-led Security Architecture via foundational agreements on the one hand and tied to China's economic web on the other via omnibus agreements.

    The US-China G-2 pincer on India is for all to see now. 'Our friend' Trump was busy squeezing India's leading export sector (I.T) while China is applying border pressure. The 'China Strong' narrative is also being propagated by US analysts who want India to 'sign-up' as an US ally so that G-2 becomes a reality.

    Important interview with Kissinger. Admits detente was used to kill the Soviets. Hints of G-2 with China.

    https://nationalinterest.org/feature/the-interview-henry-kissinger-13615?nopaging=1

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:27 pm

    China and the U.S, especially the Dems are allies. Their idea of the New World Order is to create G-2 states around the world.

    Not really 1st and 2nd never work togather. China wants to eat US. Don't you see they try to compete on any level with them and surpass them ? If they manage to do so US will keep weakening and once China removes the dollar from world trading system, US will collapse and start a civil war.

    Important interview with Kissinger. Admits detente was used to kill the Soviets.

    They admit lot of stuff after it happens to look powerful. Just another lie that aims at rewriting the history.

    They were just afraid of USSR military power and had to calm down the game. Corruption and fake communism is what destroyed USSR, nothing else.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:59 am

    China doesn't care about multipolar world or politics.

    Of course China cares about a multipolar world... it intends to be one of those poles... or do you think they like being a little cog in a machine controlled and run on the whim of the US?

    They have no interest in remaking the world in their own image like the US does, they don't want a communist revolution for every country till we are all communist controlled pawns of China... Ironically that is Americas dream for the world to be made up of broken war torn shit holes that they can control with money and sanctions...

    They don't give a **** about those country that were invaded by the US neither do they give a **** about even communist countries like Cuba or Vebezuela.

    They don't want to save countries by converting them into Chinese communist states like them, but they do want to be left alone by other countries trying to assimilate them, and they do want open and free and fair trade and they are not afraid of other countries developing and growing from that trade to improve their situation.

    The US, and the European West is a leech that relies on their colonial subjects... their inferiors... just allowing the leech to feed till it is full and then letting it fall back to where it came from without a fight. The US would be happy with a McDonalds in every city and a civil war going on in every country... they can earn money destroying and rebuilding... a win win for them.... and the resources of the country are extracted to pay for it all...

    Their main focus is about making money and make other nations use their stuff so that they control everything.

    That's how they will expend their influence and take over the world. That's real politik.

    But the fear in the west is that Russia and China are not colonial powers and they might offer the third world a deal that helps the third world sort out problems and issues that lead to them developing and progressing and actually becoming wealthy and developing a standard of living that could approach that of the west...

    There is a documentary on RT about black american people moving to Ghana... I think... because the standard of living is improving and there is no racism for black people living there... because they are all black. Equally I have read articles about Americans moving to Asian countries like Thailand and Vietnam because living is cheap... many Vietnam Vets have learned the language and culture, and their pensions give them an excellent standard of living compared with the local average wage... and the obvious... health care is affordable or free depending on the country...

    The west thinks it is so wonderful, but anyone can make a hollywood movie or produce the stuff they produce... in fact right now most of the stuff the west produces is actually manufactured in China or other countries anyway... skin colour has nothing to do with it.

    You take a new born baby from a Pygmy family in New Guinea and give them to a US family to bring up and educate and that kid could be as smart as any of their school mates and neighbours and apart from looking different they could be fluent American and fit in with that society... which suggests the difference between some poor kid in the third world in abject poverty scavanging the local rubbish tip for plastic to recycle for money and some little white kid destined to go to Oxford and have exceptionally bad hair and eventually be Prime minister of Britain is not as much as you might think... In fact I think in terms of life skills I know which I would vote for to run a country...

    China and the U.S, especially the Dems are allies.

    They were both interested in getting Trump out, but they are not friends... Americans have no friends... only interests... don't you listen to them... they admit it themselves repeatedly?

    Their idea of the New World Order is to create G-2 states around the world.

    There is only G1... America.... everything else is window dressing... in a G7 it is the US and 6 countries to bitch and moan how they would have gotten away with everything if it wasn't for those meddling kids (the meddling kids being Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, Syria, Venezuela, or any other country that is not bending to their will at the time)...

    The G8 is the G7 but with Russia there to hear their complaints... no solutions expected... they can just listen to us vent our spleen about how much trouble they are.

    The G20 is meaningless because they don't do as they are told like the G7 does so the US loses control of the narrative and they actually end up discussing things and potentially get some things sorted... which does not interest the US or the other 6 members of the G7.

    A G-2 State is one that is tied to a US-led Security Architecture via foundational agreements on the one hand and tied to China's economic web on the other via omnibus agreements.

    Are you not paying attention... it is under both Trump and Biden that the US are reaching out to India... they recognise their mistake of investing too much in China and want to pull production out... too late of course so they will need sanctions and isolation and a new cold war... which is why Nuland is trying to get Russia on board and India is joining in with Naval games... set China up against India so they will waste money on military stuff and lead India to believe they are next for western investment that will lead them out of poverty and backwardness and allow them to leap from agricultural based to industrial centre... but they are not going to make that mistake twice and try to get open conflicts going so you both start fighting and wearing each other out so they remain on top.

    The Dark lord does not share power.

    In fact I bet the Democrats are saying behind doors to India that this G-2 state sharing could be with them if they play their cards right and become the Asian core ally of the US against China... India could make money being part of the silk route to the EU... being on that motorway from the EU to Asia has benefits... look in any country you please... whether it is a rail line or a canal or river or it is a road network... towns and cities don't just appear in the middle of nowhere for no reason... there is water or oil or coal or something that attracts people, and all the roads and rail lines and other connections too them lead to truck and train stops along the way where you can survive and trade just on the traffic too and from... India would not just be a trade stop... they could use the silk road to deliver their own goods in each direction for sale and receive goods via that trade network too and make good money...

    Or they can piss it all away hoping to get US approval.

    The irony is that Trump actually wanted to sanction China in a way to get international companies to take their factories out of China... he wanted them to bring them back to the US, but in all likelyhood they probably would have taken them to Bangledesh or India for the low wages and poor workers rights laws.

    The Democrats will likely dangle that apple in front of you but the apple is poisoned because it essentially requires you to create an enemy on your doorstep and break your BRICS alliance and chance from a multipole future where you are a pole on your own taking instructions from no one, to more of the same with the US and west in charge dictating to everyone.

    Important interview with Kissinger. Admits detente was used to kill the Soviets. Hints of G-2 with China.

    That is hilarious... I didn't read that but Kissenger was talking all through the early 2000s about how powerful China is getting and that a reverse move from the cold war where they used the Chinese against the Soviets could be applied where they use the Russians against the Chinese now might be needed... but Putin is not that stupid and rejected it every time the US asked Russia to impose sanctions on China or North Korea or Iran while the US had Russia under sanction too...

    He has clearly realised that is not going to work so he now realises the solution is the same as applied in Europe.... two big powers there... Russia and the EU... so create a cold war conflict between them in the post cold war era to keep them both from achieving their potential or worse working together against US interests. It worked in Europe and now we will see if India and China are as stupid as the EU is... could be interesting.

    Not really 1st and 2nd never work togather.

    The Dark Lord never shares power... he will give you the illusion of power to get your cooperation and loyalty, but misuse it and it is gone... and you are on your own.

    China wants to eat US. Don't you see they try to compete on any level with them and surpass them ?

    China wants to grow and develop into a word pole, but in the current US only pole world that is not allowed by the US... if China wanted to destroy the US they would not own a trillion dollars of US debt which would be worth nothing if they ever got into conflict... even if they got a little grumpy the US could write off that debt with this or that reason if they ever get the chance.

    China does not want the US system destroyed... that could create conflict where the US is still strong in many aspects... they don't want war... they want the US to fade back into a secondary power like the UK and France have. The US would be a pole, but a pole of many poles... a good question would be regarding France... will they remain part of the EU or become a power on their own... I guess it really depends on whether the EU remains a dictatorship of the elite or a representation of the people of Europe.

    If they manage to do so US will keep weakening and once China removes the dollar from world trading system, US will collapse and start a civil war.

    There has been plenty of talk about the US dollar no longer being the currency of trade, but it really only actually started happening when the US started using their dollar as a weapon. They have no one else but themselves to blame about getting kicked off that gravy train.

    They admit lot of stuff after it happens to look powerful. Just another lie that aims at rewriting the history.

    Yes, he flipflops like the wind when plans fail and mistakes are made.


    They were just afraid of USSR military power and had to calm down the game. Corruption and fake communism is what destroyed USSR, nothing else.

    The core irony is that they were able to befriend China to help them deal with the real threat of the Soviet Union... wouldn't it have been cheaper and simpler to befriend both and cut the hostile bullshit and both sides back down because there was no need for actual hostility... communism wasn't spreading like wild fire, and neither was democracy...
    d_taddei2
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    Post  d_taddei2 Tue Nov 02, 2021 11:34 pm

    Using old jets as drones, makes sense.


    https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a38028066/china-turning-old-fighter-jets-into-drones/
    TMA1
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    Post  TMA1 Wed Nov 03, 2021 12:24 am

    Isos wrote:
    China and the U.S, especially the Dems are allies. Their idea of the New World Order is to create G-2 states around the world.

    Not really 1st and 2nd never work togather. China wants to eat US. Don't you see they try to compete on any level with them and surpass them ? If they manage to do so US will keep weakening and once China removes the dollar from world trading system, US will collapse and start a civil war.

    Important interview with Kissinger. Admits detente was used to kill the Soviets.

    They admit lot of stuff after it happens to look powerful. Just another lie that aims at rewriting the history.

    They were just afraid of USSR military power and had to calm down the game. Corruption and fake communism is what destroyed USSR, nothing else.

    This. China is so ambitious and grasping. A huge inferiority complex of trying to outdo the west and frequently powerful people in China bring up the historical slights of the past. I dont trust chicoms one bit. They foundation ally black certain traits that were once found in the west. I think they are capable of doing unethical things that we would find abominable.

    I'm no friend of western powers and I've discussed their horrific corruption. That said I would trust Chinese leadership even less. I guess I have a bigotry but it isnt a thought of superiority. Rather their culture and their sociopolitical development.

    Even their past interactions. They cheated their associate nations. Never had true alliances. Dont trust them one bit.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Wed Nov 03, 2021 1:38 am

    It's hard to beat the US in terms of unethical things.

    China doesn't need such things anyway. They propose all of what US propose but for 1/10-1/2 of the price. Most US products are too much ecpensive for middle classes around the world when chinese stuff isn't. And it's been 25 years they produced western stuff so they have the expertise. If you want good stuff, better than traditionnal made in china, you will need to pay more but still less than for US.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Nov 03, 2021 6:50 am

    The fundamental point is that China does not want to replace the US at the head of the world, it wants a world where a country is not led by any other country... the opposite of what the west wants.

    How ironic is that... communist china wanting not to be led by anyone but also not to lead everyone either, while the US and the west fight them by creating a powerful grouping of countries with it to resist and maintain its own control of international organisations and opinion.

    The basic mistake you are making is trying to compare the US in charge with China in charge... when it is pretty clear China does not want to be in charge... they just don't want to be controlled by the US or the west.... the same as the rest of the world not wanting to be told what to do by the EU or US... of course China is going to be more appealing than unelected leadership from foreign states that could not care less about anyone but themselves and are open about that.

    Miss trust the chinese all you like... they are not asking for control, they are telling the US and west to back off and leave other countries alone instead of treating every other country as a resource.

    They are telling the borg to stop being the borg.
    RTN
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    Post  RTN Thu Nov 04, 2021 3:13 pm

    GarryB wrote:The fundamental point is that China does not want to replace the US at the head of the world, it wants a world where a country is not led by any other country... the opposite of what the west wants.
    BULLSHIT

    For the last two decades, China has made several attempts to destabilize regional and global order through three sequential displacement strategies pursued at the economic, military and political levels.

    The first of these strategies sought to destroy American order beginning with Asia-Pacific. The second sought to build Chinese order in the region, and the third — an expansion strategy — now seeks to do both globally.

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    RTN
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    Post  RTN Thu Nov 04, 2021 3:32 pm

    Isos wrote:It's hard to beat the US in terms of unethical things.
    China waged war for two decades after the end of WW-II to usurp territories of independent countries like Tibet and Xingian. Almost as ethical as U.S or Europe.

    Isos wrote:They propose all of what US propose but for 1/10-1/2 of the price. Most US products are too much ecpensive for middle classes around the world when chinese stuff isn't. And it's been 25 years they produced western stuff so they have the expertise.
    Cost of labor has increased drastically in China. The Chinese Yuan is trading for just $6 and not for $20 or $30 as it used to in the past. A smartphone manufactured by Huawei is almost as expensive as an Apple. They can't export goods at such dirt cheap prices like they did in the past.

    Emergence of technologies like 3D in the West has already made manufacturing much affordable than what was in the 80s and 90s when manufacturing was exported to China completely.

    The Chinese business environment is almost as opaque as their politics. Evergrande's recent collapse indicates the Chinese leadership learnt nothing from the 2007-08 financial crisis. China still struggles to develop cutting edge products like commercial jets. They are way behind the West in making semiconductors.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Thu Nov 04, 2021 6:03 pm

    Lol. US killed 1 million iraki for no reason. Just because they could. They are evil. Tibet conflict is a kid figh compare to what US does.

    Chinese products and work force became more expensive but still far less than US one and is beter for most countries where middle class get few hundred dollars per months.

    Semi conductors have reached their limits anyway. You can't go bellow the 3-5nm. You need new techs and China is investing massively in those new techs.

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    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Nov 04, 2021 9:11 pm

    RTN wrote:
    Isos wrote:It's hard to beat the US in terms of unethical things.
    China waged war for two decades after the end of WW-II to usurp territories of independent countries like Tibet and Xingian....

    Xinjiang was never independent country

    Also, it's been part of China since 1750s, long before WW2

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_under_Qing_rule


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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Fri Nov 05, 2021 5:13 am

    BULLSHIT

    For the last two decades, China has made several attempts to destabilize regional and global order through three sequential displacement strategies pursued at the economic, military and political levels.

    You clearly don't understand.

    China does not want the US in charge... the current system has the US in charge and all of the west supporting them and towing the line, joining coalitions of the stupid all over the planet supporting the US in securing oil supplies and contracts for lithium and arms sales around the world.

    The current system is a pyramid scheme with the US at the top and everyone below selling out their own populations in the interests of the US.

    The Chinese don't want this system to continue with them replacing the US... they are not interested in running the world themselves.

    They don't even want to destroy the US and the west, they just want to be able to do as they please without being assimilated by the west/Borg.

    China wants a world where one country does not dominate and tell every other country what to do for its own personal growth and benefit while other countries struggle to survive.

    That does not mean they don't want to make money and improve their own position, but they are not interested in being world leader and imposing its culture and ethics and morals on other countries the way the US does.

    The first of these strategies sought to destroy American order beginning with Asia-Pacific.

    The American order needs to be destroyed... it is a pyramid scheme that helps no one except the US... and keeps the rest of the world down and poor and weak and subservient.

    The second sought to build Chinese order in the region, and the third — an expansion strategy — now seeks to do both globally.

    The Chinese are negotiating with countries between it and the EU to create open and free and fair trade routes for good going from the EU to Asia and from Asia to the EU. They want them to be open and free and no subject to interference from the US which does not benefit from such free trade which is why they want to sabotage it by turning everyone against China.

    China waged war for two decades after the end of WW-II to usurp territories of independent countries like Tibet and Xingian. Almost as ethical as U.S or Europe.

    Ignored in the west till it could be used as a weapon against China now they have been designated the main rival/threat to US hegemony...

    A smartphone manufactured by Huawei is almost as expensive as an Apple.

    Except it is better.

    They can't export goods at such dirt cheap prices like they did in the past.

    No they can't, so they will make the same transition Japan did and go from the budget mass production market to the quality high end market... you are probably not old enough to remember when all the cheap shit came from Japan instead of from China...

    By the 1980s their cars were better than western car makers...

    Emergence of technologies like 3D in the West has already made manufacturing much affordable than what was in the 80s and 90s when manufacturing was exported to China completely.

    That is the promise, but little bits of plastic that work out costing thousands of dollars per kg or material, it is not a threat to Chinese production just yet.

    The Chinese business environment is almost as opaque as their politics.

    The west is no better on either count.... at least they don't invade countries every other day and murder thousands of people a year with drones...

    Evergrande's recent collapse indicates the Chinese leadership learnt nothing from the 2007-08 financial crisis.

    Companies in the west get bailouts from the taxpayers.... or not...

    China still struggles to develop cutting edge products like commercial jets. They are way behind the West in making semiconductors.

    Funny that in this case the west is Taiwan.... the most difficult part of commercial jets is the engines and many western aircraft makers don't even make their own engines or even all the bits of their engines.

    Lol. US killed 1 million iraki for no reason. Just because they could. They are evil. Tibet conflict is a kid figh compare to what US does.

    They didn't do it for nothing. A bit of Anti Saddam spite, and of course the obvious bonus... when you destroy a country whose primary income comes from selling oil... to rebuild they have to sell oil, which pays for the rebuild but also adds oil supplies to the market making oil cheaper which is always good for the US economy and they think bad for the Russian economy that obviously depends on oil to balance their budget...   Twisted Evil
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    Post  RTN Fri Nov 05, 2021 7:20 am

    PapaDragon wrote:Xinjiang was never independent country

    Also, it's been part of China since 1750s, long before WW2  

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_under_Qing_rule
    Qing dynasty was one of the many dynasties that ruled parts of modern day China. They occupied Xinjiang in 1884. In 1949 PLA entered Xinjiang to occupy it and make it a part of People's Republic of China.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incorporation_of_Xinjiang_into_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China

    Had they not occupied it, today Xinjiang would have remained East Turkistan.

    A dynasty is different from a country. China has been trying to usurp land, territorial waters of almost all its neighboring countries using this same dynasty logic, suggesting that just because a certain dynasty originating in China ruled those territories, those territories must be handed over to China.

    So by that logic most of what is now northern China should be handed over to Mongolia because Mongolian dynasties ruled over those territories.
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    Post  Sujoy Fri Nov 05, 2021 9:33 am

    GarryB wrote:The west is no better on either count.... at least they don't invade countries every other day and murder thousands of people a year with drones...
    Head of NATO says that China is not an enemy of NATO/West. However, these same set of people will suggest that NATO/West needs nuclear weapons to stop Russia.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2021/10/06/global-insider-nato-china-ties-515188

    Imagine.. Russia a country whose economy is just 1/6 of China's and a defence budget that is 1/3 of China's is a threat to the West but China's isn't.

    My point is,the West never considered China to be an adversary. In fact China is an ally of the West (along with Pakistan) that helps them to pin down two countries they dislike the most - Russia and India.

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    Post  miketheterrible Fri Nov 05, 2021 3:12 pm

    Sujoy wrote:
    GarryB wrote:The west is no better on either count.... at least they don't invade countries every other day and murder thousands of people a year with drones...
    Head of NATO says that China is not an enemy of NATO/West. However, these same set of people will suggest that NATO/West needs nuclear weapons to stop Russia.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2021/10/06/global-insider-nato-china-ties-515188

    Imagine.. Russia a country whose economy is just 1/6 of China's and a defence budget that is 1/3 of China's is a threat to the West but China's isn't.

    My point is,the West never considered China to be an adversary. In fact China is an ally of the West (along with Pakistan) that helps them to pin down two countries they dislike the most - Russia and India.


    You clearly are not very smart. The US made it clear, so did NATO, that their mission is against China now.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57466210

    https://www.ft.com/content/0202ed6e-62d1-44b6-a61c-8b1278fcf31b

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/14/world/europe/biden-nato-china-russia.html







    Sujoy, I have no idea how you been here for so long and yet get nearly everything wrong about everything about politics and foreign events. I dont think you been even close to spot on in anything. Maybe you are limited in knowledge or just orientate to nonsense that your bullshit media in India states (and I have plenty of experience in Indian media, guarantee I traveled more places than you have).

    BTW, if China was on the wests side to push Russia down, it surely isn't working. Since China is expanding investments in Russia and buying more goods now than ever, also looking to become even more dependent on Russia in energy and transportation.

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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Nov 05, 2021 7:55 pm

    RTN wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:Xinjiang was never independent country
    Also, it's been part of China since 1750s, long before WW2  
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_under_Qing_rule
    Qing dynasty was one of the many dynasties that ruled parts of modern day China. ...

    China is China

    Nobody founded a new country and called it China, it's the same country that has existed for millennia



    RTN wrote:They occupied Xinjiang in 1884. In 1949 PLA entered Xinjiang to occupy it and make it a part of People's Republic of China....

    PLA didn't occupy anything, Xinjiang wasn't magically independent during that period, It was and has remained part of China



    RTN wrote:...Had they not occupied it, today Xinjiang would have remained East Turkistan....

    And had General Santa Anna won against Texas today Texas would have been part of Mexico



    RTN wrote:...So by that logic most of what is now northern China should be handed over to Mongolia because Mongolian dynasties ruled over those territories.

    Mongolia free to try just as Mexico is free to try and get California back


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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Nov 06, 2021 6:29 am

    So by that logic most of what is now northern China should be handed over to Mongolia because Mongolian dynasties ruled over those territories.

    If it needs to be handed over then how about Mexican territory, or American Indian territory?

    Head of NATO says that China is not an enemy of NATO/West. However, these same set of people will suggest that NATO/West needs nuclear weapons to stop Russia.

    The Figurehead of HATO is just that. The US decides HATO policy and they view China as the enemy.

    The temporary european in that role will say they are not because it is in their interests to trade with China and Asia and make money, but he has as much power over what HATO is going to do as I do.

    Imagine.. Russia a country whose economy is just 1/6 of China's and a defence budget that is 1/3 of China's is a threat to the West but China's isn't.

    If military expenditure is a measure of threat then the US is and remains head and shoulders above every other country as a threat to everyone.

    My point is,the West never considered China to be an adversary. In fact China is an ally of the West (along with Pakistan) that helps them to pin down two countries they dislike the most - Russia and India.

    The US leads the west and they want China and Russia to be the bad guys at the moment... Europe and HATO keep saying Russia is not the enemy and that they need to communicate and then kick out 8 of 20 communicators for reasons they can't say... never expect what they say to match what they do or think.

    Sujoy, I have no idea how you been here for so long and yet get nearly everything wrong about everything about politics and foreign events. I dont think you been even close to spot on in anything. Maybe you are limited in knowledge or just orientate to nonsense that your bullshit media in India states (and I have plenty of experience in Indian media, guarantee I traveled more places than you have).

    A personal attack that is rather unnecessary. I am sure he is currently bombarded with propaganda from all sides and is trying to make sense of it. Being travelled means nothing at all in this situation.

    BTW, if China was on the wests side to push Russia down, it surely isn't working. Since China is expanding investments in Russia and buying more goods now than ever, also looking to become even more dependent on Russia in energy and transportation.

    The US pushing the EU to fear Russia as an enemy has forced a lot of cooperation and trade previously between the EU and Russia to turn east to China, and I suspect they want to do the same with the EU and China, but China is too important to the west... it is too important and when the silk roads and air corridors and NSR waterways open up they will be even more interlinked with China... to the point where they might reconsider their ties with the US...

    Even Boris Johnson said ties between Russia and the UK need to improve despite false flag exercises where they essentially called Putin a murderer... three times with only two actual deaths.

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    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Sat Nov 06, 2021 9:24 am

    It was personal jab and honestly, justified. The guy posts a lot, and I mean a lot, of bullshit regardless how we have proven him wrong time and time again.

    The issue may be him as he seems to be unwilling to see it any other way regardless of the mounting evidence contrary to his belief.

    I mean, gotta give the guy credit, he can be wrong on all occasions and still sticks to his guns. I guess respect in that is warranted.....

    Anyway, it's a moot point. China doesn't really care what anyone does, they will do what benefits them. So far it's been dealing with Russia in both military and financial development with them, where Russia is cashing in big time on both Chinese investments in Russia and cheap Russian oil and gas contracts to China.  Benefits both sides.  Where I do see something wrong in their relationship is that China uses Russia as rather it's mercenary arm by getting the Russians to clean up the mess in other areas where then China moves in to do business and reap the rewards. Seen in Venezuela and Syria, with a little bit in Libya.

    Otherwise, his conspiracy of China working with the west to keep Russia and India down is a silly joke. It was India afterall who sold out it's sovereignty to the US not long ago to allow US Navy ships and Jets to use Indian waters and airspace. And US did so to prove their ownership of India by having their ships float in Indian territorial waters without permission which stirred a lot of anger in India.  It really is more like India is working with the west to try and keep Russia and China down more so than the other.
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    Post  Sujoy Sat Nov 06, 2021 11:57 am

    GarryB wrote: so they are happy to involve India and the EU in this little conflict against China, because they know it will damage every party and want to be able to use other countries and groups of countries as cannon fodder to limit its own exposure to damage.
    Just that India has not taken any step against China despite several attempts made by U.S. Instead, China continues to remain India's largest trading partner. So, the U.S has failed to get India on board. China OTOH invaded India last year.

    The Kremlin is an ally of Beijing. Even then, the Kremlin has not hold India responsible for last year's border clashes with China. One reason for this could be that the Kremlin realizes that China was encouraged by the U.S to invade India.

    USA won’t move from its core foreign policy drives still dictated by the British racist imperialist religious prejudices - which survive through all the drama queenness of woke/progressive etc. In that old British view, India is a land of hated pagan Hindus of inferior race.

    GarryB wrote:The US pushing the EU to fear Russia as an enemy has forced a lot of cooperation and trade previously between the EU and Russia to turn east to China, and I suspect they want to do the same with the EU and China, but China is too important to the west... it is too important and when the silk roads and air corridors and NSR waterways open up they will be even more interlinked with China... to the point where they might reconsider their ties with the US...
    Precisely! So this turn of event benefits China and not Russia.
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    Post  GarryB Sat Nov 06, 2021 12:09 pm

    It was personal jab and honestly, justified. The guy posts a lot, and I mean a lot, of bullshit regardless how we have proven him wrong time and time again.

    The issue may be him as he seems to be unwilling to see it any other way regardless of the mounting evidence contrary to his belief.

    I mean, gotta give the guy credit, he can be wrong on all occasions and still sticks to his guns. I guess respect in that is warranted.....

    Depends what you mean about wrong.... he posts things and states his opinion, you and others state their opinions... lots of disagreements, but certainly nothing definitive.

    I can say the US are bastards and are using India as a weapon against China, but you could argue that India might be trying to use the US to get investment and factories built in India with western money to build infrastructure.... the west is happy to build highly polluting and dangerous factories in India, perhaps they are hoping for some high tech factories that they can use themselves the way China did.

    Who am I to say that is wrong, or that they wont make that mistake twice and anyway are more likely to invest in Bangledesh or Ukraine where the poverty and prospects appear much worse and so you can offer even lower wages and workers rights are unknown concepts...

    Anyway, it's a moot point. China doesn't really care what anyone does, they will do what benefits them.

    I am sure they realise there will be an arms race with the US and any fools they can gather together in the lynch mob of the stupid, but I rather suspect they would prefer not to have to have an arms race with India or Russia for that matter.

    Russian/Chinese cooperation seems to suggest the latter is unlikely...

    Where I do see something wrong in their relationship is that China uses Russia as rather it's mercenary arm by getting the Russians to clean up the mess in other areas where then China moves in to do business and reap the rewards. Seen in Venezuela and Syria, with a little bit in Libya.

    Russia is intervening in those locations out of personal interest... they are not the world police. If Chinese investment can help rebuild those places then I say that is much better than those countries either remaining poor or having to turn to the west for help.

    It really is more like India is working with the west to try and keep Russia and China down more so than the other.

    India is playing its own game, but I suspect the inevitable implementation of CASTA or whatever it is called... when India gets their S-400s delivered then the relationship will be tested properly...  I am sure Turkey will watch with interest what happens to India with its Su-35 like Su-30MKI+ upgrades and S-400 purchases...

    Just that India has not taken any step against China despite several attempts made by U.S.

    You say that, but does that make it true. Most of the deals and agreements between India and the US seem to be directed at what the Americans call "containing China".

    Invasion is a bit melodramatic isn't it? Border clashes seems more appropriate.

    USA won’t move from its core foreign policy drives still dictated by the British racist imperialist religious prejudices - which survive through all the drama queenness of woke/progressive etc. In that old British view, India is a land of hated pagan Hindus of inferior race.

    All the more reason to dump the west and reinforce BRICS and other agreements with Russia and China and other countries in the region... even Pakistan.

    Precisely! So this turn of event benefits China and not Russia.

    You misunderstand... the US turned the EU against Russia because it was not in US interests for Russia and the EU to become allies.... Russia can offer most things the US can offer but with the benefit of being a land neighbour... the US broke that partnership because they didn't get anything out of it.

    They are trying to do the same with the EU and China but the links and ties are much deeper there and what I was saying is that given the choice between links to Asia.... all those people... all those customers.... and a rather large amount of money too... the EU was OK with breaking ties with Russia, but ties with China might be stronger and more valuable than ties with the US... Russia is part of the trade route from Asia to the EU... in fact by sea and by land and by air you could get from Asia to the EU by all three modes of travel without having to cross borders... it is in effect the most direct route... though they will need to work on increasing their capacity in many areas.

    The point is that the current unipolar world has the US in charge and the west does as it is told, but if the EU say no and choose to make their own decisions and then the unipolar world is broken and countries and regions can start looking out for their own needs instead of seeking to please the US and her bitches.
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    Post  AlfaT8 Sat Nov 06, 2021 3:04 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:
    You clearly are not very smart.  The US made it clear, so did NATO, that their mission is against China now.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57466210

    https://www.ft.com/content/0202ed6e-62d1-44b6-a61c-8b1278fcf31b

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/14/world/europe/biden-nato-china-russia.html


    Sujoy, I have no idea how you been here for so long and yet get nearly everything wrong about everything about politics and foreign events.  I dont think you been even close to spot on in anything.  Maybe you are limited in knowledge or just orientate to nonsense that your bullshit media in India states (and I have plenty of experience in Indian media, guarantee I traveled more places than you have).

    BTW, if China was on the wests side to push Russia down, it surely isn't working.  Since China is expanding investments in Russia and buying more goods now than ever, also looking to become even more dependent on Russia in energy and transportation.

    I think i can point out where Sujoy's point of view is coming from.

    You see there is a segment in the American Right that believes that all the news and hype about China being the next greatest threat is all a smoke screen, and the real objective is to try to unify the country with the existence of a great external threat to the U.S, in order to deal with the terrible internal political situation.
    Simply put, they see this as another "Iraq has WMDs" or "Afghanistan is sending terrorists" campaign.

    While they are correct to some extent, the problem for them is, is that China is no Iraq nor Afghanistan, not even close, but these people see it as such regardless.
    If you are wondering why that is, it's because they have absolute faith in the U.S military and many of them also see China as a critical part of some "Globalist" institution of which the U.S would never attack.

    This is what i call the Black pigeon position, since he's the biggest name i know who promotes these ideas.
    Check it out.

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    miketheterrible
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    PLA Air Force General News Thread: - Page 15 Empty Re: PLA Air Force General News Thread:

    Post  miketheterrible Sat Nov 06, 2021 4:22 pm

    AlfaT8 wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:
    You clearly are not very smart.  The US made it clear, so did NATO, that their mission is against China now.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57466210

    https://www.ft.com/content/0202ed6e-62d1-44b6-a61c-8b1278fcf31b

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/14/world/europe/biden-nato-china-russia.html


    Sujoy, I have no idea how you been here for so long and yet get nearly everything wrong about everything about politics and foreign events.  I dont think you been even close to spot on in anything.  Maybe you are limited in knowledge or just orientate to nonsense that your bullshit media in India states (and I have plenty of experience in Indian media, guarantee I traveled more places than you have).

    BTW, if China was on the wests side to push Russia down, it surely isn't working.  Since China is expanding investments in Russia and buying more goods now than ever, also looking to become even more dependent on Russia in energy and transportation.

    I think i can point out where Sujoy's point of view is coming from.

    You see there is a segment in the American Right that believes that all the news and hype about China being the next greatest threat is all a smoke screen, and the real objective is to try to unify the country with the existence of a great external threat to the U.S, in order to deal with the terrible internal political situation.
    Simply put, they see this as another "Iraq has WMDs" or "Afghanistan is sending terrorists" campaign.

    While they are correct to some extent, the problem for them is, is that China is no Iraq nor Afghanistan, not even close, but these people see it as such regardless.
    If you are wondering why that is, it's because they have absolute faith in the U.S military and many of them also see China as a critical part of some "Globalist" institution of which the U.S would never attack.

    This is what i call the Black pigeon position, since he's the biggest name i know who promotes these ideas.
    Check it out.


    OK, if this is what he is referring to, then I kind of agree. His wording is rather bad though.

    I get what you are saying and there is some truth to it. US has had done and will continue to do some kind of foreign boogyman for all their internal woes. They done it for forever really. Back in the day with the British poking at them after independence, they had legitimacy. But the McCarthy era of the Red Scare to now, it isn't justified but really just a crap attempt (crappy one but effective one) to rally a large portion of the population on their side. Then they would use mob mentality to get rid of anyone who didn't agree with them. Then came the mid-late 60's and the 70's and all of that went down the drain as it no longer worked. They are just doing it again now after all these years to see if it works again. And it has semi worked but it hasn't worked for long since most know Russia isn't their enemy and that all their problems are due to their own incompetent leaders. So they shifted to China cause China is a real major power due to its economics and mass population in hopes that it can garner attention and people forget who their real enemy is. They just kinda conjoined Russia and China into a lump and saying it is them that is the problem, not us!

    Soon that will fail too. In the mean time, both Russia and China benefit greatly from this. It is the disjointed efforts against Russia and China, and many players just not interested to get involved in this mess even though they are on the side of the US.
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    PLA Air Force General News Thread: - Page 15 Empty China’s J-16D electronic warfare aircraft starts combat training, ‘to team up with J-20 stealth fighter’

    Post  Finty Sat Nov 06, 2021 9:57 pm

    https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202111/1238277.shtml

    China’s J-16D electronic warfare aircraft starts combat training, ‘to team up with J-20 stealth fighter’

    The J-16D electronic warfare aircraft belonging to the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) Air Force has recently entered combat training, and it is expected to conduct seamless, accompanying operations with the J-20 stealth fighter jet in moves with the potential to generate tremendous combat efficiency, experts said on Saturday.

    Shortly after its debut at Airshow China 2021 held in Zhuhai, South China's Guangdong Province in late September and early October, the J-16D has been deployed in real combat-oriented drills, China Central Television (CCTV) reported on Saturday, citing sources from the PLA Air Force.

    Being deployed in real combat-oriented drills means the J-16D has begun to form a combat capability after the PLA Air Force gains familiarity with the new aircraft, a Chinese military expert told the Global Times on Saturday, requesting anonymity.

    It will be ready for combat soon, if not already, the expert said.

    Specialized in electronic warfare, the J-16D is the latest class of domestically developed J-16 fighter jet. It is expected to accompany other warplanes seamlessly and enhance the PLA Air Force's capabilities in carrying out missions under informatized situation by establishing a complete aviation electronic warfare system.

    The J-16, from which the J-16D is derived, is a twin-seat, twin engine heavy fighter jet domestically developed in China. As a multirole fighter that excels at both offense and defense, it enjoys significant advantages in terms of the fire control system, radar and operation systems compared with other warplanes previously commissioned by the PLA Air Force.

    The biggest difference between the J-16D and the original J-16 is that the J-16D can carry a wider range of equipment, including the small pods on the aircraft's wingtips and the large pods under the aircraft's wings and belly, CCTV quoted Chinese military expert Wang Mingzhi as saying.

    These pods, containing electronic surveillance, communications disruption and radar jamming devices, are the J-16D's main battle equipment, in addition to the J-16's original capabilities as a fighter, including air-to-air missiles, making the aircraft particularly powerful, Wang Mingzhi said.

    In real combat situations, electronic warfare aircraft like the J-16D can accompany other warplanes and provide them with electronic warfare support, for example, conducting electronic jamming or deception, Wang Ya'nan, the chief editor of Beijing-based Aerospace Knowledge magazine, told the Global Times in a previous interview.

    They can also launch direct attacks on hostile radar installations or early warning aircraft, Wang Ya'nan said.

    Among all other warplanes, the J-16D can join hands with China's most advanced J-20 stealth fighter jet, CCTV reported.

    Wang Mingzhi said that, both the J-16D and the J-20 are designed to disrupt hostile radar assets. While the J-16D suppresses radars, the J-20 evades them.

    When the two aircraft team up, it would bring tremendous combat efficiency, and such a combination will definitely come in handy in future battlefields, Wang Mingzhi opined.

    J-16 fighter jets have been frequent participants in PLA exercises near the island of Taiwan over the past year, according to the island's defense authorities.

    Since electronic warfare is a crucial part in modern warfare, it will not be a surprise if the J-16D also joins similar drills in the future, experts said.

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