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    Strategic Cruise Missiles: Discussion

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    Austin
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    Strategic Cruise Missiles: Discussion

    Post  Austin on Sun Aug 15, 2010 5:37 pm

    I was thinking why cant we have just one threat where we can post information on Russian Cruise Missile and ICBM makes it easier to track at one place , Well its up to admins to take that call Neutral

    I got my copy of Russian Air Power by Yefim Gordon it has many interesting information of RuAF but here is something I found on Kh-101/102 to quote

    The flight testing of the Kh-101 has already been completed. This missile weighs some 2,200 - 2,400 kg , the weight of warhead is 400 kg. According to press reports, the Kh-101 has a maximum range of 5,000-5,500 Km a variable flight profile at altitudes ranging from 30 - 70m to 6000m , a cruising speed of 190-200 m/s and a maximum speed of 250-270m/s. It can well be classed as a low-observable flying vehicle because the radar cross section of the Kh-101 is 0.01 m2. The missile is equipped with an electro-optical system for correcting the flight trajectory and with a TV guidance system for terminal guidance. This ensures the hitting precision with a deviation of some 12- 20m.

    The upgraded Tu-95MS can carry eight Kh-101 missiles on four wing pylons. The same missile will also equip the upgraded Tu-160 which will be able to carry six missiles in each of its two weapons bays total of 12 Kh-101 or 102 missile. The highly accurate guidance system of the Kh-101 and its combined HE/fragmentation/penetrating warhead will enable one modernised Tu-160 to fulfil tasks previously achievable with an entire regiment of bombers. The upgraded version of Tu-22M3 is capable of carrying four Kh-101 missiles or six to eight Kh-SD


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    Re: Strategic Cruise Missiles: Discussion

    Post  Austin on Sun Aug 15, 2010 5:45 pm

    The Kh-55 and the Kh-555 was rated with an RCS of 0.1-0.2 m2 , seems like with Kh-101 they reduced the rcs to 1/10 of Kh-55.

    It will be interesting to find the Nuclear Yeald of the nuclear Kh-102 missile , I think they will have a new tactical TN weapons design for this new missile.

    Russian Admiral are already wanting to get back Tactical Nuclear Cruise Missile on submarine due to increased accuracy of new cruise missile

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    Re: Strategic Cruise Missiles: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Mon Aug 16, 2010 2:59 am

    From memory the standard Tu-95MS in service was the Tu-95MS16 and that was able to carry 16 of the smaller Kh-55 and Kh-55B cruise missiles, with ten on external pylons and 6 in the internal rotary weapon bay. (I didn't call it a bomb bay because Soviet Strategic bombers haven't carried bombs for some time.)
    The new Kh-101/102 series are larger and don't fit in the internal weapon bay of the Tu-95 or the Tu-22M3 and must be carried externally.
    With the older smaller missile the Tu-95MS16 could carry three missiles on the inner pylons and two missiles on the outer pylons, but with the heavier Kh-10x series they are reduced to two weapons per pylon as you mention.
    The Kh-555 is the Kh-55 missile with the guidance and terminal seeker of the Kh-10x series that will fit in the internal bay of the Tu-95MS so it could carry 8 Kh-101/102 missiles externally plus 6 Kh-555s internally.
    The weapon bay of the Tu-22M3 is only big enough for the Kh-15 Kickback missile and cannot carry Kh-55 or Kh-555 missiles though it might be able to carry Kh-SD missiles which are supposed to be greatly reduced size Kh-55s for anti ship use.
    The Tu-160s internal weapon bays are huge and have no problem taking Kh-55s or Kh-555s or Kh-101/102s.
    Always wondered if the rotary launchers could be removed and heavy FAB bombs carried in the Tu-160. The FAB-9000, FAB-5000, and FAB-3000 look like interesting weapons. Of course if we even get to see the actual "father of all bombs" tested a while back we might get an idea of how it is carried. All the footage on the internet showing the explosion generally had a daisy cutter being dropped from a C-130 shown as the weapon being released. I doubt the actual weapon has been shown publicly let alone a Blackjack actually releasing the weapon for secrecy reasons.

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    Re: Strategic Cruise Missiles: Discussion

    Post  Austin on Mon Aug 16, 2010 2:43 pm

    I think with an average speed of Mach 0.6 - 0.7 it would take nearly 5 - 6 hours to complete the 5000 km Range.

    But they can use the long leg to do some interesting things like fly low - low , fly around the target with multipath flight profile , besides the Electro-optical and TV channel for guidance and terminal homing similar to TERCOM navigation/DSMAC terminal homing.

    With availability of GLONASS precision signal the CEP will go up considerably with multiple GLONASS update between flights , I would bet the CEP should be in the range of ~ 5 m.

    RCS of 0.01 will be challenge even for high flying Kh-101 forget about terrain hugging mode.

    These cruise missile are good for mass attack against fixed target no matter how well defended it is , but for time sensitive target they really need to equip the Tu-95MS , Tu-22M3 and Tu-160 with a long range supersonic and then a hypersonic missile.

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    Re: Strategic Cruise Missiles: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Tue Aug 17, 2010 4:55 am

    I think with an average speed of Mach 0.6 - 0.7 it would take nearly 5 - 6 hours to complete the 5000 km Range.

    Quite true, but the facts of the matter are that they can be used two ways... as a stealthy first strike weapon, in which case speed is not as important as stealth and surprise, and as a retaliation weapon after an enemy first strike or attempt at first strike where Russian bombers will take 6 hours to get their missiles to their launch positions anyway, so ICBMs and SLBMs will already have hit their targets and disrupted the enemies defences... 12 hours later the cruise missiles start exploding on point targets.

    Of course the other use is with conventional warheads in a conventional conflict against point enemy targets... so again stealth is more important than speed.

    But they can use the long leg to do some interesting things like fly low - low , fly around the target with multipath flight profile , besides the Electro-optical and TV channel for guidance and terminal homing similar to TERCOM navigation/DSMAC terminal homing.

    To maximise range most cruise missiles will fly at medium altitude to make efficient use of fuel, probably at a speed of mach 0.4-0.6, and accelerate to mach 0.8-0.9 at very low level while in enemy territory.

    These cruise missile are good for mass attack against fixed target no matter how well defended it is , but for time sensitive target they really need to equip the Tu-95MS , Tu-22M3 and Tu-160 with a long range supersonic and then a hypersonic missile.

    Time sensitive targets are better engaged by platforms that are closer. In conventional war that means Submarines with Kh-101s. In all out war that means ICBMs.

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    Re: Strategic Cruise Missiles: Discussion

    Post  IronsightSniper on Sun Nov 28, 2010 1:55 pm

    Hmm...it seems we might have conflicting reports here.

    Janes reports that there was a proposed Propfan version of the Kh-101 which would extend it's range to 5,000 km, but apparently that version has been canceled since 2000.

    http://web.archive.org/web/20080804151642/http://www.janes.com/extracts/extract/jsws/jsws9082.html


    None the less, if the 5,000 km range version is confirmed or not, it wouldn't be wrong to expect that the Kh-101 has the same range as the original variants (2,500 - 3,000 km) which is still longer than most countries are anyways, which means Tu-22/95/160s could fire them before the radar envelope of most countries can see the plane. This also means that Russia could blanket Tblisi with Kh-101s from Tupolevs launched at random airports in Moscow. That 0.01 m2 RCS would also make it difficult for most SAM systems (except S-300/Patriot) to detect it, that is, not including old SAMs integrated with new electronics.

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    Re: Strategic Cruise Missiles: Discussion

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sun Nov 28, 2010 3:24 pm

    The entire Kh-101/102 project was dropped by 2003. It hasn't been heard from since.

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    Re: Strategic Cruise Missiles: Discussion

    Post  IronsightSniper on Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:09 pm

    lol...so does Russia have any plans for low-RCS PGMs?

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    Re: Strategic Cruise Missiles: Discussion

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:38 pm

    What ended up happening was the seeker for the Kh-101 was installed on the Kh-555. If you fastforward to 4:50, you can see what happened with that.


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    Re: Strategic Cruise Missiles: Discussion

    Post  Austin on Sun Nov 28, 2010 5:03 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:The entire Kh-101/102 project was dropped by 2003. It hasn't been heard from since.

    Check the latest book by Yefim Gordon Russian Strategic Aviation Today, the Kh-101 and Kh-555 project is operationally tested , it has good details on both the missile.

    Kh-101 uses turbofan engine and the prop fan was dropped. Kh-101 is stated to have a range of 5,500 km with 400 kg conventional warhead

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    Re: Strategic Cruise Missiles: Discussion

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sun Nov 28, 2010 7:37 pm

    If Kh-101 had survived past the early part of the decade, there would be something about it in the news. Reports stopped because the programme was canceled.

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    Re: Strategic Cruise Missiles: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Sun Nov 28, 2010 11:26 pm

    The Kh-101 and Kh-102 would hardly be for export so why bother putting its progress in the news.

    I have seen several photos that claim to show Kh-101/102 missiles carried externally on Bears.

    If the guidance system is good enough to adapt to the Kh-55 missiles then the missiles themselves can hardly have been failures.

    Maybe reports stopped because the missiles are in service and there is nothing more to report?

    Note every report in the news I have read about strategic aviation mentions cruise missiles with ranges of over 5,000km and reports of the universal vertical launch system for the navy vessels clearly state compatibility with a range of missiles including Brahmos, the Club series of supersonic and subsonic antiship missiles, subsonic land attack missiles, and the anti submarine missile with a torpedo payload... and the Kh-101/-102 series 5,000km range land attack cruise missile.

    My guess is that if it is not is service it wasn't cancelled but put on hold till older missiles are used up in exercises.

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    Re: Strategic Cruise Missiles: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:33 am

    Graney class nuclear submarines are designed to launch a variety of long-range cruise missiles (up to 3,100 miles or 5,000 km), with conventional or nuclear warheads, and effectively engage submarines, surface warships and land-based targets.

    Only missiles that could fit that description is the Kh-101 and Kh-102.

    http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20110131/162394984.html

    Clearly the program is not dead and the missiles are entering service.

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    Re: Strategic Cruise Missiles: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:13 am

    Graney class nuclear submarines are designed to launch a variety of long-range cruise missiles (up to 3,100 miles or 5,000 km), with conventional or nuclear warheads, and effectively engage submarines, surface warships and land-based targets.

    Only missiles that could fit that description is the Kh-101 and Kh-102.

    http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20110131/162394984.html

    Clearly the program is not dead and the missiles are entering service.


    Besides he didn't say he thought they were cancelled because he knew they were cancelled, he said he hadn't heard any progress reports regarding the program and that that indicated to him that it was cancelled.

    I am sure Vlad is happy to be mistaken in this case because these missiles look to be very capable weapons.

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    Re: Strategic Cruise Missiles: Discussion

    Post  IronsightSniper on Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:31 pm

    They never actually mentioned the name of the missile so I wouldn't say so surely that the Kh-101 program is alive.

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    Re: Strategic Cruise Missiles: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:35 pm

    It says two missiles, one with a conventional warhead and one with a nuke, and both with a flight range of 5,000km will be used on the ship. The Kh-101 and Kh-102 are the only missiles that fit that description... unless they dropped them and developed from scratch two new missiles with the same general performance as the two missiles they dropped.

    I would expect what really happened was that they did the testing and found they did what was expected of them and then there were no further reports about them simply because testing was done but there were no platforms ready for them to be operational yet till the backlog of Kh-55s were turned into Kh-555s and they could start making the larger longer ranged Kh-10x missiles to replace them.

    AFAIK the Russian navy withdrew its nuclear weapons from operational vessels, but that due to their current reduced presence at sea that they are changing that policy to add nuclear weapons to redress the current imbalance between the Russian fleet and NATOs fleet.
    Therefore it makes sense that they would be deployed to sea on ships and subs first.

    I understand that the USUK vertical launch system the Russian navy has introduced for its ships from corvette size and larger has the option of firing Kh-101/102s in addition to Brahmos/Oniks, and the Club family of subsonic and supersonic land attack and anti ship missiles plus the the ship launched anti sub missile the 91RE2 which is a ballistic missile with a torpedo payload.

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    Re: Strategic Cruise Missiles: Discussion

    Post  IronsightSniper on Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:25 am

    Of course, you have the Vulkan.

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    Cruise missiles

    Post  GarryB on Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:53 am

    The Vulkan is an antiship missile with no land attack version and its range is considerably less than 5,000km.... more like 1,000km.

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    Re: Strategic Cruise Missiles: Discussion

    Post  Austin on Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:42 am

    Nice Interview , Talks about new Hypersonic Missile , Kondor-E and many others

    Interview: Director-General of the Military Industrialization Corporation 'NPO Mashinostroyenia' Alexander Leonov

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    Russia deploys new missile system in Chechnya

    Post  Russian Patriot on Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:01 am

    Russia deploys new missile system in Chechnya

    RIA Novosti

    11:51 14/12/2011 MOSCOW, December 14 (RIA Novosti) - A new missile system has been deployed in Russia’s Northern Caucasus republic of Chechnya, a senior military official said on Wednesday.

    The Barnaul-T system will be hooked up to Russia’s Glonass sat-nav system.

    “The new system makes for better coordination of the actions of missile defenses on all levels, and also increases their mobility and durability during battle,” Lt. Col. Oleg Kochetkov told reporters.

    The new system will track and coordinate information on airborne targets, Kochetkov added.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/space/library/news/2011/space-111214-rianovosti01.htm

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    Re: Strategic Cruise Missiles: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:09 am

    Ahh, this is the Barnaul-T C4IR system for AD units.

    It will link up existing SAM and radar batteries and share data and air cover to make them work much more efficiently.

    It means if a BUK battery spots another Georgian UAV it can pass that data on to, say an OSA battery to engage using much cheaper missiles located closer to where the target is.

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    Re: Strategic Cruise Missiles: Discussion

    Post  Austin on Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:13 pm

    Just came across an old but very interesting news on Kh-555

    Strategic Missile Carriers Reequipped

    Kh-555 cruise missile is much more accurate than its predecessor

    To fly through the window and hit the target from the distance of over two thousand km is the mission that may be completed by Kh-555 - Russia’s newest airborne cruise missile, developed by Tactical Missiles Corporation. It may take place of the cruise missiles with nuclear warheads, which are in service with the Russian strategic air forces today.

    Held in mid-August, the tests of a new missile were attended by President Vladimir Putin. According to the military men, the event has put an end to the U.S. monopoly in the field of high-precision long-range missiles. From now on, Russia’s Air Force will be able to use such weapons to solve any tasks, including destruction of international terrorists’ camps.

    The way Kh-555 missile came on the scene was a sort of sensation. Russian defence enterprises have not come up with new strategic weapon systems for a long time. As the experts say, it is both expensive and useless. The prospects of the armed conflict between Moscow and Washington, which made the states constantly perfect their offensive weapons, have faded away, and nuclear weapons cannot be used against terrorists.

    All this could make useless the most advanced domestic bomber aircraft Tu-160 with Kh-55 long-range nuclear missiles. The operating range of a nuclear warhead weapon compensates on inaccurate firing. Equipped with non-nuclear warhead, the missile will be no good.

    “It took us little time to make a new non-strategic cruise missile on the old platform,
    - general designer of Raduga JSC Igor Seleznev said to Izvesiya correspondent. – By using Kh-55 as a basis for a new missile we have spent half of what we could if we started from scratch”.

    Kh-555 and its predecessor have only formal resemblance. According to Seleznev, Kh-555 is equipped with a different engine, homing head and warhead. Thanks to additional fuel tanks the missile range is increased to approximately 3.5 thousand km. It may fly at different altitudes and even skim above the ground surface. Its homing head receives the data both from its own optic-electronic navigation system and the GLONASS multichannel satellite navigation system. Instead of compact nuclear charge (130 kg) it may be equipped with armor-piercing, shaped-charge, fragmentation or high-explosive warhead with the weight of over 350 kg.

    Air mission data is fed into the Kh-555 missile and autopilot of the bomber aircraft before the flight. After missile launch the crew only controls the way the mission is being carried out. In August all four Kh-555 missiles launched from Tu-160 hit the target during the tests. The military men say that two of them flew through the window and the other two – through the door of a deserted house at the Pemboy test site near Vorkuta, where according to scenario the terrorists were hiding.

    Kh-55 is the second adopted for service missile system, developed at a well-shaped domestic defence holding - Tactical Missiles Corporation. Not so long ago the Black Sea Fleet was armed with the Bal-E mobile coastal anti-ship missile system with the Kh-35 cruise missiles. The latter development is unique. It is proved by the fact that its homing head may be purchased by the U.S. for the Harpoon anti-ship missiles.

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    Re: Strategic Cruise Missiles: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:37 am

    Interesting.

    The Kh-55, which the Kh-555 is based on had saddle fuel tanks added to boost its range from 2,000km to 3,000km, it is interesting that the Kh-555 can achieve 3,500km.

    I suspect it has a newer motor that is rather more fuel efficient.

    The purpose of the Kh-555 is to make use of all the Kh-55 missiles now that they are introducing the Kh-101/102 missiles which are larger and heavier but have a range of over 5,000km.

    With new conventional roles it makes sense to develop the Kh-555 as it creates a ready supply of weapons and solves the problem of what to do with the old missiles in one go.

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    Re: Strategic Cruise Missiles: Discussion

    Post  Austin on Fri Dec 30, 2011 8:50 am

    The original Kh-55 has a range of 2500 km , now the new Kh-555 has a range of 3500 Km with jetissable CFT.

    If you read the news it says the only thing common between the two is the external shape remains the same else every thing is changed from within.

    The increase in range is likely to be achieved by a combination of factors , more effecient turbofan engine , additonal fuel tanks which means more fuel , perhaps better fuel with more energy , much lighter electronics compared to the one used in 80' , low electricity requirement for more modern electronics , better packaging density which means more space for larger warhead which is ~ 400 kg for KH-555.

    They managed to double the range of original Kh-35 Antiship missile in the modernised Kh-35UE without increasing its dimension or weight and using the same warhead size.

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    Re: Strategic Cruise Missiles: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:59 pm

    The original Kh-55 has a range of 2500 km , now the new Kh-555 has a range of 3500 Km with jetissable CFT.

    Where did you get that info?

    My information is that the original Kh-55, which was round, was tested and had a range of 2,000km. The goal, however was to match US missiles which had ranges of 2,500km or more with different flight profile options. The solution was saddle tanks... which are not jettisonable, that changed the external shape of the missile to roughly triangular in cross section. This extended the new missiles range to 3,000km. The new missile was called Kh-55S or something.

    ie:



    The triangular shape improved body lift and aerodynamic shaping... in addition to carrying a lot more fuel.

    The small jet engines were made in the Ukraine at Motor Sich, but the new motors for the Kh-555 and the Kh-101/102 and now other missiles are now made by Saturn, and the new more powerful helicopter engines formerly made at Motor Sich, will begin production at Klimov in 2014.

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