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    Il-112V light military transport

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:14 am

    If that is the case then they need to say that now... well they actually should have said it 3-4 years ago.

    The original Su-27 design was designed from the outset to have a certain percentage superiority to the F-15 in various aspects... (this is quite normal... the F-16 was designed to be something like 30% better than the MiG-21 in manouvering aspects (not speed))

    When they built the first flying prototype of the T-10 they found it was not superior to the F-15 base design at all, in fact it was inferior... so they totally redesigned it... which took time and money.

    Right now the An-26 is getting close to its expiry date, so time is running out... their best bet would probably be to sort out the current design issues and then start on the improved Il-112VM design with improved specs.

    I mean this thread alone started in 2010...

    According to the posted figures the difference in max weight for both aircraft is less than 2 tons yet the slightly heavier one has much better range with a much better payload with less powerful engines.

    Just looking at the prototype the Il-112V seems to be mostly made of composites (yellow) with only specific parts made of aluminium (painted white) where strength is needed like control surfaces, plus obviously the dielectric panels for the nose radar and other sensors fitted.

    Would be interesting to see empty weight figures for the Il-112V and a comparison of fuel burn rate stats for the engines of both aircraft...

    Of course if it can exceed the performance of the An-26 then it will already be an improvement, but working out the difference might be useful for further development of the aircraft.
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    Gazputin

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    Post  Gazputin on Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:32 am

    you have no idea what you are talking about …
    who cares what the "spec " was …
    it was just a ballpark figure to exceed the previous product
    almost every project I worked on …. guess what
    achieve 20% better at 20% lower price ….

    and every CIA troll reading this …. will say "hey who is this ?"

    its all a load of mental masturbation …

    its a good plane …. it will be built

    the biggest issue in case you guys haven't figured it out is ….
    powerplants not the airframes ….

    the Russians can build anything ….. its the engines that are the key issue …

    come on you guys … wake up

    lift the conversation …
    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python on Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:03 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    LMFS wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:Don't mean to rain on the parade but the Il-112V has been rejected by the MoD
    Until they correct the overweight... or do you mean something different?

    Even if they fix it there still isn't enough payload for what we need.  We need an aircraft with the capabilities of a C295.

    What you mean like the An-72? They've no urgent need of replacement.
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:42 am

    The primary purpose of the Il-112V is to replace existing aircraft designed by a design bureau located in the Ukraine, with an aircraft designed and built completely in Russia of Russian components.

    At the very least the design specifications would need to match the existing types it is replacing... the An-24, An-26, and An-72, however they will also be developing a range of other products and equipment that might also require an improvement too.

    For instance, right now the aircraft in the An-26 class might not be able to carry some of the things they want to move by air, which means to move those sorts of things they will need the next sized aircraft... ie An-12.

    Smaller aircraft are cheaper to buy and to operate and can operate from smaller airfields, so being able to carry a cargo in an An-26 replacement might be a very useful thing.

    The load might not be able to be carried by the An-26 because it is too big to fit even if it can carry its weight. The result might be that the Il-112V is made bigger inside because the weight of 5-6 tons is what they need, but they also need a larger internal volume to carry what needs to be carried.

    A larger internal volume means more drag and lowers speed and range, but it means it can carry load smaller aircraft cannot.

    The plane with the highest speed or longest range or heaviest payload capacity is not the best... they have plenty of experience regarding what they need and where it needs to be able to operate... and aircraft that does what they need is exactly what they should be asking for... and if they want to change their minds now, then the maker and designers can hardly be blamed for that.
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    Post  dino00 on Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:20 pm

    The designer told about the "refusal" during the first flight of the IL-112

    In PJSC "IL" denied rumors about stopping the engine during the first flight of the IL-112.

    During the first flight of the Il-112B military transport aircraft, the automatic engine control system switched to hydromechanical, which did not affect the test course. This was announced in an interview with the relevant publication Aviation Explorer by the General Designer of Il PJSC Nikolay Talikov.

    According to him, the rise took place without any problems. The car made three circles, one of them - with an imitation of landing.

    When the crew was already preparing for landing, literally only a few seconds left before touching the ground, an alarm went off at a height of 30 meters and the engine automatically switched from the automatic control system to the hydromechanical one. The crew performed the landing normally, taxied into the parking lot, and only then turned off the sound and light alarms, which spoke about switching the engine to another mode, ”said Talikov.

    Talikov said that later, analyzing the flight records, the designers saw that the left engine worked in the specified range, and the right one switched to hydromechanics and worked with slightly lower revolutions.

    Thus, the failure was, but the engine did not stop, and the failure of the automation, on the contrary, unexpectedly for us, confirmed the reliability of the transition to the backup system. And the aircraft can fly on hydromechanics for an arbitrarily long time, this is its regular backup mode, ”the Designer stressed.

    According to the designer, the engine refinement due to the failure will be insignificant and will not take much time.

    https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/2019417164-toTa6.html

    What do you think GazPutin? Others?
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    Post  dino00 on Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:30 pm

    Refinement of the IL-112V can be carried out within two years - the governor

    https://www.militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=506353&lang=RU
    Vladimir79
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    Post  Vladimir79 on Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:34 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    What you mean like the An-72? They've no urgent need of replacement.

    Who do you think makes the engines for that? We are not on the best of terms.
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:03 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    What you mean like the An-72? They've no urgent need of replacement.

    Who do you think makes the engines for that?  We are not on the best of terms.  

    Well the An-72 is more than 1.5 times bigger than the il-112. The engines used there, the D-36 (from which the later D-436 where generated), have a max takeoff thrust of 6.5 tons. That means that they could be replaced, if needed with a derated PD-8.  This of course will not be worth also because it would remain a foreign aircraft. If needed it could be possible, however, to create an aircraft with size and payload between the il-112 and the Il-276 powered by such engines (maybe sort of better An-178).

    I do not believe it is now a priority such an aircraft, also because there are already several projects that needs first to be finalised (including, of course the Il-112 and the Il-276).

    However, if Antonov would ever come back to Russia, it could be worth to give a new life to the company with new aircraft models, maybe starting with a russianised and modernised An-178 (also because at that point, practically all the older Antonov aircrafts would be already replaced by new Ilyushin models).
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    Post  Vladimir79 on Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:19 pm

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:

    Well the An-72 is more than 1.5 times bigger than the il-112. The engines used there, the D-36 (from which the later D-436 where generated), have a max takeoff thrust of 6.5 tons. That means that they could be replaced, if needed with a derated PD-8.  This of course will not be worth also because it would remain a foreign aircraft. If needed it could be possible, however, to create an aircraft with size and payload between the il-112 and the Il-276 powered by such engines (maybe sort of better An-178).

    I do not believe  it is now a priority such an aircraft, also because there are already several projects that needs first to be finalised (including, of course the Il-112 and the Il-276).

    However, if Antonov would ever come back to Russia, it could be worth to give a new life to the company with new aircraft models, maybe starting with a russianised and modernised An-178 (also because at that point, practically all the older Antonov aircrafts would be already replaced by new Ilyushin models).

    Once we annexed Crimea there was no hope of them coming back. Antonov is not the problem, the real loss was Motor Sich which supplied so many of our aviation engines. We should have been ready for the supply chain problems in advance but lack of industrial planning has caused the VTA to suffer chronic shortage of spares for too many years.

    Having a reliable replacement in the 9-10t category is a must for tactical aviation unless we had An-70 which could do it all.
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:41 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:

    Well the An-72 is more than 1.5 times bigger than the il-112. The engines used there, the D-36 (from which the later D-436 where generated), have a max takeoff thrust of 6.5 tons. That means that they could be replaced, if needed with a derated PD-8.  This of course will not be worth also because it would remain a foreign aircraft. If needed it could be possible, however, to create an aircraft with size and payload between the il-112 and the Il-276 powered by such engines (maybe sort of better An-178).

    I do not believe  it is now a priority such an aircraft, also because there are already several projects that needs first to be finalised (including, of course the Il-112 and the Il-276).

    However, if Antonov would ever come back to Russia, it could be worth to give a new life to the company with new aircraft models, maybe starting with a russianised and modernised An-178 (also because at that point, practically all the older Antonov aircrafts would be already replaced by new Ilyushin models).

    Once we annexed Crimea there was no hope of them coming back.  Antonov is not the problem, the real loss was Motor Sich which supplied so many of our aviation engines.  We should have been ready for the supply chain problems in advance but lack of industrial planning has caused the VTA to suffer chronic shortage of spares for too many years.  

    Having a reliable replacement in the 9-10t category is a must for tactical aviation unless we had An-70 which could do it all.  

    An70 was a much bigger aircraft with a max payload of 47 tons. Anyway, everything that could have been done by the the An-70 could be covered by the combination of Il-276 (20 tons payload in normal use, possibly I would imagine with a max payload of about 26 tons (similar to the embraer KC-390, that have the same size and engines with the same thrust)) and Il-476.
    Later they could develop a version of both aircrafts with turboprop or prop fan engines (using as a base the turbo shaft PD-12 that they are developing for the Mil Mi-26 Helicopter), if a lower operating speed is required by the VDV. In this case, such a prop fan would also replace the motor sich built D-27 propfan (for which several parts where anyway made in Russia).

    There would be no more engines that Russia would.be missing for the loss of Ivchenko-Progress and Motor Sich
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    Post  Vladimir79 on Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:06 am

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:

    An70 was a much bigger aircraft with a max payload of 47 tons. Anyway, everything that could have been done by the the An-70 could be covered by the combination of Il-276 (20 tons payload in normal use, possibly I would imagine with a max payload of about 26 tons (similar to the embraer KC-390, that have the same size and engines with the same thrust)) and Il-476.
    Later they could develop a version of both aircrafts with turboprop or prop fan engines (using as a base the turbo shaft PD-12 that they are developing for the Mil Mi-26 Helicopter), if a lower operating speed is required by the VDV. In this case, such a prop fan would also replace the motor sich built D-27 propfan (for which several parts where anyway made in Russia).

    There would be no more engines that Russia would.be missing for the loss of Ivchenko-Progress and Motor Sich

    Il-276 will never fill the needs of tactical airlifter that needs to operate from sand or snow. It will suffer the same FOD characteristics of its big brother. There are many engine series from Motor Sich that needs to be replaced but development stalls much less developing the successors.
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    Post  Gazputin on Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:16 am

    this is exactly what testing is for ….
    if the engine hadn't (apparently) switched automatically from auto to manual
    they would as part of their testing regime …. done this anyway
    apparently they did it earlier than expected …. so what

    believe me …. electronics is always the "black hole" …. just ask Boeing
    its all perfectly normal stuff ….
    it sounds weird …. but you want things to go wrong ….
    you purposely push things beyond their limit ...

    the big thing to me …. being an ultra-pragmatist
    no.1 issue for this program right now
    … they need to build at least 2 more prototypes for flight testing … asap

    thing is … do they make 2 more "heavy ones"
    or wait and do 2 revised "light ones"

    you see what I'm getting at …. if that sole flying prototype crashes
    they will lose 1 year easily …

    I'd sign off on a "lightened" 3rd and 4th aircraft …. and don't be such an "idealist"
    they should be getting those built asap …..

    interesting plane isn't it …
    it seems to have quite a short wingspan compared to say the Il-114 chase plane
    that will use the same engines eventually

    not knowing the history of this plane that well ….
    I assume it is to make it easier to land on roads etc ? re width ?

    fat body … makes it easier to have wider landing gear from the fuselage.... I get that
    rather than from engine pods ….. and of course far more useful re loads

    where I live I see Lockheed Hercules over my house … a few times a week
    and I can assure you they aren't "impressive" … they are dinosaurs

    I also get C-17s every 1-2 months …. they are impressive
    and they have the most enormous tails ….. you can't believe how big they are …. they are gi-normous

    so I can't see any reason seeing those 2 "world beaters" over my house

    that the Russians can't sort out the little Il-112 …. with its quite large tail ….

    they will do it standing on their heads if you ask me ….





    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:53 am

    The An-72 replacement is just a twin jet that is exactly the same with the engines moved from above the wing to a more conventional location.

    In such a case a new Russian Il-276 should be in the same position... it will be much faster than the An-12 it is replacing, but there might be some issues in regard to what airstrips it can safely operate from.

    I would suggest the Il-276 is probably a bit too big for tactical use, but if there is a demand for an aircraft in the 10 ton payload capacity range then it shouldn't be too hard to develop an aircraft to fill that niche.

    The An-24 and An-26 were very successful over their operational lives but even then they found problems with operations in hot and high regions so the An-32 was developed to cope... it had much more powerful engines.

    It would not be outrageous to suggest history might repeat and if the Il-112 and Il-114 lack payload or power for certain operations that a more powerful engine option could be adapted to solve the problem.

    Regarding the test flight... that is what it was... a test flight. The engine management system detected a problem on one of the engines and changed to a different control method and alerted the crew. Sounds like the failsafe worked correctly, and now it is time to look over the telemetry and collected data and work out what went wrong with the new engine and decide what to do about it.

    Test flights that have no problems are nice because it suggests you have done everything right and the aircraft is perfect... but we know the aircraft isn't perfect so a test with no problems means you haven't fully tested everything yet... which is also OK because you don't test everything on the first flight. Or even the second.

    Finding serious problems and carefully working out what is wrong and how to fix it is much more reassuring than no problems at all.
    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:39 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:

    An70 was a much bigger aircraft with a max payload of 47 tons. Anyway, everything that could have been done by the the An-70 could be covered by the combination of Il-276 (20 tons payload in normal use, possibly I would imagine with a max payload of about 26 tons (similar to the embraer KC-390, that have the same size and engines with the same thrust)) and Il-476.
    Later they could develop a version of both aircrafts with turboprop or prop fan engines (using as a base the turbo shaft PD-12 that they are developing for the Mil Mi-26 Helicopter), if a lower operating speed is required by the VDV. In this case, such a prop fan would also replace the motor sich built D-27 propfan (for which several parts where anyway made in Russia).

    There would be no more engines that Russia would.be missing for the loss of Ivchenko-Progress and Motor Sich

    Il-276 will never fill the needs of tactical airlifter that needs to operate from sand or snow. It will suffer the same FOD characteristics of its big brother.  There are many engine series from Motor Sich that needs to be replaced but development stalls much less developing the successors.    
    that's one of the reasons for which I said that a turboprop or propfan powered version could be created for both aircrafts. The turboshaft PD-12V (capable of up to 14500 HP should be ready in 4 years. Then a propfan variant could be developed. The propeller of the D-27 engine of the An-70 was made by Aerosila, and also many other components were made in Russia. Motor Sich alone (without the russian companies that participated to the project) is not able to build that particular engine.


    Which other aircraft engines that previously Russia was getting from Motor Sich have not been or will not be replaced in the next 4/5 years with more modern russian engines?


    The elicopter engines for the Mi-28 and Ka-52 are now produced in Russia. The engine for the Mi-38 has been developed and produced in Russia. The small turboprop (850 HP) for the Let-410 will be ready soon.

    The D436 will be replaced by the PD-8 (some of the D436 for the An-148 were assembled in Moscow anyway).
    The Ai-222 for the Yak-130 has already been fully "Russianised".
    There is not yet a replacement for the D-18T of the An-124, but the PD-24 should be ready in a few years, followed later by the bigger PD-35, for which there was no ukrainian counterpart. Anyway Motor Sich has not produced any D-18T for many years, and it would have been expensive and not easy at all even with Russian support to restart the production for a small.batch.
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    Post  Gazputin on Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:05 pm

    just read they plan to show Il-112 at MAKS in August-Sept

    pretty good indication its a goer ...
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    Post  Vladimir79 on Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:05 pm

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:


    Which other aircraft engines that previously Russia was getting from Motor Sich have not been or will not be replaced in the next 4/5 years with more modern russian engines?

    Can you even name a single new engine that didn't exist in some form 30 years ago that powers a certified production aircraft?  Safran is already two generations past that.

    The elicopter engines for the Mi-28 and Ka-52 are now produced in Russia. The engine for the Mi-38 has been developed and produced in Russia. The small turboprop (850 HP) for the Let-410 will be ready soon.

    Those engines are Klimov, they have always been able to produce that since Soviet days.  It is the ones we didn't produce that are the problem.  

    The Ai-222 for the Yak-130 has already been fully "Russianised".

    So you did find one that we didn't produce previously, but it certainly isn't new.
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:18 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:


    Which other aircraft engines that previously Russia was getting from Motor Sich have not been or will not be replaced in the next 4/5 years with more modern russian engines?

    Can you even name a single new engine that didn't exist in some form 30 years ago that powers a certified production aircraft?  Safran is already two generations past that.


    Safran?they have some helicopter engines but they don't produce any single modern civil aircraft engine alone. They are in several partnership with American companies, like that for the Cfm56 and LEAP, where they are in a 50% joint venture with GE.

    Their only fully own project, the silvercrest for the business jet market had too many problems and delays and they have now to pay a penalty to Dassault in addition to having lost the contract.

    Anyway, no western country is fully self sufficient in aero engine design and production for all the market sectors either.

    PD-14 is not a soviet engine and both the engine and the aircraft will be certified soon.
    The SaM 146 did not exist in soviet time and it is 50% Russian (and with all its problems it is much better than the D-436). Anyway PD-8 will replace it.


    Sorry, Vlad, I don't fully understand your point. I agree that having lost access to the Zaporozhe engines has been a problem on the short and medium term. They were, however, only soviet legacy engines, never fully modernised and apart from the D27 that was never serially built there was no real new project that russia has lost the access to.

    Or am I missing some other modern aircraft engine from ukraine?
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    Post  Vladimir79 on Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:22 pm

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:
    Safran?they have some helicopter engines but they don't produce any single modern civil aircraft engine alone. They are in several partnership with American companies, like that for the Cfm56 and LEAP, where they are in a 50% joint venture with GE.


    Their only fully own project, the silvercrest for the business jet market had too many problems and delays and they have now to pay a penalty to Dassault in addition to having lost the contract.

    Anyway, no western country is fully self sufficient in aero engine design and production for all the market sectors either.

    When their annual revenue is four times the entire UAC they must be doing something right.  When we need to certify a helicopter it flies with Safran, when we need to export airliners it flies with Safran.  Why do we keep teaming up with Safran if we are so self reliant?  They are the largest producer of helicopter engines in the world, tied for the largest producer of airliner engines.  To criticise them for making their first biz jet engine when P&W has dominated the market for so long?  We should be so lucky.  

    PD-14 is not a soviet engine and both the engine and the aircraft will be certified soon.
    The SaM 146 did not exist in soviet time and it is 50% Russian (and with all its problems it is much better than the D-436). Anyway PD-8 will replace it.

    PD-14 isn't certified, even China prefers old D-30s over PS-90A due to reliability issues, the hot section of SaM 146 is made by Safran.  If we want to get something internationally certified, we are always looking at France.  

    Sorry, Vlad, I don't fully understand your point. I agree that having lost access to the Zaporozhe engines has been a problem on the short and medium term. They were, however, only soviet legacy engines, never fully modernised and apart from the D27 that was never serially built there was no real new project that russia has lost the access to.

    Or am I missing some other modern aircraft engine from ukraine?

    I think the point is, for old products we were reliant on Ukraine and for new export products we are reliant on France. We have been placed in this position due to severe under investment in engine R&D. If we had achieved at least one new generation of products over the entire spectrum we would not be in the position with Motor Sich, and in order to get away from Safran we would need another generation after that.  The real money in aerospace isn't in fighters and attack helicopters, it is in commercial airliners and civil helicopters... this is where the French dominate.
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    Post  Isos on Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:26 am

    The real money in aerospace isn't in fighters and attack helicopters, it is in commercial airliners and civil helicopters... this is where the French dominate

    I have read a very good article on a french blog about russian tu-214 and variants.

    What it is says is that your aviation industry suffers of soviet union's way of doing things. You are not competitive because your planes and everything that comes with it were designed for soviet system. For exemple in western countries time is money so a broken part can be replaced quikly as airbus or boeing are very well organized to bring spare parts anywhere sothan an airplane can be repaired quickly. A plane parked on an international airport cost a lot of money.

    In soviet union that wasn't the case because the communists system wasn't costly to the main company which was aeroflot with almost no other ones. So they didn't need a huge organisation for their planes.

    So in 1991 russian airplanes were totally forgotten even by russians while in terms of technology il-96 or tu-214 were very good even better in some cases than western analogues.

    No surprise that russian airspace companies can't be competitive with western when even russian companies buy airbus and boeings instead russian made planes. They sell nothing so they have no money to invest.

    Anyway the joint ventures with safran are supposed the end in the next decade when the ms-21, ssj-100 and il-114 get their russian made engines. The follow on projects will be all 100% russian, well probably not 100% but engines should be.

    The engine for ssj-100 is also made at 50% by russia, and they should be now able to make it all by themselves. But clients don't trust russian engines that much. You already have difficulties selling it to foreign countries (and you corrupted companies that bankrupt every week and cancel orders don't help).

    France is also a better choice for russia. UK is too close to US and their sanctions would destroy even more you airspace industry if you partener up with them.
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    Post  miketheterrible on Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:12 am

    PD-14 got Russian certification

    https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/pd-14-engine-for-mc-21-secures-russian-certification-452842/
    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:24 am

    miketheterrible wrote:PD-14 got Russian certification

    https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/pd-14-engine-for-mc-21-secures-russian-certification-452842/

    They really need to get the PD-35 to market ASAP.
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    Gazputin

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    Post  Gazputin on Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:19 am

    the Achilles Heel of Russia … is not "stealth" etc
    it is powerplants …

    why do you think the "peaceful" "democratic" western powers staged a coup in Ukraine ? and Poland … Czech Republic
    seriously ...

    the most important part of the Russian aviation industry is …
    powerplants …. as the USSR outsourced small and large engine tech to those regions … trying to be truly egalitarian

    whereas the "democratic / egalitarian "west" keeps all core tech central … and farms out mindless component manufacture to its vassal states / colonies …. just ask Ukraine … they now "specialise" in sunflower seeds and wheat …. I bet the young Ukraine population are orgasming over such an "exciting democratic" future ….. colonies provide cheap raw materials and cheap labour …. end of story

    back to Russia …. the exact opposite …. but its pretty obvious to me all the brainpower from the Russian rocket engine complex
    will … or already is working on gas turbines ….

    my money say Russia will shock everyone …..
    as all "efficiency" relies of v.high core temperatures …. ie rocket tech

    not sunflower seeds … just a thought ….
    about the "egalitarian democratic west" ….

    but hey …. Odessa will be a great "holiday" destination ….


    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:58 am

    This is all just a normal part of nationalising things.

    During the cold war period the Soviets didn't make jet trainer aircraft and therefore didn't make their engines either, and most helicopter engines for light aircraft were not made in the soviet union either, while the ones they did make in the soviet union were made in what is now the Ukraine.

    The engines for attack helos like Mi-24/28 and Ka-50/52 and transport helos like Mi-8/17 were made in the Ukraine by Motor Sich... they might have been Klimov designs but that is where they were made... just like the Mi-2 was a Mil design but not made in Russia either.

    The point is that now that foreign countries are cutting off Russia from joint ventures, Russia needs to expand its own abilities and if it is clever and develops families of engines rather than just individual replacements then they can grow the family and expand their capacities too.

    They simply don't have the money to develop all the potential options right now... no one does, but if it is worth developing they should get around to making what they need, so foreign pressure to force them to accept American and western rule will fail again and the real result will be that other countries will have a genuine alternative to western products when they get pressured to conform to western business practises... you know... privatise anything that is profitable so big western companies can make big money while you labour laws don't protect your populations the way western laws do.

    why do you think the "peaceful" "democratic" western powers staged a coup in Ukraine ? and Poland … Czech Republic
    seriously ...

    the most important part of the Russian aviation industry is …
    powerplants …. as the USSR outsourced small and large engine tech to those regions … trying to be truly egalitarian

    And their downfall will be that they just wanted to destroy those sources of powerplants, they didn't want them for themselves so as they die or just wither, Russia can develop and put in to service replacement models that are probably rather better than the original because technology has moved on so you can update the design and materials while you are at it... the real punishment is the loss of those markets for Russian products, which Russia needs to actively seek out in the rest of the world well beyond her land borders...

    not sunflower seeds … just a thought ….
    about the "egalitarian democratic west" ….

    The west is not mad for fearing Russia... Russia has so much potential it scares them... and their pushing and poking the bear means when it reaches its potential it wont be friendly play pal... it will be rival and competition that feels it owes nothing to the west for its "upbringing".

    Vladimir79
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    Post  Vladimir79 on Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:03 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:PD-14 got Russian certification

    https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/pd-14-engine-for-mc-21-secures-russian-certification-452842/

    I was referring to internationally recognised certifications like EASA or FAA. The countries that recognise ours are only members of the CIS. With a market that limited it is DOA.
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:12 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:PD-14 got Russian certification

    https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/pd-14-engine-for-mc-21-secures-russian-certification-452842/

    I was referring to internationally recognised certifications like EASA or FAA.  The countries that recognise ours are only members of the CIS.  With a market that limited it is DOA.

    That isn't how it works.  The certification of EASA doesn't happen right off the bat.  It will happen once serial production starts, not prototypes.

    http://www.rusaviainsider.com/mc-21-narrowbody-sport-russian-pd-14-engines-2019/

    EASA certification of the PD-14 has already been launched, and is expected to be completed by the time the powerplant enters series production. As reported earlier, Russian certification of the PD-14-powered MC-21 is slated for 2021, whereas the baseline version, fitted with PW1400G powerplants, will be certified before the end of 2019.

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