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    Il-112V/114: News

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    jaguar_br

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    Re: Il-112V/114: News

    Post  jaguar_br on Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:40 am

    I definitely can't believe that designing a totally new aircraft is more interesting (technically and financially) than fixing the problems of the Il-112. If you wanna see a new plane taking-off, be prepared to wait at least 4 years, and doesn't seem that Russian Air Force has that much time...
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Il-112V/114: News

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:55 pm

    4 hrs ago on Tass. Wow so they plan to print it after ill2V programme is shut? They didn't read wargonzo or hat?! Suspect Suspect Suspect


    Ilyushin plans to master the printing of parts for IL-112V on a 3D printer

    Подробнее на ТАСС:
    http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5357805

    MOSCOW, July 9. / TASS /. The new military transport aircraft IL-112V in the future can get some simple details printed on a 3D printer. The journalists were told about this in the press service of the KLA's Transport Aviation Division.

    "Experts of PJSC Il and Voronezh Aviation Plant (VASO) printed a mock-up of an air intake of a complex design for installation on the first flight sample of a light military transport aircraft IL-112V while the details printed on the printer are only test samples, which before the first flight will be replaced by metal originals, but in plans - to master the print of constructively simple components that will be installed on the serial side, "- said in the firm Ilyushin.


    Now the seal will allow to quickly adjust the fixing points of the components of the hydraulic system of the aircraft, thereby speeding up the process of preparing the side for the first flight. At present, the installation of the layout for the aircraft began, noted in PJSC "IL".

    "Since the Il-112V is being built from scratch, many parts and components need to be refined during the aircraft installation, and we started using a 3D printer to understand how accurate or incorrect our calculations were.This technology allows us not to interrupt the finalization of finished products, which, in turn, significantly reduces the time for installation of equipment and makes the production process cheaper, "explained Pavel Cherenkov, First Deputy General Director of PJSC" Il ".

    About the plane

    Light military transport aircraft IL-112V with a maximum load of up to 5 tons is intended for the transport of personnel, military equipment, various types of weapons and other cargo. It is created to replace the turboprop An-26 and An-24. The first flight, tentatively, should take place before the end of 2018.

    It can be operated on small, small-equipped airfields that have both concrete and ground coverings of runways. The release is planned in two versions: for civil aviation (Il-112T) and military transport aviation (Il-112V). Earlier it was reported that the military intends to order 62 cars, then former Deputy Defense Minister Yury Borisov said that the military department plans to acquire at least 100 such aircraft, since the need for them is very high.

    Подробнее на ТАСС:
    http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5357805





    jaguar_br wrote:I definitely can't believe that designing a totally new aircraft is more interesting (technically and financially) than fixing the problems of the Il-112. If you wanna see a new plane taking-off, be prepared to wait at least 4 years, and doesn't seem that Russian Air Force has that much time...

    c'mon you cannot believe war-gonzo unless you believe in tooth-fairy lol1 lol1 lol1

    hoom

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    Re: Il-112V/114: News

    Post  hoom on Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:44 am

    Yandex Translate wrote:It is noted that he came to the company, the problems found in the design of the aircraft: thus, the allowable overload experienced model instead of the normal tolerances of up to 10% is almost 40%, i.e. about 3 tons.
    I'm confused about whats being said here Suspect
    Is it overweight by 3tons? Shocked
    For a plane with designed 5ton cargo capacity that would be a huge problem & I could understand the program facing cancellation if thats the case.
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    kvs

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    Re: Il-112V/114: News

    Post  kvs on Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:52 am

    Отмечается также, что решение о прекращении проекта Ил-112 может грозить кадровыми решениями, в том числе под угрозой якобы оказывается руководитель «Ил» Алексей Рогозин.

    Отмечается, что именно он, придя в компанию, обнаружил проблемы в конструировании самолета: так, допустимый перегруз опытной модели вместо нормальных допусков до 10% составляет почти 40%, то есть порядка 3 тонн.

    Между тем, 22 июня Рогозин заявил, что серийное производство самолетов Ил-96 и Ил-112В на Воронежском авиазаводе начнется в 2020 году.

    Translation:

    It is noted that the decision on the termination of the IL-112 project threatens to include personnel decisions, included in the number
    under threat supposedly is the director of IL, Alexey Rogozin.

    It is noted that it is specifically he (Rogozin), upon arrival at the company, who discovered problems with construction of the plane:
    specifically, the allowed overload of the prototype model instead of being the normal 10% involves almost 40%, that is around 3 tons.

    In all this, Rogozin announced on June 22, that serial production of IL-96 and IL-112B at the Voronezh aircraft plant will start in
    2020.

    WarGonzo is pimping inconsistent BS.   So Rogozin will be fired for revealing the design flaw?   Not bloody likely.   His job is to clean house
    and he is Putin's personal head chopper.   Rogozin will be doing all the firing.

    The second paragraph is incoherent babble, in Russian.   No translator can fix it.   It is not actually identifying any defect.   And
    it does not make any sense as a statement of payload plus fuel.   Russia is not a banana republic and no aircraft maker will claim payload
    beyond the tolerances of the airframe.   That just guarantees crashes and the cessation of production.   Aircraft construction is not fly
    by night.   Money is recovered over many years of production.  

    The 3rd paragraph basically states that production of the IL-112B will start in 2020.   So what cancellation are they yammering on about?
    The civilian variant IL-112T was never going to be the first priority.   And why would the Russian military buy a defective POS?  Especially
    after Rogozin exposed the defect?  There would be no point talking about any defect at all otherwise.
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    Hole

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    Re: Il-112V/114: News

    Post  Hole on Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:46 am

    As the programme started the Il-112V should have been able to carry 6 tons of cargo by an TOW of 19,7 tons. Do to the engine (TV7-117ST) not being strong enough the payload was reduced to 5 tons. With a new engine, now under development, this problem will be solved. They will produce the plane with the old engine and later change to the new one.
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    kvs

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    Re: Il-112V/114: News

    Post  kvs on Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:04 am

    Hole wrote:As the programme started the Il-112V should have been able to carry 6 tons of cargo by an TOW of 19,7 tons. Do to the engine (TV7-117ST) not being strong enough the payload was reduced to 5 tons. With a new engine, now under development, this problem will be solved. They will produce the plane with the old engine and later change to the new one.

    That is clearly not a design defect. Hence all the obfuscation by WarGonzo.
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    George1

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    Re: Il-112V/114: News

    Post  George1 on Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:59 am

    Statements by Alexey Rogozin on the status of the Il-112V program

    rector of PJSC "Ilyushin" Alexei Rogozin about the current state of the IL-112V light military transport aircraft turned into a regular aviation long-term program. As you can judge, the conversation took place on August 12, 2108. The presentation contains a number of interesting statements.


    The first flight prototype of the Il-112V military transport aircraft (serial number 01-01) to the final assembly shop of the PJSC "Voronezh Joint-Stock Aircraft Building Society" (VASO), March 2018 (c) PJSC "Ilyushin"

    In the light of the publications in the media about the possible closure of the Il-112V project, which caused excitement among the band members and even wider, in RuNet, we tried to find out what is happening with this plane now. The group's administrator Alexei Polyakov managed to meet with the general director of PJSC "IL" Alexei Rogozin to clarify the situation. The meeting took place in the workshop number 7 of the Voronezh aircraft plant. Alexei Dmitrievich even personally had a small tour of the plane. Small, because even on Sunday the pilot and cargo cockpits of the plane were filled with people engaged in working out and debugging various on-board systems.

    Judging by the schedule, the first take-off is planned for the fall. Delaying the construction has several reasons. This is the repeated breakdowns in the delivery of components, and the problems that arise from the assembly of a prototype at a serial plant. And another thought was expressed by the general director of the Ilyushinskaya firm: "This is a completely new aircraft. Of course, in the course of its production, the real state of the entire aviation industry is reflected. "

    During our communication, Alexey Rogozin commented on the information on the Internet that the overload of an experimental aircraft was 40%: "The technique of such calculation is surprising. There is overload, but much less. At the moment the measures have been developed, we are taking quite active actions aimed at reducing the weight to the set values, and I am sure that we will fulfill the task set. " Next to the first experienced aircraft is the second, designed for resource and static testing.

    The necessary resource and static tests have been completed, and further ones are important only for serial operation and are not taken into account in the near future, "explained Alexey Rogozin.

    Also, the general director of PJSC "IL" expressed confidence that the third and fourth aircraft (the first serial) will be laid at the Voronezh aircraft plant in the next 2-3 months.
    A response was received to the question that tormented many in our community: why, in the technical task approved by the customer, the maximum load capacity was reduced from 6 to 5 tons? The answer is simple and sad - there are not enough powerful engines for this.

    Summarizing the above, it can be concluded that the design of the Il-112 is much closer to its final implementation than to the closure.

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3305997.html

    hoom

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    Re: Il-112V/114: News

    Post  hoom on Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:42 am

    Confirms it is overweight but nothing like 3ton.
    I wonder if the explanation might be its actually 14% overweight (overweight by 40% of the allowable 10% rather than 40% of total weight)? Bad still but not necessarily fatal to the program.
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    LMFS

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    Re: Il-112V/114: News

    Post  LMFS on Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:10 pm

    hoom wrote:Confirms it is overweight but nothing like 3ton.
    I wonder if the explanation might be its actually 14% overweight (overweight by 40% of the allowable 10% rather than 40% of total weight)? Bad still but not necessarily fatal to the program.

    They in fact say they are going to correct it
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    Hole

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    Re: Il-112V/114: News

    Post  Hole on Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:25 pm

    The engine is the problem. The current one doesn´t bring enough power. So they must reduce the payload. A new enige is in the making, but is a version of the PD-14, so they must wait until this is ready for service.

    hoom

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    Re: Il-112V/114: News

    Post  hoom on Sat Oct 06, 2018 4:30 am

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3367415.html
    after the completion of successful frequency tests, the first Il-112V sample will be transmitted to the flight station of the Voronezh Aviation Plant (VASO) to prepare for the first flight. The plane should take to the air in October-November 2018

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    George1

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    Re: Il-112V/114: News

    Post  George1 on Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:49 pm

    In a press release from the Ministry of Defense, it is reported that “special attention was paid to the implementation of development work on the creation of an Il-112V light military transport aircraft.

    Aircraft of this class are designed to replace the An-26, whose service life is coming to an end. Eighty percent of these machines will be decommissioned until 2030.

    “The renewal of the fleet of military transport aviation should be carried out in strict accordance with the state contract,” said Sergei Shoigu, saying that a number of questions are currently open regarding the time frame for the manufacture of the aircraft and its mass.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Il-112V/114: News

    Post  GarryB on Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:01 am

    Aircraft of this class are designed to replace the An-26, whose service life is coming to an end. Eighty percent of these machines will be decommissioned until 2030.

    I would expect if the Il-112V and the Il-114 are successful in Russian military service they will replace the An-26s rather quicker than that... there is a drive to remove old Soviet equipment from service and this is one way to do that relatively quickly... those antonovs did a good job but they are getting long in the tooth now and need to be replaced... there is no need to wait until their airframes expire... they could sell them off to some African country that currently uses them along with their spares and support equipment for money to pay for new aircraft...

    (Note the name of the military aircraft will be shown as Il-112B but only because the B has not been translated properly from Cyrillic to the correct V.)

    wilhelm

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    Re: Il-112V/114: News

    Post  wilhelm on Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:59 pm

    Any news on the 112?
    Photos from the beginning of October showed a basically almost completed airframe with engines and propellors installed.
    Its official rolling out ceremony was due "at the end of October".

    slasher

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    Re: Il-112V/114: News

    Post  slasher on Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:46 pm

    Bad news according to this article. Google translated headline:

    Fatal defects: Voronezh aircraft builders from VASO fail the state, disrupting the take-off dates of the Il-112V military transport aircraft
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Il-112V/114: News

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:07 pm

    slasher wrote:Bad news according to this article. Google translated headline:

    Fatal defects: Voronezh aircraft builders from VASO fail the state, disrupting the take-off dates of the Il-112V military transport aircraft

    Trampoline Man and his relatives never fail to disappoint lol1
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    GarryB

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    Re: Il-112V/114: News

    Post  GarryB on Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:53 am

    [sarcasm mode]No, you are right PD... it is vastly more important to meet deadlines made public than it is to make sure the damn thing is safe and complete and ready for its first flight... I mean these things don't have ejection seats, so I am sure the testing crew and other people on board on the first flight will understand and gladly give their lives just so a stupid deadline pulled from some ones ass is met... I mean that is the critical thing in developing aircraft and other products... some idiot makes a claim it will be ready by fall then it damn well had better be ready even if people have to die for it...[/sarcasm mode]

    Or it just might be an issue with certain suppliers that have delayed things so it will take a little longer than expected... they have talked about production in 2020, and I assume preparations for that production date are still going forward, though their might be a small delay there too.... it really isn't that big a deal... it will only become a problem if in 2030 it still hasn't started production and 80% of An-26s are retired and the rest are struggling to do their jobs.

    BTW Slasher... interesting article with that picture of a twin jet aircraft that appears to be landing in a severe cross wind... except the Il-112V is not a jet... perhaps that sets the tone for the article... maybe a shot of the Hindenburg burning might have been their second choice... which suggests they writer of the article is not really too concerned with facts or reality...

    The article itself claims the nose is too light... which is the opposite of what normally happens because you need all sorts of things in the nose like radar and crew and avionics, whereas you really don't need that much in the tail except the tail structure...

    It claims the solution is a 5 ton ballast mass in the nose for balance... which is bullshit... there is no way the balance could be that far off with a plane this size and weight... one ton, maybe, but five tons is too large a fraction of the entire weight of the aircraft.

    A normal solution for such a design flaw would be moving the wing forward a few metres... but I doubt there is such a problem to begin with until I hear it from someone more trustworthy.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Il-112V/114: News

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:43 am

    @"GarryB" [sarcasm mode] - agreed

    @PD - well did you have a chance to check article? If problem with center of gravity is real, if, then Il was designed how many years ago? how it can be evidence of Rogozins fault?!



    @GB

    as for article: journo is clearly a drama queen. "astronomical budget resources invested" 1,3 bln Rub (~$20mln), or 5ton plate provided by his "unnamed sources". Well source might have been communicating with journo from /dev/null address. I agree lets wait for any offcial news. to any official news.

    If center of gravity location is fucked then when it started? how it could not be recognized on earlier stages? anyway, In worst case aircraft can be redesigned. Not first no last time.


    hoom

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    Re: Il-112V/114: News

    Post  hoom on Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:51 pm

    It claims the solution is a 5 ton ballast mass in the nose for balance... which is bullshit... there is no way the balance could be that far off with a plane this size and weight... one ton, maybe, but five tons is too large a fraction of the entire weight of the aircraft.
    Shades of An-178 https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1028445

    But 5 tons of ballast on a plane supposed to have 6ton payload? Surely can't be real.
    Or someone really really censored up and the person who was supposed to check that guys work also censored up, also the review guys censored up
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    flamming_python

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    Re: Il-112V/114: News

    Post  flamming_python on Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:47 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    slasher wrote:Bad news according to this article. Google translated headline:

    Fatal defects: Voronezh aircraft builders from VASO fail the state, disrupting the take-off dates of the Il-112V military transport aircraft

    Trampoline Man and his relatives never fail to disappoint lol1

    Trampoline Man needs to be trampolined into a black hole.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Il-112V/114: News

    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:54 pm

    First off, is there any other source?

    Second, this project was before rogozin. Add to that, he isn't an engineer or designer. So it was the fault of those desigining and creating it. Lastly, we need actual confirmation.

    Too bad take-off magazine seems to be no more. Maybe then we would have some more concrete evidence or words.

    A lot of talk is happening of projects that there is little word about. And from unknown sources. We take them at face value but not of those from officials and people in the know.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Il-112V/114: News

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:21 pm

    flamming_python wrote:

    Trampoline Man needs to be trampolined into a black hole.

    leave Barrack alone!!!
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    GarryB

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    Re: Il-112V/114: News

    Post  GarryB on Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:11 am

    And from unknown sources. We take them at face value but not of those from officials and people in the know.

    For all we know the unknown sources could be Bellingcat...

    If the source is too afraid to be named then they are not worth listening to.

    And while it is true that the An-178 had problems as well, this time it is a Russian aircraft that is worth spending the money to make work.

    I mean both the Il-112 and Il-114 are existing aircraft types so it is not like they are a clean sheet of paper design that might have some serious fundamental problems... any issue is only from the updating of the design to digital and new modern materials... and of course new engine options.

    hoom

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    Re: Il-112V/114: News

    Post  hoom on Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:49 am

    And while it is true that the An-178 had problems as well, this time it is a Russian aircraft
    Not trying to imply An-178 is Russian but it is a similar issue in the post-Soviet space, possible that similar Soviet inherited design method/tools could create similar issue on a Russian plane.

    I just can't understand how it would be possible to censored up that badly.

    Its not like Il-112 has a huge chunky tail


    If anything the tail looks like it should be relatively lighter than An-26 tail
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    GarryB

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    Re: Il-112V/114: News

    Post  GarryB on Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:24 am

    The very first prototypes of the Flanker had to be redesigned because instead of being whatever percent superior to F-15s they were that percentage inferior.

    For example they designed the F-16 to have a 30 percent superiority in various areas over the MiG-21 in terms of roll rate and turning speed and other aspects... except top speed of course.

    The point is that when you find the mistake you fix it and then change the prototype... there is no point in making a prototype based on faulty design plans... even if a five ton ballast weight will enable it to fly WTF is the point... anything you could possibly learn about its flight characteristics will be useless when the design is changed to make it work without the ballast.

    It makes more sense to fix the design first... which might mean changing the range of angles the horizontal tail surface moves, or shifting the main wing forward or backwards, or shifting around a few internal fuel tanks, or moving avionics boxes or combinations of all of these things... and perhaps increasing the size and area of control surfaces...

    It is easier to do now than during serial production...

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