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    Egyptian Air Force (EAF)

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:58 pm

    If you want a nightmare check India xD

    The real irony is that we talk about the Egyptian Air Force and its diversity and the Indian Air Force and its diversity and how that leads to complications and extra cost... the whole purpose of the F-35 was to reduce the different types of fighter aircraft deployed in NATO... simplification and standardisation to make things cheaper and simpler... and lets be honest... that has not really worked out very well either.

    Having an all Flanker fleet or an all Fulcrum fleet for Russia would reduce performance in some areas and not really make many huge savings at all...

    In theory there are savings to be made in simplifications and unifications of roles to one aircraft, but if that aircraft is faulty and has hundreds of unresolved flaws it can actually make things worse and much more expensive too.

    Careful what you wish for.

    Perhaps Russia should develop a stealthy subsonic cruise missile they can sell to Egypt... it will make those MiGs more valuable to them and more capable.
    ahmedfire
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    Post  ahmedfire on Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:15 am

    Egypt airforce carry out huge military exercises in all strategic positions .



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    ahmedfire
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    Post  ahmedfire on Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:19 am

    Upgraded  Mig29 is protecting AWACS and work as a mini tanker .

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    Post  Viktor on Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:05 am

    Egypt has "diversified" its armed forces more than most countries has by buying arms left and right still it seems that it manages to keep them all in operating order thumbsup
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    Post  Isos on Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:13 am

    Viktor wrote:Egypt has "diversified" its armed forces more than most countries has by buying arms left and right still it seems that it manages to keep them all in operating order thumbsup

    Mig and rafales are new. The real problems will appear in 5 or 6 years.

    Those planes were financed by saudi arabia. Egypt is poor and won't have money to keep all of them serviceable. Maybe will put f-16 in reserve as they are the oldest and relations with US are not very good.

    Good to see that after trusting US in camp david talks and switching from USSR to US they end up with another dictator and totally poor. Now they turn their eyes on Russia again. But they won't learn the lesson.
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    Post  Isos on Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:16 am

    Many of us would love to knwo what their pilot think about each of the three and how they fair in combat each against the others.

    The only country that can really compare them. And soon they will get su-35.
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    Post  ahmedfire on Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:53 am

    Mig and rafales are new. The real problems will appear in 5 or 6 years.

    Egypt since 1973 war is upgrading her army , expecting any time conflict with israel .

    As long as israel is there, Egypt army will be well armed and well trained ,it makes sense ,every country seeks for her security .


    Those planes were financed by saudi arabia

    Wrong , you think KSA will buy for Egypt ,Antey-2500 , Rafale, Mig-29, KA-52 , Mi-24 ,transporters ..Etc ??

    the only report about KSA money is about the Mistral ,and this was about the tensions between KSA and Russia in Syria file so KSA told france ok we have a buyer for you guys , don't give it to Russia .

    Egypt is poor and won't have money to keep all of them serviceable. Maybe will put f-16 in reserve as they are the oldest and relations with US are not very good.

    Before that scene ,Egypt has F-16 , Mirage 2000 , Mirage-5 ,Mig-21 and some chineese Fs .

    Rafale will replace Mirage and Mig-29 will replace Mig-21 and add some capabilties to naval forces ,so what is the big deal here ?? ,do you think Egypt will purchase weapons for fun inspite it's not wealth country as you said ?!

    Good to see that after trusting US in camp david talks and switching from USSR to US they end up with another dictator and totally poor. Now they turn their eyes on Russia again. But they won't learn the lesson.

    Camp david was a peace treatment after war , it's normal at the end of any war ,isn't it ? . Egypt go for war and enforced israel to come to the table and Sinai is back ,so it's good to play a game of war and negotiations to take your lands back ,it's not a trust in USA , it's a game . Very Happy
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    Post  Viktor on Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:36 pm

    Su-35 range will mean Egypt can place them on the airfield far behind that could provide ample of warning time in case of Israel sudden attack and protected with air defense systems.

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    Post  ahmedfire on Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:06 pm

    Viktor wrote:Su-35 range will mean Egypt can place them on the airfield far behind that could provide ample of warning time in case of Israel sudden attack and protected with air defense systems.


    Yes and hunting their AWACS , also will be very helpful if Egypt went for war with Ethiopia over the water issue .
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    Post  GarryB on Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:35 pm

    Rafale will replace Mirage and Mig-29 will replace Mig-21

    Which is pretty much what India was going to do and then didn't except they seemed to want a single medium fighter to replace all MiG-21 and Jaguar and MiG-27 and the M2K, but they picked the Rafale to replace all of them and it was never going to work it is just too expensive and overkill for most roles...

    They should have just bought Rafale to replace the Jaguar and M2k for which it would have been excellent, and the MiG-29M2 for the MiG-21 interceptor roles and the MiG-35 to replace the MiG-21 in important interception duties and also short range strike to replace the MiG-27... the MiG-27K and MiG-27M were not cheap aircraft for their time but were quite capable, while the MiG-29M2 is basically a MiG-35 shell with cheaper filling that is still rather capable it is certainly more capable than anything you could upgrade a MiG-21 into... though not as cheap as a base MiG-21 it wont cost much more than a fully upgraded MiG-21 but has plenty of scope to be upgraded to MiG-35 level...

    Yes and hunting their AWACS , also will be very helpful if Egypt went for war with Ethiopia over the water issue .

    Well the photo of an R-37M (RVV-BD) under the wing of an Su-35 will be rather significant in terms of hunting AWACS aircraft as well as inflight refuelling tankers and transports...
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    Post  TheArmenian on Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:19 pm

    Hey,
    When did Egypt get these Mi-24 gunships?
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    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:00 am

    TheArmenian wrote:Hey,
    When did Egypt get these Mi-24 gunships?


    The first time we heard of them was in march 2018 on twitter.

    It is a secret contract. No one really knows from where they come.
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    Post  ahmedfire on Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:46 am

    GarryB wrote:
    Rafale will replace Mirage and Mig-29 will replace Mig-21

    Which is pretty much what India was going to do and then didn't except they seemed to want a single medium fighter to replace all MiG-21 and Jaguar and MiG-27 and the M2K, but they picked the Rafale to replace all of them and it was never going to work it is just too expensive and overkill for most roles...

    They should have just bought Rafale to replace the Jaguar and M2k for which it would have been excellent, and the MiG-29M2 for the MiG-21 interceptor roles and the MiG-35 to replace the MiG-21 in important interception duties and also short range strike to replace the MiG-27... the MiG-27K and MiG-27M were not cheap aircraft for their time but were quite capable, while the MiG-29M2 is basically a MiG-35 shell with cheaper filling that is still rather capable it is certainly more capable than anything you could upgrade a MiG-21 into... though not as cheap as a base MiG-21 it wont cost much more than a fully upgraded MiG-21 but has plenty of scope to be upgraded to MiG-35 level...

    Yes and hunting their AWACS , also will be very helpful if Egypt went for war with Ethiopia over the water issue .

    Well the photo of an R-37M (RVV-BD) under the wing of an Su-35 will be rather significant in terms of hunting AWACS aircraft as well as inflight refuelling tankers and transports...

    BVR missiles on MIG and Rafale are an advantage for EAF because till now the US is refusing to sell AIM-120 to Egypt for F-16 fleet ,for israel security  which requires more connection between air force and air defence and put more roles on them .


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    Post  ahmedfire on Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:57 am

    TheArmenian wrote:Hey,
    When did Egypt get these Mi-24 gunships?
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    We heared news in 2018 ,not official .

    I was surprised too that the deal is done , i remember that this happened before with TOR-M2

    Also Egypt start receiving Antey-2500 in 2017 but till now we didn't see a deployment photo for it .

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    George1
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    Post  George1 on Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:38 am

    ahmedfire wrote:

    Upgraded  Mig29 is protecting AWACS and work as a mini tanker .


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    they aren't upgraded mig-29s, they are new ordered MiG-29M/M2

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    Post  ultimatewarrior on Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:19 am

    F-16 crashed. Pilot killed.

    https://twitter.com/EmirLouise/status/1217100937015242752
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    Post  Isos on Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:31 am

    ultimatewarrior wrote:F-16 crashed. Pilot killed.

    https://twitter.com/EmirLouise/status/1217100937015242752

    F-16.
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    Post  ahmedfire on Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:19 am

    they aren't upgraded mig-29s, they are new ordered MiG-29M/M2

    The below one is upgraded MIG-29 i guess

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    but below one is for Mig-29M/M2

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    Post  jhelb on Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:56 am

    GarryB wrote: and the MiG-35 to replace the MiG-21 in important interception duties and also short range strike to replace the MiG-27

    I read that India has placed orders with Russia for 21 brand new Mig 29s( that means MiG-29M/M2, isn't it?) . Since India will fly the Mig 29s for the next 10 years at least Russia can sell the Mig 35 incrementally as technological enhancements instead of selling the entire package/aircraft

    So they can upgrade the engines of the Mig 29 with that of the Mig 35, then do the same for the sensors and weapons package. Eventually within 10 years the Indian Mig 29s will essentially be Mig 35s.
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    Post  Isos on Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:35 pm

    jhelb wrote:
    GarryB wrote: and the MiG-35 to replace the MiG-21 in important interception duties and also short range strike to replace the MiG-27

    I read that India has placed orders with Russia for 21 brand new Mig 29s( that means MiG-29M/M2, isn't it?) . Since India will fly the Mig 29s for the next 10 years at least Russia can sell the Mig 35 incrementally as technological enhancements instead of selling the entire package/aircraft

    So they can upgrade the engines of the Mig 29 with that of the Mig 35, then do the same for the sensors and weapons package. Eventually within 10 years the Indian Mig 29s will essentially be Mig 35s.

    No. India bought already build mig-29 and asked russia to upgrade them to indian UPG standard.

    Indian migs have nothing to do with mig 35. Replacing only the engines is also expensive. An engine is around 4-5 million $. 2 engines per jet and they have almost 100 jets that means 1 billion $ only to buy them. Then they need to train their ground crew and buy spare parts bringing the total cost to almost 2 billion $.

    Radar is not cheaper and will add another multibillion $ investment to do so.

    Better buy mig-35 and phase out mig-29 when times come.
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    Post  jhelb on Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:07 am

    Isos wrote:No. India bought already build mig-29 and asked russia to upgrade them to indian UPG standard.

    The ones Hindus are purchasing now seems to be Mig 29M/M2

    Isos wrote:Indian migs have nothing to do with mig 35. Replacing only the engines is also expensive. An engine is around 4-5 million $. 2 engines per jet and they have almost 100 jets that means 1 billion $ only to buy them. Then they need to train their ground crew and buy spare parts bringing the total cost to almost 2 billion $.

    That can't be true. A variant of Klimov RD-33 powers both the Mig-35 and Mig29UPG. Even for their Su 30MKI they are now replacing it with the Su 35 engines under the Super Sukhoi Program

    MiG 29UPG is fitted with N010M Zhuk ME Radar but then IAF plans to equip the MiG 29 with Zhuk AE AESA Radar.

    How is training for Mig 35 radically different from training on Mig 29UPG ?

    Which spare parts are you talking about?

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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:46 am

    I thought India was buying both some newly built mig29m/m2 and a set of mig29 built 30 years ago but never used that would be modernized to the UPG standard (indian version of the russian mig29SMT.
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    Post  Isos on Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:59 am

    Indians have no other order for mig than the 21 they bought after the conflict with Pakistan when they lost a mig-21.

    Those are all old models already build that will be upgraded to UPG. There is no M/M2 variants being bought by India.

    That can't be true. A variant of Klimov RD-33 powers both the Mig-35 and Mig29UPG.

    That can't be true. A variant of Klimov RD-33 powers both the Mig-35 and Mig29UPG. Even for their Su 30MKI they are now replacing it with the Su 35 engines under the Super Sukhoi Program

    Indians already have engines for their migs.  Mig35 uses a newer version. If india wants to upgrade them with mig35 engines and avionics they will need to buy those engines and radars which are expensive.

    The Super sukhoi program has not yet started and the official number is for something like 120 jets out of the total ~300 mki they have. Those upgrades are very expensive. You can't just switch the engines and the radar and make it work.

    Which spare parts are you talking about?

    Plane's engines need many spare parts to be changed often when used. Right now india has spare parts for its engines but if they go for mig-35's engines they will need new spare parts so it will increase cost.

    MiG 29UPG is fitted with N010M Zhuk ME Radar but then IAF plans to equip the MiG 29 with Zhuk AE AESA Radar.

    Do you have any source for such claim. I don't remember reading about a program to upgrade mig-29 to mig-35.

    How is training for Mig 35 radically different from training on Mig 29UPG ?

    I said ground crew should be trained. Maintenance is not the same since mig35 uses a newer engine so the ground crew should be teached avout maintaining this new engine which makes the upgrade more costly.

    Also mig-35 uses fly by wire contrary to mig 29. Another point about which the maintenance crew should be teached.
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    Post  jhelb on Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:31 am

    Isos wrote: Those are all old models already build that will be upgraded to UPG. There is no M/M2 variants being bought by India.

    No, not old models. New Mig 29s that were never assembled, leave alone flown.


    Isos wrote:Do you have any source for such claim. I don't remember reading about a program to upgrade mig-29 to mig-35.

    https://www.defenseworld.net/feature/22/Upgraded_MiG_29_to_take_on_F_16_in_the_Refurbished_Fighter_Jet_Market#.XiBxziPhVPY

    In 2007, the MiG-29 fleet of the IAF was put through a comprehensive upgrade by Russia at a cost of $865 Million. Besides new avionics kits, the upgrade involves the replacement of its outdated N019 Topaz air-intercept radar with a new Zhuk -AME Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar with a range of 160km.

    https://www.indiastrategic.in/2019/07/10/iaf-to-buy-upgraded-mig-29s-from-russia/

    I never said Mig 29s are being upgraded to Mig 35s. Just said that Mig 29s are getting Zuk AESA radars.

    Isos wrote:The Super sukhoi program has not yet started and the official number is for something like 120 jets out of the total ~300 mki they have. Those upgrades are very expensive. You can't just switch the engines and the radar and make it work.

    Upgrades maybe expensive but they are doing it in any case. Engines, radars, sensors are all being upgraded. The Su 30MKI that IAF flies is itself an upgrade model. Indians had initially purchased Su 30.
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    Post  Isos on Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:13 am

    No, not old models. New Mig 29s that were never assembled, leave alone flown.

    Old models. They were build in the late 80s. 30 years ago. Never assembled and flown but still old.

    And theyvare going to be upgraded to UPG standard like other indian mig-29s.

    I never said Mig 29s are being upgraded to Mig 35s. Just said that Mig 29s are getting Zuk AESA radars.

    Your source is from 2007. They never got aesa radar and the upgrade was made to UPG stabdard. They won't get AEA any time soon. Su-30MKI have the priority and not all of them will be upgraded.

    And they don't need any upgrade as their mig-29 are used for air defence/interception.


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