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    Russian Spetsnaz Forces Thread

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    Post  Austin on Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:07 pm

    I had few queries on Russian Special Forces and thought we need to start a thread on this topic to document Russian SF operation , I have been looking at couple of videos and photos on Military Photos Forum but had many questions to start with.

    1 ) What are the different types of Special Forces that exist in Russia for eg under Military ( Navy/Sea/Air ) , Paramilitary , SVR/FSB ?

    2 ) Which is the most elitist of Special Forces in Russia for e.g in US its Navy Seal , India MARCOS etc

    3 ) What are the kind of training and small arms they have and use in their inventory ?
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    Post  NationalRus on Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:51 pm

    1.Army has Speznas, VDV & SOBR don't exist anymore Special Battalions Vostok and Zapad were disbandend 2008 from kadyrov, FSB & MVD have Alpha Group, Vityaz (MVD) and Militzija have OMON

    2.i say Alpha Group, for Counter-terrorism and Urban-warfare the are the best second would be Vityaz

    3.Alpha Group use all Russian Weapons that it wants including it can use weaster Weapons too like Arctic Warfare Sniper rifle from the UK
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    Post  Vladimir79 on Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:29 am

    Austin wrote:I had few queries on Russian Special Forces and thought we need to start a thread on this topic to document Russian SF operation , I have been looking at couple of videos and photos on Military Photos Forum but had many questions to start with.

    1 ) What are the different types of Special Forces that exist in Russia for eg under Military ( Navy/Sea/Air ) , Paramilitary , SVR/FSB ?

    Each branch has their own special units called Spetsnaz. It means "special purpose."

    2 ) Which is the most elitist of Special Forces in Russia for e.g in US its Navy Seal , India MARCOS etc

    GRU Spetsnaz are considered the elite of the elite like Navy Seals. VDV Spestnaz are like Green Berets. Alpha is the elite counter terror group. GRU Spetsnaz mostly come from VDV as that is the most elite branch of service and training is done at Ryzan alongside VDV.

    3 ) What are the kind of training and small arms they have and use in their inventory ?

    AK74 SU
    30mm Tishma Suppressed Grenade Launcher 4 attachment
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    AK101-AK108
    SVD
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    P11 Underwater Pistol
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    Hand-to-hand is at the discretion of the combat instructor but must teach several forms of combat. Mine was mostly judo with some systema.
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    Post  Austin on Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:53 am

    Thanks for all the reply.

    Some more questions

    1 ) Do the Spetsnaz forces have good communication equipment , I mean as good as their western SF or do they lag compared to Western SF
    2 ) Do Russian SF train with their foreign counterpart ? I know for a fact that Indian SF train with SF of US and Israel , never heard them training with Russian SF ever.
    3 ) Any recent SF operations where elite Russian Special Forces have participated ?

    Vladimir79 are you by any chance an ex Russian Defence Personal or SF personal ?

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    Post  ekacipta021292 on Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:40 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:GRU Spetsnaz mostly come from VDV as that is the most elite branch of service and training is done at Ryzan alongside VDV.

    O.o Seriously? GRU personnels are trained at Ryazan? How about the 45th Recon. division? Is that considered 'Spetsnaz GRU'?
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:57 am

    Through much of the cold war the GRU Spetsnaz hid within VDV facilities.
    Naval Spetsnaz did much the same with Soviet Naval Infantry (marines) units.

    There was for a time a rumour that if you saw a VDV soldier that didn't have a "guards" badge then they were Spetsnaz. This was supposedly because all the VDV units earned the Guards title (earned in combat) and the Spetsnaz units weren't publicly acknowledged let alone mentioned in Guards honours lists.

    I would imagine a few VDV personnel that hadn't sewn their Guards badges into their berets got a few funny looks from western military "expert" visitors.
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    Post  Vladimir79 on Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:10 am

    45 PFU is VDV Spetsnaz. It is not a GRU unit.
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    Post  Robert.V on Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:59 pm

    There is no such thing as VDV spetsnaz. You're thinking of VDV recon which are even better trained VDV men. Or perhaps you're thinking of Guards status.

    In this case the 45 ORP VDV Regiment is a recon Regiment which since 2005 was awarded a Gaurds status.

    VDV had Regimentel recon companies since Soviet times.

    Anyway, the GRU Army and Navy spetsnaz weren't hidden just in VDV and the Navel infantry, they were also hidden among the border guards, Signal Troops and OB PDSS and DShV.

    As far as GRU spetsnaz they are lot older then people think they were, they were formed in the 50's ...exact time I don't remember. but their roots go back all the way to the Spanish civil war. and the navel GRU to the second WW.


    And their not really comparable to Delta and/or SAS at all. Nor were thy modeled after them ..since technically spetsnaz GRU is a lot older as I mentioned above.

    The GRU spetsnaz is a lot closer to German "Brandenburg", and certain jaeger units which I would say ( and they themselfs would) that they took many things from ..but also had already experience from the deep recon and sabotage missions during WWII and special operations during Spanish civill war like i mentioned.


    GRU Spetsnaz mostly come from VDV as that is the most elite branch of service and training is done at Ryzan alongside VDV.


    Not during the soviet times. The GRU spetsnaz were taken from variety of pools in the armed force's.




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    Post  nightcrawler on Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:56 pm

    I have seen the nuclear secrets documentary (it was a 5cd set) in which a Soviet spy used to traffick nuclear secrets out of Manhattan US into the Soviet intelligence hands who then transported it into Soviet Union; was those were Spetsnaz people or KGB??
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    Post  Robert.V on Thu Nov 11, 2010 3:29 pm

    Those were GRU or KGB agents/spies. In this case KGB agents/spies.


    Like I said think of GRU Spetsnaz as a German "Brandenburg" at it's hight and obviosly the GRU spetsnaz would have been assited by GRU agents/spies.
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:14 am

    There is no such thing as VDV spetsnaz. You're thinking of VDV recon which are even better trained VDV men. Or perhaps you're thinking of Guards status.

    Technically VDV Spetsnaz would be translated into English as "Special Purpose VDV subunit of VDV forces".
    A subunit of the VDV used for recon is therefore by definition VDV Spetsnaz...

    The GRU is rather more than just Spetsnaz, so to separate the linguists and aerial map readers and other personel within the GRU (or Army Intelligence) from the guys that we are talking about we talk about GRU Spetsnaz, which is a group within the GRU that have a different role from others within the GRU.

    BTW 10 points for balls at telling the former VDV Spetsnaz soldier that runs this forum that VDV Spetsnaz doesn't exist Rob thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup
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    Post  Vladimir79 on Fri Nov 12, 2010 5:41 am

    Robert.V wrote:There is no such thing as VDV spetsnaz. You're thinking of VDV recon which are even better trained VDV men. Or perhaps you're thinking of Guards status.


    VDV recon is Spetznaz. Red Banner Guards is just an honour bestowed on a unit for valour in combat. The designation can be left over from the Great Patriotic War, whether the unit is still elite or not. There are many Guards units that were reorganised after the war that still retain guards title even if not earned.


    Anyway, the GRU Army and Navy spetsnaz weren't hidden just in VDV and the Navel infantry, they were also hidden among the border guards, Signal Troops and OB PDSS and DShV.

    GRU Spetznaz have their own units. When acting detached they still report to the directorate.


    The GRU spetsnaz is a lot closer to German "Brandenburg", and certain jaeger units which I would say ( and they themselfs would) that they took many things from ..but also had already experience from the deep recon and sabotage missions during WWII and special operations during Spanish civill war like i mentioned.

    GRU Spetsznaz are commando units, much like SAS and Green Berets.

    Not during the soviet times. The GRU spetsnaz were taken from variety of pools in the armed force's.

    VDV is and was the largest pool for eligible candidates for the service. Training is done at the Ryzan airbourne academy for both. If GRU does not complete the Spetsnaz training, they are kicked back to a regular VDV unit.


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    Post  Robert.V on Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:29 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    Robert.V wrote:There is no such thing as VDV spetsnaz. You're thinking of VDV recon which are even better trained VDV men. Or perhaps you're thinking of Guards status.


    VDV recon is Spetznaz. Red Banner Guards is just an honour bestowed on a unit for valour in combat. The designation can be left over from the Great Patriotic War, whether the unit is still elite or not. There are many Guards units that were reorganized after the war that still retain guards title even if not earned.


    Anyway, the GRU Army and Navy spetsnaz weren't hidden just in VDV and the Navel infantry, they were also hidden among the border guards, Signal Troops and OB PDSS and DShV.

    GRU Spetznaz have their own units. When acting detached they still report to the directorate.


    The GRU spetsnaz is a lot closer to German "Brandenburg", and certain jaeger units which I would say ( and they themselfs would) that they took many things from ..but also had already experience from the deep recon and sabotage missions during WWII and special operations during Spanish civill war like i mentioned.

    GRU Spetsznaz are commando units, much like SAS and Green Berets.

    Not during the soviet times. The GRU spetsnaz were taken from variety of pools in the armed force's.

    VDV is and was the largest pool for eligible candidates for the service. Training is done at the Ryzan airbourne academy for both. If GRU does not complete the Spetsnaz training, they are kicked back to a regular VDV unit.



    VDV recon is not Spetsnaz ..sure they are very well trained, all recon units are/were but they ain't spetsnaz. And I know what gaurds status is. Gaurds units always had men a notch above assinged to them.

    GRU Spetznaz have their own units. When acting detached they still report to the directorate.

    Who said otherwise.

    GRU Spetsznaz are commando units, much like SAS and Green Berets.

    no they weren't ..they were modelled after German "Brandenburg" more then anything else. Or at least that's what a member from the 16 OBr SpN said. That and it makes sense.


    VDV is and was the largest pool for eligible candidates for the service. Training is done at the Ryzan airbourne academy for both. If GRU does not complete the Spetsnaz training, they are kicked back to a regular VDV unit.

    Maybe this is the case this days but back in the day, they were drawn from variety of pools although yes VDV would have been one of the larger pools.


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    Post  Vladimir79 on Fri Nov 12, 2010 2:42 pm

    Robert.V wrote:

    VDV recon is not Spetsnaz ..sure they are very well trained, all recon units are/were but they ain't spetsnaz. And I know what gaurds status is. Gaurds units always had men a notch above assinged to them.

    Try telling that to 45 PFU. Razz

    Who said otherwise.

    You did by implying GRU SPN are sent willy nilly throughout the services. They are not embedded into regular units except for a few intel officers.

    no they weren't ..they were modelled after German "Brandenburg" more then anything else. Or at least that's what a member from the 16 OBr SpN said. That and it makes sense.

    I suggest you read Suvorov's book: Spetsnaz, The Story Behind the Soviet SAS. He was GRU Spetznaz and compared it quite well to SAS, hence the title of his book. Not to mention I know several members who would be insulted to be compared to the fucking Brandenburgers. Their trademark was dressing in stolen uniforms. They were strictly commandos, GRU is first and foremost an intelligence directorate which is a fully rounded
    spec ops capability.


    Maybe this is the case this days but back in the day, they were drawn from variety of pools although yes VDV would have been one of the larger pools.

    Officer training is done at Ryazan where they are selected to either go VDV or GRU. With the new reforms abolishing the warrant corps and making of professional sergeants, all VDV/GRU NCOs undergo the same process at Ryazan. They are now all airbourne. GRU takes contracts first, of which 90% of their selection must come from VDV. Get off the shit you read about things 60 years ago and get with the times.

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    Post  Robert.V on Fri Nov 12, 2010 3:06 pm

    Suvorov's book ? That's were you got your info from ? The guy is full of shit and most of what was written in that book was BS.


    You did by implying GRU SPN are sent willy nilly throughout the services. They are not embedded into regular units except for a few intel officers.

    No, I didn't say they were embedded, I said they were hiddden among them.
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    Post  Vladimir79 on Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:25 pm

    Robert.V wrote:Suvorov's book ? That's were you got your info from ? The guy is full of shit and most of what was written in that book was BS.

    That is where I got the popular SAS reference, also other people I know serving in GRU SPN who compare themselves to SAS and G. Berets. The rest of my knowledge is first hand. I was VDV.


    No, I didn't say they were embedded, I said they were hiddden among them.

    Hidden among a unit means embedded. duh
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    Post  George1 on Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:23 am

    Soviet and Russian military special forces

    The elite units of the Soviet Armed Forces and Armed Forces of the Russian Federation are controlled, for the most part, by the military-intelligence GRU (Spetsnaz GRU) under the General Staff. They were heavily involved in secret operations and training pro-Soviet forces during the Cold War and in the wars in Afghanistan during the 1980s and Chechnya during the 1990s and 2000s. In 2010, as a result of the 2008 military reforms, GRU special forces came under the control of the Ground Forces, being "directly subordinated to commanders of combined strategic commands." However, in 2013, these Spetsnaz forces were placed back under the GRU, under the wings of the newly formed Special Operations Forces of the Russian Federation . The Russian Airborne Troops  includes the 45th Guards Spetsnaz Regiment.

    Special Operations Forces, subordinate directly to the MoD

       Special Operations Command (KSO)
           TsSN "Senezh"

    Russian Ground Forces

       2nd Special Purpose Brigade in Promezhitsa, Pskov Oblast
       3rd Special Purpose Brigade in Tolyatti
       10th Special Purpose Brigade in Mol'kino, Krasnoyarsk Territory
       14th Special Purpose Brigade in Ussuriysk
       16th Special Purpose Brigade in Tambov
       22nd Special Purpose Guards Brigade in Stepnoi, Rostov Oblast
       24th Special Purpose Brigade in Irkutsk

    Russian Airborne Troops

       45th Guards Special Purpose Regiment

    Russian Navy

       Naval Special Operations Units
           442nd Naval Reconnaissance Spetsnaz Point (omrpSpN – Pacific Fleet)
           420th Naval Reconnaissance Spetsnaz Point (omrpSpN – Northern Fleet)
           431st Naval Reconnaissance Spetsnaz Point (omrpSpN – Black Sea Fleet)
           561st Naval Reconnaissance Spetsnaz Point (omrpSpN – Baltic Fleet)

    FSB of the Russian Federation special forces

    The Center of Special Operations of the FSB is officially tasked with combating terrorism and protecting the constitutional order of the Russian Federation. The CSN FSB consists of estimated 4,000 operators in three operative divisions:

       Directorate "A" (Spetsgruppa Alpha)
       Directorate "B" (Spetsgruppa Vega)
       Directorate "C" (Spetsgruppa Smerch)
       Regional FSB units


    Spetsgruppa 'A' (Alpha Group) is a counter-terrorist unit created in 1974. It is a professional unit, consisting of about 700 operators and support personnel in five operational detachments. Most are stationed in Moscow, with the remainder in three other cities: Krasnodar, Yekaterinburg and Khabarovsk. All Alpha operators undergo airborne, mountain and counter-sabotage dive training. Alpha has operated in other countries, most notably Operation Storm-333 (when Alpha and Zenith detachments supported the 154th Independent Spetsnaz Detachment—known as the "Muslim Battalion"—of the GRU on a mission to overthrow and kill Afghan president Hafizullah Amin).[69]

    Spetsgruppa "B" (Vympel, also known as "Vega" in period 1993-1995) was formed in 1981, merging two elite Cold War-era KGB special units—Cascade (Kaskad) and Zenith (Zenit)—which were similar to the CIA's Special Activities Division (responsible for covert operations involving sabotage and assassination in other countries) and re-designated for counter-terrorist and counter-sabotage operations. It is tasked with the protection of strategic installations, such as factories and transportation centers. With its Alpha counterparts, it is heavily used in the North Caucasus. Vympel has four operative units in Moscow, with branch offices in nearly every city containing a nuclear power plant.

    Spetsgruppa "C", or Smerch, but also known as the Service of Special Operations (ССО), is a relatively new unit formed in July 1999. Officers from Smerch are frequently involved with the capture and transfer of various bandit and criminal leaders who help aid disruption in the North Caucasus and throughout Russia. Operations include both direct action against bandit holdouts in Southern Russia as well as high-profile arrests in more densely populated cities and guarding government officials. Because of its initials, this group is casually referred to as “Smerch”. With the Center of Special Operations and its elite units, many FSB special forces units operate at the regional level. These detachments are usually known as ROSN or ROSO (Regional Department of Special Designation), such as Saint Petersburg's Grad (Hail) or Murmansk's Kasatka (Orca).

    Foreign Intelligence Service of the Russian Federation

    The SVR RF, formerly the First Chief Directorate of the KGB of the USSR, has its own top secret special force known as Zaslon (Заслон) (meaning Screen, Barrier or Shield) about which extremely little is known.

    Within the Operations Department of Directorate S, there is the elite Special Operations Group called Zaslon. Formerly in PGU KGB USSR called Vympel (e.g. French counterpart; Division Action). However, mere existence of such group within SVR is denied by Russian authorities. Nevertheless, there were some rumors that such group does indeed exist and is assigned to execute very special operations abroad primarily for protection of Russian embassy personnel and internal investigations. It is believed that the group is deep undercover and consists of approximately 300-500 highly experienced operatives speaking several languages and having extensive record of operations while serving in other secret units of the Russian military.

    Russian MVD special forces

    The Ministry of Internal Affairs (MVD) Spetsnaz includes a number of Russian Internal Troops (VV, successor to the Soviet Internal Troops) paramilitary units to combat internal threats to the government, such as insurgencies and mutinies. These units usually have a unique name and official OSN number, and some are part the ODON (also known as Dzerzhinsky Division).

    The following is a list of Internal Troops OSNs (отряд специального назначения, "special purpose detachment") in 2012:

       Dzerzhinsky Division (O.D.O.N.)
           604th Special Purpose Center
       7th OSN Rosich (Novocherkassk)
       12th OSN Ural (Nizhny Tagil)
       15th OSN Vyatich (Armavir)
       17th OSN Edelveys (Mineralnye Vody)
       19th OSN Ermak (Novosibirsk)
       20th OSN (Saratov)
       21st OSN Tayfun (Sosnovka)
       23rd OSN Mechel (Chelyabinsk)
       25th OSN Merkuriy (Smolensk)
       26th OSN Bars (Kazan)
       27th OSN Kuzbass (Kemerovo)
       28th OSN Ratnik (Arkhangelsk)
       29th OSN Bulat (Ufa)
       33rd OSN Peresvet (Moscow)
       34th OSN (Grozny)

    Are there any intentions of Russian Defense Ministry to create a Unified Special Forces Command?


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    Post  Russian Patriot on Sat Dec 24, 2011 3:38 am

    George1 wrote:Are there any intentions of Russian Defense Ministry to create a Unified Special Forces Command?

    As of yet no! but I will move this to correct section : VDV
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Dec 24, 2011 11:58 am

    AFAIK they are keeping the GRU intelligence, though it is getting smaller and is under each of the four districts command, so each district has its own recon and intel forces.

    The VDV has its own recon units, as does the Navy. In non military circles the FSB has its own counter terrorist teams like Alpha etc.

    So no, I don't think they will unify the command of such forces together as they each serve fairly different purposes for different groups.
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    Post  George1 on Sun Dec 25, 2011 6:10 pm

    GarryB wrote:AFAIK they are keeping the GRU intelligence, though it is getting smaller and is under each of the four districts command, so each district has its own recon and intel forces.

    The VDV has its own recon units, as does the Navy. In non military circles the FSB has its own counter terrorist teams like Alpha etc.

    So no, I don't think they will unify the command of such forces together as they each serve fairly different purposes for different groups.

    A unified special operations command could include special forces from all branches, independently from the various recon units of each branch. As an example:

    Special Mission Units: Alpha, Vympel
    Russian Army: Spetsnaz, MVD Spetsnaz
    Russian Navy: Naval spetsnaz
    VDV: 45th Detached recon regiment
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Dec 25, 2011 11:20 pm

    Wouldn't MVD Spetsnaz be under interior ministry forces?

    I have read that during the war in Georgia that the VDV cooperated with the Russian Navy... and since then they have trained together in case they need to work together again.

    When mentioning these joint exercises the VDV commander mentioned they hadn't done them before and this was pretty new for them.

    I guess the new Sniper brigades will need to be added to the special forces too.
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    Post  George1 on Mon Dec 26, 2011 1:28 am

    I cant understand why Russia has so many interior forces. (Internal troops, SOBR, OMON, MVD Spetsnaz etc.). I think MVD Spetsnaz could be transformed to a support unit to other special forces groups like US Army Rangers. Russian special forces follow an old doctrine of structure and role
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    Post  GarryB on Mon Dec 26, 2011 12:17 pm

    Each unit and group has a specific role and purpose.

    The MVD is responsible for border patrol and internal security, so they are like the coast guard and the national guard, and border patrol all in one.

    The FSB also has border patrol functions.

    The command structures in Russia... well the military ones, have had a fundamental reshuffle and now comprise 4 military districts with most forces... Army, Navy, Air Force... subordinate to them.

    Each district will have VDV and naval special forces and GRU (Intel gathering) forces, but space and air defence forces will not be subordinate to the regions and will operate above the whole Russian air space and above.

    Navy special forces doesn't need a centralised command because its missions will not be created centrally... Navy Spetsnaz will be attached to navy forces and will be assigned roles and missions based in that region... checking landing sites, intercepting underwater cables etc etc.

    It is the same for the other services... they operate in support of the units and brigades they work with.

    Centralising their command will separate them and make them clunky and unresponsive... the whole purpose of GRU spetsnaz is a recon unit that can be sent behind enemy likes to disrupt communications and command and take down SAM batteries or missile sites or whatever.
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    Post  George1 on Tue Feb 14, 2012 5:59 am

    45th Recon Regiment receives airborne training?
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Feb 14, 2012 7:43 am

    http://ra.spetsnaz.su/wiki/45th_Detached_Reconnaissance_Regiment

    The 45th Detached Reconnaissance Regiment is a special VDV recon regiment based in Moscow. It is special in the manner that it is directly subordinate to GRU.


    http://rt.com/online-exclusive/galleries/walk-forest-russias-rambos/soldiers-sent-spots-planet/#soldiers-sent-spots-planet

    Photos.

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      Current date/time is Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:05 pm