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    Hazing in the Russian Army

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    Vladimir79

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    Hazing in the Russian Army

    Post  Vladimir79 on Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:38 pm

    The Army recorded a significant increase hazing
    17:05 21.07.10
    ROSBALT

    According to the Chief Military Prosecutor's Office, hazing in the Russian army has increased dramatically over the past five months. The level of bullying has increased by 50 % . Since the beginning of 2010 from hazing in the army suffered 1,167 people , 4 people were killed . The Army is growing in the number of offenses related to corruption . This year, the damage from them was almost a billion rubles .

    http://www.ng.ru/nvo/news/2010/07/21/1279717522.html
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    solo.13mmfmj

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    Re: Hazing in the Russian Army

    Post  solo.13mmfmj on Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:35 pm

    What is hazing?
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    GarryB

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    Re: Hazing in the Russian Army

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:53 am

    The ritualised abuse of junior members of an organisation or group.
    Happens in private schools, team sports, pretty much any group situation where there are going to be senior members (who had it done to them and they are OK) and a new batch of junior members.
    Can range from fairly minor stuff like the new guy in the team has to clean everyones boots after their first game of rugby... to much more serious sick and peverted stuff.
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    milky_candy_sugar

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    Re: Hazing in the Russian Army

    Post  milky_candy_sugar on Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:19 am

    dedovshchina.... They should start to put some guys in prison, the rest will probably calm down
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    solo.13mmfmj

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    Re: Hazing in the Russian Army

    Post  solo.13mmfmj on Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:10 am

    "The ritualised abuse of junior members of an organisation or group."
    What the fuck is going in the Russian army?I heard of abuses before but this is a serious problem.
    No wonder peoples don't want to join.
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: Hazing in the Russian Army

    Post  Vladimir79 on Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:28 am

    solo.13mmfmj wrote:"The ritualised abuse of junior members of an organisation or group."
    What the fuck is going in the Russian army?I heard of abuses before but this is a serious problem.
    No wonder peoples don't want to join.

    It isn't any worse than usual. It is just getting reported more often since they have a toll free hotline and dismiss officers that allow it. Now that they are getting the actual figures, they are baffled out how bad it has always been.
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    solo.13mmfmj

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    Re: Hazing in the Russian Army

    Post  solo.13mmfmj on Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:25 am

    "It is just getting reported more often since they have a toll free hotline and dismiss officers that allow it."
    This is good that means more discipline and respect for the soldiers.
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    Julia

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    Stories of Boot Camp

    Post  Julia on Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:26 pm

    What was your boot camp experience? On the net there are quite a few stories to the exercise and conditions, to stories of getting beat up to horror stories. Is it different for everyone? How long it is? And what happens after you're done?
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: Hazing in the Russian Army

    Post  Vladimir79 on Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:40 pm

    I didn't get beat up until after bootcamp. Grandfathers were watched too closely to haze us there. Once you form your click, they are not likely to mess with you as you can beat them up just as easily. Basic training to basic army life in Russia is just alot of manual labour. You are a pair of free hands.
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    Julia

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    Re: Hazing in the Russian Army

    Post  Julia on Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:11 am

    I see...did you have to run errands for the Grandfathers too?

    This photo is a favourite of mine..



    That is so awsome.

    victor7

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    Re: Hazing in the Russian Army

    Post  victor7 on Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:00 am

    Medvedev has openly accepted that 20% of Russia's defense budget is gobbled up by corruption. If it cannot be weeded out in military with a stroke of a pen then something really wrong there. Instead of having soldiers fire 200 bullets at a practice range they end up firing 2 or 20 max. but the books show 200 bullets fired. Difference of 180 goes to the base commander's pocket.

    It was a shame to learn that elite pilots at Lipetsk base were paying bribes to base commander. What would that do to the morale of the young soldiers.

    http://fairwhistleblower.ca/content/corruption-fighting-russian-air-force-pilot-loses-his-wings
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    GarryB

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    Re: Hazing in the Russian Army

    Post  GarryB on Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:03 pm

    It was a shame to learn that elite pilots at Lipetsk base were paying bribes to base commander. What would that do to the morale of the young soldiers.

    I would say the young pilots have learned what it is like to have money taken from them, and they have also seen what happens to those who are corrupt and misuse their positions... of course such things might have started as traditions.

    For instance in cricket games here there used to be a prize for the man of the match, and it was tradition for the winner to share that prize with all the members of the team... now is that a tradition or is that corruption that the winner of the prize has to share that money with everyone in the team?

    Equally in some Russian units all the newbies might have to clean the boots of the older soldiers... from the outside that sounds like abuse, but inside the unit the older soldiers will say it was done to them, why shouldn't they continue the tradition. Then of course you get more clear cut cases of abuse where guys are beaten to death, but a lot of the time the line is not so clear as some will make it out to be... was he beaten to death by criminals, or did he steal and a punishment that got out of hand... each case will be different and you can't simply call them all one thing or another.

    victor7

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    Re: Hazing in the Russian Army

    Post  victor7 on Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:35 am

    Equally in some Russian units all the newbies might have to clean the boots of the older soldiers... from the outside that sounds like abuse, but inside the unit the older soldiers will say it was done to them, why shouldn't they continue the tradition.

    This is nonsense mentality and resulting from the folly of the more senior officers who have done nothing to stop the hazing practices in the Russian armed forces.

    Where is the honor of being a patriotic soldier of the motherland who is a good example to the juniors and boosts their morale by providing an upbeat working environment. There is a world of difference between high degree of discipline and outright abuse/torture of juniors.

    each case will be different and you can't simply call them all one thing or another.

    One gets a general idea of core of the things, be it corruption in any country, pollution in other etc. I would not provide cover to serious problem of hazing by asking for more micro look in. A list of various deeds should be made and given to everyone detailing what will get them in trouble if they act on those lines. In various companies HR manuals given to new and existing employees list acts that are not welcome in working place.

    A soldier should take pride in maintaining his dress, weapons, books and other tools. What is the need of asking another person/soldier to clean the boots or clean the weapons etc. Once in a month when extremely busy then these can be asked as a friendly favor, but every single day means disrespecting the junior soldier.

    Rules are there in both West and East, First and Third Worlds etc. but the winner is the one who implements them with efficiency and loser who fu**cks it all up arrogantly.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Hazing in the Russian Army

    Post  GarryB on Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:28 am

    Wonder why there are nearly non existent rape or even common sexual assault type cases in Saudi Arabia.

    Sex slavery and abuse and rape are rampant in Saudi Arabia, the fact that it is not reported doesn't change anything. A man in Saudi Arabia cannot be convicted of raping his wife so any time he decides he can force himself on her and she just has to take it. Women wont report a rape to the police because they will be punished because of it... if you want a model for rules do not look to Saudi Arabia.

    This is nonsense mentality and resulting from the folly of the more senior officers who have done nothing to stop the hazing practices in the Russian armed forces.

    The Senior officers don't do anything because for as long as they have been in the military the older soldiers have been doing that... as far as they are concerned it is not hazing, it is tradition... and anyone who complains is a weakling... Army life is not supposed to be pampered and easy... you are supposed to be training for war and you think you are too good to do some extra cleaning duties?

    They will say "harden up".

    There is a world of difference between high degree of discipline and outright abuse/torture of juniors.

    Making new soldiers clean boots is hardly torture, besides if these boys are captured by the enemy they can certainly expect harsh treatment. Part of training is to toughen them up.

    A soldier should take pride in maintaining his dress, weapons, books and other tools. What is the need of asking another person/soldier to clean the boots or clean the weapons etc. Once in a month when extremely busy then these can be asked as a friendly favor, but every single day means disrespecting the junior soldier.

    The senior soldiers will say they cleaned the boots of their elder soldiers and it didn't do them any harm, why should the next group not clean his?

    In some units you get a beating for not cleaning the boots of the older soldiers because it is a display of lack of respect. Many crimes are sorted out in house... just like in Private Schools.

    Rules are there in both West and East, First and Third Worlds etc. but the winner is the one who implements them with efficiency and loser who fu**cks it all up arrogantly.

    Rubbish. The amount of hazing that goes on in all sorts of units around the world has nothing to do with what sort of force is created as a result.

    The root of the problem is all about reporting. If you report hazing and get investigated and branded a bad guy or a stirrer yourself then you know that the problem is endemic.

    I am pretty sure a while back Medvedev had announced the creation of Military Polce... and such a structure would be a body that was independent of the Army structure that complaints could be directed to that bypasses the chain of command that has so far failed to deal with the problem.

    Another option is the Chaplain.

    victor7

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    Re: Hazing in the Russian Army

    Post  victor7 on Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:56 am

    Wonder why did eastern and central european nations banged banged and banged the doors of the West, to join the NATO. Hazing, abusing, exploiting etc. is in the Russian culture and 'materially deprived' communist psyche.

    American does hazing too, but not of its friends but of the friends of its enemies. Ex: Iraq, Serbia, Iraq II, Libya and more to come. Russia hazes its own friends and that is why it does not have any real friends.

    I have not heard of soldiers cleaning the boots of the officers in the Western Armies. In Russian army, conscripts and soldiers are treated like slaves.

    Russian culture is corrupt and lawless. Reagan was right, he said......Soviet Union is a third world country with nuke missiles.

    Give Russia for one year to Americans and America to Russians. End of the year.......very easy to predict who fu**cked it all up. Laughing

    victor7

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    Re: Hazing in the Russian Army

    Post  victor7 on Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:02 am

    and anyone who complains is a weakling

    It will take only 1 weakling to mow down three dozen 'bravehearts' before Russian army will do anything about hazing, corruption and mismanagement. Even if they do something, the real challenge is to sustain the improvement. However, I doubt that is a Russian trait.

    If in military such things are happening then do not blame the civilian structures for being inefficient. As shameful as Medvedev dancing to the tune of American boy.

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    GarryB

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    Temporary thread

    Post  GarryB on Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:50 am

    Wonder why did eastern and central european nations banged banged and banged the doors of the West, to join the NATO. Hazing, abusing, exploiting etc. is in the Russian culture and 'materially deprived' communist psyche.

    I am sure the Soviet soldiers crossing into eastern european territory on their way to crush the Germans were a little shocked at the luxury that Europeans enjoyed. I remember reading about one lad whom I think was from the Ukraine who came from a small village where the kitchen floor in his house was dirt and he came upon farms in Poland where the milking sheds has asphalt floors and he openly said to those fighting along side him his disgust that these people went East to take from the Soviet Union.

    And of course the noble civilised west likes to talk about the treatment of Europe under Soviet rule as being barbaric, the irony of course was that during their short stay in the Soviet Union... and without carpet bombing cities like the civilised west, the Germans still managed to murder 20 million Soviet civilians on the Eastern front in less than four years of occupation and they suggest Soviet actions after the war were uncivilised... to be honest I was disappointed with how well these rich fat Europeans were treated by the Soviets.

    American does hazing too, but not of its friends but of the friends of its enemies. Ex: Iraq, Serbia, Iraq II, Libya and more to come.

    Victor... don't confuse hazing with imperialist invasion and occupation, they have very little in common.

    Hazing goes on in the US, there are black and white photos at the Smithsonian showing white people in their best clothes having picnics while black people are hung and mutilated, and that is nothing to what they did to the Native Americans that have nothing at all to do with India or Indians, but dumb Europeans couldn't tell the difference and the name has stuck ever since.

    Russia hazes its own friends and that is why it does not have any real friends.

    Do you even understand what hazing is? It is a tradition or ritual that newbies must go through to gain acceptance.

    It is often part test and part tradition... an example would be having to post an introduction to be allowed to post on this forum. Most of it is totally harmless.

    Having to clean someone elses boots is a good example of harmless hazing. For goodness sake you are supposed to potentially fight a war with these guys and you get your panties in a twist because they made you clean their boots... just like in the next intake of raw recruits you are going to make one of them clean your boots.

    That isn't a big deal.

    The real problem isn't really hazing, it is really bullying and abuse and that actually should not be tolerated.

    I have not heard of soldiers cleaning the boots of the officers in the Western Armies.

    Really? I have heard stories of soldiers being made to drink their own vomit and getting urinated upon in fine upstanding western armies... think it doesn't happen?

    In Russian army, conscripts and soldiers are treated like slaves.

    Based on what evidence? When and where did you serve?

    Russian culture is corrupt and lawless.

    Now you are an expert on Russian culture? Does Russia kidnap people from all over the world and put them in guantanimo and torture them? Russia only has a periodic track record... up till about 1917 and then it restarts in the 1990s and during those periods I would say their behaviour was rather better than the wests by a wide margin.

    Reagan was right, he said......Soviet Union is a third world country with nuke missiles.

    Hahahahaha... quoting Raygun? The changes he made to the US economy pretty much layed the ground work for the problems the US has today, so he is actually one of my favourite American presidents...

    Give Russia for one year to Americans and America to Russians. End of the year.......very easy to predict who fu**cked it all up.

    The Americans can't have Russia, or should I say they can't have their mineral and energy wealth, not to mention all that forest and land...

    Even if they do something, the real challenge is to sustain the improvement. However, I doubt that is a Russian trait.

    You seem to think so many faults are ethnically based, it is very amusing. Let me give you the benefit of my experience... traits... good and bad... are Human traits.

    The US gave us management concepts and methods... they also gave us yes men that have destroyed as many companies as they have created... for every good thing there is bad... people talk about China being the end of the world as we know it and in reality I agree, but not because they will suddenly start invading other countries or any other such silly nonsense. Taking the US consumer model to China will result in 1.5 billion people suddenly becoming consumers that create enormous waste every year and consume energy at a higher rate than any other culture on the planet.

    The smog will cover the northern hemisphere and global warming will make Russia a much better place to live... and most of the US will return to desert... too hot in the south... suddenly it will be the Canadian border everyone wants to get across...

    Not sure where all this anti Russian rhetoric crap is coming from and it doesn't bother me that you think such things, but I would be careful if I were you, because RT and of course Vlad are both Russian and might not take so kindly to your comments.

    There are even former slaves here who served who also might take exception to your comments... though I think if they decide to share their views that would be interesting to me.

    Actually this part of the discussion belongs in a different section so I am moving it...
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    Mr.Kalishnikov47

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    Re: Hazing in the Russian Army

    Post  Mr.Kalishnikov47 on Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:03 am

    Guys no offense but these arguments are silly. This entire thread seems to have been filled with nothing but hate. I'm sure I'm not the only American who was offended by some of these comments, and I'm equally sure there were plenty of Russians offended by some of the other comments (looking at you victor7). This thread wasn't made to flame each other, it was made to discuss hazing in the Russian army, so can we please calm it down? No flame please pale
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    GarryB

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    Re: Hazing in the Russian Army

    Post  GarryB on Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:00 am

    Good post, worthy of a vote Mr.Kalishnikov47.

    Hazing exists, and where it is harmless tradition it should be left.

    Where it exists and it is bullying or even theft like commanders demanding subordinates hand their bonus pay to them then it needs to be exposed and dealt with.

    The talk of forming a military police will be useful, and I personally think that the various religious soldiers (ie chaplains) should become a resource to ensure the well being of all soldiers is looked after.

    The critical thing is that those that speak out get a proper hearing and are not used as scapegoats... or suffer from speaking out as that will silence other potential cases which will lead to the problems being ignored and the situation get worse and make the outcome much more negative. Suicides and shooting rampages just two examples...

    victor7

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    Re: Hazing in the Russian Army

    Post  victor7 on Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:42 am

    Hazing is bad for the morale and unity of any squad or team even in civilian set up. In Russian Army hazing is waaaaaay beyond the initial introduction ritual of the new recruits.

    Cleaning boots of a comrade who is tight on time is an act of team work. However, cleaning boots every single day is outright abuse. Junior or new recruit is there to become a soldier not become a butler of some barely senior soldier.


    There is a world of difference in following orders at work and becoming somebody's servant even after the work hours are done with for the day.

    If in military the hazing cannot be stopped with ONE stroke of pen, then something really wrong with that military and its culture.


    gloriousfatherland

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    Re: Hazing in the Russian Army

    Post  gloriousfatherland on Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:22 am

    Anyone see the connection between Hazing and Neonazism? there have been a significant rise of Neo nazi phenomenon across europe and russia contains about half of the worlds neo nazi gangs. It seems that history classes are poor in russia , and the death of 20 million slavs were useless, as uneducated youths get taken up into this crap....hazing is prensent in all gangs. If these guys make it into the army, which most likely would occur as they are of the lower class and cannot "pay" or "seek higher education" which prevents them from armed service.Im just questioning???
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    Pugnax

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    Hazing

    Post  Pugnax on Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:32 am

    Do not confuse neo nazisn,hazing and the rise of anti semitism in Europe.One factor leading to the latter is the steep rise of Euro-muslims.President Sarkozy hinted that there are too many immigrants and a serious redressing of the issue is necessary to preserve European culture but was hoping that the recent shootings were neo nazi related so as to escape the wrath of French islam.Hazing is a ritualized tradition whereby an individual earns status and recognition as a group member.It may not be right,but it is a human condition.The varying forms can be relatively mild to offensive,stupid and cruel and unless you live in the climate of such activity your own ethnocentric biases do not give you a right to comment.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Hazing in the Russian Army

    Post  GarryB on Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:19 am

    The problem of Hazing is perhaps worse in the west because everyone ignores it and pretends it doesn't happen.

    A man goes out and kills innocent people...

    Do it in Afghanistan and you are a loving caring family man who was having some problems blah blah blah.

    Do it in France and you are an evil terrorist that should never have been allowed into the country and lets change the immigration laws because after flooding the whole planet with French and European blood you suddenly think immigration is a bad thing and something must be done...

    I am surprised the BBC don't do a documentary about how Russian hazing is evil and proof that the half asians are uncivilised, while when the same or worse happens in the US or UK military it was a lone incident by a rogue element and it is being dealt with (ie swept under the carpet).

    Sadly it is the age we live in.

    victor7

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    Re: Hazing in the Russian Army

    Post  victor7 on Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:30 pm



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xvxljuUj2g

    gloriousfatherland

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    Re: Hazing in the Russian Army

    Post  gloriousfatherland on Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:39 am

    victor7 wrote:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xvxljuUj2g
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