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    Hazing in the Army

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    Vladimir79
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    Hazing in the Army

    Post  Vladimir79 on Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:38 am

    The Army recorded a significant increase hazing
    17:05 21.07.10
    ROSBALT

    According to the Chief Military Prosecutor's Office, hazing in the Russian army has increased dramatically over the past five months. The level of bullying has increased by 50 % . Since the beginning of 2010 from hazing in the army suffered 1,167 people , 4 people were killed . The Army is growing in the number of offenses related to corruption . This year, the damage from them was almost a billion rubles .

    http://www.ng.ru/nvo/news/2010/07/21/1279717522.html

    solo.13mmfmj
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    Re: Hazing in the Army

    Post  solo.13mmfmj on Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:35 am

    What is hazing?

    GarryB
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    Re: Hazing in the Army

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:53 am

    The ritualised abuse of junior members of an organisation or group.
    Happens in private schools, team sports, pretty much any group situation where there are going to be senior members (who had it done to them and they are OK) and a new batch of junior members.
    Can range from fairly minor stuff like the new guy in the team has to clean everyones boots after their first game of rugby... to much more serious sick and peverted stuff.

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    Re: Hazing in the Army

    Post  milky_candy_sugar on Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:19 pm

    dedovshchina.... They should start to put some guys in prison, the rest will probably calm down


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    solo.13mmfmj
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    Re: Hazing in the Army

    Post  solo.13mmfmj on Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:10 pm

    "The ritualised abuse of junior members of an organisation or group."
    What the fuck is going in the Russian army?I heard of abuses before but this is a serious problem.
    No wonder peoples don't want to join.

    Vladimir79
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    Re: Hazing in the Army

    Post  Vladimir79 on Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:28 pm

    solo.13mmfmj wrote:"The ritualised abuse of junior members of an organisation or group."
    What the fuck is going in the Russian army?I heard of abuses before but this is a serious problem.
    No wonder peoples don't want to join.

    It isn't any worse than usual. It is just getting reported more often since they have a toll free hotline and dismiss officers that allow it. Now that they are getting the actual figures, they are baffled out how bad it has always been.

    solo.13mmfmj
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    Re: Hazing in the Army

    Post  solo.13mmfmj on Thu Jul 29, 2010 6:25 am

    "It is just getting reported more often since they have a toll free hotline and dismiss officers that allow it."
    This is good that means more discipline and respect for the soldiers.

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    Russia plans to create military police by 2012 - Defense Ministry

    Post  Russian Patriot on Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:14 am


    Russia plans to create military police by 2012 - Defense Ministry

    RIA Novosti

    16:10 18/10/2010

    MOSCOW, October 18 (RIA Novosti) - Russia will finalize setting up its military police force by 2012, the Defense Ministry said on Monday.

    The idea of setting up military police units has been mooted for years, mainly in the context of brutal hazing and bullying practices in the Russian military.

    "The creation of military police has entered its final stages with the focus on legal aspects," the ministry said in a statement. "We are planning to finish this work during 2011."

    The ministry used extensively the experience of foreign countries while developing the concept of the introduction of military police in Russia's Armed Forces.

    Military police are generally perceived as being responsible for policing military facilities, enforcing military discipline, and investigating crimes in the military.

    Russian media earlier reported that some 20,000 personnel would be involved, the majority of them reservists.

    Some experts are skeptical military police alone will be able to do much to stop abuse in the Russian Armed Forces without effective, far-reaching reforms, including the transition from a draft to a professional force, as well as the establishment of civil control over the military.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2010/russia-101018-rianovosti01.htm

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    Stories of Boot Camp

    Post  Julia on Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:26 am

    What was your boot camp experience? On the net there are quite a few stories to the exercise and conditions, to stories of getting beat up to horror stories. Is it different for everyone? How long it is? And what happens after you're done?

    Vladimir79
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    Re: Hazing in the Army

    Post  Vladimir79 on Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:40 am

    I didn't get beat up until after bootcamp. Grandfathers were watched too closely to haze us there. Once you form your click, they are not likely to mess with you as you can beat them up just as easily. Basic training to basic army life in Russia is just alot of manual labour. You are a pair of free hands.

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    Re: Hazing in the Army

    Post  Julia on Wed Jan 12, 2011 6:11 am

    I see...did you have to run errands for the Grandfathers too?

    This photo is a favourite of mine..



    That is so awsome.

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    Re: Hazing in the Army

    Post  victor7 on Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:56 am

    what they need is improved hardware in terms of aircraft and weapons, to improve training systems and procedures, to replace obsolete equipment and sensors, and to raise the standard of their C4IR to the level where they can perform the mission stated above.

    to do all of these, first Russia will have to weed out corruption from the defense forces and culture. Russian culture (rather communist culture which still has solid traces in today's Russia) will not go even 80% clean from corruption, unless their country is under attack from a really evil force killing their citizens without mercy i.e. Nazi Germany attack on Russia in WWII.

    Difference between west and east is the ability to adapt to new things quickly and efficiently and that is where east lags and by alot. dunno

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    Re: Hazing in the Army

    Post  GarryB on Sat Mar 10, 2012 3:48 pm

    to do all of these, first Russia will have to weed out corruption from the defense forces and culture.

    Well thats a problem right there... in defence just like any other part of government there will always be corruption and also incompetence.

    If you want to weed out corruption first before you do anything else you will never get anything done.

    It is fine and actually a necessary thing to hunt corruption, but it is an ongoing thing that constantly needs attention. Not something you can do first and then get on with things.

    Corruption is everywhere there is money and choices to be made that involve large amounts of money.

    Difference between west and east is the ability to adapt to new things quickly and efficiently and that is where east lags and by alot

    May I disagree?

    The so called east... does eastern europe still count as east or is it west now BTW?... is no different to the west in many ways, the main difference is that Russia has been economically and politicially isolated from money and technology as a matter of course by the west in an attempt to stunt and suppress its growth potential, while with fellow western countries economic and technological growth and cooperation is encouraged.

    There remains a wall around Russia and it is nothing that Russia has created, but the block of countries called the west has put up, though there is a lot of traffic out where ideas from Russia are taken and used, but the traffic inward is much more restricted and must be paid for at top dollar... assuming it is decided they can have it.

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    Re: Hazing in the Army

    Post  victor7 on Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:00 am

    Medvedev has openly accepted that 20% of Russia's defense budget is gobbled up by corruption. If it cannot be weeded out in military with a stroke of a pen then something really wrong there. Instead of having soldiers fire 200 bullets at a practice range they end up firing 2 or 20 max. but the books show 200 bullets fired. Difference of 180 goes to the base commander's pocket.

    It was a shame to learn that elite pilots at Lipetsk base were paying bribes to base commander. What would that do to the morale of the young soldiers.

    http://fairwhistleblower.ca/content/corruption-fighting-russian-air-force-pilot-loses-his-wings

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    Re: Hazing in the Army

    Post  victor7 on Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:10 am

    There remains a wall around Russia and it is nothing that Russia has created, but the block of countries called the west has put up, though there is a lot of traffic out where ideas from Russia are taken and used, but the traffic inward is much more restricted and must be paid for at top dollar... assuming it is decided they can have it.

    I would not blame west if the bastards among the Russian population siphon off $3-4B a month to overseas accounts. West sure does and would woo the best and brightest brains from Russia or anywhere for that matter. But if Russians themselves are bent on hollowing the country then only they can help themselves in the long run.

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    Re: Hazing in the Army

    Post  GarryB on Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:03 pm

    Hahahahahaha... you are very naive if you think corruption is only Russias problem.

    Checks in the US have found explosives and ammo and even TOW missiles being smuggled out of Army bases to sell on the black market.

    It is not rocket science to work out very early on that weapons have value for people with more money than they know what to do with... and with explosive who can tell whether that was 1kg or 5kgs that exploded then?

    Corruption is certainly a serious problem but only a child would give up on people because they want to make ends meet.

    Their first comment will be that this was what the people in their position did before he arrived and he was only continuing a scam that helped him make ends meet.

    Most of these people aren't living high on the hog like fricken drug dealers, they might be able to buy a suit with the proceeds of their larceny.

    The higher up the scale the worse it will get with government officials taking bribes and skimming off amounts of money that pass through their offices, but that happens everywhere too.

    In fact in the US a lot of corruption is legalised and bit rich companies have what are called lobbiests that bribe officials to get special deals for their companies to do business cheaper or easier... it is why many big companies in the US don't pay tax in the US...

    Fighting corruption is an ongoing thing, just like fighting crime. You really only fail when you give up fighting.

    It was a shame to learn that elite pilots at Lipetsk base were paying bribes to base commander. What would that do to the morale of the young soldiers.

    I would say the young pilots have learned what it is like to have money taken from them, and they have also seen what happens to those who are corrupt and misuse their positions... of course such things might have started as traditions.

    For instance in cricket games here there used to be a prize for the man of the match, and it was tradition for the winner to share that prize with all the members of the team... now is that a tradition or is that corruption that the winner of the prize has to share that money with everyone in the team?

    Equally in some Russian units all the newbies might have to clean the boots of the older soldiers... from the outside that sounds like abuse, but inside the unit the older soldiers will say it was done to them, why shouldn't they continue the tradition. Then of course you get more clear cut cases of abuse where guys are beaten to death, but a lot of the time the line is not so clear as some will make it out to be... was he beaten to death by criminals, or did he steal and a punishment that got out of hand... each case will be different and you can't simply call them all one thing or another.

    Where did I say guns would replace MANPADS and SAMs? They could supplement each other in cluster.

    Big guns are hardly cheap and big shells are a threat to things on the ground... what goes up must come down remember and pumping hundreds of shells up... well a fraction will be duds and come down intact...

    I would expect a real breakthrough would be needed before they are revived and EM guns might be one breakthrough, though of course laser guns or particle beams could also offer alternatives...

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    Re: Hazing in the Army

    Post  Mindstorm on Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:55 pm

    I would not blame west if the bastards among the Russian population siphon off $3-4B a month to overseas accounts. West sure does and would woo the best and brightest brains from Russia or anywhere for that matter. But if Russians themselves are bent on hollowing the country then only they can help themselves in the long run.


    Victor7 your picture of the world is ..how say that ?.... a bit warped. Very Happy

    In the same exact way you attempt to "find" and create on your mind complex, "creative" way (and if you allow me to say that ,wronged in theirs most elementary rational basis) for Air Force's vehicles and weapons to overcome single systems part of titanic IADs designed to destroy them failing ,contemporaneously, to even only consider how those aircrafts and weapons represent no more than fixed and very ,very soft targets for stand off attacks by part of an advanced opponent, so you (very starngely) concentrate all your attention on single problems of Russia failing to realize that in the western world ,and USA even more, those same problems ,often in form much more "covered" and even integrated in the same economic systems of those nations ,are present.

    Only a blind (or worse someone completely brainwashed by controlled media ) can fail to realize that :

    On a side we have a falling empire, slowly crushing under the immense weight of the greater debt of human history (generated, as you well know, by a financial system that had ,for some dozen of years, literally generated from thin air "virtual" wealth 10-15 times greater than the real economy !!! ) attempting in any way to prolong its brief ,"artificial" world primacy through : 1) Control of its former over-Atlantic colony/market (Europe) now always more independent 2) Control of new oil rich areas -to allow ,as in the past, the printing of new dollars to be counterbalanced by petro-dollar mitigating factor - 3) Control of media, to attempt to present a picture of reality completely warped and ,in this way ,influence foreign public opinion toward the choice more profitable for....USA ( a ridiculous version of the old "Divide et impera")

    On the other side we have surging and re-surging world level Powers
    . (some of them with hundreds or even thousand years of primacy's history ) commonly refered-to as BRIC –Brasil ,Russia, India, China -, which any serious analyst agree will totally dominate the world economy within 30-40 years.



    Therefore is very difficult to talk of corruption in other countries ( even more in the completely warped and biased way its is covered in western media..) when corruption, lobby, inflated profit, false wealth etc...are components even institutionalized of the now crumbling American economic system ; factors ,that surfacing, have not only generated abroad the most horrible crisis of western world since beginning of last century but also ,on the internal side, an USA with a debt-free GDP almost not existent !!!


    Now THAT is what someone can call a polluted ,corrupted up to its same basis, economical system.



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    Re: Hazing in the Army

    Post  GarryB on Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:07 am

    True and I don't think anyone will go in reintroducing 76 mm or 100mm guns. Iran is special case here. But guns with cal. 30 mm, 35 mm, 40 mm and 57 mm could be very useful as ICV guns as well as AA guns or in dual role. Swedes made their CV-90 with 40 mm gun, search radar and higher elevation to do AA role and support armored units and they do well together with RBS-70/90 and BAMSE.

    Indeed, there is room for multi purpose weapons, and as IFV armour increases it is not economical to carry missiles for use against tanks and IFVs, and as the Soviets and Russians have found (and the west has still to cotton on to) is that a large calibre heavy shell with HE power compliments the light high velocity cannon and a middle calibre gun might be possible to find an easy medium between the 100mm gun of the BMP-3 and the 30mm cannon.

    The old problem was of sighting because with high velocity anti tank guns and low velocity anti personel guns the difference in trajectory was extreme, but now with automated fire control systems and ballistic computers you can have a gun that fires low velocity HE shells and super high velocity sabot rounds in the same belt as long as the firing rate allows for the reaiming required to keep the rounds on target...

    After all, more and more helicopters are equipped with DIRCM complexes, which work against MANPADS, but DIRCM is useless against gun rounds.

    Indeed DIRCM would be useless also against a laser beam riding shell... especially one that uses something other than optics to track the target... A small MMW radar set that can detect ground and air targets out to about 8km would be an interesting sensor addition to an IFV... especially if it can be incorporated into an APS...

    commonly refered-to as BRIC –Brasil ,Russia, India, China -, which any serious analyst agree will totally dominate the world economy within 30-40 years.

    The BRICSA countries have agreed to use national currencies in trade between them.

    If could be argued that Saddams greatest crime was to ask for payment in Euros and that was why Iraq was invaded...

    Very simply using the US dollar as an international currency of trade inflated its value and made it a reserve currency. With many emerging economies not wanting to use the US currency any more its value will fade, which might actually make American made products cheaper and actually make production in the US a better choice for some products, but at the end of the day it will make the US weaker internationally, which I think many countries in the world would prefer for the future.

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    Re: Hazing in the Army

    Post  victor7 on Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:06 am

    Mindstorm,

    Did you go to some really hardcore Soviet theory school? You sentences are so long that it is a torture to read and finish them. pirat

    Later on the thread discussion................


    The cancel out and kill the JDAM/JSOW/SDBs entering an envelop of 5km or so area is the objective. Thanks to inputs from Medo cheers , it seems feasible to make such a system in addition to Pantsirs and Tors and use it as inexpensive cluster response to deny J's reaching their targets and rather harmlessly exploding int he mid air at a distance.


    Last edited by victor7 on Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:22 am; edited 1 time in total

    victor7
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    Re: Hazing in the Army

    Post  victor7 on Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:14 am

    In WWII, Soviet soldiers and officers were caught ill prepared by the German attack. This resulted in very quick giving up of the territory. More so, because surrendering to Nazis was a painful experience resulting in slow destruction in camps. So everyone started to retreat to be on the safer side of the mess.

    Gen. Zhukov when called up by Stalin to save Moscow, issued an order: "Anybody who retreats will be shot". Either you surrender and suffer or die fighting with valor and honor. Retreat was no more the option. After quite a few were shot by their own army for retreating, the disease cured itself and rest is history.

    Same directive should be issued for corruption. Anyone caught in such act will face harsh punishments and depending on the severity it might even mean a bullet to the head. Wonder why there are nearly non existent rape or even common sexual assault type cases in Saudi Arabia. Governments ought to practice what they preach and soon economic efficiencies will take the front seat.

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    Re: Hazing in the Army

    Post  victor7 on Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:35 am

    Equally in some Russian units all the newbies might have to clean the boots of the older soldiers... from the outside that sounds like abuse, but inside the unit the older soldiers will say it was done to them, why shouldn't they continue the tradition.

    This is nonsense mentality and resulting from the folly of the more senior officers who have done nothing to stop the hazing practices in the Russian armed forces.

    Where is the honor of being a patriotic soldier of the motherland who is a good example to the juniors and boosts their morale by providing an upbeat working environment. There is a world of difference between high degree of discipline and outright abuse/torture of juniors.

    each case will be different and you can't simply call them all one thing or another.

    One gets a general idea of core of the things, be it corruption in any country, pollution in other etc. I would not provide cover to serious problem of hazing by asking for more micro look in. A list of various deeds should be made and given to everyone detailing what will get them in trouble if they act on those lines. In various companies HR manuals given to new and existing employees list acts that are not welcome in working place.

    A soldier should take pride in maintaining his dress, weapons, books and other tools. What is the need of asking another person/soldier to clean the boots or clean the weapons etc. Once in a month when extremely busy then these can be asked as a friendly favor, but every single day means disrespecting the junior soldier.

    Rules are there in both West and East, First and Third Worlds etc. but the winner is the one who implements them with efficiency and loser who fu**cks it all up arrogantly.

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    Re: Hazing in the Army

    Post  GarryB on Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:28 am

    In WWII, Soviet soldiers and officers were caught ill prepared by the German attack. This resulted in very quick giving up of the territory. More so, because surrendering to Nazis was a painful experience resulting in slow destruction in camps. So everyone started to retreat to be on the safer side of the mess.

    Errr... lets keep a little perspective... the Germans had just rolled the british and french forces who thought highly of their own abilities back with similar ease, the thing is that the Germans were ready to fight WWII, whereas every other country in the world was ready for WWI again.

    The problem wasn't sorted by the "no retreat" order, in fact in 1941 the Soviets lost more men and material captured by the enemy than they did for the rest of the war.

    Enormous numbers of trained men walked to captivity and death in Germany, and enormous amounts of material was lost.

    A large percentage of that material was totally obsolete, but a small amount was state of the art.

    The Yak-1, the T-34 and KV-1, the 76.2mm artillery and 120mm mortars and even the Tokarev rifles were highly prized by the Germans as superior to their own material.

    The draconian measure of orders of no retreat allowed enormous bodies of men and material to be captured and be lost to the enemy and was totally stupid.

    The stretch to Moscow rendered the German supply lines practically useless and totally vulnerable... an order for an orderly fighting withdrawl would have preserved the forces strength and resources while making the enemy pay for distance gained.

    The main problem was that the Soviet Army was in the middle of reforms after being largely destroyed by the purges. The Russian Army of 1941 was really only operational at Platoon level and at higher levels those in command didn't really know what they were doing... they didn't have the communications or experience to manouver large groups of soldiers on the battlefield and throughout the war the size of units got smaller and smaller.

    Of course during the war while Brigades and regiments and battalions got smaller and smaller they also become much more mechanised and got a lot more firepower and were much better lead and operated.

    Of course the Germans got better too.

    Wonder why there are nearly non existent rape or even common sexual assault type cases in Saudi Arabia.

    Sex slavery and abuse and rape are rampant in Saudi Arabia, the fact that it is not reported doesn't change anything. A man in Saudi Arabia cannot be convicted of raping his wife so any time he decides he can force himself on her and she just has to take it. Women wont report a rape to the police because they will be punished because of it... if you want a model for rules do not look to Saudi Arabia.

    This is nonsense mentality and resulting from the folly of the more senior officers who have done nothing to stop the hazing practices in the Russian armed forces.

    The Senior officers don't do anything because for as long as they have been in the military the older soldiers have been doing that... as far as they are concerned it is not hazing, it is tradition... and anyone who complains is a weakling... Army life is not supposed to be pampered and easy... you are supposed to be training for war and you think you are too good to do some extra cleaning duties?

    They will say "harden up".

    There is a world of difference between high degree of discipline and outright abuse/torture of juniors.

    Making new soldiers clean boots is hardly torture, besides if these boys are captured by the enemy they can certainly expect harsh treatment. Part of training is to toughen them up.

    A soldier should take pride in maintaining his dress, weapons, books and other tools. What is the need of asking another person/soldier to clean the boots or clean the weapons etc. Once in a month when extremely busy then these can be asked as a friendly favor, but every single day means disrespecting the junior soldier.

    The senior soldiers will say they cleaned the boots of their elder soldiers and it didn't do them any harm, why should the next group not clean his?

    In some units you get a beating for not cleaning the boots of the older soldiers because it is a display of lack of respect. Many crimes are sorted out in house... just like in Private Schools.

    Rules are there in both West and East, First and Third Worlds etc. but the winner is the one who implements them with efficiency and loser who fu**cks it all up arrogantly.

    Rubbish. The amount of hazing that goes on in all sorts of units around the world has nothing to do with what sort of force is created as a result.

    The root of the problem is all about reporting. If you report hazing and get investigated and branded a bad guy or a stirrer yourself then you know that the problem is endemic.

    I am pretty sure a while back Medvedev had announced the creation of Military Polce... and such a structure would be a body that was independent of the Army structure that complaints could be directed to that bypasses the chain of command that has so far failed to deal with the problem.

    Another option is the Chaplain.

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    Re: Hazing in the Army

    Post  victor7 on Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:56 am

    Wonder why did eastern and central european nations banged banged and banged the doors of the West, to join the NATO. Hazing, abusing, exploiting etc. is in the Russian culture and 'materially deprived' communist psyche.

    American does hazing too, but not of its friends but of the friends of its enemies. Ex: Iraq, Serbia, Iraq II, Libya and more to come. Russia hazes its own friends and that is why it does not have any real friends.

    I have not heard of soldiers cleaning the boots of the officers in the Western Armies. In Russian army, conscripts and soldiers are treated like slaves.

    Russian culture is corrupt and lawless. Reagan was right, he said......Soviet Union is a third world country with nuke missiles.

    Give Russia for one year to Americans and America to Russians. End of the year.......very easy to predict who fu**cked it all up. Laughing

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    Re: Hazing in the Army

    Post  victor7 on Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:02 am

    and anyone who complains is a weakling

    It will take only 1 weakling to mow down three dozen 'bravehearts' before Russian army will do anything about hazing, corruption and mismanagement. Even if they do something, the real challenge is to sustain the improvement. However, I doubt that is a Russian trait.

    If in military such things are happening then do not blame the civilian structures for being inefficient. As shameful as Medvedev dancing to the tune of American boy.


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    Temporary thread

    Post  GarryB on Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:50 pm

    Wonder why did eastern and central european nations banged banged and banged the doors of the West, to join the NATO. Hazing, abusing, exploiting etc. is in the Russian culture and 'materially deprived' communist psyche.

    I am sure the Soviet soldiers crossing into eastern european territory on their way to crush the Germans were a little shocked at the luxury that Europeans enjoyed. I remember reading about one lad whom I think was from the Ukraine who came from a small village where the kitchen floor in his house was dirt and he came upon farms in Poland where the milking sheds has asphalt floors and he openly said to those fighting along side him his disgust that these people went East to take from the Soviet Union.

    And of course the noble civilised west likes to talk about the treatment of Europe under Soviet rule as being barbaric, the irony of course was that during their short stay in the Soviet Union... and without carpet bombing cities like the civilised west, the Germans still managed to murder 20 million Soviet civilians on the Eastern front in less than four years of occupation and they suggest Soviet actions after the war were uncivilised... to be honest I was disappointed with how well these rich fat Europeans were treated by the Soviets.

    American does hazing too, but not of its friends but of the friends of its enemies. Ex: Iraq, Serbia, Iraq II, Libya and more to come.

    Victor... don't confuse hazing with imperialist invasion and occupation, they have very little in common.

    Hazing goes on in the US, there are black and white photos at the Smithsonian showing white people in their best clothes having picnics while black people are hung and mutilated, and that is nothing to what they did to the Native Americans that have nothing at all to do with India or Indians, but dumb Europeans couldn't tell the difference and the name has stuck ever since.

    Russia hazes its own friends and that is why it does not have any real friends.

    Do you even understand what hazing is? It is a tradition or ritual that newbies must go through to gain acceptance.

    It is often part test and part tradition... an example would be having to post an introduction to be allowed to post on this forum. Most of it is totally harmless.

    Having to clean someone elses boots is a good example of harmless hazing. For goodness sake you are supposed to potentially fight a war with these guys and you get your panties in a twist because they made you clean their boots... just like in the next intake of raw recruits you are going to make one of them clean your boots.

    That isn't a big deal.

    The real problem isn't really hazing, it is really bullying and abuse and that actually should not be tolerated.

    I have not heard of soldiers cleaning the boots of the officers in the Western Armies.

    Really? I have heard stories of soldiers being made to drink their own vomit and getting urinated upon in fine upstanding western armies... think it doesn't happen?

    In Russian army, conscripts and soldiers are treated like slaves.

    Based on what evidence? When and where did you serve?

    Russian culture is corrupt and lawless.

    Now you are an expert on Russian culture? Does Russia kidnap people from all over the world and put them in guantanimo and torture them? Russia only has a periodic track record... up till about 1917 and then it restarts in the 1990s and during those periods I would say their behaviour was rather better than the wests by a wide margin.

    Reagan was right, he said......Soviet Union is a third world country with nuke missiles.

    Hahahahaha... quoting Raygun? The changes he made to the US economy pretty much layed the ground work for the problems the US has today, so he is actually one of my favourite American presidents...

    Give Russia for one year to Americans and America to Russians. End of the year.......very easy to predict who fu**cked it all up.

    The Americans can't have Russia, or should I say they can't have their mineral and energy wealth, not to mention all that forest and land...

    Even if they do something, the real challenge is to sustain the improvement. However, I doubt that is a Russian trait.

    You seem to think so many faults are ethnically based, it is very amusing. Let me give you the benefit of my experience... traits... good and bad... are Human traits.

    The US gave us management concepts and methods... they also gave us yes men that have destroyed as many companies as they have created... for every good thing there is bad... people talk about China being the end of the world as we know it and in reality I agree, but not because they will suddenly start invading other countries or any other such silly nonsense. Taking the US consumer model to China will result in 1.5 billion people suddenly becoming consumers that create enormous waste every year and consume energy at a higher rate than any other culture on the planet.

    The smog will cover the northern hemisphere and global warming will make Russia a much better place to live... and most of the US will return to desert... too hot in the south... suddenly it will be the Canadian border everyone wants to get across...

    Not sure where all this anti Russian rhetoric crap is coming from and it doesn't bother me that you think such things, but I would be careful if I were you, because RT and of course Vlad are both Russian and might not take so kindly to your comments.

    There are even former slaves here who served who also might take exception to your comments... though I think if they decide to share their views that would be interesting to me.

    Actually this part of the discussion belongs in a different section so I am moving it...

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    Re: Hazing in the Army

    Post  Sponsored content Today at 12:24 am


      Current date/time is Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:24 am