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    T-72 ΜΒΤ: Μodernisation and Variants

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    Interlinked

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    Re: T-72 ΜΒΤ: Μodernisation and Variants

    Post  Interlinked on Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:34 am

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:
    Like all western fanboys

    I run this little blog...

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:

    Also, do you have a source that specifically states that spaced armor was added to the bradley's front hull armor?

    I couldn't find anything. The closest I got to was this sight: http://afvdb.50megs.com/usa/m2bradley.html#M2A2

    But it only mentions that spaced armor was added to the turret front and doesn't mention any upgrade to the hull front protection.

    Sorry for offtopic, but BS about the supposed greatness of the Crapley needs to stop.

    BTW, you failed to refute my other points.

    This really does not belong in this thread. If you want an answer, then PM me.
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    Re: T-72 ΜΒΤ: Μodernisation and Variants

    Post  Interlinked on Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:40 am

    Militarov wrote:

    You say what?


    Ah, yes, I forgot about that standard issue multi-coloured anti-missile rubber sheeting... Laughing

    Good one.
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    Re: T-72 ΜΒΤ: Μodernisation and Variants

    Post  Militarov on Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:28 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    Interlinked wrote:
    Skirting usually refers to the skirts on cars and tanks, because those actually resemble skirts. They're thin, light, and they cover the lower part of the vehicle. Think about it. Why would a skirt be on the turret? The parts of the turret on either side of the gun are referred to as the "turret cheeks". The area around the gun barrel is called the "mantlet".

    You say what?


    If I am correct that was a T-34-85 Serbian used in NATO balkan's war. This is rubber sheets used not only for additional protection but also help to reduce heat signature. The same type of tank was used against uk Royal engineers stationed in a bunker the T-34-85 opened fired destroying bunker a injuring the UK soldiers. The gun of the T-34-85 is still useful in such conflicts like Syria.

    This photo is from war in Bosnia few years earlier, it was one of many, many field modifications done. Ammunition boxes filled with sand, rubber sheets, wood... etc etc.

    These rubbers were added to increase survivability aganist HEAT, mostly M-80 Zolja.
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    KoTeMoRe

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    Re: T-72 ΜΒΤ: Μodernisation and Variants

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:29 pm

    Once again, no matter what you think about your sources, predicting hit percentage, hit areas, ammo expenditure, supply lines, rationing and fighter accuracy is akin to going to the casino.

    German studies on WW1 hit to shot ratio were roughly at 12 000 rounds per dead enemy. US ratio in WW2 was anywhere from 15K To 120K, and in Vietnam it even went to 250 K (that number has stood the test of time with the GAO counting as much per dead talitubbie in Afghanistan).

    So it is just impossible to point out a pattern of all these things that make an armed conflict. Especially as it becomes a challenge to previous paradigms.

    No we don't have to speculate about the low number of tank vs tank battles in eastern Ukraine/Donbass. There is a specific timeline of that conflict. That timeline points out to the total chaos among both belligerents on operational level and intelligence level. For about 4 months the insurgency had almost no armor and the Ukrainians had a poor motor pool both in quality and condition. This meant that until September 2014 there was little chance of tank to tank battle. Even during the most pressing Insurgent push there were only 5 occasions of tank fights (all of them in the Illovaisk cauldron).

    The biggest armor action ironically took part way after the Illovaisk annihilation, roughly around the 5th September and was undertaken by Russian tankers in the rear of the Ukrainian armored forces (big remnant of the border sealing attempt in July and Augustus) with over 40 tanks destroyed on the move out of the border area towards Mariupol. This also because intelligence broke down when the Ukrainians were cutoff in up to the Svitlodarsk salient.

    When the front was iced and the Insurgents decided to pluck out the Debaltsevo salient we had the first systematic tank on tank combat, that once again turned wild against the Ukrainian forces albeit the Insurgents were clearly less efficient in their approach to the Ukrainian lines, with a lot of losses due on both sides to ineptitude to read maps (Bahmutka/Sanxharovka mine fields).

    Air Power being scarce should have facilitated AFV combat, but it didn't. This mainly because the units were loosely coordinated on both sides.



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    Re: T-72 ΜΒΤ: Μodernisation and Variants

    Post  Interlinked on Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:27 am

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Once again, no matter what you think about your sources, predicting hit percentage, hit areas, ammo expenditure, supply lines, rationing and fighter accuracy is akin to going to the casino.

    "No matter what the evidence shows, I am still right"
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    Re: T-72 ΜΒΤ: Μodernisation and Variants

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:49 am

    Interlinked wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Once again, no matter what you think about your sources, predicting hit percentage, hit areas, ammo expenditure, supply lines, rationing and fighter accuracy is akin to going to the casino.

    "No matter what the evidence shows, I am still right"

    Evidence shows that predicting a war based on past wars cherry picking is at best a con job of academically encensed proportions.

    Tank to tank combat in Western Europe is definitly going to defy your assumption over Frontal Arc hits.
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    Re: T-72 ΜΒΤ: Μodernisation and Variants

    Post  Interlinked on Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:13 am

    Then we will just have to agree to disagree, and get back to the T-72. To kick it off: Does anyone know why the "Podboi" and "Nadboi" anti-radiation liner was removed in the T-72B3? It served a dual purpose, being a rather effective spall liner, but it wasn't replaced with an aramid fiber spall liner even though it got removed. To be clear, I'm referring to this stuff


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    Re: T-72 ΜΒΤ: Μodernisation and Variants

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