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    T-72 ΜΒΤ: Μodernisation and Variants

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    Werewolf
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    Re: T-72 ΜΒΤ: Μodernisation and Variants

    Post  Werewolf on Mon May 30, 2016 10:56 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:A tank that can effectively conduct combat operations inside a city has been constructed by Russia’s Uralvagonzavod. The tank was constructed taking into consideration conflicts in Syria and the Middle East.


    http://sputniknews.com/military/20160530/1040497967/syria-russian-tank.html
    One troll in a comment section with 100% posts replying to herself dozen times.

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    Re: T-72 ΜΒΤ: Μodernisation and Variants

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Mon May 30, 2016 11:25 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:A tank that can effectively conduct combat operations inside a city has been constructed by Russia’s Uralvagonzavod. The tank was constructed taking into consideration conflicts in Syria and the Middle East.


    http://sputniknews.com/military/20160530/1040497967/syria-russian-tank.html
    One troll in a comment section with 100% posts replying to herself dozen times.

    Hahah you saw that one too.

    Jesus. Also why is Sputnik soo late...

    nemrod
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    Re: T-72 ΜΒΤ: Μodernisation and Variants

    Post  nemrod on Mon Jun 06, 2016 12:15 am

    T-72 – Battle-Tank Fit For Urban Combat
    By News Desk - Jun 3, 2016

    http://defense-update.com/20160603_t72_urban.html





    The T-72 is the most popular tank currently in service. With over 22,000 produced, the T-72 is involved in almost every theater of war, and, with the transformation of warfare from symmetric to asymmetric combat, waged in urban areas, the T-72 must also adapt, to maintain its effectiveness in complex terrain.

    Part of this modernization is to equip the T-72 to be more effective and less vulnerable to close-in threats, such as obstacles, mines, IEDs and RPGs, all characteristic of urban warfare, The Russian company has designed this urban warfare kit based on the experience of the war in Syria.

    The tank displayed at KADEX 2016 shows additional reactive armor tiles expanding the protected areas on the turret and hull sides, and rear areas protected by slat armor. The tank also carries Counter-IED jammer to defeat radio-controlled threats. A distinctive feature is the protected shield built around the commander’s hatch, that enables the tank commander to observe to all sides and upwards, through the transparent shield and operate the heavy machine gun. For optronics and fire control the modernized tank employs the Sosna-U, multi-channel TV/thermal sight and missile guidance system. The gun is replaced with the improved 2A46M cannon and an auto loader modified to fire missiles. A dozen blade adds to the tank’s potential in obstacle clearing or counter-mobility operations.

    Considering large-scale modernization of its fleet of T-72 tanks, Kazakhstan has approached several providers from Russia, Turkey, and Israel. All are providing systems and components for the upgrading program to be done in the country. Among the systems displayed at KADEX was a T-72A fitted with a modern Optronics, thermal imaging and fire control provided by Elbit Systems. Another variant was the T-72B3 configured with a new urban warfare kit developed by the original manufacturer Uralvagonzavod.

    A Russian-Kazakh JV established by Uralvagonzavod and Kazakhstan Engineering in 2013 aims to modernize T-72 tanks and other variants based on this chassis. The JV is also set to convert decommissioned T-72 tanks into evacuation, obstacle-removing vehicles, and other heavy, special purpose machines. The Kazakh company has established another JV with the Turkish defense conglomerate Aselsan; this JV is also eyeing the T-72 upgrade as a major business opportunity.

    Part of this modernization is to equip the T-72 to be more effective and less vulnerable to close-in threats, such as obstacles, mines, IEDs and RPGs, all characteristic of urban warfare, The Russian company has designed this urban warfare kit based on the experience of the war in Syria. Photo: Dan Zeevi


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    Post  d_taddei2 on Mon Jun 06, 2016 3:23 am

    nemrod wrote:T-72 – Battle-Tank Fit For Urban Combat
    By News Desk - Jun 3, 2016

    http://defense-update.com/20160603_t72_urban.html





    The T-72 is the most popular tank currently in service. With over 22,000 produced, the T-72 is involved in almost every theater of war, and, with the transformation of warfare from symmetric to asymmetric combat, waged in urban areas, the T-72 must also adapt, to maintain its effectiveness in complex terrain.

    Part of this modernization is to equip the T-72 to be more effective and less vulnerable to close-in threats, such as obstacles, mines, IEDs and RPGs, all characteristic of urban warfare, The Russian company has designed this urban warfare kit based on the experience of the war in Syria.

    The tank displayed at KADEX 2016 shows additional reactive armor tiles expanding the protected areas on the turret and hull sides, and rear areas protected by slat armor. The tank also carries Counter-IED jammer to defeat radio-controlled threats. A distinctive feature is the protected shield built around the commander’s hatch, that enables the tank commander to observe to all sides and upwards, through the transparent shield and operate the heavy machine gun. For optronics and fire control the modernized tank employs the Sosna-U, multi-channel TV/thermal sight and missile guidance system. The gun is replaced with the improved 2A46M cannon and an auto loader modified to fire missiles. A dozen blade adds to the tank’s potential in obstacle clearing or counter-mobility operations.

    Considering large-scale modernization of its fleet of T-72 tanks, Kazakhstan has approached several providers from Russia, Turkey, and Israel. All are providing systems and components for the upgrading program to be done in the country. Among the systems displayed at KADEX was a T-72A fitted with a modern Optronics, thermal imaging and fire control provided by Elbit Systems. Another variant was the T-72B3 configured with a new urban warfare kit developed by the original manufacturer Uralvagonzavod.

    A Russian-Kazakh JV established by Uralvagonzavod and Kazakhstan Engineering in 2013 aims to modernize T-72 tanks and other variants based on this chassis. The JV is also set to convert decommissioned T-72 tanks into evacuation, obstacle-removing vehicles, and other heavy, special purpose machines. The Kazakh company has established another JV with the Turkish defense conglomerate Aselsan; this JV is also eyeing the T-72 upgrade as a major business opportunity.

    Part of this modernization is to equip the T-72 to be more effective and less vulnerable to close-in threats, such as obstacles, mines, IEDs and RPGs, all characteristic of urban warfare, The Russian company has designed this urban warfare kit based on the experience of the war in Syria. Photo: Dan Zeevi



    any orders placed for this? pretty good design i dont see why Russia isnt pushing sales on upgraded T-72, still a good tank

    George1
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    Re: T-72 ΜΒΤ: Μodernisation and Variants

    Post  George1 on Wed Jun 08, 2016 3:26 am

    Tanks T-72 will be the main armament of the new tank division, which will be formed in the Chelyabinsk region before the end of the year. He told reporters the assistant commander of the Central Military District Jaroslav Roshupkin.

    Подробнее на ТАСС:
    https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/3344982&usg=ALkJrhjgnGP_tBVgN2oGqNm9SMh9manKXg


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    Re: T-72 ΜΒΤ: Μodernisation and Variants

    Post  DerWolf on Wed Jun 08, 2016 10:54 pm

    George1 wrote:Tanks T-72 will be the main armament of the new tank division, which will be formed in the Chelyabinsk region before the end of the year. He told reporters the assistant commander of the Central Military District Jaroslav Roshupkin.

    Подробнее на ТАСС:
    https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/3344982&usg=ALkJrhjgnGP_tBVgN2oGqNm9SMh9manKXg

    I hope they will all be the modernised version BM3.

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    Post  d_taddei2 on Thu Jun 23, 2016 5:47 pm

    so whats peoples views on upgraded T-72, such as T-72B3M in comparison to T-90MS, considering cost and capability is the extra cost of T-90MS worth it? also anyone care to point the major differences in cost and capability on both tanks.

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    Re: T-72 ΜΒΤ: Μodernisation and Variants

    Post  VladimirSahin on Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:57 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:so whats peoples views on upgraded T-72, such as T-72B3M in comparison to T-90MS, considering cost and capability is the extra cost of T-90MS worth it? also anyone care to point the major differences in cost and capability on both tanks.

    I'd say T-72B3M would be great to upgrade B3 because B3 is kind of half assed, How ever I don't think that T-72B3M will enter service this year or the next year. I'd very much like for the T-90M upgrade (Domestic T-90MS) how ever it's probably only going to be a dream. We'll have to wait till mid-end 2017 for T-14s to be in active service. Meanwhile our asshat colleagues in the US with their budget are able to upgrade M1A2s to SEP V2 and V1 in way great numbers.

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    Re: T-72 ΜΒΤ: Μodernisation and Variants

    Post  galicije83 on Tue Aug 23, 2016 2:47 pm

    I spoke whit my good friend who participated in tank biathlon this year as part of Serbian team. Same shit like last year, with so many problems with this russian upgrade of T72 junk tank. It has bad half FCS and because of this half FCS they missed target when tank isnt on move because of wind. Our M-84s (Slovenian) who participated in Tank challenge in Germany was second in targeting from move, when all targets are moving just like tanks. Batter was just latest LEO 2A6. We made our tanks in late 80s with one of the best FCS on that time. 28 years later and this FCS is still excellent, its batter then FCS in Abrams M1A2, Italian Ariete.

    T-72 tanks are so bad after all this upgrades. It was big junk when seh was made and still is after all this years...

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    Re: T-72 ΜΒΤ: Μodernisation and Variants

    Post  xeno on Tue Aug 23, 2016 4:14 pm

    I believe you mean T-72B3, right?
    Serbian team as other teams used T-72B3, while Russian Team 1 got T-72B3M.
    T-72B3 has therimal imager for both gunner and commander and new radio as well as some minor upgrade, while T-72B3M has therimal imager for the gunner, Independent Thermal Viewer for the commander(in this case I believe FCS has to be upgraded) as well as 1020 hp engine.
    New mass production version T-72B3M will have therimal imager for the gunner, Independent Thermal Viewer for the commander, new FCS with auto-track and auto-lock(similar to the one on T-72B1 for Nicaragua), Relic ERA instead of K5, frontal and rear cameras for the driver, new tactics displayer for the driver, new radio and 1020hp engine of course.
    So, I agree T-72B3 is not that good, but mass production T-72B3M, which Serbian team members had no chance to meet, is a totally different machine...

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    Re: T-72 ΜΒΤ: Μodernisation and Variants

    Post  galicije83 on Tue Aug 23, 2016 7:37 pm

    T-72B3, T72B3M same shit with different name. This 2 tanks don't have full FCS (fire control system) and all upgrades is useless if FCS is bad and he is unfortunately.

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    Re: T-72 ΜΒΤ: Μodernisation and Variants

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Aug 23, 2016 8:15 pm

    galicije83 wrote:T-72B3, T72B3M same shit with different name. This 2 tanks don't have full FCS (fire control system) and all upgrades is useless if FCS is bad and he is unfortunately.

    Trolling? Cause it does get a new fcs and you state it doesn't. Care to provide proof? Or is this what you heard from a friend?

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    Re: T-72 ΜΒΤ: Μodernisation and Variants

    Post  galicije83 on Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:54 pm

    Do u have proof or u read about his FCS on this or another forum. And yes they have new FCS, but still is bad FCS. And yes my friend see that new one and speak with Russians about it.

    Also have friend who works like engineer on Yugo M-84 and he was last year in Russia to negotiate about modernization of our M84s (parts for modernization) and he also see that NEW FCS made for B3s. Its big step for the T-72 series but its far, far from modern FCS. Old T72Bs don't have FCS.....

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    Re: T-72 ΜΒΤ: Μodernisation and Variants

    Post  Militarov on Wed Aug 24, 2016 1:32 am

    galicije83 wrote:I spoke whit my good friend who participated in tank biathlon this year as part of Serbian team. Same shit like last year, with so many problems with this russian upgrade of T72 junk tank. It has bad half FCS and because of this half FCS they missed target when tank isnt on move because of wind. Our M-84s (Slovenian) who participated in Tank challenge in Germany was second in targeting from move, when all targets are moving just like tanks. Batter was just latest LEO 2A6. We made our tanks in late 80s with one of the best FCS on that time. 28 years later and this FCS is still excellent, its batter then FCS in Abrams M1A2, Italian Ariete.

    T-72 tanks are so bad after all this upgrades. It was big junk when seh was made and still is after all this years...  

    I personally know corporal Vladica Djuricic, the gunner on tank biathlon. Colonel Zeljko Kuzmanovic which led the teams last year on biathlon is an old friend of my father as he worked on tank maintenance. And none of them ever said such thing, ever. So you are making shit up.

    Only issue with tank that they had last year was before last round of targets when their auto-loader malfunctioned and after last circle they drove issue was fixed by UVZ mechanics in 15 minutes.

    Furthermore it is not true that "Old T72Bs do not have FCS", that is just simply not true and i am not sure who told you that shit, T72B (there is no such thing as "old"  T72B) has 1A40-1 fire control system. Even the bulk of T72As got to enjoy 1A40 FCS.

    Also even if the speed of wind does not reach FCS for some reason if sensor is broken for an example, that is far from cause to miss static target while yourself being static, if you missed you either suck as a gunner or sights are not zeroed at all. Even if FCS does not work at all, you still have means of using your gun aganist static targets via manual controls.

    All original FCS devices from M84/M84A in Slovenia were replaced by new Fotona EFCS3-84 fire control systems when modernisation package dubbed M84A4 Sniper was introduced, even earlier it was applied on hulls where original systems fell into disrepair due to lack of spares. Other M84s are using DNNS-2/DNNS-2A fire control system produced by Rudi Cajavec which is more or less comparable to 1A40-1 installed on T72B but has few slight advantages. Same goes for Croatia too as Cajavec couldnt/did not want to deliver supplies anymore. Improved variant of same FCS 1A40-4 is installed on T72B3M.

    Also stop talking about Fire Control System like its some kind of magic, same FCS gets new sights and sensors slaved to it everywhere in the world, with new software revisions loaded into it, case is sometimes that half tanks in same batallion have different version of software loaded, even tho hardware is identical.

    T72B3 is using its original 1A40-1 FCS but it got slaved new sensors to it TKN-3MK with image intensifier, Sosna-U, as it was developed as cheap modernisation for existing fleet of T72Bs. So somehow magically Russian crew never has issues with "shit tank" only your imaginary friends do.

    Also, you just claimed how T72B3 and T72B FCS are somehow different coz your "engineer" friend saw it.. that is not true either. FCS itself is almost identical in terms of hardware.

    Slovenia did not take second place on Strong Europe Tank Challenge, ranking was Germany>Denmark>Poland.

    Stop talking about things you know nothing whatsoever about as you are making Serbians look like imbeciles.

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    Re: T-72 ΜΒΤ: Μodernisation and Variants

    Post  galicije83 on Wed Aug 24, 2016 8:52 am

    1. Slovenia was 4th in that ETC, and was second behind Germany in target shooting. Fotona FCS is newer but not batter then the old ONE in M-84 or M-84A(B) made in late 80s and earlys 90s. Engeneer Vladimir Ivanovic is my friend he works on M84 from his first day till 1992. After that he works on chinese tanks, he works also in Kuwait on maintenance of Kuwait M-84ABs. Fotona never built batter FCS then Cajevac, and he also work on that FCS in cajevac. He new batter M-84 tank then any Serbian tankmen and officer who for on their maintenance, he offer help 2 years ago Serbian army in maintenance of our m84 and they say that his help isnt needed. Because of that we have only 40 of 212 operative tanks rest are inoperative.

    2. Bojan Dimitrijevic wright on Serbina military forum, about T-72 tanks, he also knew them very, very good. They dont have FCS or they have system they call FCS but this system is far far ahead of any systems made in 80s. Its FCS is very good that u cant hit any moving target with speed more then 15km/h. We also see T80U tanks in Greece in 1995 when they tested along side of all western tank, and when he have only 40% hit in target from moving (LEO2A5 have 90%, AMX56 have 86%...) And we all knew that T-80U tank was best tank produced in USSR. Imagine what will happens with T-72B in same test. He will hit target from move less then 20% and u say he have FCS. No mate he hasnt...

    3. In Kuwait 1991/92 Vladimir Ivanovic and his team kick ass Abrams M1A1 in similar competition like was in Germany this year. They shoot in target from move from different distance. Our M-84AB have 10 of 10 , abrams have 6 of 10. So Americans were shocked after this competitions between this 2 tanks. So if i lie lies mister Vladimir Ivanovic (i dont think that man lying about anything, because he is a great expert when it comes tanks like M-84, T-72  and Chinese new generation tank in which he also worked.

    All new version of T72B3 are cheap version of modernization but this modernization offer more then they have in old one B versions, with batter sights (modern sights) but still lack of modern FCS.....

    And one more thin about M-84 and Cajevac. Last year Croatia bought from Cajevac all their FCS, all electronics which was made in Cajevac for their M-84s just for 250 000 EUR . Now they have spare parts for more then 250 tanks, Vladimir Ivanovic first call his general friends from Serbian army and tell them that Cajevac will sell this spare parts with entire FCS and many other electronic for just 250k EUR. But some one in Serbia don't want to buy this spare parts and now we cant do proper maintenance of our M-84 because we luck of spare parts. We took one good tank and then we used parts from him to implant in the broken one. This is very smart thing to do...

    And yes FCS is magic thing of any moder tank and he is fusion of ballistic computer, modern sights, modern electronic systems and more....

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    Re: T-72 ΜΒΤ: Μodernisation and Variants

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Wed Aug 24, 2016 2:26 pm

    galicije83 wrote:1. Slovenia was 4th in that ETC, and was second behind Germany in target shooting. Fotona FCS is newer but not batter then the old ONE in M-84 or M-84A(B) made in late 80s and earlys 90s. Engeneer Vladimir Ivanovic is my friend he works on M84 from his first day till 1992. After that he works on chinese tanks, he works also in Kuwait on maintenance of Kuwait M-84ABs. Fotona never built batter FCS then Cajevac, and he also work on that FCS in cajevac. He new batter M-84 tank then any Serbian tankmen and officer who for on their maintenance, he offer help 2 years ago Serbian army in maintenance of our m84 and they say that his help isnt needed. Because of that we have only 40 of 212 operative tanks rest are inoperative.

    2. Bojan Dimitrijevic wright on Serbina military forum, about T-72 tanks, he also knew them very, very good. They dont have FCS or they have system they call FCS but this system is far far ahead of any systems made in 80s. Its FCS is very good that u cant hit any moving target with speed more then 15km/h. We also see T80U tanks in Greece in 1995 when they tested along side of all western tank, and when he have only 40% hit in target from moving (LEO2A5 have 90%, AMX56 have 86%...) And we all knew that T-80U tank was best tank produced in USSR. Imagine what will happens with T-72B in same test. He will hit target from move less then 20% and u say he have FCS. No mate he hasnt...

    3. In Kuwait 1991/92 Vladimir Ivanovic and his team kick ass Abrams M1A1 in similar competition like was in Germany this year. They shoot in target from move from different distance. Our M-84AB have 10 of 10 , abrams have 6 of 10. So Americans were shocked after this competitions between this 2 tanks. So if i lie lies mister Vladimir Ivanovic (i dont think that man lying about anything, because he is a great expert when it comes tanks like M-84, T-72  and Chinese new generation tank in which he also worked.

    All new version of T72B3 are cheap version of modernization but this modernization offer more then they have in old one B versions, with batter sights (modern sights) but still lack of modern FCS.....

    And one more thin about M-84 and Cajevac. Last year Croatia bought from Cajevac all their FCS, all electronics which was made in Cajevac for their M-84s just for 250 000 EUR . Now they have spare parts for more then 250 tanks, Vladimir Ivanovic first call his general friends from Serbian army and tell them that Cajevac will sell this spare parts with entire FCS and many other electronic for just 250k EUR. But some one in Serbia don't want to buy this spare parts and now we cant do proper maintenance of our M-84 because we luck of spare parts. We took one good tank and then we used parts from him to implant in the broken one. This is very smart thing to do...

    And yes FCS is magic thing of any moder tank and he is fusion of ballistic computer, modern sights, modern electronic systems and more....

    While I am not an expert, I have worked along side small time nations who operate T-72's and let me say this.

    All "stats" Aside. I have seen these tanks hit things on the move with pinpoint ability not at point blank range ether, I have seen them in mock battles take out Abrams before the Abrams knew it was there. I have seen abrams take them out vice versa. I'll share with you a story during a joint training op. this one T-72 crew only exposed his turret he peeked out with his gun sniped in a second then rolled back down to avoid getting hit presenting a very low target. He didn't miss once and fired fast from long range.

    I have also seen T-72 crews who couldn't hit the broadside of a house. So in my personal opinion your engineer friend doesn't know wtf he is talking about or he doesn't exist and you are making this up to justify calling the tanks shit.

    I hate when people call russian tanks shit, If war ever broke out I'd be fighting them in Europe. So I know what they are capable of, I pay very very close attention to the abilities of my possible enemy. I do think some Russian vehicles are shit sure, but their tanks? oh no.

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    Re: T-72 ΜΒΤ: Μodernisation and Variants

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Thu Aug 25, 2016 12:25 am

    Militarov wrote:
    galicije83 wrote:I spoke whit my good friend who participated in tank biathlon this year as part of Serbian team. Same shit like last year, with so many problems with this russian upgrade of T72 junk tank. It has bad half FCS and because of this half FCS they missed target when tank isnt on move because of wind. Our M-84s (Slovenian) who participated in Tank challenge in Germany was second in targeting from move, when all targets are moving just like tanks. Batter was just latest LEO 2A6. We made our tanks in late 80s with one of the best FCS on that time. 28 years later and this FCS is still excellent, its batter then FCS in Abrams M1A2, Italian Ariete.

    T-72 tanks are so bad after all this upgrades. It was big junk when seh was made and still is after all this years...  

    I personally know corporal Vladica Djuricic, the gunner on tank biathlon. Colonel Zeljko Kuzmanovic which led the teams last year on biathlon is an old friend of my father as he worked on tank maintenance. And none of them ever said such thing, ever. So you are making shit up.

    Only issue with tank that they had last year was before last round of targets when their auto-loader malfunctioned and after last circle they drove issue was fixed by UVZ mechanics in 15 minutes.

    Furthermore it is not true that "Old T72Bs do not have FCS", that is just simply not true and i am not sure who told you that shit, T72B (there is no such thing as "old"  T72B) has 1A40-1 fire control system. Even the bulk of T72As got to enjoy 1A40 FCS.

    Also even if the speed of wind does not reach FCS for some reason if sensor is broken for an example, that is far from cause to miss static target while yourself being static, if you missed you either suck as a gunner or sights are not zeroed at all. Even if FCS does not work at all, you still have means of using your gun aganist static targets via manual controls.

    All original FCS devices from M84/M84A in Slovenia were replaced by new Fotona EFCS3-84 fire control systems when modernisation package dubbed M84A4 Sniper was introduced, even earlier it was applied on hulls where original systems fell into disrepair due to lack of spares. Other M84s are using DNNS-2/DNNS-2A fire control system produced by Rudi Cajavec which is more or less comparable to 1A40-1 installed on T72B but has few slight advantages. Same goes for Croatia too as Cajavec couldnt/did not want to deliver supplies anymore. Improved variant of same FCS 1A40-4 is installed on T72B3M.

    Also stop talking about Fire Control System like its some kind of magic, same FCS gets new sights and sensors slaved to it everywhere in the world, with new software revisions loaded into it, case is sometimes that half tanks in same batallion have different version of software loaded, even tho hardware is identical.

    T72B3 is using its original 1A40-1 FCS but it got slaved new sensors to it TKN-3MK with image intensifier, Sosna-U, as it was developed as cheap modernisation for existing fleet of T72Bs. So somehow magically Russian crew never has issues with "shit tank" only your imaginary friends do.

    Also, you just claimed how T72B3 and T72B FCS are somehow  different coz your "engineer" friend saw it.. that is not true either. FCS itself is almost identical in terms of hardware.

    Slovenia did not take second place on Strong Europe Tank Challenge, ranking was Germany>Denmark>Poland.

    Stop talking about things you know nothing whatsoever about as you are making Serbians look like imbeciles.

    Oh holy Jebus he's back.

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    Re: T-72 ΜΒΤ: Μodernisation and Variants

    Post  galicije83 on Thu Aug 25, 2016 2:01 pm

    This is Vladimir Ivanovic, Yugo engineer who works on Yugo tank M-84, then he work in chine on their Type 96 tank, call him Srpski tenk Vihor 2 or Serbian Vihor tank 2.

    https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/serbian-type-96.t3813/

    Vladimir in Kuwait and Yugo 84AB in back of him..


    This man is real and he knows very good what he talk about T-72 tanks or T-80 tanks.

    He help chines to made their Type 96...O i forgot he also works on paksitan tank Al khalid...


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    Re: T-72 ΜΒΤ: Μodernisation and Variants

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Aug 25, 2016 3:06 pm

    So if it is great, why does the type 96 fail to achieve the success? T-72B3M on other hand.

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    Re: T-72 ΜΒΤ: Μodernisation and Variants

    Post  galicije83 on Thu Aug 25, 2016 4:00 pm

    What success? In tank biathlon, really...

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    Re: T-72 ΜΒΤ: Μodernisation and Variants

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Aug 25, 2016 4:21 pm

    So militarov provided counter info and states your friend is full of it while his actually participated in the biathlon. So who is full of shit? I would wager you are as Militarov actually proved to be reliable multiple of times.

    And yes, shooting is part of the Biathlon and thus FCS is needed.

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    Re: T-72 ΜΒΤ: Μodernisation and Variants

    Post  Militarov on Thu Aug 25, 2016 6:14 pm

    galicije83 wrote:1. Slovenia was 4th in that ETC, and was second behind Germany in target shooting. Fotona FCS is newer but not batter then the old ONE in M-84 or M-84A(B) made in late 80s and earlys 90s. Engeneer Vladimir Ivanovic is my friend he works on M84 from his first day till 1992. After that he works on chinese tanks, he works also in Kuwait on maintenance of Kuwait M-84ABs. Fotona never built batter FCS then Cajevac, and he also work on that FCS in cajevac. He new batter M-84 tank then any Serbian tankmen and officer who for on their maintenance, he offer help 2 years ago Serbian army in maintenance of our m84 and they say that his help isnt needed. Because of that we have only 40 of 212 operative tanks rest are inoperative.

    2. Bojan Dimitrijevic wright on Serbina military forum, about T-72 tanks, he also knew them very, very good. They dont have FCS or they have system they call FCS but this system is far far ahead of any systems made in 80s. Its FCS is very good that u cant hit any moving target with speed more then 15km/h. We also see T80U tanks in Greece in 1995 when they tested along side of all western tank, and when he have only 40% hit in target from moving (LEO2A5 have 90%, AMX56 have 86%...) And we all knew that T-80U tank was best tank produced in USSR. Imagine what will happens with T-72B in same test. He will hit target from move less then 20% and u say he have FCS. No mate he hasnt...

    3. In Kuwait 1991/92 Vladimir Ivanovic and his team kick ass Abrams M1A1 in similar competition like was in Germany this year. They shoot in target from move from different distance. Our M-84AB have 10 of 10 , abrams have 6 of 10. So Americans were shocked after this competitions between this 2 tanks. So if i lie lies mister Vladimir Ivanovic (i dont think that man lying about anything, because he is a great expert when it comes tanks like M-84, T-72  and Chinese new generation tank in which he also worked.

    All new version of T72B3 are cheap version of modernization but this modernization offer more then they have in old one B versions, with batter sights (modern sights) but still lack of modern FCS.....

    And one more thin about M-84 and Cajevac. Last year Croatia bought from Cajevac all their FCS, all electronics which was made in Cajevac for their M-84s just for 250 000 EUR . Now they have spare parts for more then 250 tanks, Vladimir Ivanovic first call his general friends from Serbian army and tell them that Cajevac will sell this spare parts with entire FCS and many other electronic for just 250k EUR. But some one in Serbia don't want to buy this spare parts and now we cant do proper maintenance of our M-84 because we luck of spare parts. We took one good tank and then we used parts from him to implant in the broken one. This is very smart thing to do...

    And yes FCS is magic thing of any moder tank and he is fusion of ballistic computer, modern sights, modern electronic systems and more....

    This year on biathlon our crew wasnt satisfied with ammount of practice ammunition they got, which was 3 shells per tank, and 20 bullets per MG, some other crews had more as they bought their own ammunition, last year they had more ammunition on their disposal. Tank with which they started competition had issues most likely with gyroscope from what i understood, so crew got reserve tank instead which worked normally.

    First of all he is not your friend, you met him on some random forum. Vladimir is really not "an engineer", he is a mechanic, good, very good mechanic and nothing more. He likes attention however and has ego big like Cremlin walls, which costed him alot though his life and career as he had issues more than once because of it. Half of the terms he likes to use, he does not have an actual real knowledge of what they mean, he knows what they are however he is not the person that knows the math behind majority of them, he knows how to fix things, he does not know how to "make" things. 99% of things he will reveal to you on third rate forums as "this is highly sensitive, only i know this, and maybe one more guy in Zagreb", is actually written in M84 manuals that you can these  days buy online if you are lucky... so.. spare me of those tales, my father had to deal with a guy for 15 years.

    Thing is there are not many surviving persons from that era that actually mattered something in M84 project, so he can claim alot of things without anyone there to confirm or say otherwise. My father said many good things about him, however there are many things he claims that are either not or partially true.

    Look at him like very good car mechanic that thinks he can build better cars than Mercedes in his garage. Chants of his last 20 years about his "system to prevent tank from taking soil in his gun bore", like its landing of the moon.

    Best are naturally his stories about Pakistan or China, God will forgive me i dont remember, about driving tank 40km/h and hitting targets 2000m away that way so 3 shells went though same hole, which i wont even comment as its not worth it.

    There was at least hundred men that worked same job as he did, they just never went to forums, my father included. Also he always went to Pakistan, China, India, Iran, Kuwait as part of a team that some company assembled, mostly doing maintenance. He is not "making tanks" he was there due to equipment from Yugoslavia that was installed, it has nothing whatsoever to do with fact "how good he is". Fun fact, majority of his education regarding tanks is thanks to his education in USSR.

    Fotona FCS installed on Slovenian tanks actually is superior to ones sold to Croatia, simply as it was..well..cheaper. Fotona anyways these days does not exist, at least not in same shape it existed decade ago.

    Now, 1A46 FCS of T80U is actually overall better than one Yugoslavia had on M84s, put aside fact majority of equipment it had slaved to it was ahead, first T80s had balistic computer but not FCS so to say and they from my knowledge were not around by the mid 80s.

    Now when its about famous Greece tank competition, it was in 2005/2006 not 1996. and from what i remember only released source for it was some random PDF from Ukrainians with rather random data shortly stating they were not shining in it with their T84. Later on forums "leaked" info how T80U variant had "47% overall accuracy with first shot" which is sort of hard to belive if everything was working properly on it. Also Greece held multiple "tank trials" though last 20 years, some even having Centurion in them.

    Also stop confusing T72A, M, M1 and B and then randomly bringing T80 into whole story, its sort of humiliating. There is big difference among their equipment especially in terms of rangefinders, wind sensors (lack of it)...

    Also ask yourself, on which T72 tanks did our dear Vladimir work, chance is that he never saw T72B in his life, as you should be aware T72Ms were delivered to Yugoslavia, whos balistic computer requires some manual labor. Same goes for India, Iran... everywhere he worked he was working with T55, T62, T72M, T72M1... you anyways can ask him Smile

    I have no plans to continue this pointless discussion anyways, i just decided to react to false information someone here tried to sell as a fact.

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    Re: T-72 ΜΒΤ: Μodernisation and Variants

    Post  Werewolf on Thu Aug 25, 2016 7:01 pm

    Few days off and i see funny things happening...

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    Re: T-72 ΜΒΤ: Μodernisation and Variants

    Post  Austin on Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:04 pm

    T-72 - Second Life of a legend

    http://nvo.ng.ru/armament/2016-09-09/8_tank.html

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    Re: T-72 ΜΒΤ: Μodernisation and Variants

    Post  airstrike on Thu Sep 29, 2016 1:48 pm

    Russia's Uralvagonzavod displays heavily modernized T-72

    http://echelon-defense.com/2016/09/29/russias-uralvagonzavod-shows-heavily-modernized-t-72/

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    Re: T-72 ΜΒΤ: Μodernisation and Variants

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