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    An-124 Strategic Transport: News

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:58 am

    What a strange reply...

    Some of the foreign influenced jihadists in Chechnia were sent to hell, but AFAIK none were sent to Siberia...
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:21 am

    I'm referring to what happened to them under Stalin.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Chechens_and_Ingush

    Please stop the superficial & shallow understanding of my arguments.
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:39 am

    Please stop the superficial & shallow understanding of my arguments.

    I am being superficial and shallow?

    You are suggesting that in the future the Ukraine would be split between Russia and Poland, and that any dissenters could be sent to a Siberian gulag where they can't cause any problems...

    ...so who is being weird... considering Stalin is dead and as far as I am aware Putin is not Stalin, and even if he was, pissed off foreign dissidents are the last thing Russia needs on its border with China... send those cocksuckers to the land of the free that promised them milk and honey.... give them green cards to the US.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:54 am

    Not to GULAG, but those potential troublemakers could be more useful East of the Urals, & the best agricultural lands in the FE r along the Chinese border. Give them jobs, land, a chance of peaceful life & they'll be content. After a few years, they'll appreciate how good they had it in Ukraine & regret being brainwashed by their nationalist ideology.
    Many refugees from Donbass were taken to Magadan & elsewhere to fill local acute labor shortages.
    Even many of the Russian oil engineers don't want to work in Siberia & they have to hire Filipinos & others from abroad.
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:36 am

    Yeah... the best kept secret in the world... Siberia on the Chinese border is utopia... people would be flocking to get there if they only knew...

    Stalin did it as a form of punishment, but now they have free wifi...

    Better idea... Russia should offer to take all the wests worst offender prisoners.... people who would normally be executed for their crimes... but killing people is wrong... they just need hugs.... hugs for thugs... and build a huge prison right in the middle if Siberia.

    A tracking tag should be inserted somewhere where it can never be removed and put them in a prison... and mark off a perimeter for them... say 40 square kms where they are allowed to live.

    Anyone detected outside that perimeter for what ever reason can be shot on site.

    Sell contracts to chase down escapers to rich Americans who want to kill people legally... get a bounty hunters badge... hell you could be a real bastard about it and have different prisoner signals for jewish people, for arabs, for blacks and whites and asians etc etc so you could go get a contract to hunt down a minority of your choice and shoot them.

    Of course it would need serious management... otherwise you could get your mates to get your contract and instead of hunting you down and shooting you they could come and rescue you...

    Of course anyone who tries to run will likely be killed by the environment... especially those from tropical countries not used to the cold.

    It would be a great solution for Asian countries that are put under enormous western pressure when they arrest drug smugglers from a western country.

    It pisses me off when some Kiwi or Aussie gets caught in some asian country smuggling drugs and they seem to think our governments should get them off their prison time or death sentence... screw them.

    Anyway, this is off topic...
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:45 pm

    Siberia on the Chinese border is utopia... people would be flocking to get there if they only knew...
    Not paradise & utopia, but since the 1600s, the ancestors of most non-natives & other Asians there were Cossacks, soldiers, convicts, exiles, railroaders, & sailors. The Jewish Autonomous Oblast was set up in 1928 & the settlers helped develop it. ..the area had been chosen for military and economic reasons. This area was often infiltrated by China, while Japan also wanted Russia to lose the provinces of the Soviet Far East. At the time, there were only about 30,000 inhabitants in the area, mostly descendants of Trans-Baikal Cossacks resettled there by tsarist authorities, Koreans, Kazakhs, and the Tungusic peoples. The Soviet government wanted to increase settlement in the remote Soviet Far East, especially along the vulnerable border with China. General Pavel Sudoplatov writes about the government's rationale behind picking the area in the Far East: ″The establishment of the Jewish Autonomous Oblast in Birobidzhan in 1928 was ordered by Stalin only as an effort to strengthen the Far Eastern border region with an outpost, not as a favour to the Jews. The area was constantly penetrated by Chinese and White Russian terrorist groups, and the idea was to shield the territory by establishing a settlement whose inhabitants would be hostile to White Russian émigrés, especially the Cossacks. The status of this region was defined shrewdly as an autonomous district, not an autonomous republic, which meant that no local legislature, high court, or government post of ministerial rank was permitted. It was an autonomous area, but a bare frontier, not a political center.″..
    The new territory was initially called the Birobidzhan Jewish National Raion.
    Birobidzhan had a harsh geography and climate: it was mountainous, covered with virgin forests of oak, pine and cedar, and also swamplands, and any new settlers would have to build their lives from scratch. To make colonization more enticing, the Soviet government allowed private land-ownership. This led to many non-Jews settling in the oblast to get a free farm.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Autonomous_Oblast#Establishment_of_the_JAO
    The Jewish Autonomous Oblast is part of the Far Eastern Economic Region; it has well-developed industry and agriculture and a dense transportation network. Its status as a free economic zone increases the opportunities for economic development. The oblast's rich mineral and building and finishing material resources are in great demand on the Russian market. Nonferrous metallurgy, engineering, metalworking, and the building material, forest, woodworking, light, and food industries are the most highly developed industrial sectors.
    Agriculture is the Jewish Autonomous Oblast's main economic sector owing to fertile soils and a moist climate.
    The largest companies in the region include Kimkano - Sutarsky Mining and Processing Plant (with revenues of $116.56 million in 2017), Teploozersky Cement Plant ($29.14 million) and Brider Trading House ($24 million).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Autonomous_Oblast#Economy

    Today, the Chinese operate large farms there.
    Big remote camps there r not economical- the net profit gained from what inmates can produce/extract won't cover the cost of feeding & guarding them. Instead of going West to earn $ & being treated as slaves in the EU, those Galicians & Volynians can go to sparsely populated East & earn a better living w/o leaving their Slavic Orthodox country/culture.
    I don't know about NZ, but Australia was also partly settled by convicts & others "at the end of the rope"! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convicts_in_Australia
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:41 pm

    Initially New Zealand was governed by Australia...

    Regarding convicts going to Australia... it was a case of out of sight out of mind... most of the crimes were trivial, and while life was hard initially I bet their descendants are glad they were sent away from europe.

    There is a problem however... for the British authorities, they were sending people from civilised Britain to savage backward Australia as a punishment... and their treatment when they got to Australia was as prisoners... not settlers.

    There were plenty of settlers who went to Australia too, but their experiences were different because they were not in chains and were free to do as they pleased most of the time.

    The basic issue is that sending dissenters to the Russian far east is not an issue today and would actually be counter productive... I doubt pissed off Ukrainians sent to the Chinese border would lift a finger to save any Russian territory... they would more likely sell it off to the highest bidder in a heart beat.

    Putin wouldn't consider it... sounds like something Trump would do.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:57 pm

    Every year, there r still some British voluntarily going Down Under for good!
    Agribusiness in Central Russia needs many extra hands; there's a big labor shortage in general, not just in Siberia/FE, where it is more severe due to emigration from the region in the last 29 years.
    Kamchatka now welcomes many migrant laborers from C. Asia!
    Ukrainians there would be watched & not tasked defending the border, since China isn't interested in steering trouble that's not worth the intended result. They could be sent even farther to Sakhalin & Kuril Islands to shore them up.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:28 am

    the IL-106 didn't cancel it:
    An-124 Strategic Transport: News - Page 8 Getasset
    Russian analysts model 'Slon' outsize freighter
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Jan 26, 2019 7:10 am

    Every year, there r still some British voluntarily going Down Under for good!

    Would love to see the faces of the ones that moved this year... temperatures in Oz have been up near the 50s... some places over 45 degrees for several days on end...

    Agribusiness in Central Russia needs many extra hands; there's a big labor shortage in general, not just in Siberia/FE, where it is more severe due to emigration from the region in the last 29 years.

    You don't solve that problem by sending people who need to be watched because the people watching aren't picking fruit and digging veges...

    They could be sent even farther to Sakhalin & Kuril Islands to shore them up.

    Send them to America or Canada... they will be happy and they will stay there and wont be a problem for Russia any more.

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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Sat Jan 26, 2019 8:32 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:the IL-106 didn't cancel it:
    An-124 Strategic Transport: News - Page 8 Getasset
    Russian analysts model 'Slon' outsize freighter
    The Il-106 should have been manly a replacement the An-22. Probably in the upgraded version, with more powerful engines than the originally planned NK-93 and similar cargo size as the An-124, it will be able to perform most of the missions that now only the Ruslan can do.

    The Slon will arrive later and could be something between An-124 and An-225...
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sun Jan 27, 2019 6:54 pm

    You don't solve that problem by sending people who need to be watched because the people watching aren't picking fruit and digging veges...
    No additional security personnel is needed there: they'll be required to regularly check in with local police probation officers & be issued special IDs; passport/ID control will be done on all transport & by the traffic police roadblocks too, if those that try to leave those remote areas w/o a special permission will be arrested, fined & returned to their assigned areas, & if they try again, sent to local prison labor/army camps &/ across Russia, where there is no shortage of work.
    Yes, they can illegally cross on foot/boat into China, Japan or NK & will immediately stand out there; if they r not deported, good luck acclimating to totally new life while still remaining slaves to whomever hires them! Or they can try to hide in the taiga like the Old Believers did & scratch a living there among bears, lynxes, tigers, wolves & wolverines- UAVs, SAR helos, geologists, game wardens, & local hunters/trappers will find them eventually. A few decades ago, geologists in Altai spotted a potato field in the remote taiga from a helo; it was cultivated by a family that was cut off from civilization since 1936(!): https://www.thevintagenews.com/2016/10/31/a-russian-family-was-isolated-for-more-than-40-years-completely-unaware-of-ww2/

    The Slon will arrive later and could be something between An-124 and An-225...
    Just in time to replace some older An-124s; it will be more capable with its longer range & payload.
    Moscow's Central Aerohydrodynamic Institute (TsAGI) states that the aircraft would able to transport 150t of freight over a range of up to 3,780nm (7,000km), operating off a 3,000m (9,840ft) runway.
    But it would be able to handle a maximum commercial load of 180t – with which it could operate over a distance of 2,645nm.
    The institute says this performance means the aircraft could compete not only with the An-124 but also more modern freighters including the Boeing 747-8F.
    It states that the main geometric and weight parameters of the concept aircraft "have been determined" and that two variants are being considered, with differing deck widths. ..
    During the recent MAKS air show in Moscow, freight specialist Volga-Dnepr outlined its requirements for a replacement for the An-124 – of which it operates a dozen.
    It stated that a new freighter needs to be 35-40% more efficient, with a payload capability of up to 170t.
    TsAGI points out that a heavy transport needs to be compatible, in economic terms, with cargo versions of passenger aircraft models.

    http://airsoc.com/articles/view/id/59808c843d2d2e95728b4567/picture-institute-shows-off-concept-for-an-124-successor


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:50 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : add a quote)
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:45 am

    The Il-106 should have been manly a replacement the An-22. Probably in the upgraded version, with more powerful engines than the originally planned NK-93 and similar cargo size as the An-124, it will be able to perform most of the missions that now only the Ruslan can do.

    The Slon will arrive later and could be something between An-124 and An-225...

    From the article it looks like it is supposed to be a modular design that can have different length and importantly width fuselages along with different numbers of engines and wing sizes to allow bigger and smaller aircraft to be based on the design.

    The Il-106 was certainly intended as an An-22 replacement but the An-22 was heavily used and popular as being able to carry things smaller aircraft couldn't carry and being more often needed than something bigger like the An-124.

    With the An-22 gone now if you need something bigger than a Il-76 then there is only the An-124... so if the payload is 65 tons then you need to go with the big heavy An-124 that could carry twice that...

    No additional security personnel is needed there: they'll be required to regularly check in with local police probation officers & be issued special IDs; passport/ID control will be done on all transport & by the traffic police roadblocks too, if those that try to leave those remote areas w/o a special permission will be arrested, fined & returned to their assigned areas, & if they try again, sent to local prison labor/army camps &/ across Russia, where there is no shortage of work.

    Quicker and easier to just execute them... lower management overheads. Less risk.

    Just having people there is not a solution to anything, and if they agitate and create problems for other people living there they could easily become a real liability... if they are criminals then put them in a real jail. If they are undesirables then make the west think they are political prisoners and offer then green cards and get all sorts of prizes from Nobel and get on the cover of Time magazine...

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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:07 am

    The Il-106 was certainly intended as an An-22 replacement..
    Not only. There r only ~11 An-22s active in the AF & a few more Volga-Dnepr, designing & producing even 2-3 dozen Il-106s just to replace them & bring their former fleet #s back isn't worth it. More feasible would be restarting An-22 production under a different name with modern avionics & modernized engines.
    More Il-106s will be produced to eventually replace Il-76s with these more capable planes. Who said they won't come in 2-3 different variants?
    Quicker and easier to just execute them... lower management overheads. Less risk.
    Russia doesn't have the death penalty. Besides, if there r a lot of them, rehabilitating them is better. Special settlements could be created similar to those the Chechens & other exiles had in C. Asia, with minimal or no contact with others.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:55 am

    Pl. see my update post: http://www.russiadefence.net/t4675p50-il-106-heavy-military-transport-news#244506

    Past projects:
    http://www.frequentflyers.ru/2019/03/15/su_ne_bylo_4/?utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fzen.yandex.com


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:13 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add link)

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