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    Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

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    Hole

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  Hole on Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:03 pm

    And it would be difficult to find enough space for the bombs/weapons.
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:54 pm

    Put conformal fuel tanks to make more room. Why not?
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    Hole

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  Hole on Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:37 am

    The Su-17M4 could carry 4 tons but could carry not the full load on the MBD3-U6-68 bomb racks because on the Ground some bombs would block the main gear doors.
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    Hole

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  Hole on Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:38 am


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    GarryB

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  GarryB on Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:00 am

    the new Kh-50 not in service only some first infos is not anti-ships

    No it is not... but then the Su-34 is not in Naval Aviation service yet either... only Su-30s.

    The Kh-50 is intended for internal carriage on the upgraded Tu-22M3M, so it is clearly intended for the land and naval strike roles.

    And it would be difficult to find enough space for the bombs/weapons.

    Exactly... these weights are theoretical... and today with new modern weapons often lighter than older weapons it is actually hard to get to max weight.

    Case in point, the Su-33 has a weapon weight limit of 6.5 tons... now the Su-33 can't carry external fuel tanks and the heaviest external store it can carry is a 500kg iron bomb... so even if all 12 weapon hard points had a 500kg bomb attached... that is three tons.

    Sure, some of its weapon pylons could carry twin bombs but most of its weapon pylons can't carry 500kg bombs and can only carry much lighter AAMs.

    Originally the Su-33 was supposed to be able to carry the 4.5 ton Moskit under its two centreline pylons, plus a couple of AAMs, but today there is only the 500kg bombs... and with Gefest & T avionics it would normally carry two bombs at most.

    Put conformal fuel tanks to make more room. Why not?

    It is still pretty limited as to what it could carry.
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    Isos

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  Isos on Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:53 am

    Kh-50 will probably have antiship capabilities. With much better electronics than before, missiles are becoming multi-role.

    Oniks and kh-35, even older Granit, proved to have land attack mode.

    So instead of having a stock of antiship and a stock of land attack missiles, they will have one stock of missiles capable of anything. Even s-400, buk, pantsirs could be able to attack land and sea targets. For buk it is sure.

    Labrador

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  Labrador on Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:33 pm

    Isos wrote:Kh-50 will probably have antiship capabilities. With much better electronics than before, missiles are becoming multi-role.

    Oniks and kh-35, even older Granit, proved to have land attack mode.

    So instead of having a stock of antiship and a stock of land attack missiles, they will have one stock of missiles capable of anything. Even s-400, buk, pantsirs could be able to attack land and sea targets. For buk it is sure.

    Not agree for Kh-50 never see it in more too soon to say and in addition similar to Kh-101 not antiship it is a LACM as Tomahawk, AGM-86, KD-20 etc...
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  miketheterrible on Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:52 pm

    I think some anti ship missiles have to have a degree of speed difference. Mind you, Yakhont (Onyx) was shown to hit land targets in Syria as well as it's inherently a antishio missile, as well as it's supersonic.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  GarryB on Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:39 pm

    It is not the case that anti ship missiles have found to have land attack capabilities.

    Those land attack capabilities have actually been added...

    Recently a Kh-35U has been tested against land targets too.

    Modern cruise missiles have terminal guidance to improve accuracy down to a level to make them useful against point targets without needing to have a nuclear warhead.

    As such most modern cruise missiles can also be used against ships because a ship on the water is something most terminal guidance systems can detect and make out.

    Not agree for Kh-50 never see it in more too soon to say and in addition similar to Kh-101 not antiship it is a LACM as Tomahawk, AGM-86, KD-20 etc...

    The Tu-22M3M is intended for land attack and naval attack duties... unlike the Su-34, which is land based strike... the Su-32 was the naval version... until they used that number for a improved version of the Su-26 trainer/aerobatics aircraft.
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    Isos

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  Isos on Fri Sep 28, 2018 2:38 pm

    Labrador wrote:
    Isos wrote:Kh-50 will probably have antiship capabilities. With much better electronics than before, missiles are becoming multi-role.

    Oniks and kh-35, even older Granit, proved to have land attack mode.

    So instead of having a stock of antiship and a stock of land attack missiles, they will have one stock of missiles capable of anything. Even s-400, buk, pantsirs could be able to attack land and sea targets. For buk it is sure.

    Not agree for Kh-50 never see it in more too soon to say and in addition similar to Kh-101 not antiship it is a LACM as Tomahawk, AGM-86, KD-20 etc...

    Kh-101 has nothing to do with kh-50. Kh-101 is improved kh-55 which has an antiship version. No one knows if kh-101 can or can't be used as antiship missile. No one though oniks was capable of hiting land target untill they hit land targets in syria.

    Kh-50 is in development which means an all new missile. If they were happy with previous test of multi role missiles like oniks and kh-35 they will make it multurole.

    Instead of having a stock of 100 antiship kh-55 and 100 kh-101 for land attack you can buy 150-200 kh-50 to have a capacity increased by two for both roles. And no need to produce two different version. Moreover if they add a radar inside it could also be used as anti radar.

    Modern chips and memories allow to extend usefullness of missiles by just programming both capacities.


    You can expect such thing also for R-77M. I have seen a brochure that says even older r-77 can be used for ground attack as anti radar missiles. New one could potentialy be used as anti ship missile. R-37 would be just as good as kh-31 against ship or vetter because it flis very high and does a top attack. Ships with limited AD can't do lot against that sort of missiles.

    Labrador

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  Labrador on Fri Sep 28, 2018 4:35 pm

    Isos wrote:
    Labrador wrote:
    Isos wrote:Kh-50 will probably have antiship capabilities. With much better electronics than before, missiles are becoming multi-role.

    Oniks and kh-35, even older Granit, proved to have land attack mode.

    So instead of having a stock of antiship and a stock of land attack missiles, they will have one stock of missiles capable of anything. Even s-400, buk, pantsirs could be able to attack land and sea targets. For buk it is sure.

    Not agree for Kh-50 never see it in more too soon to say and in addition similar to Kh-101 not antiship it is a LACM as Tomahawk, AGM-86, KD-20 etc...

    Kh-101 has nothing to do with kh-50. Kh-101 is improved kh-55 which has an antiship version. No one knows if kh-101 can or can't be used as antiship missile. No one though oniks was capable of hiting land target untill they hit land targets in syria.

    Kh-50 is in development which means an all new missile. If they were happy with previous test of multi role missiles like oniks and kh-35 they will make it multurole.

    Instead of having a stock of 100 antiship kh-55 and 100 kh-101 for land attack you can buy 150-200 kh-50 to have a capacity increased by two for both roles. And no need to produce two different version. Moreover if they add a radar inside it could also be used as anti radar.

    Modern chips and memories allow to extend usefullness of missiles by just programming both capacities.


    You can expect such thing also for R-77M. I have seen a brochure that says even older r-77 can be used for ground attack as anti radar missiles. New one could potentialy be used as anti ship missile. R-37 would be just as good as kh-31 against ship or vetter because it flis very high and does a top attack. Ships with limited AD can't do lot against that sort of missiles.


    Your sources are ?  i can't post links but on militaryrussia.ru nothing for antiship and i have see others good stuff and it's the same
    in addition it is not certain this missile will be built* znd with an enough limited budget prority is for Borei and Yars.
    During many years i have see infos Kh-101 soon in service...

    [quote="construction - no information / militaryrussia.ru"]
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    Isos

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  Isos on Fri Sep 28, 2018 5:28 pm

    No source. The missile is still in production. I'm just guessing. If they managed to make an oniks able to attack ground targets, why not make the kh-50 able to hit ships ?

    They add this dual capability to kh-35, to oniks and even tested land attack mode on old granit. Why wouldn't they make kh-50 able to attack ships and land ?
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    Hole

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  Hole on Fri Sep 28, 2018 5:55 pm

    Difference is that Oniks and Kh-35U have an radar seeker while Kh-101 and Kh-50 have TERCOM + optical system. It is easier for a radar to see big things on the ground then for a small camera to find a ship out in the ocean.
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    Isos

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  Isos on Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:01 pm

    Hole wrote:Difference is that Oniks and Kh-35U have an radar seeker while Kh-101 and Kh-50 have TERCOM + optical system. It is easier for a radar to see big things on the ground then for a small camera to find a ship out in the ocean.

    Kh-50 is in development. So if from the start they make it multirole, it isn't an issue.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:27 am

    Isos wrote:
    Kh-50 is in development. So if from the start they make it multirole, it isn't an issue.

    True, but Kh-50 is subsonic and stealth. Not sure if its better AShM then hypersonic GZUR (same range and ~size)
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  miketheterrible on Sat Sep 29, 2018 8:25 am

    What is Gzur?
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    Isos

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  Isos on Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:15 am

    miketheterrible wrote:What is Gzur?

    Hypersonic air launched antiship missile.

    True, but Kh-50 is subsonic and stealth. Not sure if its better AShM then hypersonic GZUR (same range and ~size)

    Not every target needs an hypersonic missile to be destroyed. Why do you think they have kh-35 ?
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    Hole

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  Hole on Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:23 am

    A good mix is the best solution.
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    Isos

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  Isos on Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:52 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:The Su-34 fighter aircraft launched the newest anti-ship missiles X-35U "with max range over 250 км".

    https://mobile.twitter.com/RALee85/status/1046029970022309888

    Can someone post the pictures here. I can't.

    Impact images of kh-35U.

    If it was a hit at the waterline, crew would have a hard time fixing the hole. Now imagine a warhead two time bigger which goes 3 times the speed of kh-35 Shocked
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    JohninMK

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  JohninMK on Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:10 pm

    In one side out the other.







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    Isos

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  Isos on Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:22 pm

    Intersting how it hit just where the crew is. When the buk downed the airliner in Ukraine it also hit the front where the crew is.

    This way you touch the ship and the crew so if you don't destroy the ship you kill the crew and the system used to drive the ship. A kh-35 alone won't be able to destroy a destroyer but it will make it inoperative by touching the crew. Just like if the buk don't destroy the plane, it can still kill the pilots and let it crash. Very sneaky.
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    LMFS

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  LMFS on Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:15 am

    Isos wrote:Intersting how it hit just where the crew is. When the buk downed the airliner in Ukraine it also hit the front where the crew is.

    This way you touch the ship and the crew so if you don't destroy the ship you kill the crew and the system used to drive the ship. A kh-35 alone won't be able to destroy a destroyer but it will make it inoperative by touching the crew. Just like if the buk don't destroy the plane, it can still kill the pilots and let it crash. Very sneaky.

    The hint would be even stronger if they had hit exactly the bridge. If you have precision for that you can "decapitate" a big vessel with a relatively small warhead.
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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:36 am

    LMFS wrote:

    The hint would be even stronger if they had hit exactly the bridge. If you have precision for that you can "decapitate" a big vessel with a relatively small warhead.

    de-capitan-nate lol1 lol1 lol1
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    George1

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  George1 on Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:47 am

    Two more Su-34 front-line bombers transferred to Russian Aerospace Forces

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3382411.html

    Both transferred now to the 2nd bomber regiment of the Su-34 aircraft manufactured by the NAP under a contract with the Russian Ministry of Defense dated February 2012 for 92 such aircraft. With their delivery, the total number of aircraft of this type transferred to the VKS under the contract of 2012 reached 78 units. The first two Su-34s under this contract were transferred to Novosibirsk by the Russian Air Force on December 24, 2013, the next 18 aircraft - in 2014, another 18 aircraft - in 2015, 16 - in 2016, 16 - in 2017, and by now eight - in 2018. In total, in 2018, the delivery of 12 new Su-34 bombers is expected. The total number of Su-34s built under all contracts, including seven prototypes and pre-production samples, has now reached 121 units.


    Last edited by George1 on Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:05 am; edited 2 times in total
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    George1

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  George1 on Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:04 am

    Some conflicting points, maybe AMCXXL could help

    With the last delivered in early September the total number was 111, so now should be 113 not 121-7=114 that article says.

    AMCXXL wrote:https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3334146.html
    The deployment of Su-34 to Chelyabinsk airbase has begun
    Three airplanes just landed in Chelyabinsk airfield.
    Of these three airplanes, Nº08 was already transferred to the VKS in May, and had been in Lípetsk until now.

    In addition also have arrived the Nº09 and the Nº10 that at the end of August were still in the factory of Novosibirsk, therefore in number of airplanes transferred to the VKS in September it is of 2, which raises to 111 the number of serial aircraft in service



    Also i have counted 6 planes delivered for 2018, not 8. Maybe they count for 2018 the 2 planes in the framework of the state defense order of 2017 delivered in early January?

    AMCXXL wrote:
    George1 wrote:Sukhoi transferred a 1st batch of Su-34 aircraft to the Russia MoD in 2018. Aircraft took off from the Novosibirsk Aviation Plant V.P. Chkalov airport (Tolmachevo) & flew to the site of their deployment.

    http://www.sukhoi.org/news/company/?id=5954

    The Sukhoi Company has transferred the next generation of new serial front-line bombers Su-34

    Moscow, January 12, 2018. Today, the company "Sukhoi" transferred the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation the next batch of Su-34 front bombers in the framework of the state defense order of 2017 . The aircraft took off from the aerodrome of the Novosibirsk Aviation Plant. V.P. Chkalov and went to the site of his deployment



    This are the two "lost" airplanes of the plan of 2017 that are transferred with several days of delay. (the administrative act of acceptance of the product was in December within the term of the calendar year of whose planning they are part)
    Better not to make much case of bmpd that copy of Russian forums but copy wrong

    The No. 35 and No. 36 returned from Syria at the end of December, they are not the new airplanes handed over on November 18. There was a rotation of airplanes between those deployed in Syria



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