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    Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

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    medo
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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  medo on Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:44 pm

    Also Su-34 is larger plane and have larger and more sophisticated defensive electronics, just look at its large tail boom. It is designed for strike role.

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  Viktor on Wed Aug 31, 2011 6:43 pm

    medo wrote:Also Su-34 is larger plane and have larger and more sophisticated defensive electronics, just look at its large tail boom. It is designed for strike role.

    - Its not that bigger cozz Su-34 is being develop from the same "base" as Su-35

    - Meaning its range/combat radius is similar as max loaded weight and hard points.

    - Same ECM of any type can be installed on Su-35 also so I dont se the point?

    - What about tail boom?


    Last edited by Viktor on Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:43 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  Viktor on Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:43 pm

    GarryB wrote:Have you ever been on a long distance bus ride?

    It is tiring... even with stops every few hours to buy something at a cafe and stretch the legs.

    The simple fact is that the ability to stand up and stretch or go to the toilet on an 8 hour mission is about as valuable as an ejection seat... you don't plan to need it but when it is available you thank the designers for it.

    Imagine sitting on your a$$ for 4 hours in the same seat and then having to go into combat... needing to go to the toilet is bad enough on a bus but in a plane pulling gs it can cause damage.

    True but that would be the only reason for constructing whole new plane?

    One of the reasons for Su-27 being legendary is its range but still pilots as in many other planes site one after other.

    Other argument I read is its air-to-ground optimised role but still Su-34 is not using any different armaments than that of the Su-35 and Irbis is just as good at finding targets at ground as Su-34 radar.

    I have read something about Su-34 being initially developed to carry mystical Alfa missile and as in Soviet times new planes would get new missiles and etc would make Su-34 cold war mentality development program. Now we have mostly multirole fighters and few special role designed fighters being more economical.

    Only way I can think of Su-34 being useful is make it export naval strike plane as it can carry three Yakhont missiles witch is two more than Su-30MKI (Super30) will be able to carry and that would pack quite a punch. As for Russi modernised Tu-22M3 (M5 or some other number) would be more suitable given its size and Tu-22M3 range.

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  GarryB on Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:25 am

    The Su-34 isn't a whole new plane, but it is a significant modification of a large and efficient design.

    The much wider forward fuselage means the hump back and much more internal volume for equipment, while the nose has ample space for a much larger radar antenna array.

    The difference with the Su-35 is significant, yet it retains many of the same attributes and is similar enough to share a lot of the same systems which benefits logistics and maintainence.

    The Su-27 does have excellent flight range... for the vast majority of normal missions it flys with most of its internal fuel tanks empty because the extra fuel is not needed and becomes dead weight if you carry it around with you.

    The Su-34 is based on the same aircraft as the Su-35 and therefore anything that is cleared for use with the Su-34 will also be cleared or could be cleared for use with the Su-35.

    The point is that an Su-35 is a fighter and an air superiority aircraft... if you have it flying around with 1,500kg KAB-1500 bombs and Kh-59MK long range missiles that is going to effect its ability to use an air to air armament as a fighter.

    The concept of using an aircraft with a range of weapons just in case a threat pops up is just silly. Aircraft weapons have a rail life... you can store an R-73 for 10-20 years in storage, but after 30 hours on a rail you need maintainence to make sure it still works properly. You don't fly around with live weapons just in case you might need them, you load up what you need for your mission, which means for an Su-34 air to ground weapons plus a few self defence AAMs and jamming pods, and for an Su-35 that means AAMs or perhaps in a SEAD role some ARMs and some jamming pods plus a few LGBs or satellite guided bombs.

    Only way I can think of Su-34 being useful is make it export naval strike plane as it can carry three Yakhont missiles witch is two more than Su-30MKI (Super30) will be able to carry and that would pack quite a punch. As for Russi modernised Tu-22M3 (M5 or some other number) would be more suitable given its size and Tu-22M3 range.

    Lets put it in terms of replacements.

    The Su-34 replaces the Su-24, the Su-35 replaces the Su-27, and a Tu-22M5 replaces a Tu-22M3.

    Multirole aircraft are nice on paper, but operationally the Russian AF has strike regiments, fighter regiments, and bomber regiments.

    With a large tanker force you could probably replace the Su-34, and the Tu-22M3 with Su-35s, but you will still have strike and fighter and bomber regiments... an Su-35 will not be as good as an Su-34 in the strike role as the Su-34 has a lot of dedicated equipment internally for very long range strike missions. The Su-35 will be fine for fighter missions, but for Bomber missions it wont have the 2,000km attack radius with 24 tons of bombs that a Tu-22M3 already has. With a few minor upgrades that range could be increased and most importantly those 24 tons of dumb bombs can be upgraded to a range of guided munitions and missiles including GLONASS guided weapons.

    The Su-30 has plenty of growth potential left, you could revise the shape and design to improve stealth performance and add electronic gadgets too, but I think the Russian military is happy with the choices it has made so far... though I am sure they would be much happier if the Su-34 was being produced at a higher rate and if the Su-35 was in production too.

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  TR1 on Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:35 am

    Six new Su-34s to be handed over any day now. Some of them are in the new grey scheme....and there is a chance these may have the new canopy.

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  TheArmenian on Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:30 pm

    All six were delivered today according to www.lenta.ru

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  TR1 on Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:38 pm



    Damn. Bad weather delayed transfer from Novosibirsk to Voronezh, until Monday.


    Must have been some weather conditions to stop an all weather plane.

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  SOC on Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:39 pm

    TR1 wrote:Must have been some weather conditions to stop an all weather plane.

    Most likely they just aren't taking any chances. It's not combat, it's just a delivery flight. No need to potentially risk the airframes.

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  GarryB on Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:13 pm

    Was going to make a joke involving lots of top Polish officials in the number two seats of these planes insisting on landing, but decided it was in poor taste.

    Certainly these aircraft would actually prefer to operate in the worst weather possible as it would make them safer, but that is in combat... in peace time it makes them less safe as Sean has pointed out and it clearly has been determined not worth the risk.

    ...the number of helicopters lost to bad weather in mountains on routine or not particularly necessary flights would probably frighten anyone who bothered to try to work it out. Sad

    Simply not worth risking the crew or the aircraft.

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  TR1 on Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:13 am

    Well, the grey Su-34s arrived. And they are uggggggggggggly.

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  GarryB on Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:01 am

    If you are referring to paint job, I wouldn't get too upset... the manufacturers have a history of painting planes with whatever colours they have at hand... if they are that bad a new coat will fix everything.

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  George1 on Sat Dec 24, 2011 7:39 pm

    Su-34 production will also include any reconnaissance and ELINT variants?

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  GarryB on Sat Dec 24, 2011 10:36 pm

    I think recon, and ELINT support might be part of their primary mission.

    We have seen mockups of Su-30s with various jammers and large central pods, which could certainly be fitted to Su-34 where needed...

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  Austin on Sun Dec 25, 2011 5:12 am

    TR1 wrote:Well, the grey Su-34s arrived. And they are uggggggggggggly.

    They look stunning IMHO , compared to previous blue.

    But probably they need to adopt a better cammo like the light grey of IAF which is supposedly less visible.

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  GarryB on Sun Dec 25, 2011 10:34 am

    The dark grey on top makes a lot more sense than blue... I mean just think about it for a second... this aircraft will be used preferably at night in bad weather and will be flying low and fast in the dangerous portions of its flight.

    Looking down for a low flying Su-34 from an interceptor a dark gray colour will be much harder to spot that a bright blue coloured aircraft.

    Equally from the ground the dark gray of the top wont be very visible, certainly not as visible as the underside of the aircraft.

    This would be ideal camouflage for aircraft sitting on runways as they will be hard to pick out from the actual runway.

    The added advantage is that a few features painted on the runway will look like aircraft too.


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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  medo on Sun Dec 25, 2011 12:05 pm

    For Su-34 I find very interesting, that it doesn't have outside visible RWR detectors, MAWS and other ESM systems like with Su-27SM or Su-35. It seems they are all build inside plane and large tail bum could also host jammers and ELINT equipment for self defense.

    Anyone see any picture of serial Su-34 with large center pylon jamming pod? They usually have only two jamming pods on wing ends. With all three jamming pods and anti-radar missiles Su-34 is very capable escort jammer and SEAD platform.

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  Austin on Sun Dec 25, 2011 1:27 pm

    Can some one tell me why the tail sting radar for Su-34 was not opted for ,considering it has a very big and distinct sting ?

    I recollected reading yefim gordon stating on Su-34 it has tail sting radar.

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  GarryB on Mon Dec 26, 2011 12:09 am







    BTW AUstin, I would say, just looking at the photo below it already has a rear facing antenna, though it is hard to say what sort...


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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  Austin on Mon Dec 26, 2011 6:33 am

    Yes the transparent radome on the tail will indicate it has some RF device , but perhaps i think they must have evaluated the rear facing radar and would have found not much use practically to get rid of tail targets , if a target if on your tail then there is something very wrong and shaking off wont be easy.

    Even PAK-FA does not have tail mounted radar.

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  medo on Mon Dec 26, 2011 10:23 am



    It seems Su-34 must have quite impressive electronic equipment in its tail, because it have quite big cooling device or APU there for it. I doubt it have radar in its back, radome is too small, but for sure RWR, MAWS, chaffs and flares, jammer, maybe ELINT equipment, who knows. Electronic there is very important, because Russians keep it in secret and Su-34 is not meant for export, the same as radar in nose. It for sure is not the same as the one shown in nineties.

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  GarryB on Mon Dec 26, 2011 1:01 pm

    First of all I don't know how much use an actual rear facing radar would be as its small surface area would make it a fairly limited set.

    On the other hand just having a rear facing radar that just listens could be useful in detecting targets behind the aircraft because of their emissions... including incoming SAMs and AAMs etc.

    Even PAK-FA does not have tail mounted radar.

    The PAK FA has its braking chute on the top of its spine... leaving the rear facing tip free for all sorts of electronic goodies... most of which have not been fitted yet as we are still into the early prototypes.


    It seems Su-34 must have quite impressive electronic equipment in its tail, because it have quite big cooling device or APU there for it.

    AFAIK the APU is mounted in the fin root of a vertical tail surfaces with the air intakes at the base of both of the fins.

    As shown in the picture I posted above it has a radar transparent dielectric covering on the tip of the tail stinger which is mirrored by similar material in the rear of the wing tip pods.

    They might transmit jamming signals, or detect and analyse incoming signals from enemy radar and altimeter equipment or datalinks etc the same as the wing tip pods, except as part of the aircraft they are always present.

    I rather doubt it would be used as an active radar as this would give the aircrafts position away too readily.

    Of course it might be a datalink to missiles so the Su-34 can launch a missile and then turn tail but still communicate with missiles like the AS-13 and AS-18, which transmit a video picture back to the launch aircraft so the weapons officer can move a crosshair onto any target in view of the missile from 150km or more away.

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  GarryB on Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:17 am

    Of course the dark gray paint on top might also make dark dielectric panels and IR sensors harder to see... but the primary function will be as I stated above to make it hard to spot traveling at high speed at very low level by the main threat... enemy fighters. (the purpose of traveling low and fast and to plot courses around major radars and SAMs that are not under attack is to defeat ground defences with low altitude and speed.

    It might be supported by higher flying aircraft carrying large amounts of ARMs flying fast and high to maximise ARM range and speed, plus a few AAM armed fighters and of course jamming aircraft. In the near future they could also have a few stealth fighters lurking around gathering data and hitting targets from long range. They can also deal with any enemy aircraft that get airborne to challenge them.


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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  KRATOS1133 on Tue Dec 27, 2011 7:48 pm


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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  GarryB on Tue Dec 27, 2011 10:41 pm

    Interesting... on its own this wire mesh exhaust would not be very effective as because of the air flow little air would enter, so I suspect this is the exit port for an air flow cooling system/APU system.

    I have read that the operational models of the Su-34 got an APU to make them more independent of ground power sources, and that when the APU was fitted they added air scoops at the base of each vertical tail fin. As the APU would be mostly used on the ground the air scoops would not exactly be necessary just for an APU, so perhaps they are to increase cooling capacity for internal electronics as well as an air intake that wont suck up fumes from the APU when operated on the ground.

    There seems to be sufficient space behind the APU for a radar antenna. The cockpit side of the APU seems to have an upper access hatch, though this is directly above some sort of system underneath the tail stinger and may contain flares and chaff and perhaps towed decoys and other sneaky items.

    Looking at this photo there seems to be a small hatch on the top of the rear tip that I initially thought was a cover for a braking parachute:



    But looking at the Su-34 landing the parachute hatch is almost at the centre of the spine of the aircraft and there seem to be two chutes coming from the same hatch:


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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  TheArmenian on Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:26 am

    GarryB wrote:...the tail stinger and may contain flares and chaff and perhaps towed decoys and other sneaky items.

    Definitly.




    By the way, A lot of photos here: http://dmitrydreamer.livejournal.com/24772.html

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