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    Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

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    Mindstorm

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  Mindstorm on Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:33 am


    http://nvo.ng.ru/realty/2012-03-16/1_zelin.html#


    In this interview Gen. A. Zelin clarify that number of Su-34 in RuAF at 2020 will be 124, with a total of 140 of them expected to enter in service some time after; it will follow a continual open upgrade cycle in those years (therefore, very likely, the SU-34s of various batchs will differ in level of sophistication).

    It appear that, with the next implementation of long range missiles it will become also part of Russian nuclear deterrence forces !!


    Some interesting details on other platforms.
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    TheArmenian

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  TheArmenian on Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:59 pm

    Su-34 Radar.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  GarryB on Tue May 22, 2012 10:44 am

    I wonder if the new targeting pod being developed for the PAK FA is the Solluks pod that has been referred to in some articles?

    We know the Su-34 has the built in Platan system and will likely carry a pod mounted targeting pod for certain missions and that there is the French Damocles pod and the Russian Sapsan pod and this Solluks pod that has been mentioned.

    The advantage of pods is that they are easy to update and you don't need too many.

    If you have 200 aircraft then you don't need to buy 200 pods... you could probably get away with 20-40 pods.

    Pods are easier to replace too, in fact you don't replace them you cascade them, so when the 40 pods are no longer top of the line stuff you can buy 20-40 new pods. You don't need to get rid of the older pods... they can be adapted for roles they previously weren't used for.

    Most ground attack missions the digital TV and low light level TV optics and laser target marker/ranger/laser spot seeker allows you to use laser guided bombs and missiles. As QWIP technology progresses you could add this to your inbuilt targeting system to make it more flexible, but you don't want to spend too much because the built in stuff is harder to update and to be useful needs to be fitted to every aircraft because you really don't know which will be available so if you need that capability on every aircraft it needs to be fitted to every aircraft.

    The Platan system on the Su-34 is fairly modest and cheap, but effective for most clear weather use. The aircraft still has night and all weather capability with its radar, but for full capability a really good targeting pod makes all the difference.

    Of course with the radar plus the built in navigation system including GLONASS the Su-34 can scan and find ground targets... use the location of the aircraft and the direction and distance to the target to calculate the targets precise coordinates that can be used with satellite guided bombs and missiles for all weather precision strike without a targeting pod. Something like Damocles however will allow a night and all weather look at the target for positive ID before engagement, and the potential for video of the engagement for confirmation of results so it can be determined if the target was dealt with or another strike needs to be called in.

    Of course with a modern datalink a strike package of 4-8 Su-34s could have one aircraft using radar and one or two others using a damocles or Sapsan or Solluks pod... or all of the above and pass that information to all the aircraft in the group to take out a large number of targets in one pass...
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    TR1

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  TR1 on Tue May 22, 2012 7:53 pm

    AFAIK Platan does indeed have a thermal channel.

    Actually, I don't get why Platan isn't inherently a better solution than pods- better internal mount + more space + power and cooling potential. Downside is of course limited viewing angles.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  GarryB on Wed May 23, 2012 10:14 am

    The information in Russias Arms 2004 says the "Su-32" has an optronic fire control and navigation complex incorporating a data display system, a plotter, and the Platan laser/TV station.

    This suggests to me that Platan is a simple TV/Laser system only.

    It is certainly possible they have incorporated a thermal sight... the technology has moved on and I am sure if it hasn't got a 3rd gen thermal imager included I would expect one would be added in the near future... a QWIP set would be relatively light and eventually very small and compact.

    The completion of the GLONASS system will make the aircraft MUCH more capable as the aircraft becomes a much more accurate data collection system for both moving and stationary targets.

    Actually, I don't get why Platan isn't inherently a better solution than pods- better internal mount + more space + power and cooling potential. Downside is of course limited viewing angles.

    Internal equipment is always available and gives a capability to the entire fleet on every mission they fly.
    Internal also means lower drag.

    External pods can be much more expensive because you don't buy one of one to match the number of aircraft you want to use them on. A Damocles pod for the Su-34 units can be fitted to the Su-35 fleet too.

    More importantly it is easier to upgrade a pod and depending on the pylon it is located on it generally gets a better field of view than most internal systems.

    For the Mig-27K the optics systems were in the radarless nose and got excellent views with low drag, while Platan in the Su-34.
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    medo

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  medo on Wed May 23, 2012 4:16 pm

    Platan is one of the most secret peace of equipment on Su-34. All data are about TV/laser range finder/target designator Platan installed on pre-series planes, which flow more than a decade ago. Platan on new serial Su-34 could be different, after all optics become smaller, so there could be enough space to place FLIR camera. After all why would you have additional targeting pod, when you already have the same system integrated in the plane itself. I also wonder how much is improved V004 radar, I doubt it is the same radar as the one in the nineties.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  GarryB on Thu May 24, 2012 11:11 am

    I agree that their expertise in thermal imagers has expanded greatly and their expertise in 3rd gen uncooled thermal imagers should enable a very compact and capable system to be added without costing too much.

    The Radar has also benefited from improvements in electronics and radar design, and it wouldn't surprise me if they have greatly improved the Platan.

    However the purpose of the system was to give a standard basic weapon delivery capability that did not require the use of radar, and for optically guided and laser guided weapons it is fine.

    Some targeting pods are more than just thermal imagers and lasers... they have equipment for navigation and datalinks that allow what the pilot sees to be transmitted to ground forces or HQs in real time and with built in sat nav can be used to calculate the precise ground coordinates of fixed things for targeting with sat guided bombs and missiles, and lots of other little tricks.

    With the new C4IR comms and datalinks a single aircraft in a flight of several aircraft can use a single targeting pod on one aircraft to laser range a large group of targets and calculate their positions in 3 dimensions and then pass target data to the other aircraft in the flight including optimum glide paths for the weapons if the target happens to be up a tricky gorge in the mountains. Equally the optical targeting system can be used to engage aerial targets as well...

    Pods are more flexible and cheaper and are easier to upgrade.
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    medo

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  medo on Thu May 24, 2012 4:06 pm

    GarryB wrote:I agree that their expertise in thermal imagers has expanded greatly and their expertise in 3rd gen uncooled thermal imagers should enable a very compact and capable system to be added without costing too much.

    The Radar has also benefited from improvements in electronics and radar design, and it wouldn't surprise me if they have greatly improved the Platan.

    However the purpose of the system was to give a standard basic weapon delivery capability that did not require the use of radar, and for optically guided and laser guided weapons it is fine.

    Some targeting pods are more than just thermal imagers and lasers... they have equipment for navigation and datalinks that allow what the pilot sees to be transmitted to ground forces or HQs in real time and with built in sat nav can be used to calculate the precise ground coordinates of fixed things for targeting with sat guided bombs and missiles, and lots of other little tricks.

    With the new C4IR comms and datalinks a single aircraft in a flight of several aircraft can use a single targeting pod on one aircraft to laser range a large group of targets and calculate their positions in 3 dimensions and then pass target data to the other aircraft in the flight including optimum glide paths for the weapons if the target happens to be up a tricky gorge in the mountains. Equally the optical targeting system can be used to engage aerial targets as well...

    Pods are more flexible and cheaper and are easier to upgrade.

    True, but Su-34 have all this equipment build inside the plane, the only thing missing is FLIR camera. Different story is for Su-30 or Su-35, which are fighters first and not dedicated bombers. They could only upgrade Platan with thermal imager and Su-34 doesn't need any pod.
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    Sujoy

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  Sujoy on Mon May 28, 2012 8:39 am





    SU 34 with Pod
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    Sujoy

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  Sujoy on Mon May 28, 2012 10:26 am

    SAP 14 pod for Su 34


    There is a probability that the Sapsan-E thermal imaging and laser targeting pod will be carried externally, probably on the No 9 ventral inlet station.
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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  GarryB on Mon May 28, 2012 11:08 am

    That is an ESM pod used to detect and locate enemy electronics sources... ie radar and radio emitters.

    Add on pods will always be useful for the Su-34 as it makes them much more flexible and able to perform a range of missions without compromising the design one way or another.

    For instance for a SEAD role the belly mounted ESM pod shown in the post above can be used together with internal electronics and wingtip mounted jamming pods plus a few AAMs for self defence, a few ARMs to attack active radar emitters and a few LGBs and bombs with gliding packages to allow attacks on emitting radars as well as missile sites after their radars have been taken care of.

    The gliding bombs allow standoff attacks against missiles that might have optical alternative guidance options.

    Having a targeting pod as well as the internal Platan EO fire control system means potentially multiple targets could be engaged with laser guided weapons while retaining control of the engagement... for instance that case in Kosovo where the pilot was lasing a bridge and a few seconds before the laser guided bomb hit the bridge a passenger train approached... with a laser guided weapon the pilot could redirect the laser designator to miss by sufficient distance to save the people in the train. With GPS guided weapons there is no such control.
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    medo

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  medo on Mon May 28, 2012 5:19 pm

    The central ECM pod is meant to be used as escort jammer like Prowler or Growler. Su-34 with both wingtip ECM pods, central ECM pod, 4 ARMs like Kh-31 or Kh-58 and 4 AAMs is quite effective SEAD/DEAD platform. I wonder if this central ECM pod will be also integrated in Su-30SM and Su-35. Maybe Su-35 will not use it as exclusively air dominance fighter, but Su-30SM could use it, because it is also two sitter and is multirole fighter.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  GarryB on Tue May 29, 2012 11:31 am

    The central ECM pod is meant to be used as escort jammer like Prowler or Growler.

    Technically it is an ESM pod in that it would be used to detect enemy emissions and catalogue them before being used with wingtip mounted pods to deceive or jam the emitters. With newer Air Defence systems using sophisticated phased arrays for tracking and guidance you pretty much have to be marked to get a lock with an ARM, though weapons like the Kh-58 that locates the emitter and homes on its location if emissions cease having a precise location is just as important.

    This is just a case of a set of external pods making aircraft more flexible... similar pods have been seen on the Su-30MKK2 AFAIK and would transform a fighter bomber like an Su-30 or Su-35 or Su-34 into a Growler class aircraft without requiring fixed antennas and equipment to be fitted.

    Like targeting pods it makes the aircraft more flexible and cheaper... and it makes upgrades cheaper and easier.

    Maybe Su-35 will not use it as exclusively air dominance fighter, but Su-30SM could use it, because it is also two sitter and is multirole fighter.

    Actually I rather suspect the sophisticated avionics of the Su-35 (almost 5th gen and 5th gen being adapted from the PAK FA) would mean it can perform roles previously only suited to two seat aircraft.
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    medo

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  medo on Tue May 29, 2012 4:26 pm

    Actually I rather suspect the sophisticated avionics of the Su-35 (almost 5th gen and 5th gen being adapted from the PAK FA) would mean it can perform roles previously only suited to two seat aircraft.

    True, specially when Su-35 will be exported. But I think Russian air force will use Su-35 as air defense fighter same as PAK FA and not as multirole fighter. I think this could be also a reason behind RuAF decision to buy Su-30SM, which could be used as multirole figher, specially in operations outside Russian air space. I more think Su-35 and PAK FA will do a job of previous air defense fighter aviation.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  GarryB on Wed May 30, 2012 9:21 am

    Actually I remember one interview where it was mentioned that the Su-30s were being bought as two seat advanced trainers for the single seat Su-35s.

    The Yak-130 is a very capable trainer, but having a two seat Su-35 would be useful too.

    The cost of developing one would waste time and money however when the Su-30 is available and most importantly in production, so I think it makes a lot of sense.

    I would expect 5th gen avionics to actually work out to be very similar to early flight simulators, where target information is presented to the pilot from a range of sources (the pilot doesn't need to know whether it is a radar contact or an IRST contact or if the target information is from a ground radar).

    I would expect most of the complexity of the mission including fuel and engine management will be taken from the pilot and handled automatically with only critical problems or issues the computers can't solve being brought to the pilots attention. As such the Su-35 and indeed PAK FA should be amongst the easiest planes to fly.
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    medo

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  medo on Wed May 30, 2012 5:23 pm



    Black Su-34 armed with longer range R-27 and R-73 AAMs.
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    George1

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  George1 on Wed May 30, 2012 8:08 pm

    It would be interesting to see the air-to-surface missiles loaded in Su-34
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    GarryB

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  GarryB on Thu May 31, 2012 10:42 am



    Most of the fully armed photos are static on the ground shots at airshows.



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    Sujoy

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  Sujoy on Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:08 pm



    PRODUCTION OF SU 34 in NOVOSIBIRSK
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    Stealthflanker

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  Stealthflanker on Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:21 am

    I'm curious on what kind of Radar inside the Su-34's nose.. ? i heard the earlier Leninetz V-004 was troublesome and had been replaced with something else (perhaps phazotron's.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:03 pm

    I have never heard them mention any other radar, though I had heard there were initial problems... in many ways the Su-34 has 5th gen avionics with integrated sensor fused systems.


    I would expect they have solved the problems by now...


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    TR1

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  TR1 on Sun Jun 24, 2012 7:54 pm

    Stealthflanker wrote:I'm curious on what kind of Radar inside the Su-34's nose.. ? i heard the earlier Leninetz V-004 was troublesome and had been replaced with something else (perhaps phazotron's.

    Still V-004, but it was substantially re-worked.
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    Stealthflanker

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  Stealthflanker on Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:10 am

    TR1 wrote:
    Stealthflanker wrote:I'm curious on what kind of Radar inside the Su-34's nose.. ? i heard the earlier Leninetz V-004 was troublesome and had been replaced with something else (perhaps phazotron's.
    Still V-004, but it was substantially re-worked.

    I see.. hmm if that's the case then i expect MiG-31BM like solution..retaining the original V-004 antenna BUT re-work the whole back end stuff (processing, receivers etc).
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    GarryB

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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  GarryB on Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:07 am

    I don't know about the V004 but the original Zaslon radar in the Mig-31 had a very poor back end with very low processing capacity that seriously restricted its effective range.

    The antenna design gave it an excellent field of regard, but lack of processing power limited range and tracked target performance to what it could have achieved with more processing power.

    Needless to say the radar in the Mig-31BM, I have heard, had similar performance to the seriously upgraded Zaslon-M as fitted to the Mig-31M and it uses the old antenna and new back end.

    As AESA technology matures in Russia a new AESA for the 100 Mig-31s they plan to have in service in 2020 and the Su-34s in service will make them even more capable aircraft.


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    Re: Su-34 Tactical Bomber: News

    Post  Firebird on Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:55 pm

    To me, the Su-34 is an amazingly beautiful( and ofcourse deadly!) bird.
    To think, its 1st prototype flew way back in 1990.

    So much of the design( pylons excluded etc ofcourse) looks like a low RCS design.
    I wonder, if it hadn't have been for the dislocation asssociated with the USSR ending, how the design might have been modified.
    In other words, how far could it have evolved towards a full stealth aircraft?

    Thats not to criticise it. The Su-34 is a fantastic piece of engineering. For all the problems of the 1990s, Russia is still the envy of the World, with so much of its technology.

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