Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Il-476: News

    Share

    Austin
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5675
    Points : 6081
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Age : 40
    Location : India

    Re: Il-476: News

    Post  Austin on Mon Apr 04, 2011 7:58 am

    Seems IL-476 will be 1.5m longer as per Ivanov link

    At the same time, he said, it is the release of the aircraft in a new way - with a glass cockpit, with a new engine. Ivanov noted that the aircraft will be at 1.5 meters longer and thus increase its capacity, according to ITAR-TASS.

    nightcrawler
    Lieutenant
    Lieutenant

    Posts : 559
    Points : 687
    Join date : 2010-08-20
    Age : 27
    Location : Pakistan

    Re: Il-476: News

    Post  nightcrawler on Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:39 am

    @Austim
    This is marginally more beautiful I love you

    TheArmenian
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1518
    Points : 1681
    Join date : 2011-09-14

    Re: Il-476: News

    Post  TheArmenian on Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:57 pm

    Video of Rogozin's visit to the Aviastar plant in Ulyanovsk.
    Il-476 is shown as well as VIP Tu-204-300

    http://www.vesti.ru/videos?vid=391718&cid=1

    Russian Patriot
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1168
    Points : 2062
    Join date : 2009-07-21
    Age : 25
    Location : USA- although I am Russian

    Re: Il-476: News

    Post  Russian Patriot on Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:59 pm

    Upgraded Il-76 Plane to Make Maiden Flight in Summer

    RIA Novosti

    17:15 02/03/2012 NIZHNY NOVGOROD, March 2 (RIA Novosti) - Russia’s modernized Ilyushin Il-76MD-90A aircraft, also known as the Il-476, will conduct its maiden flight by the end of June, Ulyanovsk-based Aviastar aircraft maker said on Friday.

    The Il-476 is an extensively modified variant of the Il-76 freighter, with new engines, reinforced wing, modernized cockpit, and heavier payload. The aircraft will be primarily built for the Russian Armed Forces and Emergencies Ministry.

    “Project 476 is our future,” Aviastar General Director Sergei Dementyev said.

    Aviastar, which also manufactures super-heavy Antonov An-124 transport planes, expects to build up to ten of the Il-476 aircraft per year and is in talks with export customers including India and China as well as commercial customers.

    China canceled a contract agreed earlier with Russia for delivery of around 38 Il-76 transport and Il-78 tanker aircraft, after TAPO, the Uzbekistan-based Il-76 airframe producer said it could no longer deliver the airframes as production had slowed.

    Russia then had to move production to Aerostar in order to complete the Il-476 modification programs for the Russian Air Force.

    The Russian Defense Ministry wants to buy up to 100 of the aircraft over ten years to replace existing Il-76s.


    http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2012/russia-120302-rianovosti03.htm

    George1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 9443
    Points : 9935
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Il-476: News

    Post  George1 on Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:29 am

    Russian Patriot wrote:Upgraded Il-76 Plane to Make Maiden Flight in Summer

    RIA Novosti

    17:15 02/03/2012 NIZHNY NOVGOROD, March 2 (RIA Novosti) - Russia’s modernized Ilyushin Il-76MD-90A aircraft, also known as the Il-476, will conduct its maiden flight by the end of June, Ulyanovsk-based Aviastar aircraft maker said on Friday.

    The Il-476 is an extensively modified variant of the Il-76 freighter, with new engines, reinforced wing, modernized cockpit, and heavier payload. The aircraft will be primarily built for the Russian Armed Forces and Emergencies Ministry.

    “Project 476 is our future,” Aviastar General Director Sergei Dementyev said.

    Aviastar, which also manufactures super-heavy Antonov An-124 transport planes, expects to build up to ten of the Il-476 aircraft per year and is in talks with export customers including India and China as well as commercial customers.

    China canceled a contract agreed earlier with Russia for delivery of around 38 Il-76 transport and Il-78 tanker aircraft, after TAPO, the Uzbekistan-based Il-76 airframe producer said it could no longer deliver the airframes as production had slowed.

    Russia then had to move production to Aerostar in order to complete the Il-476 modification programs for the Russian Air Force.

    The Russian Defense Ministry wants to buy up to 100 of the aircraft over ten years to replace existing Il-76s.


    http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2012/russia-120302-rianovosti03.htm

    Yes but with 1 aircraft per year the Il-76s will be replaced in 100 years. We need more production plants

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15470
    Points : 16177
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Il-476: News

    Post  GarryB on Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:53 am

    More production plants would be good, but lets make sure the plane passes the tests before we put it into full production.

    Now when I say we, I mean they... Smile

    Raghu Reddy
    Private
    Private

    Posts : 9
    Points : 13
    Join date : 2011-07-14
    Age : 28
    Location : Hyderabad, India

    Re: Il-476: News

    Post  Raghu Reddy on Sat Mar 03, 2012 8:56 am

    More powerful engines with better payload!!!

    If the article is true about fuel consumption then it good buy for China's PLAAF. It seems a increase in size and payload means it could also transport Heavy MBTs.

    The difference between C-17s and IL-76s :
    C-17s can carry upto 70 tons - Adrams, Arjun MBTs
    IL-76s can carry upto 50 tons - T-72s and T-90s MBTs

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15470
    Points : 16177
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Il-476: News

    Post  GarryB on Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:18 am

    More powerful more efficient engines that meet European noise requirements...

    George1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 9443
    Points : 9935
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Il-476: News

    Post  George1 on Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:21 pm


    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15470
    Points : 16177
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Il-476: News

    Post  GarryB on Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:27 am

    Interesting picture, but unfortunately not accurate... the Il-106 seems to be a dead program though it only died because there was no money for it. The engines and the aircraft were developed and then shelved.

    It would have been an excellent transport that would have been very popular on the export market because it would have had the performance of the C-17 with the cost of a Russian plane...

    Also the Tu-214 will likely not replace the An-12... the Tu-214 has side doors that require cargo lifting equipment, while the An-12 has a rear ramp for vehicles to drive off themselves.

    A more accurate drawing would show the An-124, Il-476, An-70, and MTA.

    George1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 9443
    Points : 9935
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Il-476: News

    Post  George1 on Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:21 pm

    Aviastar Sends First Il-76MD-90A Plane for Tests

    Russia's Aviastar aircraft plant has completed the first flying prototype of the Ilyushin Il-76MD-90A transport aircraft and sent it off for test-flights, the plant's general director, Sergei Dementyev, said on Thursday.

    The plant has built two of the modernized aircraft, he said.

    "The first one can only partly be called a plane - it is a testbed we sent to TsAGI (the central aerodynamics institute) in Moscow last year. Today, we completed the second. In addition we have also started building three production-standard aircraft. Assembly of the first of these three production planes will start in August," he said.

    The factory plans to build 16 of the aircraft per year by 2016, for which the plant will take on an additional 5,000 staff he said.

    The Russian Defense Ministry has a stated requirement in its rearmament plan for 90 of the modernized transport aircraft, he said, but no company contract has yet been signed. Aviastar foresees a total production run of around 190 aircraft, with likely civilian customers including Russian cargo airlines Volga-Dnepr and Polet, as well as possible exports to China, India and Israel.

    The new aircraft is fitted with the PS-90A turbofan in place of the older D-30 engine, increasing the aircraft's speed, range, and cargo capacity, which is up from 52 to 60 tons. The modernized Il-76MD090A, also known as the Il-476, also has new cockpit avionics allowing a smaller flight crew.

    "It's a completely new plane," said Chief Designer Sergei Urasov, "which completely differs from its predecessor in terms of systems."

    The Soviet Union produced hundreds of early model Il-76s at its Tashkent factory in Uzbekistan in the 1970s and 1980s. The Il-76 is capable of landing on rough strips and carrying large cargos, and remains popular with outsize cargo airlines and many air forces across the world.

    http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20120705/174420038.html

    Dima
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1035
    Points : 1050
    Join date : 2012-03-22

    Re: Il-476: News

    Post  Dima on Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:28 am

    w.r.t the IL-476, all I can say is that I'm dissapointed on the modification for not being far sighted enough.

    IL-476 still have the same fuselage diameter as the earlier Il-76. It would have been better if they had increased the fuselage size little more so that it is in the size of the An-70 & A-400. This would have nullified the critics on the smaller fuselage of IL-76 for over-sized cargos. Though IL-476 will do a better job than its predecessor in hauling the cargo's that it is currently used to.

    Moreover, with the increased size (dia) of the fuselage, IL-476 could have even effectively competed against the C-17, in the absence of its planned Russian alternative, the IL-106.

    Now the only option to compete (if at all needed) in the C-17 class is to develop the IL-106. If they had modified the IL-476 to a larger dia fuselage, they could have slotted the aircraft right in between the An-70/A-400 and the C-17 class and got hold of both the markets as a bonus.




    flamming_python
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3182
    Points : 3310
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Re: Il-476: News

    Post  flamming_python on Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:04 pm

    Don't forget the An-140. It's an even smaller class than the Il-214. This plucky little aircraft is being acquired by the Russian MoD I do believe.

    BTW what is the effective difference between the Il-76MD and the Il-476. Aren't they more or less the same thing? Why these 2 different models?

    flamming_python
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3182
    Points : 3310
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Re: Il-476: News

    Post  flamming_python on Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:23 pm

    GarryB wrote:Interesting picture, but unfortunately not accurate... the Il-106 seems to be a dead program though it only died because there was no money for it. The engines and the aircraft were developed and then shelved.

    It would have been an excellent transport that would have been very popular on the export market because it would have had the performance of the C-17 with the cost of a Russian plane...

    [/b]Also the Tu-214 will likely not replace the An-12... the Tu-214 has side doors that require cargo lifting equipment, while the An-12 has a rear ramp for vehicles to drive off themselves.[b]

    A more accurate drawing would show the An-124, Il-476, An-70, and MTA.

    It's not the Tu-214 but the Il-214 according to the drawing. And the Il-214 is the MTA according to Wiki. So, makes sense I guess.

    In regards to the C-17 Globemaster equivelent - wasn't even aware we had a gap in this field. Wonder how we'll fix it. The Il-106 just looks like one of those 90s programs that were lost to chaos and lack of funds. Might as well just come up with something new altogether. Or perhaps a joint venture with some European or Asian country?

    We must. Close. The C-17 class gap! Smile

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15470
    Points : 16177
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Il-476: News

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:16 am

    The Plane that currently fills the C-17 gap would be the An-22 with an 80 ton payload.

    The real problem is that Russia doesn't need a 70 payload capacity aircraft... Russia doesn't operate 70 ton MBTs so it is the wrong category payload aircraft for them.

    The 60 ton capacity of the Il-476 which is very much like an Il-76MF, actually goes a little further and increases the sophistication of the cockpit with a reduced crew requirement through automation of systems and equipment.

    The combination of the 60 ton capacity Il-476 and the 50 ton capacity An-70, and the 20 ton capacity MTA to replace the An-12s in service and of course the An-124s cover the payloads from 120 to 150 tons. There is a large gap between 60 and 120 tons that could be filled by a new aircraft if there was demand... a scaled up An-22 using one of the new jet engines they are working on like the MD-30 would make an interesting gap filler though rather than copying the C-17 I would perhaps go for the 90-100 ton payload class aircraft to go above the Il-476 and below the An-124.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    flamming_python
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3182
    Points : 3310
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Re: Il-476: News

    Post  flamming_python on Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:28 am

    GarryB wrote:The Plane that currently fills the C-17 gap would be the An-22 with an 80 ton payload.

    The real problem is that Russia doesn't need a 70 payload capacity aircraft... Russia doesn't operate 70 ton MBTs so it is the wrong category payload aircraft for them.

    The 60 ton capacity of the Il-476 which is very much like an Il-76MF, actually goes a little further and increases the sophistication of the cockpit with a reduced crew requirement through automation of systems and equipment.

    The combination of the 60 ton capacity Il-476 and the 50 ton capacity An-70, and the 20 ton capacity MTA to replace the An-12s in service and of course the An-124s cover the payloads from 120 to 150 tons. There is a large gap between 60 and 120 tons that could be filled by a new aircraft if there was demand... a scaled up An-22 using one of the new jet engines they are working on like the MD-30 would make an interesting gap filler though rather than copying the C-17 I would perhaps go for the 90-100 ton payload class aircraft to go above the Il-476 and below the An-124.

    Tnx for the info. I rather suspect that the An-22 has had its day, and that a new aircraft between the An-124 and Il-476 would not be a priority; given your info. So the Il-476 should be capable of ferrying an Armata (whatever its final weight); and the An-70 - 1 or 2 Kurganets, and more than 2 of anything else. Mayhaps the Il-476 will also go on to replace the standard Il-76s as the airdrop aircraft for the VDV?

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15470
    Points : 16177
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Il-476: News

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:56 am

    They have reportedly been using the An-22s a bit, which suggests there is a need for an aircraft in that weight class, and they are working on a new jet engine... I think in the 30 ton class in a high bypass version that would be suitable for large subsonic aircraft. It would likely be ideal to have a twin engined transport able to carry an 80-110 ton payload, where the 110 ton payload is over reduced ranges with reduced fuel, but with inflight refuelling capacity that would make it a very flexible aircraft as the aircraft could be topped up in flight to restore strategic flight performance.

    So the Il-476 should be capable of ferrying an Armata (whatever its final weight); and the An-70 - 1 or 2 Kurganets, and more than 2 of anything else.

    Pretty much yes. Airlifting armour is actually rare and very much an emergency resort as it is much cheaper to deliver it by rail or sea, but the new vehicles are supposed to be designed to allow air delivery.

    Mayhaps the Il-476 will also go on to replace the standard Il-76s as the airdrop aircraft for the VDV?

    The problems with using the Il-476 for the VDV is that they will belong to the Air Force so the VDV will have to ask for permission to use them. Another problem is the flight speed, which is a bit high for jumping out of a plane.

    The AN-70 will have a lower flight speed and will be safer and easier to jump from, and the VDVs armour will likely be BMD-4M based so the An-70 should be easily able to carry several vehicles at a time as well as troops.

    I rather suspect that some VDV units might become air assault troops delivered by helo, while some will remain air dropped, and further forces will be landed troops that dont parachute and just drive off their aircraft into the area of operations.

    A dedicated force of 40-60 An-70s would be ideal for the mission of supporting the VDV, while the new Il-476s can be used for strategic transport of material from district to district and other duties.

    This is my opinion of course.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    Dima
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1035
    Points : 1050
    Join date : 2012-03-22

    Re: Il-476: News

    Post  Dima on Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:14 am

    GarryB wrote:The Plane that currently fills the C-17 gap would be the An-22 with an 80 ton payload.

    The real problem is that Russia doesn't need a 70 payload capacity aircraft... Russia doesn't operate 70 ton MBTs so it is the wrong category payload aircraft for them.
    I agree on the tonnage capacity and I'm no critic of the IL-476 on that matter. But, its the width of the cargo hold that doesn't go well with me. The IL-76 have too little space after the tanks are loaded and itz indeed a very tight fit. The loading and unloading is not easy also. Thats is why I feel they should have enlarged the fuselage dia by atleast 1-2 meters.

    If the modernization was just for making it digital then we have to accept that there is no new IL-76. But if they made IL-476 as a "ew" aircraft, it was a very myopic plan. If they are planning to use the IL-476 for transporting their tanks, its is going to have the very tight fit of its predecessor and the associated loading/unloading issue inside the cargo hold. How could they have ignored the lack of space for accommodating the MBT is simply beyond my understanding.

    The 60 ton capacity of the Il-476 which is very much like an Il-76MF, actually goes a little further and increases the sophistication of the cockpit with a reduced crew requirement through automation of systems and equipment.
    Yes, that is the only good part of the IL-476. It will do the job that is already the specifics of the Il-76, better.

    There is a large gap between 60 and 120 tons that could be filled by a new aircraft if there was demand... a scaled up An-22 using one of the new jet engines they are working on like the MD-30 would make an interesting gap filler though rather than copying the C-17 I would perhaps go for the 90-100 ton payload class aircraft to go above the Il-476 and below the An-124.
    For that gap filler, IL-106 will need to be developed. Time for An-22 is over and new design have to be put into service if the requirements is genuine and long term. The alternative was IL-476 with larger fuselage diameter. Unfortunately, Russia missed this opportunity.

    A wider fuselage IL-476 with 4 x NK-93 (which is probably dead?) with 18-20 ton each for a total of 72-80 tons thrust OR an IL-476 with 4 x PD-30 with 28-30 tons each for a total of 112-120 tons thrust would very well fit in that gap.

    Or lets for a moment call this wider-fuselage IL-476 as IL-106, then we would see that probably there is a need for such an aircraft. ;-)

    Dima
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1035
    Points : 1050
    Join date : 2012-03-22

    Re: Il-476: News

    Post  Dima on Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:20 am

    GarryB wrote:They have reportedly been using the An-22s a bit, which suggests there is a need for an aircraft in that weight class, and they are working on a new jet engine... I think in the 30 ton class in a high bypass version that would be suitable for large subsonic aircraft. It would likely be ideal to have a twin engined transport able to carry an 80-110 ton payload, where the 110 ton payload is over reduced ranges with reduced fuel, but with inflight refuelling capacity that would make it a very flexible aircraft as the aircraft could be topped up in flight to restore strategic flight performance.
    I would have preferred to see the ducted propfan NK-93 getting developed further. A NK-93 variant in the region of 24-28 tons thrust would have given adequate power to the above said aircraft with much better fuel efficiency than the turbofans.


    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15470
    Points : 16177
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Il-476: News

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:46 am

    I agree on the tonnage capacity and I'm no critic of the IL-476 on that matter. But, its the width of the cargo hold that doesn't go well with me. The IL-76 have too little space after the tanks are loaded and itz indeed a very tight fit. The loading and unloading is not easy also. Thats is why I feel they should have enlarged the fuselage dia by atleast 1-2 meters.

    If the modernization was just for making it digital then we have to accept that there is no new IL-76.

    AFAIK the Il-476 is more than an Il-76 with a digital cockpit.

    It has in addition to a digital cockpit, new wings of new more efficient design and new engines that are more powerful and more fuel efficient, and the payload capacity is increased by 1/3rd from 40 tons to 60 tons.

    Personally I think it is a good step forward and worthy of a new designation.

    It should also be kept in mind that in addition to a cargo variant that it will also replace the A-50 with a new model called A-100, and that it will also replace and expand on the inflight refuelling Il-78 as well as elint and jammer models.

    I agree that enlarging its width might have been a good thing to do, but keep in mind that the new brigade structure will mean that there will be a few heavy brigades and a lot more medium brigades and even more light brigades, so the vast majority of brigades will be light and medium and as such will have a fleet of vehicles that weigh in the 25 ton to 35 ton range for the medium brigades and the 10-18 odd ton range for the light brigades.

    Only the heavy brigades will have 55-65 ton vehicles... and those 65 ton vehicles would likely be the 152mm artillery models of Coalition. The reduction in size of the turret to make them air transportable by removing one of the two heavy guns and their dual belt feed systems should reduce its weight by several tons and make it transportable in an Il-476 too. If not then the artillery element can be transported by an An-124, but at the end of the day it makes more sense to transport such heavy units by boat or by train.

    Still it wouldn't hurt to have a transport in the 90-110 ton class... in the upper weight class perhaps two Armata tank vehicles could be carried at a time.

    It is my understanding that the MD-30 new jet engine they are working on uses the NK-93 core as a basis...


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15470
    Points : 16177
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Il-476: News

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:54 am

    A wider fuselage IL-476 with 4 x NK-93 (which is probably dead?) with 18-20 ton each for a total of 72-80 tons thrust OR an IL-476 with 4 x PD-30 with 28-30 tons each for a total of 112-120 tons thrust would very well fit in that gap.

    Or lets for a moment call this wider-fuselage IL-476 as IL-106, then we would see that probably there is a need for such an aircraft. ;-)

    I think a quick upgrade of the Il-76 is what is needed at the moment and that the Il-476 solves the problem of what to replace the Il-76 with that has similar speed and range and better payload.

    I agree that the Il-106 needs to be developed and adapted and in a year or three they will have a much better idea of what they will need for their transport needs and then would be a good time for a four engined wide bodied heavy medium strategic transport in the gap between the An-124 and the Il-476.

    I am sure it will be an excellent new transport and I think countries like France and Italy and Germany might even buy some because they will be so useful and no where near as expensive as the C-17 yet more capable. Of course countries like Australia and the UK will stick with the C-17, but countries like Canada and others might consider a new and capable transport in the 90-110 ton class. There is no European equivalent and the US option is very very expensive. Half a billion dollars per aircraft... buy two transport planes or a state of the art nuclear attack submarine... I know which would be more useful and it is not the two planes, because for that price you could probably buy 4 Il-476s AND 2 An-124s and still have change for operational costs.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    George1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 9443
    Points : 9935
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Il-476: News

    Post  George1 on Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:30 am

    We say about the gap between Il-76 and An-124. US also have a gap between C-130 20tn and C-17 80tn. And Russia has 2 types there (An-70 and IL-76 at 50,60 tn). I dont see any need for such a variation in transport fleet.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15470
    Points : 16177
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Il-476: News

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:32 am

    We say about the gap between Il-76 and An-124. US also have a gap between C-130 20tn and C-17 80tn. And Russia has 2 types there (An-70 and IL-76 at 50,60 tn). I dont see any need for such a variation in transport fleet.

    This is a good point George... Russia shouldn't develop transport aircraft just to compete with western aircraft, they should fill a real role for the Russian military.

    If you have a set of screwdrivers but only ever use two or three different sizes and types then it would be a bit silly to carry them all around with you all the time... it makes more sense to just take the common standard types, and when it comes time to replace them don't buy a full complete set... just buy the ones you need and save some money and space.

    The thing is that they currently have the An-22 in the 80 ton payload class and they do actually use it a bit, so another aircraft in that weight class would be useful.

    It comes down to cost... lets say you have a fleet of An-140s with a 6 ton payload, MTAs with a 20 ton payload, Il-76s with a 40 ton payload but also strategic range, An-70s with a 50 ton payload, Il-476 with a 60 ton payload and strategic range and an An-124 with a 150 ton payload and strategic range.

    Obviously the An-124 is going to be the most expensive to operate and for very short moves it probably makes more sense to break the load up into smaller loads and carry it on smaller aircraft.

    With the above range of aircraft any payload over 60 tons needs an An-124. The vast majority of the time most of the aircraft above will carry much lighter loads and you may find that because no other aircraft is available that you might only have a 5 ton payload on a return journey for an An-124.

    The point is that the more weight class options you have the more efficient you can be with your deliveries and transport schedule.

    A good example was in Afghanistan where 2 tons of post and supplies were delivered to Soviet outposts via 10 ton Mi-8s, where a smaller lighter helo could have done the job better if one was available. Something like the Ka-226T would have been ideal in the hot and high environment and would have been much cheaper and easier to use for that purpose.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    flamming_python
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3182
    Points : 3310
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Re: Il-476: News

    Post  flamming_python on Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:11 pm

    GarryB wrote:The problems with using the Il-476 for the VDV is that they will belong to the Air Force so the VDV will have to ask for permission to use them. Another problem is the flight speed, which is a bit high for jumping out of a plane.

    The AN-70 will have a lower flight speed and will be safer and easier to jump from, and the VDVs armour will likely be BMD-4M based so the An-70 should be easily able to carry several vehicles at a time as well as troops.

    I rather suspect that some VDV units might become air assault troops delivered by helo, while some will remain air dropped, and further forces will be landed troops that dont parachute and just drive off their aircraft into the area of operations.

    A dedicated force of 40-60 An-70s would be ideal for the mission of supporting the VDV, while the new Il-476s can be used for strategic transport of material from district to district and other duties.

    This is my opinion of course.

    Sounds logical. Then there is a problem therefore; with what exactly the Il-476 WILL be used for.

    The problem with the Il-476 and the rest of the Il-76 series, is as Dima mentioned; the narrow fusselage makes for a very tight for for all sorts of vehicles. Some even have to be partially dis-assembled, and some won't fit at all.

    The An-70 presents a solution to this problem with its wider fusselage. From what I read; the aircraft set some kind of record for hauling a 55 ton load to an altitude of some +7km or so. Which puts it in exactly the same class as the Il-476 and means that it's probably capable of hauling anything the Il-476 can. And now given that the An-70 is seemingly better suited for airdrops too; one wonders where exactly the Il-476 will find its niche...

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15470
    Points : 16177
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Il-476: News

    Post  GarryB on Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:18 am

    Sounds logical. Then there is a problem therefore; with what exactly the Il-476 WILL be used for.

    The problem with the Il-476 and the rest of the Il-76 series, is as Dima mentioned; the narrow fusselage makes for a very tight for for all sorts of vehicles. Some even have to be partially dis-assembled, and some won't fit at all.

    When it could carry 40 tons, the older model Il-76s wouldn't have had a problem because the vehicles that were too wide to fit in... like tanks, would be too heavy to carry anyway.

    Now that it can carry 60 ton payloads its lack of width might be a problem.

    The An-70 presents a solution to this problem with its wider fusselage. From what I read; the aircraft set some kind of record for hauling a 55 ton load to an altitude of some +7km or so. Which puts it in exactly the same class as the Il-476 and means that it's probably capable of hauling anything the Il-476 can. And now given that the An-70 is seemingly better suited for airdrops too; one wonders where exactly the Il-476 will find its niche...

    The An-70 is the theatre transport... think of it as an enlarged An-12 with a bigger payload.

    The Il-76 is a strategic transport for much longer distances and in the 476 model slightly heavier payloads.

    The An-70 is optimised for short and rough field take offs, as is the IL-476 and IL-76, but the figures released need to be taken with a grain of salt. A Candid can take off from grass but not at its maximum weight. It is the same for the An-70. From a rough strip the An-70 can carry 35 ton payloads, and the reduction in fuel to take off from rough fields means the range is much shorter with that reduced payload, and it is the same for the Il-76.

    I wonder, if internal width is a problem, why the Indians want the MTA joint venture replacement for the An-12 to have the same internal cargo bay dimensions as the Il-76... or is it that they want the same dimensions as the Il-476 which might have increased the internal dimensions.

    Most of the reports I read on the international use of the Il-76 seem to sing its praise, and it seems to be much more successful than its C-141 rival.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    Sponsored content

    Re: Il-476: News

    Post  Sponsored content Today at 7:00 am


      Current date/time is Thu Dec 08, 2016 7:00 am