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    Concept n_n

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    milky_candy_sugar
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    Concept n_n

    Post  milky_candy_sugar on Sat May 29, 2010 2:26 pm

    Ok, i just made this topic for anyone who wants to post his/her concepts of weapons or cars etc...
    Supercar concept....here goes the final result of long hours modelling, texturing and renderings
    me and my brother have done anything to perfect the studio lighting and the body material.

    Its modelled with 3D Studio Max v7 and rendered using Vray.
    and I might also post some more composed images of the model...








    This took so long
    i AM OBSESSED WITH SUPERCARS LATELY Embarassed

    Julie&Alex concept copyrighted Razz


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    GarryB
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    Re: Concept n_n

    Post  GarryB on Sun May 30, 2010 8:04 am

    Wow, that is very impressive.

    Was the design tool easy to use?

    How expensive was the software?

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    Re: Concept n_n

    Post  milky_candy_sugar on Sun May 30, 2010 9:48 am

    GarryB wrote:Wow, that is very impressive.

    Was the design tool easy to use?

    How expensive was the software?

    the design tool is used by professionals, full of options but not always easy to use... and i dont really know the price of the software, i have a cracked version lol


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    Vladimir79
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    Re: Concept n_n

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sun May 30, 2010 7:54 pm

    No torrents please...

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    Re: Concept n_n

    Post  Ace on Sun May 30, 2010 8:52 pm

    The pictures are amazing.

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    Re: Concept n_n

    Post  milky_candy_sugar on Mon May 31, 2010 2:19 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:No torrents please...
    So sorry Embarassed


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    Re: Concept n_n

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:33 am

    Forgive my ignorance, but what is a torrent?

    Also, it might be a design thing, but can you make the backgrounds for the car lighter instead of black. The pictures look so dark and it makes the model harder to see.

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    Re: Concept n_n

    Post  milky_candy_sugar on Tue Jun 01, 2010 8:01 am

    BitTorrent is a peer-to-peer file sharing protocol used for distributing large amounts of data. BitTorrent is one of the most common protocols for transferring large files... The perfect way to download cracks without being caught...
    As for lighting, having dark background sort of adds some effects Smile but i'll consider your proposal and try to male the background lighter


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    Re: Concept n_n

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:57 pm

    Thanks... for both.

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    Re: Concept n_n

    Post  Stealthflanker on Tue Jun 01, 2010 4:26 pm

    finally there's a place for me to deploy some of my stuff Very Happy

    thanks for making Very Happy

    hmm I'm using Blender 3D ..a free 3D modelling software Very Happy

    uh due to BRUTAL dimension of image, thereby i choose not to display it here

    first let me introduce my AEW Mounted RADAR Export Brochure

    http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/146/6/e/Alkhemia_AESA_RADAR_by_Stealthflanker.png

    This is the UAV
    http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/147/8/a/Yevonia_Shipboard_AEW_UAV_by_Stealthflanker.png



    Hmm My expectations on Future Russian AAM's

    http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/141/8/6/Air_To_Air_Missiles_by_Stealthflanker.png

    more to be deployed here soon

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    Re: Concept n_n

    Post  milky_candy_sugar on Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:06 am

    I did thought of you when i created this topic, i saw some of your concept in here... Very nice work! I never would think of making 3D models of fighter aircrafts.... (too complicated lol)


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    Re: Concept n_n

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jun 03, 2010 12:37 pm

    Wow stealthflanker, very impressive.

    Can I make a suggestion?

    The rear grid controls on the R-77 are ideal for terminal manouver capability, but increase RCS and drag during the initial flight period, so if you are going to have a booster rocket then relatively small low drag fins make more sense than grid fins.

    The second missile from the left looks like a missile design I have thought about before. It looks like an R-77 attached to a booster to extend range. Because the rear grid fins on the R-77 fold forward I thought this layout would be good, though I thought of simply using the rocket engine of the R-27E series missiles but with the R-77s rear grid fins folded forward inside the end of the rocket booster using the main wings of the booster and the strakes of the R-77 being enough for stability, so that when the missile got to the target area the booster is released and the tail fins of the R-77 pop out and it lights up its engine.
    This means that while on the aircraft and for the first part of flight the high RCS reflecting grid fins are folded away generating no drag, but when the missile gets to the target area they deploy to allow max manouver capability for best terminal effect. The R-27E booster rockets are probably cheap and available in large numbers.

    The first missile from the left with what appears to be a booster with an R-73 as a payload with a radar seeker it would probably be better to have simple fins on the booster to reduce drag.
    The R-73 uses thrust vector rocket exhaust so it doesn't need grid fins for control surfaces either.

    The rest of them... Wow... no suggestions to improve. Cool. Well done.

    I like the UAV as well.

    If you can be bothered I had an idea for an AEW aircraft for the Russian Navy and that simply was a large delta shaped aircraft with the radar built in to the wing.
    An AEW aircraft just really needs a radar and fuel so a large delta wing aircraft with an internal triangle shaped radar array with split flaps (the lower and upper surface near the wing tip can be opened at the same time to form an airbrake for yaw control with no tail surfaces).
    The wings can be designed to fold for small footprint on board a ship.
    The enormous fuel capacity can be used as a liquid coolant for the AESA radars.

    I think however to get a decent number of radar elements my flying wing will need to be too thick and your long thinnish wing would be good for higher altitude operations.

    Have you seen the Sukhoi S-62 UAV?

    Here is a photo... note this just seems to be a small model, but the actual aircraft will be very large and expected to operate above 20,000m.

    http://www abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread200297/pg1

    Just replace the dot between www and above.

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    Re: Concept n_n

    Post  Stealthflanker on Thu Jun 03, 2010 4:30 pm

    GarryB wrote:Wow stealthflanker, very impressive.

    Can I make a suggestion?

    The rear grid controls on the R-77 are ideal for terminal manouver capability, but increase RCS and drag during the initial flight period, so if you are going to have a booster rocket then relatively small low drag fins make more sense than grid fins.

    Yeah Thanks Very Happy your suggestions are welcome

    well i think you right, the Archer booster doesn't need a grid fin for control.

    However related to drag issues , i recently obtained a research paper dealing with reduction of Drag in grid fins by shaping it in a manner of swept ..like depicted below .



    The paper claimed drag reduction up to 40% and Lift to drag ratio improvement to some 30% over conventional grid fins






    The issues now lies in the RCS
    So far however i found no research paper (yet) that deals with RCS reduction of Grid fins. but well i believe i'll found one eventually .



    The second missile from the left looks like a missile design I have thought about before. It looks like an R-77 attached to a booster to extend range. Because the rear grid fins on the R-77 fold forward I thought this layout would be good, though I thought of simply using the rocket engine of the R-27E series missiles but with the R-77s rear grid fins folded forward inside the end of the rocket booster using the main wings of the booster and the strakes of the R-77 being enough for stability, so that when the missile got to the target area the booster is released and the tail fins of the R-77 pop out and it lights up its engine.
    This means that while on the aircraft and for the first part of flight the high RCS reflecting grid fins are folded away generating no drag, but when the missile gets to the target area they deploy to allow max manouver capability for best terminal effect. The R-27E booster rockets are probably cheap and available in large numbers.

    yeah i was also thinking the same of using R-27 like depicted here



    unfortunately i lost the original 3D file.. thus i can no longer improve it by adding some more details


    I like the UAV as well.

    If you can be bothered I had an idea for an AEW aircraft for the Russian Navy and that simply was a large delta shaped aircraft with the radar built in to the wing.
    An AEW aircraft just really needs a radar and fuel so a large delta wing aircraft with an internal triangle shaped radar array with split flaps (the lower and upper surface near the wing tip can be opened at the same time to form an airbrake for yaw control with no tail surfaces).
    The wings can be designed to fold for small footprint on board a ship.
    The enormous fuel capacity can be used as a liquid coolant for the AESA radars.

    I think however to get a decent number of radar elements my flying wing will need to be too thick and your long thinnish wing would be good for higher altitude operations.


    Good idea..meanwhile i'm thinking of Sukhoi would be a good AEW platform Very Happy lke Russian Su-28

    hehe this is one of my early work during learning modelling in 3D



    well i know the shape of the RADAR isn't correct..however there's no way to edit since the model was gone due to shrot circuited harddisk .

    as for the "flying wing" UAV this could be a good baseline Very Happy




    Have you seen the Sukhoi S-62 UAV?

    Here is a photo... note this just seems to be a small model, but the actual aircraft will be very large and expected to operate above 20,000m.

    http://www abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread200297/pg1

    Just replace the dot between www and above.

    Yes i have seen that model .. hehehe pretty interesting indeed with triangular shaped RADAR

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    Re: Concept n_n

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:28 am

    Nice chat. Smile

    I particularly found the new grid fin information interesting, they are used on the R-77 because they use less actuator power to operate and the angle of attack can be much higher without the risk of stalling compared to a conventional fin.
    The butterfly fins on the R-27 (the fins where the fin tips are wider than the fin root) are also designed to enhance terminal manouver capability because they are more efficient than conventional fins.

    Regarding that Flanker with radar on its back, I had similar pencil drawings except my final design had a two fin structure holding a large triangular radar with the flat base of the triangle as a leading edge like a straight wing with the point of the triangle pointing directly back between the two tail surfaces. The radar to be fixed and was designed to have AESA antennas on its three sides but to have aviation fuel in a centre area to be pumped around the AESA elements to cool them.

    Smile too much free time perhaps.

    I also like the traditional Yak-44 design and always thought they should have complete it anyway as an AEW or AWACs aircraft that size would probably sell quite well to countries with smaller airforces with smaller budgets unable to afford A-50s.

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    Re: Concept n_n

    Post  Stealthflanker on Thu Jun 17, 2010 6:42 am

    anyone onto "Mini Moskit" ? Very Happy


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    Re: Concept n_n

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jun 17, 2010 8:43 am

    I remember an American guy showing me a picture of an old US design that looked exactly like the Kh-31 and he said it was proof that the Russians copy everything American.
    Of course we looked at the dates and it seems his American example was actually made several years after the SA-6 entered service in the Soviet Armed forces... it was an earlier example of a combined rocket ramjet propulsion where the solid rocket booster was fitted in the large empty space inside the ramjet engine rather than added on the end as a second stage like an SA-19 or American Standard SAM, or with solid rocket boosters attached around the fuselage like the SA-4 and SA-5.

    He tried to tell me the Kh-31 couldn't be used from the Su-25TM because the Su-25TM was too slow and the missile couldn't accelerate to a speed where the ramjet would work.
    I had to point out early tests of ramjet engines on the Polikarpov I-15 (the biplane version) to show ramjets just need forward speed to work, they don't need supersonic speed.

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    Re: Concept n_n

    Post  Stealthflanker on Thu Jun 17, 2010 5:24 pm

    GarryB wrote:I remember an American guy showing me a picture of an old US design that looked exactly like the Kh-31 and he said it was proof that the Russians copy everything American.
    Of course we looked at the dates and it seems his American example was actually made several years after the SA-6 entered service in the Soviet Armed forces... it was an earlier example of a combined rocket ramjet propulsion where the solid rocket booster was fitted in the large empty space inside the ramjet engine rather than added on the end as a second stage like an SA-19 or American Standard SAM, or with solid rocket boosters attached around the fuselage like the SA-4 and SA-5.

    He tried to tell me the Kh-31 couldn't be used from the Su-25TM because the Su-25TM was too slow and the missile couldn't accelerate to a speed where the ramjet would work.
    I had to point out early tests of ramjet engines on the Polikarpov I-15 (the biplane version) to show ramjets just need forward speed to work, they don't need supersonic speed.


    That's quite interesting, i wonder what design it is, since as far as i know The KH-31 was original Russian design , and it was bought by Boeing as "MA-31"

    and yes the Kh-31 use a Rocket Ramjet propulsion , where a grain of solid fuel booster propellant were placed in the Liquid Ramjet's combustion chamber , once the solid propellant expended , the ramjet started to work Very Happy

    and yes the Ramjet requires only forward speed to work , i was used to have some pictures depicting some Soviet aircrafts before WW-II that fitted with Ramjet shaped as Tube and Soviet pulsejet engine that made in flight before Argus's pulsejet.

    However Supersonic speed is required for the ramjet mainly for efficiency Very Happy


    anyway Regarding to Your Forum Mate's claim regarding whether Kh-31 cannot be used on Su-25 because "lack of starting velocity", hehehe how about testing that claim with little mathematics and approximation Very Happy

    The KH-31's solid fuel booster propellant is used mainly to accelerate the missile to the supersonic speed , it's boost performance will mainly depend on the rocket motor's thrust, ISP and how long it will burn , as well as Average drag parameters .

    from those parameters we can actually estimate the Boost velocity performance .

    with following equations taken from "Fleeman :Tactical Missile Design 1st edition"



    with parameter definition as follows :

    -Gc :Gravity acceleration 9,81m/s or 32,2 Fps
    Isp :Is the rocket motor's specific impulse , typical solid rocket is around 250 seconds

    The Davg : is the Average drag parameters in weight unit (kg or lb) , this is measured in the beginning till the end of boost phase .

    T :is the Rocket motor's thrust, typical boost require at least 10x T/W ratio for safe separation from launch platform (CMIIW)

    WP/WL : is a ratio of boost propellant weight (WP) and Launch Weight (WL)

    well now we have all the parameters defined, now let's define the missile and its launch environment :

    our missile would be Kh-31P with launch weight around 600 Kg (1333 Lbs), carried by Su-25 , cruising in Mach 0,85 in altitude of some 6000 meters AGL , the average drag in that altitude will be assumed as some 500Kg (1111 Lbs), weight of the boost propellant would be assumed to be some 35% of the launch weight thus the Launch propellant would weighs 600*0.35= 210kg (466,6 Lbs), and delivers thrust of 6000Kg (13.333 Lbf) (10x Launch weight) .

    Now we have all the required calculation parameters satisfied, so we can begin to cook of the result :

    a slight note, i did the equations in British Engineering units since i have some uncertainty in using it in metric units, however i'll get that doubt debugged soom.

    Calculations parameters :
    Gc=32,2 fps
    Isp=250 Seconds
    Davg=1111 Lbs
    Thrust=13.333 Lbs
    Launch Weight :1333 Lbs
    propellant weight :466,6 Lbs

    So plugging all those value here would result :

    Boost velocity (Fps)=-32,2*250*(1-(1111/13333))*LN(1-(466/1333))

    Boost Velocity (Fps)=3176.528 Feet/Second or 968,45 meter/second and in altitude of 6000 meters with speed of sound 315 meter/ second, the Missile in the end of boost phase would be able to do Mach 968,45/315= 3,1 yes it's Mach 3,1 should be more than enough for the ramjet to cook efficiently.

    hmm if you wish to repeat above calculations, i suggest using Excel or comparable program Very Happy

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    Re: Concept n_n

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:53 am

    Impressive maths...

    however I just looked up the missiles launch parameters which state a minimum launch speed from an aircraft as being 600km/h, which of course an Su-25 can manage even fully loaded.

    The Su-25 will generally be flying low and relatively slow and is a combat air support aircraft so its likely use against a ship is relatively unlikely so we can ignore the Kh-31A anti ship model. The Kh-31P medium range anti radar missile has a launch envelope of 100m to 15km in altitude and 600 to 1,250km/h so for max range targets the Frogfoot could easily climb a bit for height and launch in a shallow dive, so at full weapon load it should get to maybe 750-800km/h. With a light load it can manage 950km/h.

    The American missile was some prototype that never got to service. I know about the M31... that was a good trick. Smile

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    Re: Concept n_n

    Post  milky_candy_sugar on Mon Jun 21, 2010 5:38 pm

    Maths....what can i say about this? " @_@ " ...probably the only thing i can pull out LOL


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    Re: Concept n_n

    Post  Stealthflanker on Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:13 pm

    milky_candy_sugar wrote:Maths....what can i say about this? " @_@ " ...probably the only thing i can pull out LOL

    uh sorry.. however i think they're very simple to do..and not require calculus or such ..

    Rolling Eyes


    well aside from that..here's a stuff that i did few days ago.. a "YF-23" Like Very Happy

    not completed yet..but i think it's enough for preview


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    Re: Concept n_n

    Post  GarryB on Sat Jun 26, 2010 2:28 am

    I have heard talk that the T-50 might not have the horizontal tail surfaces once the final engines are fitted with 3D thrust vectoring capability.
    Would you be able to model the T-50 both with and without the horizontal tail surfaces to see what it would look like?

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    Re: Concept n_n

    Post  Stealthflanker on Sat Jun 26, 2010 3:31 pm

    GarryB wrote:I have heard talk that the T-50 might not have the horizontal tail surfaces once the final engines are fitted with 3D thrust vectoring capability.
    Would you be able to model the T-50 both with and without the horizontal tail surfaces to see what it would look like?

    sounds cool Very Happy

    let's see what can i do

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    Re: Concept n_n

    Post  milky_candy_sugar on Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:34 am

    i'm just going to stick with cars...

    Ipad sketching series using Autodesk Sketchbook Pro for Ipad







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    Re: Concept n_n

    Post  Stealthflanker on Sun Oct 03, 2010 6:46 pm

    milky_candy_sugar wrote:i'm just going to stick with cars...

    Ipad sketching series using Autodesk Sketchbook Pro for Ipad


    your cars are always awesome Shocked

    hmm and a slight preview of my 3D kitchen


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    Re: Concept n_n

    Post  milky_candy_sugar on Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:24 pm

    Thanks!! Do you think that i'll ever get a chance to become a car designer? Very Happy


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