GarryB wrote:The new ammo was right in front of my face... when they posted the photo of the guy holding the ASh-12 there was another photo of nice shiny bullets of all sorts of types.

Here is it here:

http://i41.servimg.com/u/f41/15/11/39/27/dsc11411.jpg

They do look shiny for sure but also life threatening

Would be interesting to see them together and fired from their respective weapons.

The 12.7 x 55mm rounds for the Vychlop are heavy and slow, while the 12.7 x 55mm rounds for the ASh-12 are lighter and faster, but still very heavy and large calibre compared with standard assault rifle rounds.

A 7.62mm hunting round will generally mushroom on impact to a diametre of 12.7mm calibre, so these rounds will have that sort of effect on the target. The difference is they will likely retain their shape and will therefore likely penetrate better.

Would be an interesting round for shooting pigs actually as it would likely have good penetration in the faster rounds.

It will likely be a good round to penetrate doors and walls to hit targets hiding behind.

The bottom right three (a 9mm pistol round, though the calibre is 4.5 x 19mm, but it is a subcalibre projectile in a 9mm NATO round) plus two 5.45 x 39mm rounds are all underwater rounds for use by navy special forces.

The two 5.45mm rounds are used in the ADS against targets in the water (from the shore), from under the water at targets in the water, and from in the water at targets on shore or on boats. Standard ammo is used for firing above water at above water targets of course.

I suspect these new types of ammo will allow Russian miltary forces to perhaps use standard weapons (rifles and pistols) against threats and target in the water.

Will be interesting to learn more about all of these new types of ammo for the Russian military and police forces...

This report:

http://en.rian.ru/business/20111221/170413185.html

Teaches us to not read too much into small clues... something I do a lot... guilty as charged...

He basically dismisses claims that the AK will suddenly disappear from Russian service, he also says they have plenty of weapons in stock.

Now in the Army for special units like Spetsnaz (GRU), but also in the Navy (naval spetsnaz) and in the FSB (Alpha), and of course the VDV and Naval Infantry units that are classed as elite in very small batches they might purchase limited numbers of foreign systems.

I know for a fact that the FSB special teams they have purchased CornerShot from the Israelis, but that they were developing their own equivalent that would be compatible with Soviet and Russian military pistols and SMGs.

For a new Assault Rifle the VDV and NI have been described as testing the ADS rifle and also some force are using AN-94s.

Based on this I doubt a new AK-200 will be mass produced to replace the AK-74, but as long as it is fairly straight forward and relatively easy to produce (unlike the AN-94 which is probably too complicated to mass produce and put in general service) that it might be used by special forces instead of the tricked out AK-74Ms they are currently using.

I rather suspect that they will likely include the new rifle (whether it is the AK-74M (which is basically the AK-100... the 5.45mm calibre rifle barrel length AK-100 series rifle, with the AK-105 being the 5.45mm calibre carbine length barrel equivalent.) or if a new version of the AN-94 from Nikonov, or new model of the AEK-971 from Kovrov, or ADS from KBP, will become part of the new Russian model of FELIN and the new rifle, which ever is chosen will be issued to the troops at that sort of rate (ie elite first and then filtering down).

This is all just my opinion of course.

I still think this is what they should base the AK-200 on.

If it hasn't got a balanced recoil mechanism then just add some rails to existing weapons and fit a 60 round double stack mag and just start training the troops to shoot left handed.

All of a sudden it is very ergonomic... and if left handers can learn to shoot right handed then right handed people should manage learning to shoot left handed...

BTW that rifle is a further development of the AK-107, with a picatinny rail added and a rear peep iron sight as shown more clearly in this photo:



I would think that repeating the selector on the right side of the rifle and perhaps adding a large vertical bar to the end of the cocking handle to make it easier to reach over and operate plus low profile rails over the front and top of the rifle and of course the 60 round mag and new rear mounted iron sights might make a cheap and simple AK-12.

As an alternative you could make a more complex upgrade with the bolt carrier having cocking handles on both sides and a push button safety that can be near your thumb so you can have the rifle set to fire full auto but with the push button safety on.
I would cover the front and top of the rifle in low profile rails, and keep the AK-107s rear mounted iron sight and balanced recoil mechanism and add a 3 round burst as well as full auto.
I would also design the barrel so that it can be removed and with the bolt replaced can change calibre.

This more complex upgrade will be ideal for special forces as it means you can have one rifle in 5.45 x 39mm, or if you prefer you can have it in 7.62 x 39mm... depending on where you are operating, and for sneaky stuff you can fit the 9 x 39mm barrel for quiet ops without needing 3 separate rifles.

You can also have models of different barrel length, so you could have a short barrel SMG like model, a mid calibre carbine like the AK-105, a rifle length version, a marksman/LMG length barrel model for longer range shooting.

The magazines for these three calibres are all basically the same size, and the actions are similar.

You would want the barrel and bolt carrier and bolt to be designed in a way so that the wrong bolt, bolt carrier, barrel, and magazine combination is not possible... a 5.45 x 39mm round in a 9 x 39mm probably just wouldn't fire because the firing pin will not contact the primer, or if you have 5.45mm bolts, bolt carriers, and magazines but a 9 x 39mm barrel then you will find accuracy and muzzle velocity to be very poor, but trying to fire a 9 x 39mm down a 5.45 x 39mm or even a 7.62 x 39mm barrel might be a problem.

So obviously the weapon would need to be designed to prevent the wrong ammo being used.

New Mags could potentially add the option of last shot hold open device like on the SKS.

The new sight will allow for the Navy to shoot around the corner, hiding in the shelter

http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20120112/537637751.html

That is the thermal sight the VDV were testing a while back... they have clearly completed the updates and have it ready for use.


Note the Russian military bought some corner shot systems from Israel, which they liked but had to redesign them to take Soviet and Russian weapons instead of western weapons as the original system was designed to handle.

This is different however as this is a thermal sight that can clearly transmit live video to the soldiers helmet mounted sight...

That will leave them a bit red faced, though it is pretty clear that the problem is with the recycling place... sending 80 rifles to be destroyed suggests they might have been faulty, or well used test examples perhaps?

You wouldn't send brand new rifles to be destroyed unless they were unsellable... and the Russian military might not be interested in older models any more but I am sure there are plenty of exporters that could sell them for more than their weight in recycled metal and plastic.

What are the pluses and minuses of Ak-12 assult rifle ?

What happens to the famed AK-200 rifle if AK-12 gets selected or will they both compete and winner takes it all ?