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    TOR-M2 Air Defence system

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    Militarov

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    Re: TOR-M2 Air Defence system

    Post  Militarov on Mon May 09, 2016 7:51 pm

    jhelb wrote:
    GarryB wrote:I would say the difficulty in defeating a moving TOR vehicle launching missiles at targets would be enormous and would be well worth it. I suspect when protecting a convoy then operating on the move would make it a much more valuable vehicle to defend the group. Not having to stop to fire means the convoy can continue...

    Garry, am not sure if you have seen this video, I found it on a Russian forum that I visit frequently.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85q22wIk1_w

    You will notice that the first 2 missiles fired by the TOR follows a zigzag path, however the missiles fired later follows a straight path.

    So can the missiles be programmed to follow a zigzag or straight path towards the target? Thanks.

    Zigzag as you call it is simply intercept trajectory estimate correction from by guidance system, it happens on all systems. Later during the flights its determined by intercept algorithms as Zivo already stated. But its pure math, stochastic approximation. AA missiles itself do not have "avoidance" maneuvers.

    Depending on algorithms used on system in question missile will position itself differently though flight.
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    GarryB

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    Re: TOR-M2 Air Defence system

    Post  GarryB on Tue May 10, 2016 11:48 am

    First of all nice vid... thanks for posting.

    There are two factors involved in the zig zaggy flight of the missiles... one is speed related and the other is control related.

    Very simply as the speed changes for the missiles the force generated by the control surfaces changes so as the missiles accelerate the control surfaces generate more and more lift or control force... when it starts to accelerate the control surfaces have to go full turn to get a change of heading but as the missile accelerates that force rapidly increases... think of it as a car... when going at slow speed you need significant turns of the wheel to get the car to turn one way or another but as the car accelerates you turn the wheel less and less to get it to turn.

    The control aspect is also important as the guidance system works by working out where the missile is in relation to the target, so like with an ATGM there is a half a second when the missile is launched where the command system gathers the missile under control and sends it in the correct direction to intercept the target.

    There is absolutely zero value in flying a zig zag flight profile to intercept... it just reduces speed and wastes energy.

    Once the control system has gathered the missile and the missile is moving at speed the missile will be directed to an intercept point where the target will be when the missile arrives... the target will not necessarily be heading directly at the SAM so the missile might be sent in an unusual direction for the intercept.

    Basically the time to intercept the target will be calculated and the missile will be directed to a point in space in front of the target based on its speed and flight direction... so if it is flying at 20m/s and the intercept will take 10 seconds for the missile to get there the missile wont be directed to where the target is right now, but 200m in front of where it is now... ie where it will be when the missile gets there.

    If the target is flying straight and level and does not change speed then few corrections will be needed, but if the target is dancing all over the sky... changing speed and direction randomly then its future position will be constantly tracked and course corrections will be averaged out to get as close as possible... until impact.


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    jhelb

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    Re: TOR-M2 Air Defence system

    Post  jhelb on Sat May 28, 2016 7:17 pm

    GarryB wrote:Point is that these seekers look for IR patterns rather than actual targets so a group of rocks on the ground could look like a vehicle or vice versa

    Will Tor get a fire & forget missile any time soon?
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    Rmf

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    Re: TOR-M2 Air Defence system

    Post  Rmf on Thu Jun 09, 2016 7:27 pm

    in kazahstan tor on kamaz truck

    https://lenta.ru/news/2016/06/02/tor_kamaz/
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    Militarov

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    Re: TOR-M2 Air Defence system

    Post  Militarov on Sat Jun 11, 2016 4:12 pm

    "Russia’s Tor (NATO reporting name: SA-15 Gauntlet) surface-to-air missile system will become fully robotized and be able to destroy targets autonomously, Deputy CEO and Air Defense Missile System Chief Designer at the Kupol Electromechanical Factory Iosif Drize told TASS. As the deputy CEO said, the Tor air defense missile system can work autonomously today but an operator is required in heavy jamming conditions.

    The TOR-M1 9A331-1 (NATO code : SA-15 Gauntlet) surface-to-air missile system is a mobile, integrated air defense system designed and manufacrured by the The Russian Defence Industry. The TOR-M1 features a turret with a top mounted target acquisition radar, and frontal tracking radar, with 8 ready to fire 9M330 or 9M331 missiles stored vertically between the two radars.

    With a weight of 167 kg, the 9M330 missile is 3.5 m long, carries a 15 kg warhead and has a peak speed of around Mach 2.8. Missiles can also be fired against surface targets. Each missile is a sealed round, stored in two groups of four. Engagement range is up to 12 km with minimum range varying between 100–2000 m, depending upon version and an effective altitude of 10–6000 m.

    "There are plans to increase the capabilities of the artificial intelligence so that the system can accomplish combat missions without an operator," Drize said. As the deputy CEO said, the enterprise is currently working on the Tor air defense missile system to boost its capabilities for destroying cruise missiles based on the stealth technology.

    "We are working on the system to make it able to reliably detect and destroy targets with low signature," he added. The Almaz-Antey Corporation said earlier that it had started working on an Arctic version of the Tor surface-to-air missile system.

    Moreover, the corporation may develop a shipborne version of the Tor air defense missile system. According to the Almaz-Antey Corporation, the first shipborne Tor air defense missile systems can be manufactured in 2018-2019."


    Source: http://www.armyrecognition.com/june_2016_global_defense_security_news_industry/russian-made_tor_sa-15_gauntlet_air_defense_missile_system_will_become_fully_robotized_tass_10906165.html
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    sepheronx

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    Re: TOR-M2 Air Defence system

    Post  sepheronx on Sat Jun 11, 2016 7:30 pm

    I always had a soft spot for Tor over the Pantsir. Glad to hear they are making them more automated as that is what I figured they would do to both Tor and Pantsir eventually in order to increase number of them without having to increase number of people to operate them.

    Interestingly enough, they didn't mention in your post the 9M338 missile. This is the latest and would probably replace all others in the future. hopefully.
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    Isos

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    Re: TOR-M2 Air Defence system

    Post  Isos on Sat Jun 11, 2016 8:32 pm

    sepheronx wrote:I always had a soft spot for Tor over the Pantsir.  Glad to hear they are making them more automated as that is what I figured they would do to both Tor and Pantsir eventually in order to increase number of them without having to increase number of people to operate them.

    Interestingly enough, they didn't mention in your post the 9M338 missile.  This is the latest and would probably replace all others in the future.  hopefully.

    Having bot of them makes jamming a lot harder. Deadly combot for any flying object.

    Fully robotized isn't a little bit dangerous for civilian planes ? And you need a really good trained radar operator to pick up the planes in hard ECM environment, I don't think tehnology can do this better than human.
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    Viktor

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    Re: TOR-M2 Air Defence system

    Post  Viktor on Sun Jul 03, 2016 3:03 pm

    Nice thumbsup

    Now the moment we have been waiting for - TOR with 16 missiles and new type of missiles Very Happy - two regimental sets will be delivered by the end of this year

    Russian troops in 2016 will receive 2 sets of air defense systems, "Tor-M2"

    MOSCOW, July 2 -. RIA Novosti Two sets of modified anti-aircraft missile system "Tor-M2" with twice increased ammunition arrive in the Russian army in 2016, said on Saturday, the chief of Defense Forces Land Forces, Lieutenant-General Alexander Leonov.
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    franco

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    Re: TOR-M2 Air Defence system

    Post  franco on Sun Jul 03, 2016 3:21 pm

    Viktor wrote:Nice  thumbsup

    Now the moment we have been waiting for - TOR with 16 missiles and new type of missiles Very Happy - two regimental sets will be delivered by the end of this year

    Russian troops in 2016 will receive 2 sets of air defense systems, "Tor-M2"

    MOSCOW, July 2 -. RIA Novosti Two sets of modified anti-aircraft missile system "Tor-M2" with twice increased ammunition arrive in the Russian army in 2016, said on Saturday, the chief of Defense Forces Land Forces, Lieutenant-General Alexander Leonov.

    I took that to mean twice the range not twice the weapons load. We will have to see.
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    Viktor

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    Re: TOR-M2 Air Defence system

    Post  Viktor on Sun Jul 03, 2016 3:24 pm

    franco wrote:I took that to mean twice the range not twice the weapons load. We will have to see.

    No. New missile will expand the engagement envelope but we have been discussing here because this is not first such info - double the munition Laughing Laughing
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    medo

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    Re: TOR-M2 Air Defence system

    Post  medo on Sun Jul 03, 2016 5:06 pm

    franco wrote:
    Viktor wrote:Nice  thumbsup

    Now the moment we have been waiting for - TOR with 16 missiles and new type of missiles Very Happy - two regimental sets will be delivered by the end of this year

    Russian troops in 2016 will receive 2 sets of air defense systems, "Tor-M2"

    MOSCOW, July 2 -. RIA Novosti Two sets of modified anti-aircraft missile system "Tor-M2" with twice increased ammunition arrive in the Russian army in 2016, said on Saturday, the chief of Defense Forces Land Forces, Lieutenant-General Alexander Leonov.

    I took that to mean twice the range not twice the weapons load. We will have to see.

    With the new Tor-M2 missiles, they will double the number of missiles from 8 to 16. But they also have increased range from 12 km to 15 km.
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    Viktor

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    Re: TOR-M2 Air Defence system

    Post  Viktor on Wed Jul 06, 2016 1:54 pm

    New TOR-M2U delivered to Russian ground air defense

    The latest missile systems, "Tor M2U" came to the troops

    SAM "trafficking in M2" has 12 surface-to-air missile , capable of hitting targets flying at speeds up to 700 meters per second at a distance of 12 kilometers and at an altitude of six thousand meters.
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    George1

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    Re: TOR-M2 Air Defence system

    Post  George1 on Sun Jul 10, 2016 9:56 pm

    New Tor-M2U air defense missile systems arrive in tank unit in Siberia

    More:
    http://tass.ru/en/defense/886630

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2006953.html


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    GarryB

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    Re: TOR-M2 Air Defence system

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jul 12, 2016 1:11 am

    Will Tor get a fire & forget missile any time soon?

    I hope not.

    Fire and forget capability makes each missile rather more expensive and a tiny seeker in the missile would be easier to defeat than the rather powerful and sophisticated electronics mounted on the TOR vehicle.


    The main advantage of fire and forget missiles is that in a saturation attack fire and forget missiles can be launched rapidly, whereas the current command guided missiles need guidance channels to control them limiting them to about 4 simultaneous targets at one time. The high speed of the missiles and the increase in missile numbers means that should be plenty though more sophisticated tracking radar should allow an increase in that performance factor a phased array with three to four faces covering 360 degrees would be the best solution.

    Very simply put the current radar system is amazing for a vehicle mounted air defence system, but having a tracking radar in the front means targets coming in from all directions at once requires a minimum of four vehicles for 360 degree coverage.

    Four face phased array radars for search and tracking functions means continuous 360 degree coverage and likely a large increase in the number of targets tracked and missiles guided to targets. An EO channel would add options in heavy jamming situations too.

    The advantage of the TOR and Pantsir systems was the fact that the missiles are simple and cheap so the system is cheap and easy to use against even drone targets.

    A few IIR or MMW radar guided missiles would make sense within a battery I suppose... the HERMES missile will be getting such sensors and will be used together with Pantsir batteries too.

    The automation of the TOR system is likely to allow fitting of the automated turret system onto the new platforms with unmanned turrets... I wonder if they will take the opportunity to make dramatic changes to the design... ie imagine an ARMATA vehicle with a tiny forward mounted turret and front mounted engine with the small turret consisting of a 3 or four faced array radar system with an EO ball on top for IIR detection and the rear deck consisting of an array of vertically stacked missiles in a large pallet. If they can fit 16 of the new missiles in the old turret they should be able to fit double that in the rear deck area of an armata tank with the engine at the front... 32 missiles ready to fire and being at the rear it could be module based and able to be removed in one piece and replaced with a fully loaded module for fast reloads.

    The three or four faced radar array would not need to rotate and could be fixed. the EO ball on top could be a mini turret with multiple optical ports looking in several directions at once including up and include the optics for the commander and perhaps a self defence MG and grenade launcher.


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    Austin

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    Re: TOR-M2 Air Defence system

    Post  Austin on Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:42 pm

    Tor Variant

    http://arsenal-otechestva.ru/article/479-last-defence
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    jhelb

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    Re: TOR-M2 Air Defence system

    Post  jhelb on Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:54 am

    Latest Video From TV Channel Zvezda

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    Benya

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    Arctic variant of Tor-M2

    Post  Benya on Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:32 pm

    Confirmed! Arctic variant of Tor-M2 is under development (platform and designation also confirmed)

    Kupol to develop Arctic variant of Tor-M2 SAM system

    Russia`s JSC Izhevsk Electromechanical Plant Kupol (a subsidiary of the Almaz-Antey Concern) is developing the Arctic variant of the Tor-M2 (NATO reporting name: SA-15 Gauntlet) mobile surface-to-air missile (SAM) system, according to the No.31603940773 notification published on the state acquisitions website.


    The Tor-M2 SAM system

    The modification of the Tor-M2 SAM system for the troops deployed to the Arctic region is designated as Tor-M2DT (Russia`s MoD designation: 9K331DT). According to the notification, the system will be based on the DT-30PM tracked double-section tractor developed by the Vityaz Machine-Building Plant (Ishimbay, Bashkiria). The Tor-M2DT mobile launching unit (DT-30PM-T1, MoD designation: 9A331MDT) is supposed to include the 9A331MT launcher and a life support module. The DT-30PM-T1 vehicle will be complemented by the DT-30PM-T2 mobile maintenance workshop.

    According to the notification, the Kupol enterprise is to produce one DT-30PM-T1 mobile launching unit and one DT-30PM-T2 mobile maintenance workshop by October 30, 2016. The type tests of the new vehicles are scheduled for the 1st quarter of 2017. The company is to spend about RUB122 million (USD2 million) to conduct the aforementioned works.


    The DT-30 is a Russian-made all-terrain tracked carrier vehicle.

    Official article:
    Arrow http://www.armyrecognition.com/august_2016_global_defense_security_news_industry/kupol_to_develop_arctic_variant_of_tor-m2_sam_system_50808163.html
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    airstrike

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    Re: TOR-M2 Air Defence system

    Post  airstrike on Fri Sep 30, 2016 4:01 pm

    Tor-M2U air defense system ready to enter service with the Russian Army

    http://echelon-defense.com/2016/09/30/tor-m2u-air-defense-system-ready-to-enter-service-with-the-russian-army/
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    George1

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    Re: TOR-M2 Air Defence system

    Post  George1 on Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:05 am

    Has begun delivery of anti-aircraft missile systems, "Tor-M2"

    He told reporters Russian Chief of Land Forces, Colonel-General Oleg Salyukov, in the past [2016] The ground forces (SV) received two brigade sets of air defense missile systems (SAM) "Buk-M3" and "Buk-M2".

    In addition, according to him, in the NE has received two divisional set of "Tor-M2" and two "Top-M2U".

    Comment bmpd. Thus, according to the first two divisional series sets of new 9K331M SAM "Tor-M2" were delivered, in 2016, Colonel-General A. Salyukova, the land forces, which marks the start of serial production of the system at JSC "Izhevsk Electromechanical Plant" Dome "Concern Almaz-Antey". Ammunition combat vehicle of SAM "Tor-M2" is 16 new surface-to-air missiles 9M338K.

    Earlier in the summer about the planned delivery in 2016 of the first two sets divisional SAM "Tor-M2" said the chief of Defense Forces Land Forces, Lieutenant-General Alexander Leonov.

    Compounds that have been set first sets of air defense missile systems, "Tor-M2", has not yet been called.

    Simultaneously, the troops continued supply of SAM previous generation 9K331MU "Tor-M2U" ("Tor M1-2U") with missiles 9M331. As already reported, in our blog, the two set out in the 2016 divisional set of "Tor-M2U" were received from the 4th Guards Kantemirovskaya Tank Division of the Western Military District (Moscow Region) and 5th separate Guards Tank Brigade of the Eastern Military District (Buryatia).

    Earlier, in 2012-2015, according to the known information, the Russian ground forces were supplied six divisional sets of "Tor-M2U" ( "Thor M1-2U") - part of the 20th separate motorized rifle brigade of the Southern Military District (Volgograd in 2012), the 2nd Guards Taman Motorized Rifle division of the Western military District (Moscow region, in 2013), the 59th and 60th individual Eastern military District motorized infantry brigades (Primorsky Krai, in 2014), the 18th pulemetno- artillery division of the Eastern military District (the Kuril Islands, in 2015) and of the 726 th air defense training center of the Land forces (Yeisk) (2015).

    Our blog reported that IEMZ "Dome" ordered delivery from JSC "Mytishchi machine-building plant" during the years 2017-2018 a total of 48 tracked chassis GM-5955.15-01 for 9A331M combat vehicles - that is, for the manufacture of four divisional sets 9K331M "Tor-M2 ".

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2366970.html


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    George1

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    Re: TOR-M2 Air Defence system

    Post  George1 on Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:36 pm

    MOSCOW, March 15. /TASS/. Advanced Tor-M2U (NATO reporting name: SA-15 Gauntlet) surface-to-air missile systems have entered into service with the 1st Guards Tank Army in Russia’s Western Military District and will soon assume combat duty in the Moscow Region, the district’s press office said on Wednesday.

    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/935742


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    Re: TOR-M2 Air Defence system

    Post  George1 on Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:58 am

    IZHEVSK, March 23. /TASS/. Works for developing the Tor-M2DT short-range anti-aircraft missile system for the Arctic application are planned to be finished by the end of this year, Air Defense Force Commander Lieutenant-General Alexander Leonov said on Thursday.

    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/937134


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    George1

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    Re: TOR-M2 Air Defence system

    Post  George1 on Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:31 pm

    The first regimental kit of the Tor-M2 surface-to-air missile system was delivered.

    As reported by Interfax-AVN, the Izhevsk Electromechanical Plant Kupol ordered the first order of the regiment of a modern short-range Tor-M2 short-range antiaircraft missile system for the 538th anti-aircraft missile regiment of the 4th Guards Kantemirovskaya Tank Division Western Military District, said on March 24, 2017 during the Single Day of Acceptance commander of the said regiment Konstantin Demidov.



    The bmpd comment. Recall that in 2016, the Ground Forces of Russia were supplied with the first two serial divisional kits of the new 9K331M "Tor-M2" air defense missile, which marked the beginning of a series production of this system at the JSC Izhevsk Electromechanical Plant Kupol Concern VKO Almaz-Antey. Of the combat vehicle of the Tor-M2 missile system are 16 new anti-aircraft guided missiles 9M338K.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2511001.html


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    George1

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    Re: TOR-M2 Air Defence system

    Post  George1 on Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:34 pm

    The tests of the Tor-M2KM anti-aircraft missile system on the frigate Admiral Grigorovich

    Interesting photo and video materials of the tests of the independent combat module of the short-range 9K331MKM short-range missile system Tor-M2KM, placed on the helicopter deck of the head frigate Admiral Grigorovich of Project 11356, conducted in the Black Sea in October 2016.



    According to the information of the JSC "Izhevsk Electromechanical Plant" Kupol ", the main task of the tests was to assess in practice the possibilities of using the Tor-M2KM missile defense system in the interests of the Navy. The tests gave a large amount of information on the impact of sea conditions on the combat operations of the Tor-M2 missile system and confirmed the wide possibilities of using the Tor-M2KM self-contained combat module.









    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2510628.html


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    AlfaT8

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    Re: TOR-M2 Air Defence system

    Post  AlfaT8 on Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:47 pm

    So we're looking at a possible containerized version of the TOR system being implemented soon minus the camouflage, unless it has a separate dedicated TAR.
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    flamming_python

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    Re: TOR-M2 Air Defence system

    Post  flamming_python on Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:34 pm

    AlfaT8 wrote:So we're looking at a possible containerized version of the TOR system being implemented soon minus the camouflage, unless it has a separate dedicated TAR.

    Possibly, but they might have just shackled a module to the deck just as a proof of concept thing or to carry out a couple of tests.

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