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    F-35 Development and News Thread:

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    collegeboy16
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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  collegeboy16 on Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:18 am

    GarryB wrote:I strongly suspect the light 5th gen fighter will be stealthy but also cheaper and as such be very appealing on the international market.

    However I strongly suspect that current F-35 operators will not make such a political statement as to change from a US fighter to a Russian one... no matter how much it costs them.
     
    Simples really, just take a page from the west book of marketing- make a consortium. The Italians have no problems marketing the m346 trainer aircraft and the euros have their own avionics and weapons plus possibly engines.
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    nemrod
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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  nemrod on Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:55 pm

    collegeboy16 wrote:
    Simples really, just take a page from the west book of marketing- make a consortium. The Italians have no problems marketing the m346 trainer aircraft and the euros have their own avionics and weapons plus possibly engines.

    Sincerly, seeing these huge US problems :

    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2014-02-05/opinion/ct-chicago-debt-edit-0205-20140205_1_bond-sales-chicago-public-schools-debt

    http://washingtoninformer.com/news/2014/feb/08/report-child-poverty-us-escalating/


    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/05/us/politics/senate-passes-long-stalled-farm-bill.html

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/11/opinion/brooks-the-american-precariat.html?_r=0

    http://www.msnbc.com/all-0

    I think, the JSF, will have the same Yak-141's destiny.
    As the Yak-141 was cancelled du to dramatic economic soviet problem, caused by the collapse of the Soviet Union, I don't see, why,
    the JSF could avoid the same fate.
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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  nemrod on Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:14 pm

    F-35's saga is continuing by this time Italy's case. Rome would finally buy only 45 F-35 ?

    http://www.defensenews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2014303170015

    The reason invoked is budget cuts, however, what is the the truth behind ?
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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  nemrod on Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:07 pm


    F-35'saga continue :

    Software could delays F-35B deliveries

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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  nemrod on Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:53 pm


    US stealth fighter jet can’t evade Russian radars

    http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/04/29/360578/us-stealth-jet-cant-evade-russia-radars/


    The US’s newly developed radar-evading F-35 Joint Strike Fighter will not be able to escape Russian radars.

    “The F-35 Joint Strike Fighter... is not, in fact, stealthy in the eyes of a growing number of Russian and Chinese radars,” the Aviation Week said.

    It said the jet, which the Pentagon hopes would be stealthy, is “having all sorts of shortcomings.”

    The report said the jet is not even effective in “jamming enemy radar”, adding the US Defense Department is spending “hundreds of billions of dollars” for a “fighter that will need the help of specialized jamming aircraft.”

    It said the F-35 is even “susceptible to detection by radars operating in the VHF bands of the spectrum.”

    The report said Russian armed forces have been armed with a “highly counterstealth radar system” – unveiled at an air show near Moscow last August – that is able to “track small targets once the VHF radar has detected them.”

    The F-35 has not been equipped with “onboard jamming,” the report said.

    “Had the JSF requirements been tightened by one iota since the program started, its advocates would be blaming that for the delays and overruns,” it said.

    The new US fighter’s “jamming is mostly confined to the X-band,” the report said.

    Speculation about the US fighter comes at a time US President Barack Obama is apparently set to turn the ongoing crisis in Ukraine into a war with Russia.

    Tensions between Moscow and the West mounted after Crimea separated from Ukraine and requested to join Russia after a referendum on March 16, in which nearly 97 percent of the participants voted for rejoining Russia. Moscow subsequently accepted Crimea’s request.
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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  nemrod on Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:13 pm


    F-35'saga continue. Things turning bad.
    This time may be it is the JSF' funerals.
    http://www.migflug.com/jetflights/5th-generation-fighter-jets-too-expensive.html

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    F-35 – The biggest aviation project ever

    Post  nemrod on Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:38 pm



    http://www.migflug.com/jetflights/f-35-biggest-aviation-project-ever.html
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    Hannibal Barca
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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:00 pm

    For us it will be a tragedy if F35 canceled. I would give my kidney this not to happen.
    Continuing the program and ending up with this turd with wings it's much more annoying for the enemy than starting all over again even if they come up
    with a much less ambitious plane and even with an extra decade of delays and even if this mean a small total number of planes.
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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  Werewolf on Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:53 pm

    The US has my full support on replacing all F16,F18 and A-10's with F-35s, helps the rest of the world not getting invaded and killed.
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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  collegeboy16 on Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:05 pm

    your plane has to be really bad when your enemy is saying go for it...
    oh well, as Werewolf said, would prolly save a lot of lives in the future- would make the decision makers think one more time
    when they know their plane isnt that good.
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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  BlackArrow on Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:21 pm

    I think the F-35 will be great success just like most if not all American tactical aicraft built since the 1940s. Who has bought any MiG-29s lately?
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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  Werewolf on Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:31 pm

    BlackArrow wrote: I think the F-35 will be great success just like most if not all American tactical aicraft built since the 1940s. Who has bought any MiG-29s lately?

    Like the Starfighter?

    Germany bought around 900 of F-104 Starfighters and lost around 420, not a single was engaged by any weapon, they are just shit planes.

    After this Starfighter desaster there was even talk about banning Lockheed Martin products, which were shut up immidiatley since Germany is occupied by the US.
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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:32 pm

    BlackArrow wrote: I think the F-35 will be great success just like most if not all American tactical aicraft built since the 1940s. Who has bought any MiG-29s lately?

    India, Burma are two examples. Apparently Egypt is interested and I think Bangledesh ordered some.

    Nice attempt at trolling though.

    I can troll too! At least no Russian jet suffocates its pilots like F-22 has. BTW, anotger F-18 lost again today.
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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  BlackArrow on Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:47 pm

    God, you guys are fast...

    F-104 - safety record no worse than its contemporaries from the 1950s, probably better than the MiG-21's, who knows? I see the IAF lost another MiG-21 this week. Killed its pilot too.

    India, Burma are two examples. Apparently Egypt is interested and I think Bangledesh ordered some. wrote:

    Burma, Bangladesh? Now you are trolling. India bought the MiG-29K because they bought the Kuznetsov carrier - all part of the same deal. The Indian air force refused to buy the MiG-35, Algeria returned their SMTs.

    F-22 hasn't killed any more pilots than the Su-30MKI? how many MKIs have been lost in the IAF, 3?
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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Jun 05, 2014 10:12 pm

    BlackArrow wrote:God, you guys are fast...

    F-104 - safety record no worse than its contemporaries from the 1950s, probably better than the MiG-21's, who knows? I see the IAF lost another MiG-21 this week. Killed its pilot too.  



    Burma, Bangladesh? Now you are trolling. India bought the MiG-29K because they bought the Kuznetsov carrier - all part of the same deal. The Indian air force refused to buy the MiG-35, Algeria returned their SMTs.

    F-22 hasn't killed any more pilots than the Su-30MKI? how many MKIs have been lost in the IAF, 3?

    5Th gen is being matketed as bees nees. So far, nope. And Indian pilots and maintenance. How many Su-30'S in Russian service crashed and killed pilots?

    As well: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/bangladesh/air-force-modernization.htm

    And:

    http://en.take-off.ru/news/102/603

    Burma.

    Also, look up MiG-29UPG for India.
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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  Werewolf on Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:29 am

    BlackArrow wrote:God, you guys are fast...

    F-104 - safety record no worse than its contemporaries from the 1950s, probably better than the MiG-21's, who knows? I see the IAF lost another MiG-21 this week. Killed its pilot too.  

    Definetley not, the MiG-21 and their operators have not lost almost 50% of their MiG-21 fleet in only 23 years without enemy engagement, German pilots and maintenance are rather good considering some Arabic countries under embargos who operated MiG-21s and still Starfighter fall from the sky like no other plane ever before.

    The Starfighter has its reputation very well deserved as the Meteor, engine problems like no other plane.

    He belongs in top 3 of the biggest failure in military aviation fighter jets, while MiG-21 is among the most succesful fighters and with various upgrades still very useful for smaller budget countries, and most certainly still lethal against F-35 in a dogfight.
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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:00 am

    Now you are trolling. India bought the MiG-29K because they bought the Kuznetsov carrier - all part of the same deal. The Indian air force refused to buy the MiG-35, Algeria returned their SMTs.

    India bought the MiG-29K for all its new carriers including the Gorshkov Kiev Class carrier they bought. The Kuznetsov is not for sale.

    The Indian Air Force didn't buy the MiG-35 because they didn't want an all Russian fleet, so it failed because it was Russian.

    Algeria returned the SMTs because Sukhoi offered them Su-30s at the same price... the Russian AF accepted those SMT into service and has ordered some more while they wait for the MiG-35s.


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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  BlackArrow on Sun Jun 08, 2014 11:59 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    BlackArrow wrote:God, you guys are fast...

    F-104 - safety record no worse than its contemporaries from the 1950s, probably better than the MiG-21's, who knows? I see the IAF lost another MiG-21 this week. Killed its pilot too.  

    Definetley not, the MiG-21 and their operators have not lost almost 50% of their MiG-21 fleet in only 23 years without enemy engagement, German pilots and maintenance are rather good considering some Arabic countries under embargos who operated MiG-21s and still Starfighter fall from the sky like no other plane ever before.

    The Starfighter has its reputation very well deserved as the Meteor, engine problems like no other plane.

    He belongs in top 3 of the biggest failure in military aviation fighter jets, while MiG-21 is among the most succesful fighters and with various upgrades still very useful for smaller budget countries, and most certainly still lethal against F-35 in a dogfight.

    I don't know where you get your information from? 50% of all F-104s lost in accidents? Nonsense, I think it's about 35%. I think it' s accepted today that the Starfighter probably was no worse than it's peers from the 1950s - Certainly no worse than the MiG-21 or Su-7. Check out this website for a review of Soviet crash statistics for the MiG-21 and Su-7.

    http://vadimvswar.narod.ru/ALL_OUT/AiKOut06/Su-7B/Su-7B075.htm
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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  TR1 on Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:48 am

    Many MiG-21 operators had nothing like the crash rate the Germans had with the Starfighter.

    But in general yes, fighter operations were dangerous then.
    Though it is funny to see people desperately try to deny that any US fighter could possible have a worse crash record than a Soviet counterpart.

    Dat superiority complex Very Happy
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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  TR1 on Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:49 am

    BlackArrow wrote: I think the F-35 will be great success just like most if not all American tactical aicraft built since the 1940s. Who has bought any MiG-29s lately?

    Lol. That is a moronic comparison and you know it.

    By this standard we can say every Soviet tactical plane was a great success as well.

    Seriously, go ahead and pat yourself on the back, no one else will do it for you.
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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Mon Jun 09, 2014 2:52 am

    TR1 wrote:Many MiG-21 operators had nothing like the crash rate the Germans had with the Starfighter.

    But in general yes, fighter operations were dangerous then.
    Though it is funny to see people desperately try to deny that any US fighter could possible have a worse crash record than a Soviet counterpart.

    Dat superiority complex Very Happy

    I think the most dangerous Soviet aircraft were the iterations of VTOL aircraft, that didn't stop Lockheed Martin from buying the VTOL blueprints from Yakovlev. From Afghanistan to VTOL aircraft, seems like the US establishment likes to make the same mistakes the Soviets made lol! Embarassed 

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    US grounds entire F-35 fighter jet fleet after unexplained fire

    Post  As Sa'iqa on Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:24 am

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/04/us-grounds-entire-f-35-fighter-jet-fleet?CMP=twt_fd
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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  nemrod on Mon Jul 07, 2014 1:23 pm

    As Sa'iqa wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/04/us-grounds-entire-f-35-fighter-jet-fleet?CMP=twt_fd

    Somewhere not a bad news, seeing the the F-35's saga, I wonder wether I won't be a fan of the F-35.

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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  nemrod on Tue Aug 26, 2014 12:55 pm



    http://www.businessinsider.com/this-map-explains-the-f-35-fiasco-2014-8


    The Pentagon has stuck with the F-35 Lightning Joint Strike Fighter program despite dozens of technical problems and delays, strategic concerns, and massive cost overruns that have nearly doubled the initial cost estimate, raising the cost of building the planes to around $400 billion with a lifetime cost of up to $1.5 trillion.

    One reason why the project has become such a boondoggle is that many states and countries are significantly invested in the plane, relying on its production for income and jobs.

    Every U.S. state but Alaska, Hawaii, Nebraska, and Wyoming has economic ties to the F-35, with 18 states counting on the project for $100 million or more in economic activity, according to primary contractor Lockheed Martin. All told, the project is supposedly responsible for 32,500 jobs in the U.S. Globally, another nine countries have major ties to the F-35.

    One way or another, America's multirole fifth-generation fighter is coming — though it was most recently delayed to September 2017.

    Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/this-map-explains-the-f-35-fiasco-2014-8#ixzz3BUick6xr



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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  nemrod on Tue Aug 26, 2014 1:07 pm


    I could not leave you without this other nugget:
    http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/03/06/canadas-multi-billion-dollar-f-35s-are-irrelevant-without-the-u-s-only-f-22-as-support-american-general-says/

    And now, what about if the SU-35, and Mig-35 could down F-22 -and they can-? lol! lol! lol! lol! lol!

    It proves another time that the F-35 it is a scam, US want to tie their allies to them. US can access to every sensible informations, meanwhile the other allies could not. Indeed, they could not access -except Israel- to most strategic informations inside the F-35. They could not operate it without US.
    I think, I am going to be more and more enthousiast about this fighter : lol! lol! lol! lol! lol!





    http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/03/06/canadas-multi-billion-dollar-f-35s-are-irrelevant-without-the-u-s-only-f-22-as-support-american-general-says/

    Canada’s multi-billion dollar F-35s ‘irrelevant’ without U.S.-only F-22 as support, American general says

    David Pugliese, Ottawa Citizen, Postmedia News | March 6, 2014 | Last Updated: Mar 6 5:35 PM ET
    More from Postmedia News
    his undated handout image obtained on April 22, 2009 courtesy of the Joint Strike Fighter program site, shows the F-35 JSF.
    AFP PHOTO / JSF-Hand-Outhis undated handout image obtained on April 22, 2009 courtesy of the Joint Strike Fighter program site, shows the F-35 JSF.


    New questions are being raised about whether the F-35 stealth fighter is the right aircraft for Canada after a U.S. general acknowledged the jet is limited in what it can do and needs to be accompanied on its missions by another multi-million-dollar aircraft.

    The issue for Canada and other potential F-35 buyers is that the other aircraft referred to by the general – the F-22 – isn’t available for foreign sales because of its sophisticated technology.

    Gen. Michael Hostage, head of air combat command in the U.S., said the F-35 is critical for the future of that country’s air force. But in an interview with the Air Force Times, published in February, Hostage pointed out the F-35 needs to work hand-in-hand with the F-22.

    “The F-35 is not built as an air superiority platform,” Hostage said. “It needs the F-22.”
    What is the F-22?

    The F-22 Raptor is a single-seat fighter jet made by Lockheed Martin, which also makes the F-35.
    Lockheed Martin calls its F-22 the world’s most advanced fighter. The U.S. has banned foreign sales of the Raptor.
    The F-22 is the only fighter capable of simultaneously conducting air-to-air and air-to-ground combat missions with near impunity, according to Lockheed.
    The final F-22 Raptor was delivered to the U.S. Air Force in May 2012. It is no longer in production.

    The U.S. Air Force is upgrading the F-22, which officers see as essential. Without the upgraded F-22s, “the F-35 fleet frankly will be irrelevant,” Hostage said.

    The comments have sparked heated debate in aerospace and defence circles, and analyst Martin Shadwick says Hostage’s statements are bound to raise eyebrows in Canada. “I’m sure you won’t see the general’s comments in any F-35 marketing literature,” said Shadwick, a York University professor. “Canada needs a multi-role fighter and even if the F-22 were available we couldn’t afford another aircraft to fly top cover for the F-35s.”

    Senior Royal Canadian Air Force officers have acknowledged they are keen to see the F-35 in Canada.

    But in 2012, the Conservative government put a temporary halt to its purchase of the F-35 and appointed a group of senior officials to examine options for the replacement of the country’s CF-18 fighter jets.

    That process is still under way. Public Works and Government Services can’t say when it will be completed.
    Related

    Richard Shimooka: Stick with the F-35
    John Ivison: Report fires at aimless Canadian military ruled by balance sheets not foreign policy
    Lockheed Martin plans 4,000 job cuts as U.S. spending declines

    Hostage’s comments echo earlier concerns by critics that the F-35 is mainly designed to strike at ground targets and is not well suited for aerial combat and interceptions.

    But Mike Barton, a spokesman for Lockheed Martin Canada, said the F-35 meets all Canada’s needs. The general’s comments are a reflection of how the U.S. Air Force operates and are not relevant to Canada, he added.

    Barton said Lockheed Martin has not seen any adverse reaction to Hostage’s comments from the Canadian government or any other nation interested in purchasing the F-35. “We’ve heard nothing about it impacting foreign interest,” Barton said.

    The F-35 stealth fighter had become a major political headache for the Conservative government, which made it a lynchpin of their defence policy.

    The controversy surrounding the F-35 purchase has centred on technical and cost issues, as well as the acquisition process. The Department of National Defence originally claimed the project would cost around $14.7 billion but then-Parliamentary Budget Officer Kevin Page put that price tag at around $29 billion.

    Auditor General Michael Ferguson also issued a report concluding that DND officials withheld key information from Parliament about the jet purchase, underestimated costs, and didn’t follow proper procurement rules.

    Still, the F-35 has had strong support in government. Prime Minister Stephen Harper has labelled the jet a good deal for Canada.

    dpugliese@ottawacitizen.com

    Twitter.com/davidpugliese



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