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    F-35 Development and News Thread:

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    Airbornewolf
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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  Airbornewolf on Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:23 pm

    the F-35 will not be cancelled. that said, its just downright tragic to even describe the crap we had with it. its a great design on paper but in a real war its useless because of its technological complexity, support requirements and it cant take off vertically unless with minimum weapon load.

    the west has somehow got an addiction for high-tech toys instead of bringing something up really meant for war. the F-35 is a good example of that techno-horny industry. i really dont see in a war some Lockheed martin nerd with a computer show up to go fix that software error with the F-35 weapon system. witch in fact they suffer from constantly together with avionic errors.

    *F-35 attempting to fire on incoming fighter aircraft-weapon launch failure*
    pilot: "the hell is is this?".
    Nerd on radio: "i see your problem, you do not have patch 1.9845 installed. please return to the airfield for an update patch".


    not to mention the costs of fielding one F-35. for every F-35 Russia probably fields 4 modernized SU-27's or equivalent that will take it out.




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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  Viktor on Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:44 pm

    The jet that ate the Pentagon


    GarryB
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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  GarryB on Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:26 am

    The core problem with the F-35 is that it is trying to be too many different aircraft at one time.

    The fact that they wanted a 5th gen F-16 to fly with the 5th gen F-15 (ie the F-22) makes a lot of sense, but trying to make the 5th gen F-16 (F-35) perform even better than the F-22 is at the primary core of their mistake.

    The other obvious error is trying to make a 5th gen F-16 into an AV-8 as well.

    What they should have done was split it into two separate but related programs where one is a light F-16 5th gen that will have good but not spectacular performance and will have full fighter and ground attack capability. They then should have redesigned the basic aircraft into a VSTOL aircraft to replace the Marines Harrier and anyone elses Harrier on land and on small aircraft carriers.

    Their current force structure has air to air only F-15C, air to ground F-15E, and air to air and air to ground medium F-16.

    In the near future they could have had the F-22 as the F-15C, whose job is to clear the skies of enemy air power and keep them down, while the F-35 is the numbers aircraft that can pound the enemy air defences to dust and start hunting down ground forces.

    By making the F-35 design VSTOL capable they got a fat overweight compromised design that is not ideal for simple light stealthy fighter, nor is it ideal as a VSTOL aircraft for the tiny percentage of users that even wanted that feature...

    For the foreign users the problem is compounded.

    The British had an awesome light strike aircraft called the Buccaneer... it wasn't super fast, it wasn't super manouverable, but it could carry two nuclear bombs at low level faster and further than the F-16 of the time could. It could also operate from land and from aircraft carriers.

    The F-35 should have been a 5th gen Buccaneer and it would have been a much better aircraft.


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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  GarryB on Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:39 am

    Hahahahaha... lobby groups, rotating door policies... fancy terms for corruption... but when you call murder a purge it suddenly stops being murder...


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    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    Hannibal Barca
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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:03 am

    Not really. Much worse. They tried to replace f16, f18, A10 and Harrier simultaneously! And this was only the beginning of their shortages.
    They also got this obsession with stealth and with the idea of a platform to carry weapons instead of a fighting machine concept.
    They also stuck with a one engine concept which is ridiculous because despite this they planned a program to be on purpose over cost
    to involve all states and almost all of their puppets.
    All this at the time that USA suffered the greatest industrial decline in human history. From 1995 to 2005 USA lost pretty much about 50%
    of it's industrial capabilities. F35 is a mega fail, but is far from being the only one. After B2 every single mega project of US army ended in total disaster.
    They failed with Asprey's, helicopters, two fifth generation fighters, a whole family of missiles, zumwalt frigates, postponed ballistic submarines and many more.
    It is unique in human history. In the early 90s Russia had the ability but no money, with USA is different. They seem that they broke the industrial sequence.

    nemrod
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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  nemrod on Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:22 pm

    Thx to all for these precious informations.

    Nevertheless, I ignored this shit -F-35- was in fact inspired from the Yak 141.
    What a pity, Yeltsin did to Russia. Again I'am amazed, even for their high tech hardwares US rely on Russia.



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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  TR1 on Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:12 pm

    He didn't do anything. The F-35 borrowed some basic ideas from the Yak, and practically nothing more.

    The F-35 would have existed without Yak-141, and Russia didn't really lose anything.

    collegeboy16
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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  collegeboy16 on Sat Feb 15, 2014 9:54 am

    look on the bright side... if it werent for them borrowing some elements of yak-141 design F-35B wouldnt be possible and more
    importantly serve as base for all the other F-35 models. The fat clumsy F-35 design that we all love to hate would have been
    two wholely difeerent aircraft: current design VTOL F-35 and a sleeker more agile stealth F-16- which could pose a thrreat.

    GarryB
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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  GarryB on Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:03 am

    Lockheed Martin bought the technology of the seals/joints of the engine in the parts that turn while the engine is in full afterburner.

    They probably could have developed something, but it was quicker and cheaper to buy Soviet expertise which was available at the time.

    If they couldn't perfect a vectored thrust nozzle to take 20+ tons of thrust they might have gone with a conventional take off model only and ignored the Marine requirement for VSTOL... the F-35 probably would have been a much better aircraft.


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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:48 am

    GarryB wrote:Lockheed Martin bought the technology of the seals/joints of the engine in the parts that turn while the engine is in full afterburner.

    They probably could have developed something, but it was quicker and cheaper to buy Soviet expertise which was available at the time.

    If they couldn't perfect a vectored thrust nozzle to take 20+ tons of thrust they might have gone with a conventional take off model only and ignored the Marine requirement for VSTOL... the F-35 probably would have been a much better aircraft.

    No wonder there were so many Soviet/Russian chess champions/grand masters, always thinking several steps ahead, and now they successfully sabotaged the U.S. Air Force by......*Drum Roll*......"STEALTH"!!!

    collegeboy16
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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  collegeboy16 on Sun Feb 16, 2014 6:45 am

    Yes, i think Mig should develop the F-35-would-have-been. It would be export only- a joint venture with the marginalized F-35 customers and then some like indonesia, turkey, japan, sk. Mig would make the airframe then adapt it to the needs of its partners. Also have locally produced and tech sharing agreements since this is an export only stealth plane. This should keep Mig busy now that Sukhoi will focus on the Pak-Fa and a UCAV Pak-Fa.

    KomissarBojanchev
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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:19 am

    Why don't they just build the yak-43 as an export competitor to the F-35? That aircraft design just looks so cool.

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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  TR1 on Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:30 am

    Because that would economically be a terrible idea.


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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  Werewolf on Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:54 am

    It would be a catastroph on economics if you would built an Yak-43 to compete with an already shitty competitor that has already the same self produced hyped image like Apple hardware.
    Bad hardware but put an apple logo on it and hipsters going crazy about junk and you can demand more money for that nonsense.

    If you can't establishe a cult of zombies around a product that is unnecassary you should stay away from such attempts.

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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  collegeboy16 on Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:08 am

    that is why you dont build another F-35B to compete with F-35B. the marines and the brits are the only ones who loved the F-35B anyway, if the others had their way they would have wanted a dedicated airframe. This is where Mig could step in with their LMFS program. Heck the chicoms too want a share of the light stealth fighter pie and they dont even have an engine for the J-20  Twisted Evil . Same for the Japanese and the Koreans, if the LMFS can compete with their native designs they maybe swayed to buy LMFS instead.

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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  GarryB on Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:09 am

    I strongly suspect the light 5th gen fighter will be stealthy but also cheaper and as such be very appealing on the international market.

    However I strongly suspect that current F-35 operators will not make such a political statement as to change from a US fighter to a Russian one... no matter how much it costs them.

    The primary benefit of a VSTOL aircraft is to be able to get away with smaller cheaper carriers, but the cost in performance means those smaller carriers are rather less effective than slightly larger fixed wing carriers.

    To be honest I think it would be more cost effective to build slightly larger carriers with EM cats that allow heavier AWACS aircraft to operate and the light 5th gen fighter too... far better bang for only slightly more buck. ...as cool as the Yak-43 was there is little benefit to reviving it.  cry 


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    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    collegeboy16
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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  collegeboy16 on Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:18 am

    GarryB wrote:I strongly suspect the light 5th gen fighter will be stealthy but also cheaper and as such be very appealing on the international market.

    However I strongly suspect that current F-35 operators will not make such a political statement as to change from a US fighter to a Russian one... no matter how much it costs them.
     
    Simples really, just take a page from the west book of marketing- make a consortium. The Italians have no problems marketing the m346 trainer aircraft and the euros have their own avionics and weapons plus possibly engines.

    nemrod
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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  nemrod on Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:55 pm

    collegeboy16 wrote:
    Simples really, just take a page from the west book of marketing- make a consortium. The Italians have no problems marketing the m346 trainer aircraft and the euros have their own avionics and weapons plus possibly engines.

    Sincerly, seeing these huge US problems :

    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2014-02-05/opinion/ct-chicago-debt-edit-0205-20140205_1_bond-sales-chicago-public-schools-debt

    http://washingtoninformer.com/news/2014/feb/08/report-child-poverty-us-escalating/


    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/05/us/politics/senate-passes-long-stalled-farm-bill.html

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/11/opinion/brooks-the-american-precariat.html?_r=0

    http://www.msnbc.com/all-0

    I think, the JSF, will have the same Yak-141's destiny.
    As the Yak-141 was cancelled du to dramatic economic soviet problem, caused by the collapse of the Soviet Union, I don't see, why,
    the JSF could avoid the same fate.

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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  nemrod on Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:14 pm

    F-35's saga is continuing by this time Italy's case. Rome would finally buy only 45 F-35 ?

    http://www.defensenews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2014303170015

    The reason invoked is budget cuts, however, what is the the truth behind ?

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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  nemrod on Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:07 pm


    F-35'saga continue :

    Software could delays F-35B deliveries


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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  nemrod on Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:53 pm


    US stealth fighter jet can’t evade Russian radars

    http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/04/29/360578/us-stealth-jet-cant-evade-russia-radars/


    The US’s newly developed radar-evading F-35 Joint Strike Fighter will not be able to escape Russian radars.

    “The F-35 Joint Strike Fighter... is not, in fact, stealthy in the eyes of a growing number of Russian and Chinese radars,” the Aviation Week said.

    It said the jet, which the Pentagon hopes would be stealthy, is “having all sorts of shortcomings.”

    The report said the jet is not even effective in “jamming enemy radar”, adding the US Defense Department is spending “hundreds of billions of dollars” for a “fighter that will need the help of specialized jamming aircraft.”

    It said the F-35 is even “susceptible to detection by radars operating in the VHF bands of the spectrum.”

    The report said Russian armed forces have been armed with a “highly counterstealth radar system” – unveiled at an air show near Moscow last August – that is able to “track small targets once the VHF radar has detected them.”

    The F-35 has not been equipped with “onboard jamming,” the report said.

    “Had the JSF requirements been tightened by one iota since the program started, its advocates would be blaming that for the delays and overruns,” it said.

    The new US fighter’s “jamming is mostly confined to the X-band,” the report said.

    Speculation about the US fighter comes at a time US President Barack Obama is apparently set to turn the ongoing crisis in Ukraine into a war with Russia.

    Tensions between Moscow and the West mounted after Crimea separated from Ukraine and requested to join Russia after a referendum on March 16, in which nearly 97 percent of the participants voted for rejoining Russia. Moscow subsequently accepted Crimea’s request.

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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  nemrod on Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:13 pm


    F-35'saga continue. Things turning bad.
    This time may be it is the JSF' funerals.
    http://www.migflug.com/jetflights/5th-generation-fighter-jets-too-expensive.html


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    F-35 – The biggest aviation project ever

    Post  nemrod on Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:38 pm



    http://www.migflug.com/jetflights/f-35-biggest-aviation-project-ever.html

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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:00 pm

    For us it will be a tragedy if F35 canceled. I would give my kidney this not to happen.
    Continuing the program and ending up with this turd with wings it's much more annoying for the enemy than starting all over again even if they come up
    with a much less ambitious plane and even with an extra decade of delays and even if this mean a small total number of planes.

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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  Werewolf on Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:53 pm

    The US has my full support on replacing all F16,F18 and A-10's with F-35s, helps the rest of the world not getting invaded and killed.

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