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    F-35 Development and News Thread:

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    GarryB
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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  GarryB on Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:15 am

    The design was basically compromised for VSTOL, which reduces the performance of all the non VSTOL versions...

    It should be a 5th gen light stealthy F-16. It has ended up more like the AV-8 II... a more limited aircraft.... not a bad one... just not as good as it could be.


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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  Kyo on Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:04 pm

    F-35 blueprints hacked by China: Snowden

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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  nemrod on Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:01 pm

    Kyo wrote:F-35 blueprints hacked by China: Snowden

    The usual argument. If chineses do something comparable to US, it is because of ...they copy it. How little yellows could do that other than copy the civilization ?
    In fact american establishment is fondamentaly rascist, arrogant, and true uglies. Those who copy the most are americans, those who steal the most are americans, the only one who loot other countries are US. But, when they do that, they are right, because they do only in the goal to save the democraty, and human rights, women rights.
    If you tell me the J-15, J-16 are copies of SU-27, indeed, it is true. If you said me the J-10 is a copy of the Mig-29, yes, it is somewhat a version of copy.
    About the F-35 and the F-22, where is the problem, the JSF is a momunental setback in the aircrafts' history, and the F-22 is far to be US staff  expected. Chineses, russians managed to avoid tragic US errors. It seems it is a successfully road, american's establishement again is jealous.
    When I was younger, I grew up with the idea that soviets lacked of technologies, all their technologies are a mere ironsmith. Soviet could not create, but could only steal US technologies. This is the sad stupidies what we were taught during 50's to 80's. Nevertheless, decades after, thanks to Internet, near all US hardware were crushed during most of the conflicts by the so-called soviet-ironsmith. Furthermore, US hardwares were often outclassed by soviet technologies. Nevertheleess, we had to believe those who control the media, those who brought you informations.
    And now, we could easily expect that the F-35, as their famous F-22 will be surely the next sitting duck of the J-11, j-15, j-16, j-20, j-31. As there were the case for  the Phantom II, and F-105, against Mig-17, Mig-19, Mig-21.

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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  higurashihougi on Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:26 pm

    In fact the U.S. has copied many things.

    F-15 is a copy of MiG-25, but with increased ground attack capability and decreased air-to-air combat.

    F-16 is a copy of Ye-8, but with no canard, simplified air inhale, and fly-by-wire techs. It went to Israel and became Lavi, then Lavi went to China and became J-10. Due to military sanction, China had to bought avionics devices and others from Russia, the country who created the original Ye-8.

    And in an ironic twist of history, Ye-8 departed from Russia and went back to Russia to be improved.

    EU Typhoon is a more modern and complicated copy of Ye-8, too.

    For Russia, AK-47's bolt of Russia is copied from M1 Garand. However, AK bolt lugs are very big compared to M1 Garand, so that the AK bolt can withstand a much better force.

    The problem here is we have to move upward based on the shoulder of our predecessors. So copying is not really a bad thing. The things here is how we improve and modify it.

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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  Kyo on Mon Jan 19, 2015 7:33 pm

    China dismisses allegations of F-35 data theft

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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  Werewolf on Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:17 pm

    Kyo wrote:China dismisses allegations of F-35 data theft

    Funny, americunts accusing china of theft of F-35 technology where the US stole YAK-141 engine technology.

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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  VladimirSahin on Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:40 am

    Werewolf wrote:
    Kyo wrote:China dismisses allegations of F-35 data theft

    Funny, americunts accusing china of theft of F-35 technology where the US stole YAK-141 engine technology.

    Honestly I am glad to have people like you, Once I see a comment like that it really refreshes my mind from the ignorant posts I see all around the internet...

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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  Manov on Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:51 am

    Regarding the picture above (loadout), what about range? with that load it must have a very near airbase or some tankers, Dont like it a single bit. Stealth doing CAS...it just meh. Or you use it like a F-117 or is just a hugely expensive F-16 cheers
    But i guess everyone knows that by now

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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:52 am

    Werewolf wrote:
    Kyo wrote:China dismisses allegations of F-35 data theft

    Funny, americunts accusing china of theft of F-35 technology where the US stole YAK-141 engine technology.

    The damning fact that the Pro-NATO trolls on F-16 and MP.net forums can wrap their peanut sized brains around... lol1 russia

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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  TR1 on Tue Jan 20, 2015 4:13 am

    Werewolf wrote:
    Kyo wrote:China dismisses allegations of F-35 data theft

    Funny, americunts accusing china of theft of F-35 technology where the US stole YAK-141 engine technology.

    How did it steal it?

    Working together=/= stealing.

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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  TR1 on Tue Jan 20, 2015 4:14 am

    Werewolf wrote:
    Kyo wrote:China dismisses allegations of F-35 data theft

    Funny, americunts accusing china of theft of F-35 technology where the US stole YAK-141 engine technology.

    How did it steal it?

    Working together=/= stealing.

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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:31 am

    Well it is known that the US bought technology regarding vectored thrust on a large powerful engine for the F-35 because no western company had experience with vectored thrust nozzles that could handle a powerful engine in full AB.

    All through the cold war however the US was trying as desperately to steal Soviet technology as the Soviets were to steal US technology.

    In fact the US continues to use these same methods to spy on Russian and ex Soviet and Chinese and also from Americas allies.

    BTW just because the Chinese stole information about the F-35 it doesn't mean they will make one... they might just use the information to find weaknesses their own designs can exploit.


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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  Werewolf on Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:32 pm

    TR1 wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    Kyo wrote:China dismisses allegations of F-35 data theft

    Funny, americunts accusing china of theft of F-35 technology where the US stole YAK-141 engine technology.

    How did it steal it?

    Working together=/= stealing.

    Working together during the 90's with YAK company untill the point where US got all information and technology needed to do it themselfs and than afterwards dropping YAK from the JSF engine programm is stealing.

    If i use your work to the point it benefits me and drop you later that you can't benefit later is nothing else but stealing of technology.

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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  TR1 on Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:33 pm

    Yak was not forced to share any data with LM.

    That is not what stealing is.

    Plus, they got some basic engine concepts from Yak, not an entire system. Yak's role in the F-35s propulsion is grossly overstated by some.

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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  OminousSpudd on Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:53 pm

    TR1 wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    Kyo wrote:China dismisses allegations of F-35 data theft

    Funny, americunts accusing china of theft of F-35 technology where the US stole YAK-141 engine technology.

    How did it steal it?

    Working together=/= stealing.

    No, but never giving a hint of credit in any way or form to prior achievements is still a low blow, and is typical of American propaganda (never outright lie, just withhold the truth). The only grudging respect I've heard Lockheed give was directed towards the Harrier. Outside of allied funding, they're extremely slow to talk about other country's participation, even when it comes to bedmates.

    Not that any country in its right mind should want association with this farce of a project, let alone Russia.

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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  Werewolf on Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:04 am

    Not that any country in its right mind should want association with this farce of a project, let alone Russia.

    Well you hit the nail with a sledgehammer.

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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  higurashihougi on Wed Jan 21, 2015 3:43 am

    TR1 wrote:Yak was not forced to share any data with LM.

    That is not what stealing is.

    Plus, they got some basic engine concepts from Yak, not an entire system. Yak's role in the F-35s propulsion is grossly overstated by some.

    I do not really care whether they steal it or copy it or mimic it.

    In order to create a weapon to defend ourselves, we have to get the info from whatever sources we can. For the sake of building our fangs and claws we have to do it.

    That's why spy and espionage exist. To copy and mimics.

    The points here is, F-35 is a damn failure. Too expensive, damn sluggish, and NOT EFFECTIVE stealth cloak.

    Even the crafts which are designed to be truly stealth like F-117 and RQ-170 could not escape the fangs of enemy defense system, let alone F-35 which only have stealth capabilities, not truly stealth aircraft.

    Russian ground radar is strong enough to use long wavelength radar to strip off the stealth cloak, and Russian T-50 has a 10-metre L-band radar.

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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:27 am

    Funny... the US has the largest most powerful spy network the world has ever seen... even George Orwell would be impressed, yet they accuse China of stealing their secrets...

    Hahahahaaha... Balls like a race horse.... pirat


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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  George1 on Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:40 am

    F-35 tests demonstrate Interoperability, Close Air Support

    Lockheed Martin and the F-35 Joint Program Office (JPO) are conducting extensive testing toward the program's main milestone - declaring Marine Fighter Attack Squadron 121 (VFMA-121) at Marine Corps Air Station (MCAS) Yuma - the first Marine Corps F-35 unit 'operational ready' by the end of July 2015. Although only the USMC unit flying F-35B is due for this clearance, some of the testings are done on the Air Force's F-35A and Navy F-35Cs, since many of elements of the different variants, particularly the software versions - are identical. This procedure was recently highlighted by the Pentagon’s Director of Operational Test & Evaluation (DOT&E) in his annual report.
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    Lockheed Martin and the F-35 Joint Program Office (JPO) are conducting extensive testing toward the program’s main milestone – declaring Marine Fighter Attack Squadron 121 (VMFA-121) at Marine Corps Air Station (MCAS) Yuma – the first Marine Corps F-35 unit ‘operational ready’ by the end of July 2015. Part of the tests are demonstrating how the ‘Lightning II’ can communicate with other aircraft, including coalition fighters, as well as with ground forces, using Link 16 and combat networks using legacy SINCGARS radios.

    The effort is shared by elements training, testing and supporting the aircraft and its equipment, with the Marine Corps, Air Force and navy. Although only the USMC unit flying F-35B is due for this clearance, some of the testings are done on the Air Force’s F-35A and Navy F-35Cs, since many of elements of the different variants, particularly the software versions – are identical.

    This procedure was recently highlighted by the Pentagon’s Director of Operational Test & Evaluation (DOT&E) in his annual report. “Rather than carrying out a full Operational Utility Evaluation (OUE), JPO is conducting ‘limited assessments’ of Block 2B capability, using F-35A operational test aircraft at Edwards AFB, California. Adhering to OUE testing with F-35B with Block 2B capability would have delayed the start of the evaluation into late 2016. This in turn threatened to delay the development of Block 3F software.

    Developmental testing of the Block 2B software is expected to be complete in february 2015, earlier than the DOT&E predicted in its 2013 report (May to November 2015). Moreover, the consolidation of test points from earlier blocks into 2B testing has accelerated the process, eliminating 840 test points, equivalent to four months of testing.

    The review highlight concern about the ability of the aircraft to identify hostile radars, creating ‘significant operational risk to fielded unit’ the report stated that the necessary software updates will not be available until November 2015. Other concerns are with the aircraft unique ‘Distributed Aperture System’ (DAS), providing the pilot a panoramic view of the aircraft surroundings and automatic threat warning and identification. The report said DAS still “exhibit high false-alarm rates and false target tracks, and poor stability performance, even in later versions of software.”

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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  George1 on Sat Jan 31, 2015 9:47 am

    Pentagon Claims F-35 Extreme Weather Testing Proving Aircraft’s Capability

    Pentagon claims that the advanced next generation F-35 fighter jet plane has nearly completed climatic testing that subjects the aircraft to extreme temperatures and weather conditions.

    WASHINGTON, January 31 (Sputnik) — The advanced next generation F-35 fighter jet has nearly completed climatic testing that subjects the aircraft to extreme temperatures and weather conditions, Pentagon’s F-35 Lighting II program announced Friday.

    “An F-35 Lightning II has endured extreme weather temperatures to certify the fleet to deploy to any corner of the world,” the program said in a statement.

    Testing carried out on the F-35B version of the fighter plane, which has short take off and vertical landing capability, is assessing the plane’s performance in extreme temperatures and weather conditions, including freezing rain, snow, wind and humidity, the statement said.

    The six month testing program is in its fourth month at an indoor climatic laboratory at Eglin Air Force Base in the US state of Florida.

    Billie Flynn, an F-35 test pilot, said in the statement the fighter plane is meeting expectations.

    "It has flown in more than 100 degree heat while also flying in bitter subzero temperatures. In its final days of testing, it will fly through ice and other conditions such as driving rain with hurricane force winds. We are learning more and more about the aircraft every day," Flynn said.

    The F-35 is a single-seat, single-engine strike fighter with stealth technology. The nearly $400 billion F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Program is largely funded by the United States. The United States plans to buy 2,443 F-35s while the 10 allied countries will purchase 721 fighters, according to the plane’s producer Lockheed Martin.

    The F-35’s development has been beset by delays, cost overruns and technical problems. Critics of the program argue the program is unnecessary and a waste of money.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20150131/1017577839.html#ixzz3QO34r2J0

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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  George1 on Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:11 pm

    Proposed US Defense Budget Includes $10.6Bln for F-35 Joint Strike Fighters

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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  higurashihougi on Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:08 pm

    http://news.usni.org/2015/02/04/cno-greenert-navys-next-fighter-might-not-need-stealth-high-speed

    CNO Greenert: Navy’s Next Fighter Might Not Need Stealth, High Speed

    Cool Cool Cool

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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  ahmedfire on Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:07 pm

    2014 report

    The F-35 O&S Cost Cover-up
    (Source: Defense-Aerospace.com; published Feb. 04, 2014)


    By guest contributor Don Bacon
    The F-35 selected acquisition report (SAR) reported last Spring that there had been no progress in reducing its staggering $1 trillion, 50-year life-cycle cost. Then in June 2013 it was reported that "the company and the U.S. military are taking aim at a more vexing problem: the cost of flying and maintaining the new warplane." Not only was the total cost stratospheric but the cost per flying hour was much higher than the legacy fleet at $31,922.

    What could be done to cut high operations and sustainment (O&S) costs? International customers were being scared away by high production costs, and particularly by high operating cost.

    The F-35 program office had the answer. Simply announce that the costs are lower! Why not? The result:

    Pentagon Cuts F-35 Operating Estimate Below $1 Trillion
    WASHINGTON (Reuters), Aug 21, 2013 - "The U.S. government has slashed its estimate for the long-term operating costs of Lockheed Martin Corp F-35 fighter jets by more than 20 percent to under $1 trillion, according to a senior defense official, a move that could boost international support for the program."

    That arbitrary announcement out of the F-35 program office that operating cost had dropped from $1.1 trillion to $857 million didn't fly very high. (See related story—Ed). On September 6 the Pentagon acquisition chief Frank Kendall announced that there would be a review of F-35 operating costs. Kendall indicated that the program office's estimate might have been overly optimistic.

    In fact the GAO has reported that F-35 operating and support costs (O&S) are currently projected to be 60 percent higher than those of the existing aircraft it will replace.

    “We’re … looking at that number,” Kendall said. “The official number is still the one we put up in the SAR [selected acquisition report]. We’re going to do a review of F-35 this fall. We’ll get another estimate out of CAPE [Cost Assessment and Program Evaluation] for that and we’ll probably make some adjustments.

    On October 6, 2013 Kyra Hawn, spokeswoman for the Pentagon’s F-35 program office, said a high-level Defense Acquisition Board meeting was expected to proceed on Monday despite the partial government shutdown. The meeting has already been postponed several times.

    Well that CAPE meeting came and went, with no news on F-35 operating cost. The cost data must have been bad and so it had to be covered up, just like other cost data (production cost, etc.) on the F-35. We did get some PR fluff out of the meeting, though. “While risks remain, progress on the F-35 program at this point has been adequate to support a decision to budget for increased rates,” Frank Kendall, under-secretary for acquisition, said in a decision memo.

    If it was good cost news supporting an increase in production rates, then why didn't Kendall release the data? Apparently the opposite was true, the data was bad. And now we have the data, in the FY2013 F-35 test report, and it isn't pretty.

    FY13 DOT&E Report
    -- Mean Flight Hours Between Critical Failure (MFHBCF)
    variant--threshold/observed
    F-35A--20/4.5
    F-35B--12/3.0
    F-35C--14/2.7

    -- Mean Corrective Maintenance Time for Critical Failure (MCMTCF)
    variant--threshold/observed/FY12 Report
    F-35A--4.0/12.1/9.3
    F-35B--4.5/15.5/8.0
    F-35C--4.0/9.6/6.6

    So you fly the F-35A for 4.5 hours, get a critical failure, and then it takes 12.1 hours to fix it, or nearly three hours longer than it took last year. (That's hours, not manhours; Eglin AFB has seventeen mechanics per F-35.)

    Similarly with the F-35B -- fly it for 3 hours, critical failure, then corrective maintenance takes 15.5 hours (7.5 hours more than last year).

    The F-35C will fly for only 2.7 hours before 9.6 hours for corrective maintenance time. (Only one engine, too, out over the deep blue water.)

    If anybody thinks the acquisition cost is high, and it is, it will be totally eclipsed by the operating cost. An independent audit by KPMG has estimated the cost of buying and operating the F-35 warplanes at $600-million per jet, two-thirds of that operating cost.

    Captain Overstreet of the F-35 program office warned in November that while development costs are high for the F-35, they will be “dwarfed” by the sustainability costs. Back in May 2011 Defense Undersecretary for Acquisition Ashton Carter described current projected costs for the F-35 as “unacceptable.”

    All of this reality runs against what the early F-35 promises were.

    -- From the 1997 doc -- "The Affordable Solution - JSF":
    Tactical Aircraft Affordability Objective 1997: R&D 6%, Production 54%, total dev & prod 60%, O&S 40%.

    -- The actual 2014 test data is way different:
    dev & prod -- $397B = 26%, O&S -- $1,100B = 74%, total -- $1,497

    So the F-35 has gone from an initial-operating cost ratio of 60-40 to 26-74, and that's with much higher production costs. Nobody can afford that, especially foreign customers -- which is why it's been covered up.

    link

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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  Kyo on Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:47 pm

    New Setback: F-35s Won’t Be Able to Conduct Close-Air-Support Until 2020

    The Department of Defense’s much maligned F-35 Joint Strike Fighter ran into yet another setback Tuesday when it was announced that the aircraft will not reach full close-air-support potential until 2022.
    Unlike previous precision-guided air-dropped weapons, the Small Diameter Bomb II (SDB II) has the ability to track and hit moving targets from up to 40 miles. It will enter service in 2017.

    The F-35 however, will not have the software package required to operate the bomb until 2022.

    The proposed $585 billion Defense Department budget includes $10.6 billion in funding for the procurement of 57 F-35 Joint Strike Fighter aircraft

    The delay will reduce the F-35’s ability to provide close-air support to ground troops, and raises questions about the aircraft’s ability to adequately replace the A-10 Warthog if Congress allows the Air Force to retire it.

    Air Force leaders want to retire the A-10 by February 2019 so it can transfer the resources supporting the aircraft to the development of the F-35, which will be one of many aircraft that will backfill the A-10.

    The SDB II will not even fit onto the F-35B – the Marine Corps variant – without modifications to the aircraft’s weapons bay. But the Pentagon is in no rush to make those changes, because the weapon still will not work until the correct software package is installed.

    “When we get to the (software upgrade) of the F-35s those are going to be great CAS (close air support) platforms – when we get there. So we’ve got to continue to move down that with respect to the systems,” Air Force Gen. Herbert “Hawk” Carlisle, Commander of Air Combat Command, told reporters on March 6.

    The SDB II uses a guidance system known as a “tri-mode” seeker, which can direct the weapon using millimeter wave radar, uncooled imaging infrared guidance and semi-active laser technology.

    “Really, in the close-in CAS fight, and the most challenging being danger close where you have adversaries and friendlies in very close proximity – we have to be able to support the ground component at that point. We need the ability to deliver weapons rapidly. We need the high magazine, we need precision and we need to be able to control the yield,” Carlisle said.

    Part of the Joint Strike Fighter program’s developmental strategy includes a series of incremental software drops, each of which adds new capability. The drop that will make the F-35 capable of operating the SBD II is not scheduled to take place until 2022.

    The Marine Corps’ F-35B is slated to reach operational status following a software drop later this year. The Air Force plans to reach operational status with its F-35A in 2016 using the next software update.

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    Re: F-35 Development and News Thread:

    Post  higurashihougi on Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:55 am

    http://breakingdefense.com/2015/03/threat-data-biggest-worry-for-f-35as-ioc-but-it-will-be-on-time/

    PENTAGON: The F-35‘s highly sensitive sensors suffer a basic problem right now: They often aren’t sure what they are detecting. That results in a high rate of false alarms. The key to fixing this lies in building highly complex data files — what we can colloquially call the threat library — and integrating them with the Joint Strike Fighter‘s software.

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