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    Tu-22M3: News

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    GarryB
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    Re: Tu-22M3: News

    Post  GarryB on Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:04 pm

    You make a good point Mindstorm, but in some respects it is also not 100% true.

    Domestic models of Russian equipment has no range or payload limits... the MTCR limits range to less than 300kms, but it also limits deliverable payload to 500kgs or less.

    The domestic Russian models have no such limitation, however until recently orders for any domestic models have been limited by the small number of operational aircraft actually able to carry and operate the new domestic weapons, so the very small batches purchased likely had more in common with export missiles than domestic ones.

    A good example is the Mig-29K... the Indians have pretty much paid for its development and production, and the Russian military are going to tack on an order for themselves, though they wont be getting the same aircraft... they will likely fit newer model engines with slightly more thrust (have heard of a 9.5 ton thrust version of the RD-33) and likely other modifications as well.

    In terms of missiles like the Kalibr family of missiles the range limitations are software based, so essentially the domestic and foreign missiles are the same, but with the right software patch the range of the land attack missile goes from 280km to 2,000km...

    I have also read recently that the new Kh-38 missile with options for IIR, MMW radar, semi active laser homing and GLONASS guidance options and combinations of these which has been reported to have a range of 40km for export as a replacement for the Kh-25 family and the Kh-29 has a range of 80km in the domestic version.

    Another example is the RVV-BD with 200km range against an 8g target while the domestic R-37m has a range of 280km against an 8g target.

    @George1
    A domestic version of the Kh-59MK2 would be the Kh-59M2 or something similar.

    The external engine pod would probably prevent the Kh-59M from being used in the internal weapon bay on the Backfire, but it could probably carry two missiles on each of its 4 external weapon points, though max load would probably be 7 as a datalink pod needs to be carried to communicate with the missile as it nears its target.

    I would think, in terms of conventional cruise missile attack that something like the Kh-555 would be a better choice... 3,500km range would be useful.

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    Re: Tu-22M3: News

    Post  George1 on Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:19 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    A domestic version of the Kh-59MK2 would be the Kh-59M2 or something similar.


    and its range?

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    Re: Tu-22M3: News

    Post  George1 on Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:54 pm

    Concerning their numbers i found that Vozdvizhenka Airbase is abandoned. So we have Tu-22M3 only in Shaikovka airbase and Belaya airbase for the air force (about 30 in each base). And in naval aviation bases in Alekeseyeva and in Olenegorsk (about 50 in both fields)

    http://englishrussia.com/2011/06/10/abandoned-air-base/

    Approximately 110 Tu-22M3

    GarryB
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    Re: Tu-22M3: News

    Post  GarryB on Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:20 pm

    I remember recently reading an article about the 30 Tu-22M3s to be upgraded to Tu-22M3M standard by 2020 and it said something like 140 operational Tu-22m3s...

    Regarding missile range it is hard to say, the Kh-59MK2 already has a good flight range... with a missile that uses a small turbojet engine range can be greatly increased with a change of flight profile and speed. Flying low all the way shortens potential range as with any jet aircraft so the scope to increase range is enormous.

    The range for the domestic version is likely limited by the distance the datalink operates from... whatever that range might be.

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    Re: Tu-22M3: News

    Post  George1 on Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:58 pm

    MKU-6-1 rotary launcher in its bomb bay could be used to carry any type of missile?
    Could be removed and leave space for conventional bombs in its bomb bay?

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    Re: Tu-22M3: News

    Post  GarryB on Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:25 am

    AFAIK the rotary bomb bay in the Backfire can carry up to 6 x Kh-15s, which are 1,200kg missiles.

    It can also carry up to 6 x 1,500kg bombs for a total weight of 9 tons.

    By offloading fuel the aircraft can carry a maximum of 24 tons but to actually carry 24 tons the internal bomb bay has to accomodate 24 x 500kg bombs, while the 4 external hardpoints each carry 3 tons each, so two 1,500kg bombs, or 1 x 3,000kg bomb each would do it.

    Of course the Kh-22M weighs 5.7 tons, so the aircraft should in theory be able to carry two FAB-5000s, with the remaining 14 ton payload potential perhaps used with two 3,000 kg bomb on the remaining two weapon pylons, though that would leave room for 8 tons which could be 4 x 1,500kg bombs and 4 x 500kg bombs on the internal rotary launcher.

    Or go for 6 x 1,000kg bombs for a bit of extra fuel.

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    Re: Tu-22M3: News

    Post  Mindstorm on Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:11 am



    and its range?

    George1 to the contrary of US military tradition ,culturally linked (in any field) to pompous self-boosting "shows" and claims to maintain public opinion national support and cohesion, Russian military tradition stress enormously on the central importance of information denial ,conflicting information or ,even worse, plain disinformation ,elements refined and perfected ,in the course of more than three decades, up to the point to become even a parts integral and of its military doctrine ,from the high strategic up the lower tactical level.

    This enormous difference become self evident when we examine pasted conflicts : for a Russian Generals order the employ an up-to-date and/or potentially crucial weapon system for an eventual war against NATO in a regional conflict against an immensely inferior enemy would be totally unconceivable .
    Only to provide a recent example, Russia in the 2008 South Ossetian conflict has destroyed half of Georgian naval unities employing exclusively....P-120 Malakhit !!!... in spite in the same naval group was present units equiped with modern supersonic and subsonic anti-ship missiles, among the 140 MBT used the most modern was 28 T-72BM of the older type with equal number of...T-62 and even some T-55 Very Happy Very Happy and that in spite the southern 19th and 20th motorized brigades of 58th Army was equiped with modern T-80UM and T-90A MBT ,not a single precision missile or bomb even close to life expiring (such as first optronic guided KAB bomb family of which Russia has even an excess) has been used and no modern tracking or communication equipment was employed (leaving in this way the hopes of USA analysts, with the USS Mount Whitney ,the most advanced ELINT unit of USA Navy purposely send in the area, shatter against a brick wall ).
    The result of those choices has been a victory in less than 5 days ,employing very limited forces at negligible costs and without surrender to western analysts even the shadow of any useful data...or even worse data completely wronged .
    The high efficiency of this doctrine ,foreseeing also the export to secondary allies of vastly downgraded specimen designed as a potent mean for conduct completely out of track western military analysts , become evident after Germany reunification when western scientists of the sectors get the chance to test original Soviet versions of T-72B with K-5 , discovering with horror that them was practically impervious to all the anti-tanks weapons present in NATO arsenal at the time and widely used in Desert Storm , or the outstanding capabilities of Krasnopol artillery rounds or the deadly efficiency of the R-73 and HMS on the east Germany Mig-29 or the fearful ECM/ECCM capabilities of the original soviet N019 radar mounted on them .
    You can realize why among Russian generals are very common ,still today, jokes on the "Yankees" employing theirs ,at the time, just completed and crucial F-117 and Ah-64 in ...Panama conflict !!! Laughing Laughing


    Returning to your initial question i give to you some hints

    the Saturn 39-01E cruise engine power the export version of Novator Klub family of missiles this version is limited to 280-300 Km, the domestic version with increased trust and fuel economy has a range of .....more than 2000 km !!!

    The Saturn 36MT cruise engine power the Kh-59M family, the export versions of those missiles have a range up to 285 Km and Jane's Defence say that on the element

    The 285 km range figure is likely to be an artificial 'book figure', quoted to keep the Kh-59MK within Class II Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR) guidelines (which forbid the export of weapons with a 300 km+ range). Exactly the same range is quoted for the Kh-59MK.

    The domestic version with increased trust and fuel economy has about the same trust to weight ratio of engine powering the AGM-158B a slightly better fuel fraction and obviously a not compromised aerodynamics layout "exchanged" for reduced X band radar observability .... "intelligenti pauca".


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    Re: Tu-22M3: News

    Post  George1 on Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:51 am

    Mindstorm wrote:

    The domestic version with increased trust and fuel economy has about the same trust to weight ratio of engine powering the AGM-158B a slightly better fuel fraction and obviously a not compromised aerodynamics layout "exchanged" for reduced X band radar observability .... "intelligenti pauca".


    That means 1000km range...

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    Re: Tu-22M3: News

    Post  GarryB on Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:28 pm

    Keep in mind that a 1,000km range missile will rarely be used against targets 1,000kms from the launch aircraft.

    Just like an assault rifle might have iron sights that go to 1,000m but the rifle will spend most of its time set for a 300m or less battle sight range.

    Such a weapon as Kh-59M will fly high and low to maximise its flight range and to make it difficult to detect. Over land it might fly dogleg turns around known radar sites or mountain ranges, or strongly defended positions with significant SAM capability...

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    Re: Tu-22M3: News

    Post  Viktor on Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:58 pm

    Well I guess X-32 as referred as Kh-32 than I guess this article is the first that throws some light upon T-22M3/Kh-32 combo and according to it, it seems T-22M3M is gona get it for the first time.

    http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=hr&rurl=translate.google.hr&sl=ru&tl=en&twu=1&u=http://www.militaryparitet.com/teletype/data/ic_teletype/13811/&usg=ALkJrhhf4KRlGLOFlwMUEuMBh5SLsvXpUg

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    Re: Tu-22M3: News

    Post  GarryB on Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:40 pm

    X is the Russian Cyrillic letter transliterated into the English Kh so they mean the same thing.

    The X-31 = Kh-31, just like the X-59MK is the Kh-59MK.

    Thanks for posting that BTW.

    I suspect that the Kh-32 was developed, but as the final fate of the Tu-22M3 was up in the air (ie will they upgrade or will they just scrap) that they probably didn't bother buying the new Kh-32, so the Kh-22M missiles seen on aircraft are actually Kh-22Ms, or perhaps dummys to represent a real payload.

    Now they have decided to upgrade some it makes sense to produce at least a small batch of Kh-32s, though as their roles will be very similar to the Kh-22M which was used on the older unupgraded aircraft the upgrades wont really effect their performance with these missiles.

    The real impact of the upgrades will be the ability to use a range of guided bombs and missiles that unupgraded models couldn't use.

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    Re: Tu-22M3: News

    Post  Mindstorm on Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:16 pm

    I suspect that the Kh-32 was developed, but as the final fate of the Tu-22M3 was up in the air (ie will they upgrade or will they just scrap) that they probably didn't bother buying the new Kh-32, so the Kh-22M missiles seen on aircraft are actually Kh-22Ms, or perhaps dummys to represent a real payload.

    Information on Kh-32 production ,like for any other critical and potentially "deciding" weapon in Russian arsenal, are some of the most strictly controlled of the whole Russian military sector and all units produced of those critical up-to-date weapons are, obviously ,all stocked and never shown on vehicles commonly employed for standard peace time operative tasks ; the motivation is that ,for a potential high-end enemy, against which those type of weapons would be used ,would be not only almost impossible to compute what carrying platforms and in what precise territorial position would be capable to employ them (in this way planning theirs missions and deployments accounting for the "area of risk" within theirs engagement footprint) but also render impossible to carry out pre-eventive saturating attacks on the underground sites where them are stocked .

    About its mere development history it Kh-32 is nothing of extraordinary or very surprising (....rather the contrary Wink .
    Kh-22 was in Soviet times not only one of the most outstanding and devastating weapon in URSS's arsenal (one without any corresponding anywhere worldwide), but ,unknown to most, also one of the most important basis test-bed platforms employed by Soviets ,before, and Russians, after, for very very very advanced (and not merely theoretical..), scientific works in Aerothermodynamics ,Physics and Engineering of materials ,Physics of Ionised Fields Variations and Disturbances, High Mach Aerodynamic Surfaces flow interaction etc..etc...

    The scientific works on the Kh-22 test-bed passed through the Kh-22B ,experimental cruise missile (technically a success but impossible to mass produce for the excessive costs and the enormous difficulties in the making process) and of which the actual Kh-32 is a "son", up to the scarcely known but outstanding Raduga D2 hypersonic test bed ,capable to sustain a speed in excess of Mach 6 up to 70 seconds in tests.
    The Raduga-D2 was not simply a theoretically useful test-bed for scientific studies and empirical validations but a true complete cruise missile deprived of some components for research purposes and scaled-down for allow its export.
    It was also exported, in a scaled down version ,in Europe -Germany- at beginning of '90 years (with a particular contract envisioning control and restrictions on the possibilities of share the information and some tests and modifications possible only in Russia by TsAGI and Raduga personnel) if has been practically, since then, the most used and debated hypersonic test bed in European scientific sector.
    At page 24 of this OHB publication you can find some specific of the exported Raduga D2 and at the previous page a simplified design of the system.


    http://ftp.rta.nato.int/public//PubFullText/RTO/EN%5CRTO-EN-AVT-185///EN-AVT-185-16.pdf

    Only for realize the potential of the basis Kh-22 layout, is sufficient to say that even only THIS export scientific test bed, (the not downgraded was available for test in Russia at beginning of 1989 !!) had anticipated of over ten years the tests conducted by NASA with X-43A (with a not fully independent hypersonic propulsion during only 10 seconds and costing a full order of magnitude more ).
    Moreover the difference in military value is even embarrassing ....


    NASA X-43





    Raduga-D2







    I repeat Kh-32's parameters can appear truly impressive on paper for foreign standard for weapons in its class ,but for Russian operators in the field (who have maked a loooong journey since achievements in the Raduga D2 years ) it represent ,in reality ,simply an upgraded and mass produceable modern day Kh-22M capitalising "know how" acquired more than 20 years ago !!!




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    Re: Tu-22M3: News

    Post  George1 on Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:59 pm

    GarryB wrote:

    The real impact of the upgrades will be the ability to use a range of guided bombs and missiles that unupgraded models couldn't use.

    Like KAB series laser guided bombs

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    Re: Tu-22M3: News

    Post  GarryB on Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:18 pm

    Thanks for info Mindstorm... always interesting.

    Like KAB series laser guided bombs

    Yes, though KAB just means guided bomb, so for instance the KAB-1500Kp-Pr is a guided bomb that weighs 1,500kgs that is TV guided and is a penetrating model for penetrating reinforced concrete shelters.
    The laser guided equivalent is the KAB-1500L-Pr.

    So K means guided, AB means HE Aerial bomb, 1500 is the approximate weight in kgs, L is the guidance (Laser... K is TV), and the Pr means it is a penetration bomb.

    If the Pr is not present... ie KAB-1500L it means it is a standard HE bomb and if OD is there instead of Pr ie KAB-1500L-OD then it is a fuel air explosive bomb.

    It will also likely use the new KAB-500S satellite guided bombs.

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    Re: Tu-22M3: News

    Post  George1 on Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:31 pm

    I made some thoughts about Tu-22M3M weapons

    1. Since it can carry cruise missiles only in its external stations (rotary launcher can carry only the Kh-15) it would be useful to be modernized to carry long range Kh-555 LACMs. (about 4-6?)
    It has no need to carry smaller, medium range missiles (Kh-31, Kh-35, Kh-59) since they can be carried from Su-34 or even Su-35 and these aircrafts have air to air capabilities to survive against enemy aircrafts. Kh-32 also has heavier WH, and greater range than Yakont

    2. Guided missiles would make a difference. Tu-22M3 attitude is smaller than other bombers, but the increased accuracy of tactical bombing will be a positive.

    3. Kh-32 Anti-ship/Anti-Radiation missile would be still its main weapon of all Tu-22M3s

    So we can have 2 main benefits. Strategic strike capability + Accuracy in tactical bombing

    Concerning the Kh-15, it would be interesting to see a new version of this missile to be carried by modern fighters as a tactical nuclear weapon like French ASMP missile

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    Re: Tu-22M3: News

    Post  GarryB on Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:43 am

    The tactical nukes... the point of the Russian upgrade of their military technology is to move away from nukes to weapons they could actually use and deploy overseas.

    Having said that short of fighting NATO or the US I would think missiles would be useful for the Tu-22M3 because of the standoff range it gives them, but in low intensity combat they would make ideal bomb trucks with its bomb capacity of 24 tons with up to 69 250kg bombs actually comparable to B-52 loads.

    The use of satellite guided bombs as well as TV and IR and laser guided bombs makes the Tu-22M3 the ideal medium bomber for dealing with problems in neighbouring countries.

    For instance when the US leaves if the Afghan government wants air support against taleban forces then a Tu-22M3 bombing run using satellite guided bombs with the target coordinates passed to the aircraft from forward observers within the Afghan units has proved effective. When you move forces into a region the enemy can either form up and oppose them which makes them an excellent target for air power, or they can run away which means the bombers can drop delayed action bombs in their escape routes.

    Certainly conventionally armed cruise missiles like Kh-555 and Kh-102 would be very useful but the Kh-32 is likely to remain its primary weapon.

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    Re: Tu-22M3: News

    Post  George1 on Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:14 pm

    Russian Air Force to Hunt for Aircraft Carriers

    Long-range airplanes Tu-22M3 of Russian Air Force will be involved in destruction of sea targets. Such airplanes effectively engaged training targets at the recent Northern Fleet's exercise, a source in Russian Navy Main HQ told Izvestiya. Now they will resume performing of their main tasks, i.e. destruction of enemy warships, primarily aircraft carriers.

    "Earlier on, those airplanes served within Russian Navy. But in 2011 they were reassigned to Air Force. Now pilots will execute sea-related tasks again", explained the staff officer.

    As was told Izvestiya at Air Force Main HQ, all available (about 40) airplanes Tu-22M3 will be meant for antiship missions.

    "As a matter of fact, this airplane was designed just as 'flattop killer'. But after the breakup of the Soviet Union, those tasks fell into the shade. Even more, naval aircraft became a kind of a stepchild", said the source.

    Recall that Tu-22M was introduced in 1969, in the height of the Cold War, as a platform for supersonic missile Kh-22 designed to counter American aircraft carriers. To find a large-size ship on sea surface, the missile was equipped with radio-contrast homing system. Several years later, the missile was upgraded to engage land targets.

    However, antiship function of airplanes was rarely used right up to 2012; latest missile launches at sea targets were held in 1989. Therefore, all Tu-22M3 pilots including those who were reassigned to Air Force are learning to engage warships from scratch.

    "Until 2012 pilots of our air group had no even theoretical skills of oversea flights. We used to practice only attacks upon land targets. Now we can orientate and search enemy ships. In April we practiced launches of Kh-22N missiles at sea targets", one of pilots told Izvestiya.

    As for him, since early 2012, Tu-22M3 aircraft perform monthly patrols over the Sea of Japan and the Barents Sea.

    "In prospect, it is planned that long-range aviation will engage opponent's naval targets with all available assets. Tu-22M3 will hunt for ships, and strategic missile-carrying aircraft Tu-95 and Tu-160 will destroy ports and naval bases", the Russian Navy's spokesman told Izvestiya.

    As for him, Tu-22M3 airplanes are capable to detect and attack enemy warships 2,000 km away from home base; Tu-95MS and Tu-160 with new cruise missiles Kh-101 will be able to destroy even the most protected naval bases 10,000 km away from launching site. So far, Russian Navy surface and submarine forces have no such capability except nuclear arms which are not used in conventional conflicts.

    According to chief editor of the Takeoff magazine Vladimir Scherbakov, Air Force's long-range aircraft will multiply combat capability of Russian Navy by several times.

    "In Soviet Navy, it was submarines and missile-carrying aircraft to destroy enemy ship groups at long distances. Today, submarine fleet has been considerably reduced and cannot perform this kind of tasks. After reassignment of naval missile-carrying aircraft to the Air Force, long-range bombers were the only component capable to accomplish that mission", Scherbakov told Izvestiya.

    According to British catalog Military Balance, Russian Air Force currently operates 16 aircraft Tu-160, 32 aircraft Tu-95MS (including mothballed ones), and 115 bombers Tu-22M3 with only 40 operable.

    http://rusnavy.com/news/navy/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=16072

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    Re: Tu-22M3: News

    Post  George1 on Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:09 pm


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    Re: Tu-22M3: News

    Post  GarryB on Tue Nov 05, 2013 6:05 pm

    According to British catalog Military Balance, Russian Air Force currently operates 16 aircraft Tu-160, 32 aircraft Tu-95MS (including mothballed ones), and 115 bombers Tu-22M3 with only 40 operable.
    Not very clear are they?

    According to Wiki the Russian AF had 93 in service in December 2010 and the VMF (Naval Air Force) had 58 in use in December 2010.

    The VMF birds were transferred to the AF and likely a lot were put into storage till they decided what to do with them... I would want a better source (in both cases... wiki and this British source) before I considered these numbers concrete.

    They have committed to upgrading at least 30 to Tu-22M3M standard by 2020.


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    Re: Tu-22M3: News

    Post  George1 on Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:17 am

    Tu-22M3 with Kh-32


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    Re: Tu-22M3: News

    Post  Cyberspec on Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:56 am

    Some info on the Kh-32 compared to it's predecessors (versions of the Kh-22).

    It's got almost the same dimensions, with increased range of 600km and increased max speed of 5400km/h


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    Re: Tu-22M3: News

    Post  TR1 on Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:45 am

    Guessing it has a higher flight profile?

    Curious what the approach speed is.

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    Re: Tu-22M3: News

    Post  Austin on Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:05 am

    TR1 wrote:Guessing it has a higher flight profile?

    Curious what the approach speed is.

    Its got High Altitude Cruise and Dive Approach towards target , during Dive the speed goes greater than Mach 4.

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    Re: Tu-22M3: News

    Post  Austin on Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:10 am

    Details on Tu-22M3M Upgrade

    Combat Aircraft Monthly July /Piotr Butowski ,snippets of the upgrade from the article "Backfire To The Future" Piotr Butowski 

    Tu-22M3M-1
    Tu-22M3M-2
    Tu-22M3M-3
    Tu-22M3M-4

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    Re: Tu-22M3: News

    Post  Austin on Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:14 am

    Note Kh-32 Range has almost double of Kh-22 variant and flies higher at 42 Km Altitude.

    Range of Kh-32 is around 800 Km

    For Tu-22M3M three new weapons are under development.

    Kh-32M  ( modernised variant of Kh-32 )
    Kh-SD ( Subsonic Stealthy 2000 km range missile )
    Kh-MT ( Supersonic Ramjet 1000 km Range missile )


    Last edited by Austin on Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:14 am; edited 1 time in total

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