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    Tu-22M3: News

    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:35 pm

    Look at pics of both cockpits I posted earlier, they look identical, from different angles.
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    Post  GarryB on Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:14 am

    I think that the reason is different: Tu-22s are to fight fleet both defending homeland and "clesring the way" for Tu-160 going for US mainland.

    The Tu-22 and Tu-22M were theatre bombers/long range strike aircraft, they were never intended for strategic missions like the Bear or Blackjack.

    The Blackjack would not need its way cleared... ICBMs and SLBMs would have hit every airfield and major SAM site and radar facility between Russia and the Blackjack targets within an hour of WWIII starting... those blackjacks and bears would still be in Russian airspace by then.

    They have similar planform, landing gear, nose & tail.

    So, M1 garand, M14 rifle, M16 rifle... is the M16 derived from the M1?

    Looks different, made of all different parts, does the same job. Probably all manufactured in the same factories.
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    Post  GarryB on Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:15 am

    Look at pics of both cockpits I posted earlier, they look identical, from different angles.

    Funny guy... cockpits were standardised in the soviet union... if you got photos of the Tu-22 cockpit, the Tu-22M cockpit, the Yak-26 cockpit, the Tu-128 cockpit, and the MiG-27 cockpit they would look the same too.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:50 am

    Between them, they all have more differences than similarities:
    https://www.google.com/search?q=Yak-26+cockpit&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjK9fCUz4zdAhUWIzQIHWaJAj0QsAR6BAgEEAE&biw=727&bih=381

    https://www.google.com/search?q=Tu-128+cockpit&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjau4uXz4zdAhV_IjQIHWPdCt8QsAR6BAgFEAE&biw=727&bih=381

    https://www.google.com/search?q=MiG-27+cockpit&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiYu_Kbz4zdAhWUMX0KHbWZAN0QsAR6BAgFEAE&biw=727&bih=381

    I'm an expert shooter of the M-16 rifle, but sadly not an expert on it & firearms in general. U r sidestepping the issue/argument by switching to poor analogies & comparing apples with oranges.
    The TU-22M is not that radical departure from the TU-22; the TU-160 is.
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    Post  hoom on Mon Aug 27, 2018 3:21 am

    Look at pics of both cockpits I posted earlier, they look identical, from different angles.
    Since you pointed it out, I looked at those again.
    Tu-22 hasn't got side by side seating -> the pic you labelled as Tu-22 is actually a Tu-22M cockpit.

    This is Tu-22 cockpit
    Tu-22M3: News - Page 18 Post-19311-0-42605300-1389552286

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 18 Post-19311-0-36353900-1389552285_thumb

    rear-seat (or the guy below & ahead of pilot?)
    Tu-22M3: News - Page 18 Post-19311-0-44533700-1389552280_thumb
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:56 am

    Thanks, they improved & rearranged it for the TU-22M:
    Tu-22M3: News - Page 18 Tupolev_Tu-22M-3%2C_Russia_-_Air_Force_AN1786126
    But still, to create the Backfire, the Blinder had to be designed & used 1st.
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:29 pm

    I'm an expert shooter of the M-16 rifle, but sadly not an expert on it & firearms in general.

    I own and shoot an M4 carbine... I am told it has an enormous range of accessories that I can buy to make it a super gun, but my local gun shops don't carry any of these things and when I find them on the internet they are often more expensive than just buying a new gun.

    It is accurate, but fragile...

    Nice long range rabbit gun but I would not trust the round for anything bigger.

    The TU-22M is not that radical departure from the TU-22; the TU-160 is.

    Well you claim the Tu-22 and Tu-22M are the same because they both have wings and a single vertical fin and two engines and crew in the front... well the Tu-160 has only two extra engines and is bigger but it also has a single vertical tail and four crew in front and swing wings so in a couple of ways it is as similar to the Tu-22M as the Tu-22.

    I mean moving two different engines from either side of the vertical tail into the fuselage is a serious thing... it completely changes the fuselage and the body with the addition of enormous air intake trunks... adding two more engines would not be that big a deal... especially when scaling the aircraft up that much... and they both have four crew...

    Thanks, they improved & rearranged it for the TU-22M:

    Looks totally different to me...

    But still, to create the Backfire, the Blinder had to be designed & used 1st.

    No it didn't... look at the chaotic nature of the real Tu-22 cockpit... compared to the more standardised and coloured cockpit of the later models... the pale green colour is a clue... they determined the old practise of black cockpits made it darker in the cockpit in conditions of bright sunshine and low light... having the green background made things lighter without being too bright and dazzling like white backgrounds would.

    It was a phase where usability and human computer interaction were becoming factors in design... they started standardising displays.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Wed Aug 29, 2018 7:42 pm

    Well you claim the Tu-22 and Tu-22M are the same because they both have wings and a single vertical fin and two engines and crew in the front...
    I never did, only that the 1st influenced the 2nd & it was derived (evolved) from the 1st. They learned from their mistakes to design & produce it.
    Later, 12 years after the B-1 appeared in the USA, they produced the TU-160. I have no doubt that they borrowed many ideas from it:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockwell_B-1_Lancer
    Tu-22M3: News - Page 18 Rockwell_B-1A_1
    Tu-22M3: News - Page 18 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ62PQuT8lvm4v6yHaSsZ9MWZppP6BrVdFnh0kUJvPPRfwtaM5O
    Tu-22M3: News - Page 18 X-Plane-9-B-1B-Lancer-v9-1
    TU-160:
    Tu-22M3: News - Page 18 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTTxm4RO2ckXvFGayZXuc__UQxSC7u1iBF1H4mPF55TFNWFi6d-jg
    Tu-22M3: News - Page 18 Maxresdefault
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    Post  mnztr on Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:21 am

    http://www.military-today.com/missiles/kh_32_images.htm

    nice pic hauling 2x kh-32
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    Post  dino00 on Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:47 am

    The first flight of the upgraded Tu-22M3M will take place before the end of the year.

    Conducted development work should improve navigation accuracy, the level of automation of machine control, as well as simplify maintenance and pre-flight training.

    KAZAN, December 20. / TASS /. The first test flight of the upgraded Tu-22M3M long-range missile carrier bomber will take place at the end of December. This was announced on Thursday by the Deputy Minister of Defense of Russia Alexei Krivoruchko during a visit to the Kazn Aviation Plant. S. P. Gorbunova.

    Today we saw the main thing that we wanted to inspect - this is the creation of the Tu-22M3M aircraft. The plane is almost ready to fly. The first flight will be made before the end of the year. We are pleased with the result,” Krivoruchko said.

    At the Kazan Aviation Plant, the Deputy Minister checked the preparations for the first flight of the new machine. In particular, the company demonstrated an engine race with a new control system, after which the crew reported on the successful conduct of this stage of preliminary tests.

    Conducting development work (ROC) on a Tu-22M3M aircraft should significantly expand the combat potential of the fleet of these bombers, including combat effectiveness and an increase in the radius of combat use. The Defense Ministry noted that the installation of new equipment and aircraft systems will improve the accuracy of navigation, the level of automation of machine control, simplify maintenance and pre-flight preparation.

    In the course of the R & D, front-line Tu-22M3s will receive the latest digital on-board radio electronics on the Russian element base, modern navigation, communications and sighting equipment, and electronic warfare equipment. On the machines will apply a new engine management system and fuel automation.

    The Deputy Minister also familiarized himself with the progress of the repair work with the modernization of the Tu-22M3 and the Tu-160 strategic missile-carriers at the enterprise. At the end of the visit, a meeting was held at which Krivoruchko, other representatives of the military department and specialists of the aircraft factory discussed the current issues of the implementation of the state defense order.

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5935387
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu Dec 20, 2018 5:50 pm

    Another confirmation that The ..Tu-22M3 is a deep modification of the Tu-22. It was developed by the Tupolev Design Bureau in the mid-1970s. The first flight was made on June 20, 1977, but the machine was accepted into service in 1989. Serially built until 1993.
    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5461074
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:04 pm

    Later, 12 years after the B-1 appeared in the USA, they produced the TU-160. I have no doubt that they borrowed many ideas from it:

    The B-1A was not a unique design when it appeared, there was a lot of influence of concord in it at the time and the requirements to be able to operate from reasonable length runways yet still have supersonic speed and long flight range with a reasonable payload pretty much limited the design choices of the time based on technology available then.

    Even today the Tu-160M has only recently been able to be made again because the main centre body box structure is one big piece of Titanium that needs to be forged and created as one piece... previously the only place that could be done was in the Ukraine so for most of the 1990s the idea of remaking some more was rejected.

    Since then the plans clearly involve large single piece pieces of Titanium in the manufacture of the PAK DA, which gives them the opportunity to make some Blackjacks before production of the PAK DAs begin on the equipment they would be needing to make them.

    If anything I would say the American engineers probably copied the designs for the Tu-144 and Concord when they designed the B-1A... then they scaled it down to the B-1B when they found it was too hard to make strong enough for a decent operational life...

    Another confirmation that The ..Tu-22M3 is a deep modification of the Tu-22.

    Only in the sense that the MiG-23 is a deep modification of the MiG-21... same number of engines... but different engines.... swing wing instead of fixed wing, different fuselage shape, but both with radars in their nose and both carry AAMs...
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:56 pm

    Those 2 fighters have more & bigger differences than the 2 bombers. The Russians not connected to Tupolev, so many years later, & after the USSR is gone, still state in the article that the Tu-22M3 is a deep modification of the Tu-22. To state otherwise would not earn them any respect from aviation historians & engineers.
    If u don't see that way, it's ur choice.


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  eehnie on Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:48 pm

    Tsavo Lion in this case is quoting the source, GarryB

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5461074

    New equipment of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation

    Aug 16, 11:00

    "Counter Fire".  What will surprise the new Tu-22M3M bomber bomber?

    Long-range Tu-22M3M missile bomber
    ©️ Egor Aleev / TASS

    The history of the creation of the Tu-22M and its modifications, as well as the unique flight performance of the new car - in the TASS material

    On the territory of the Kazan Aviation Plant named after SP.  Gorbunov , the presentation of the new Tu-22M3M.  This is the first deep modernization of the long-range supersonic Tu-22MZ bomber-carrying bomber with a variable sweep wing that is in service of the Air & Space Forces of the Russian Federation.  The first flight of the new machine is scheduled for September this year.  It is planned that 30 Russian VKS aircraft will be upgraded to the level of the Tu-22M3M.

    Aircraft of this type are designed to hit supersonic guided missiles and bombs of land and sea targets at any time of the day and in any weather conditions.  Can also be carriers of nuclear weapons.

    According to data from open sources, currently about 60 units (modifications of the Tu-22M3 and Tu-22MR) are in service with long-range aviation of the Russian Federation Air Force.  Tu-22M3 used in hostilities in Afghanistan, on the territory of South Ossetia (in 2008) and successfully participated in the Syrian campaign, striking various targets of terrorists.

    According to Tass military commentator Viktor Litovkin, modifications of this vehicle have been in service for more than 40 years, but "have not lost their combat mission even nowadays. This aircraft, like its strategic aviation counterparts, is one of the instruments for deterring a possible aggressor" .

    "The revolution in aviation"

    In 1969, US intelligence recorded the existence of a new bomber.  A year later, his first pictures were taken from the satellite at the factory airfield in Kazan.  The aircraft was identified as a long-range bomber with variable geometry wing and two engines.  He was given the name Backfire, which means "counter fire".  This name stuck in our country.

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 18 4775096
    Bomber Tu-22, 1968 TASS
     Tu-22 bomber, 1968
    ©️ TASS


    The long-range supersonic Tu-22M3 is a deep modification of the Tu-22.  It was developed by the Tupolev Design Bureau in the mid-1970s.  The first flight was made on June 20, 1977, but the machine was accepted into service in 1989.  Serially built until 1993.

    Several modifications were created, only one of which was produced in large series.  There was a zero series, the first, and then the “two” appeared - the Tu-22M2 (option with an increased combat load).  As admitted in an interview with Gazeta.Ru in June 2017, Pyotr Deinekin, the first commander-in-chief of the Russian Air Force, "she became a revolution in aviation, she had variable wing geometry, afterburner operation of engines, combined charging of bombs and missiles - it was a real breakthrough in the combat use of supersonic aircraft. "

    Variable sweep appeared already at the zero series, but the zero and the first cars were so “raw” that the long-range aviation command categorically refused to accept them.  "Two" also began to be produced in large quantities, all of them were produced about 250 cars.  When the Tu-22M2 was already sufficiently mastered, it was replaced by another car, because it did not reach the standards required by the Air Force — speed and range.

    Peter Deinekin
    First Commander of the Russian Air Force, Hero of Russia

    According to data from open sources, a total of 497 units of Tu-22M of various modifications were released, including 268 units of Tu-22M3.  Currently, according to the magazine The Military Balance, there are 62 aircraft of this version in Russian aviation.

    In addition, the armament has a version with reconnaissance equipment in a container version instead of a bomb load - the Tu-22M3R (Tu-22MR).  In the late 1980s, about ten copies were built.

    In addition, in the 1990s, the Tupolev Design Bureau worked out the possibility of creating a supersonic Tu-344 business jet for 10–12 passengers on the basis of the Tu-22MZ.  Also in the late 1990s and 2010s, the possibility of using the Tu-22M3 as a platform for launching artificial satellites into Earth orbit was studied.

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 18 4775106
    Long-range Tu-22M3 bomber Ladislav Karpov / TASS
     Long-range Tu-22M3 bomber
    ©️ Ladislav Karpov / TASS

    The Tu-22M3 aircraft is made according to the normal aerodynamic configuration of a cantilever low-wing with a low-wing variable sweep.  The minimum sweep angle is used during takeoff and landing, and the maximum angle is used for flying at supersonic speeds or at extremely low altitudes.  The design is mainly made of aluminum alloys, as well as high-strength and heat-resistant steels, titanium and magnesium alloys.

    The aircraft has a semi-monocoque fuselage, a tricycle retractable landing gear with a nose strut.  The power plant includes two turbojet dual-engine engines with an afterburner chamber NK-25 (thrust at the afterburner - 25 thousand kgf).


    Flight technical characteristics of the Tu-22M3

    •  The length of the aircraft - 42.46 m;  wing span - from 27.70 m (with 65 degrees sweep) to 34.28 m (with 20 degrees sweep).
    •  The maximum flight speed is 2000 km / h.
    •  Tactical radius of action - 2200 km.
    •  Practical ceiling - 14,000 m;  practical range - 7000 km.
    •  Crew - 4 people in a sealed cabin.
    •  The combat load is 24,000 kg (maximum), 12,000 kg (normal).

    Continuation

    Aircraft armament: double-barreled stern gun GSh-23L 23 mm caliber (750 rounds of ammunition), guided and aeroballistic missiles, various types of sea mines.  The rockets are located in the fuselage compartment and on the pylons under the fixed part of the wing.

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 18 4775128
    OFAB-250-270 Russian Federation / TASS
     OFAB-250-270 bombs
    ©️ Office of the Press Service and Information of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation / TASS

    There are active and passive means of jamming.  Crew members in an emergency can leave the cabin using ejection seats.

    Tu-22M3 - unique.  It can carry the most diverse set of ammunition weighing up to 24 tons at a distance of up to 7000 km.  Moreover, it can strike both ground targets, including deeply recessed targets, such as headquarters and command posts, as well as surface targets, including aircraft carrier groups of a potential enemy.

    Viktor Litovkin
    TASS military commentator

    There are no such aircraft abroad.  “They were not exported, although information about negotiations with the supply of these aircraft to China, India and Iran was repeatedly leaked to the press,” said a military expert.

    "Absolutely other possibilities"

    Modern modification - Tu-22M3M - further modernization in order to increase combat effectiveness and extend the resource.  From the former Tu-22M3 aircraft there was one glider left and part of the aircraft systems and aircraft equipment.

    As a result of deep modernization, a new Tu-22M3M aircraft was produced.  It installed a completely new avionics.  Another result of the work done will be the extension of its service life to 45–50 years.

    Alexander Konyukhov
    General Director of PJSC "Tupolev"

    For modernization, combatants Tu-22M3 will be taken, who will receive new avionics, aim-navigation complex and other on-board radio-electronic equipment.  Improved cab ergonomics.  Its radio-electronic equipment and engines will be the same as those of the newest Tu-160M2 (new engines NK-32-02 of Samara Kuznetsov PJSC).

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 18 4775138
    Tu-22M3M in the final assembly shop of the Kazan Aviation Plant. SP Gorbunova Egor Aleev / TASS
     Tu-22M3M in the final assembly shop of the Kazan Aviation Plant.  S.P.  Gorbunova
    ©️ Egor Aleev / TASS

    The complex of on-board radio-electronic equipment Tu-22M3M will be absolutely new and unified with Tu-160M2.  This applies to all avionics, including navigation and sighting system

    TASS source in defense

    During the tests, the first Tu-22M3M "run-in" on it will pass equipment for the strategic missile-carrier Tu-160M.  According to the commander of the long-range aviation of the Russian Federation, Lieutenant-General Sergey Kobylash, this is done in order to completely check the new systems in the air and, if necessary, correct all the shortcomings and “growing pains” that have occurred, in order to install only proven equipment on the reproducible Tu-160.

    Kobylas also said that as a result of the upgrade, the Tu-22M3M received an improvement in all characteristics, including an increased range of its flight.  “The machine is really interesting. Basically everything in it is transferred to a digital basis, the characteristics of navigation, bomber and rocket weapons are improved, the range of this aircraft is increased,” he said.  The deep modernization of the Tu-22M3M gives this plane "completely different possibilities" compared to the current combat bomber.

    The capabilities of this car are impressive and far surpass all similar foreign cars.  This machine has artificial intelligence.

    Sergey Kobylash
    Commander of Long-Range Aviation of the Russian Federation, Lieutenant General

    According to data from open sources, after upgrading the Tu-22M3M will be able to use modern long-range precision weapons.  It can also carry high-precision non-nuclear weapons, including the X-32 cruise missile with a target range of up to 600 km.  These capabilities will expand the range of applied tasks and turn the Tu-22M3M into a multifunctional shock machine.

    By the way, in July of this year it became known that the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation carried out tests of a Tu-22M3 bomber with a new air-to-surface missile.  The video of the joint exercises of long-range aviation aircraft and the MiG-31K was posted by the military on its Facebook page.  The video showed an X-32 air-to-surface missile designed to destroy sea and land targets.  According to unconfirmed reports, the rocket has a range of up to 1 thousand km, the speed is five times the speed of sound.

    The fact that the arsenal of the Tu-22M3 replenished with the latest cruise missiles, reported back in 2016, the newspaper "Izvestia" .  "The X-32 is practically invulnerable to enemy air defense systems and interceptor fighters," the publication wrote citing a source in the Russian military-industrial complex. "After launching from a carrier aircraft, the product gains altitude up to 40 km, going into the stratosphere, and then at a steep angle diving at the target. "

    Another sensation in the media was the information that the Tu-22M3 could become another carrier of aeroballistic hypersonic missiles from the composition of the aviation complex Dagger.  A regular carrier of missiles today is the MiG-31K fighter.  It was reported that the new aircraft will be tested in the composition of the shock complex.  “The dagger” will be tested on the Tu-22M3, ”the agency’s source said , adding that“ several hypersonic rockets will be tested on one bomber. ”The source did not name the start of the tests. TASS does not have official confirmation of this information.

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 18 4775150
    Interceptor MiG-31K fighter with a hypersonic Dagger rocket
    ©️ Alexey Nikolsky / Presidential Press Service / TASS

    According to the former commander of long-range aviation, Lieutenant-General Mikhail Oparin, the Tu-22M3 is "excellent" for testing Dagger missiles in terms of their weight and dimensions.  “Will he be able to disperse her [rocket] - that’s what should be tested, to get results. For a“ long-range ”rocket, rather, an operational plan, at the same time it clearly wins in its ability to overcome the enemy’s air defense,” said Oparin, noting that the "Dagger" - a heavy rocket, designed specifically for long-range bombers.

    I think it's all about speed.  The MiG-31 has a supersonic speed higher than that of the Tu-22M3, but if now it is possible to test missiles on a long-range aircraft, then this must be done.  This will enhance the combat capabilities of the RF Aerospace Forces and add power to them.

    Mikhail Oparin
    former commander of long-range aviation, lieutenant general

    On this topic

    "Fox Hound" with "Dagger": how the MiG-31 became the carrier of hypersonic weapons

    Another TASS source in the defense industry noted that the range of use of the Dagger hypersonic missile will reach about 3,000 km with a new aircraft-carrier - Tu-22M3 bomber, with MiG-31K it is more than 2,000 km.  “That is, it can be used outside the air defense / missile defense zone of a potential enemy, which makes his strike irresistible,” says military expert Litovkin.  The missile of the Dagger complex flies 10 times faster than the speed of sound and is capable of overcoming all existing and prospective missile defense and air defense systems.

    The first demonstration flight of a deep-upgraded Tu-22M3M will take place in September.  According to the head of "Tupolev" Alexander Konyukhov, in the same month the plane will begin to pass factory tests with the subsequent transfer to state joint tests.  "They will last for several months, according to their results, the Russian Ministry of Defense will decide on a deep modernization of the first batch of Tu-22M3 combat vehicles," he said.  The first serial Tu-22M3M will go to the troops in 2021.


    Prepared by Roman Azanov

    The material used data "TASS-Dossier"

    GarryB, you can pretend this is a mistake again, but with a picture of one unit of the early variants of the Tu-22, there is not mistake.

    The entire article is complete and very interesting, if someone wants to read it.
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    Azi

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    Post  Azi on Fri Dec 21, 2018 4:17 pm

    @eehnie what kind of complete and utterly bullshit you are posting here?

    The Mig-31K is a modification of the Mig-31, but the Tu-22M is a complete new design and not just a modification of the Tu-22! Just look at the picture! Do you have eyes or not???

    Tu-22 is no swept wing design, the engines are at a complete different position, the airframe itself looks complete different! Not a single Tu-22 was modernized into the Tu-22M, because it's a a complete different plane. Of course they used a lot of technology and experience from Tu-22 for the Tu-22M (nearly same intended role), but the words "deep modernization" means something complete different...not old planes modernized from Tu-22 to Tu-22M, it means a nearly complete new design!
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    Post  Big_Gazza on Fri Dec 21, 2018 4:59 pm

    Azi wrote:@eehnie what kind of complete and utterly bullshit you are posting here?

    The Mig-31K is a modification of the Mig-31, but the Tu-22M is a complete new design and not just a modification of the Tu-22! Just look at the picture! Do you have eyes or not???

    Tu-22 is no swept wing design, the engines are at a complete different position, the airframe itself looks complete different! Not a single Tu-22 was modernized into the Tu-22M, because it's a a complete different plane. Of course they used a lot of technology and experience from Tu-22 for the Tu-22M (nearly same intended role), but the words "deep modernization" means something complete different...not old planes modernized from Tu-22 to Tu-22M, it means a nearly complete new design!

    The Tu-22M designation was a ploy by the Russian military to develop a replacement for the Tu-22 which was a great disappointment.   They got the government approval based on "upgrading" the Tu-22 but the reality is that the Tu-22M is a new design that leveraged a few Tu-22 components (eg fwd fuselage sections and undercarriage?) to save money.

    Some people continue to argue the Tu-22M is an upgraded Tu-22, just like others argue the Tu-95 is based on the Tu-4...   lol1
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:21 pm

    Words "deep modernization" mean building a new aircraft on the basis of its predecessor, leaving some old design elements in place. There r no set rules on what should/shouldn't change during such modernization.
    In the case of the Tu-22M, the nose & tail r similar to the Tu-22, while the rest of the fuselage, wings, cockpit & avionics r completely different. Tu-22:Tu-22M3: News - Page 18 Tu-22
    Due to the disappointing performance of the Tu-22, the Tupolev design bureau was tasked with extensively modifying the design to produce the Tu-22M. The Backfire, as it is known in the West, features swing wings and more powerful engines located within the fuselage rather than on external pods. Thanks to these changes, the Tu-22M can reach speeds of Mach 2 at altitude and close to Mach 1 in low level flight.
    http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/bomber/tu22m/
    Tu-22M3: News - Page 18 Tu22m_schem_01
    Tu-22M3: News - Page 18 1_8_b1
    Tu-22M3: News - Page 18 75875d1501088381t-007

    New variants of planes like Il-76/-18/-22/-38s, C-130s, Tu-95/-142s & B-1/-52s remained almost the same on the outside, but very different inside.


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:36 pm; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : add pic., link)
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    Post  eehnie on Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:05 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Azi wrote:@eehnie what kind of complete and utterly bullshit you are posting here?

    The Mig-31K is a modification of the Mig-31, but the Tu-22M is a complete new design and not just a modification of the Tu-22! Just look at the picture! Do you have eyes or not???

    Tu-22 is no swept wing design, the engines are at a complete different position, the airframe itself looks complete different! Not a single Tu-22 was modernized into the Tu-22M, because it's a a complete different plane. Of course they used a lot of technology and experience from Tu-22 for the Tu-22M (nearly same intended role), but the words "deep modernization" means something complete different...not old planes modernized from Tu-22 to Tu-22M, it means a nearly complete new design!

    The Tu-22M designation was a ploy by the Russian military to develop a replacement for the Tu-22 which was a great disappointment.   They got the government approval based on "upgrading" the Tu-22 but the reality is that the Tu-22M is a new design that leveraged a few Tu-22 components (eg fwd fuselage sections and undercarriage?)  to save money.

    Some people continue to argue the Tu-22M is an upgraded Tu-22, just like others argue the Tu-95 is based on the Tu-4...   lol1

    then Russians continue with the plot about the Tu-22, but not about the Tu-95/142 based on the Tu-4 lol1
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:53 pm

    I'm just going to ignore this dumb argument that is going nowhere. On to some other discussion, isn't there some 18 gutted Tu-22M airframes left at the abandoned Vozdvizhenka Airbase (Vozdvizhenka, Primorsky Krai)? Outside of weather corrosion, could a deep refurbishment, alongside deep modernization, could they be air-worthy airframes in 5 years time?

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 18 Tu-22-Backfire-Vozdvizhenka

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 18 Tu-22-Backfire-Vozdvizhenka-2

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 18 Tu-22-Backfire-Vozdvizhenka-4

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 18 Tu-22-Backfire-Vozdvizhenka-5
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    Post  Isos on Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:57 pm

    They could have saved them with a big hangar worth nothing to build. Wonder why they don't build some cheap ones to save them from bad weather dunno. Now it will need a biig modernization worth millions just for corrosion.

    Anyway better spend money on a new plane that on those destroyed airframes.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:13 am

    Hangars must also be maintained & environmentally controlled, so it's not cheap. Those planes may still yield some usable parts, but otherwise r only good to be sold for smelting.
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    Post  franco on Sat Dec 22, 2018 5:54 am

    Believe they were Tu-22M2's not the more modern M3's.
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    Post  JohninMK on Sat Dec 22, 2018 8:28 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Words "deep modernization" mean building a new aircraft on the basis of its predecessor, leaving some old design elements in place. There r no set rules on what should/shouldn't change during such modernization.
    ........................
    New variants of planes like Il-76/-18/-22/-38s, C-130s, Tu-95/-142s & B-1/-52s remained almost the same on the outside, but very different inside.

    Sorry but that is not how I would use of that phrase in engineering in the UK.

    To me "deep modernisation' is taking an existing structure, in this case an existing airframe, and updating parts of it with new elements, which may include virtually everything bar the main structure.

    It is not redesigning the structure incorporating new elements. That is a new product.
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    Post  Hole on Sat Dec 22, 2018 10:18 am

    franco wrote:Believe they were Tu-22M2's not the more modern M3's.

    Tu-22M3´s. Look at the air intake. But they were old and had a lot flying hours, starts and landings. There are younger/less used planes in much better storage to modernise.

    Bonus:

    Tu-22M3: News - Page 18 24289810
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:04 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    Tsavo Lion wrote:Words "deep modernization" mean building a new aircraft on the basis of its predecessor, leaving some old design elements in place. There r no set rules on what should/shouldn't change during such modernization.
    Sorry but that is not how I would use of that phrase in engineering in the UK.
    To me "deep modernization' is taking an existing structure, in this case an existing airframe, and updating parts of it with new elements, which may include virtually everything bar the main structure.
    It is not redesigning the structure incorporating new elements. That is a new product.
    That too, like with the MiG-31 & Tu-95/-142/-22M. The quoted Russian article used that term regarding the Tu-22 & Tu-22M.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan_MiG-31#Variants
    https://sputniknews.com/military/201607221043482724-russian-tu-95ms-military-analysis/
    http://www.defenseworld.net/news/23198/Russia_to_Modernize_Tu_95MSM_Strategic_Bombers
    http://www.defenseworld.net/news/23193/Russia_to_Roll_out_First_Prototype_of_Modernized_Tu_22M3M_Bomber_Thursday


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:12 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add link)

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