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    Russian Military Satellites: News & Development

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    Russian Patriot
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    Russia to build submarine-detecting satellite!

    Post  Russian Patriot on Fri Apr 16, 2010 1:21 am

    Russia to build submarine-detecting satellite

    RIA Novosti

    15/04/201019:59

    MOSCOW, April 15 (RIA Novosti) - Russia could build a satellite for the detection and tracking of submarines from space, a defense industry spokesman said on Thursday.

    Vladimir Boldyrev, of the Kosmonit science and technology center, said the group had developed a space satellite module that could carry out remote sensing of the sea and "detect submerged submarines."

    "Hopefully, it will be tested in space as early as 2011," he said, adding that work on the module started over a decade ago.

    He offered no indication as to when the new satellite would enter service with the Russian Armed Forces.

    Boldyrev added that the dual-use module would be used for both defense and civilian purposes, in particular, providing meteorological data.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2010/russia-100415-rianovosti01.htm
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    Re: Russian Military Satellites: News & Development

    Post  Farhad Gulemov on Fri Apr 16, 2010 3:19 am

    I am not sure about this, but I am pretty confident that what we are talking about here is a technology which uses radar technology to map the surface of the ocean/sea water and which can detect a slight buldge created on the water surface by a submarine. This is not a new idea, I remember rumors about the Soviet Union already having that kind of capabilities in the late 1980s early 1990s. With this stuff you never know. Russian engineers are brilliant and they often succeed in actually implementing technologies which have been evaluated and rejected in the West. The use of supercavitation on the Shkvall torpedo or forward swep wings (as on the SU-47) are examples of that.

    Other options would be remote wake-detection. Temperature, salinity and magnetism are, as far as I know, not an option.

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    Re: Russian Military Satellites: News & Development

    Post  GarryB on Fri Apr 16, 2010 3:31 am

    A submerged submarine moving through the water even at low speed stirs up water which can be detected on the surface as a wake of mixed temperature air.

    I too have read about over the horizon radar that can detect small rises in sea height created from a passing submarine but I don't know how reliable that would be in anything but calm sea.

    There is also the blue green laser technology that can see hundreds of metres down into sea water.

    Considering most military subs can't submerge more than 400-500m and most rather less then this will be adequate for most cases.

    It seems strange to think that most big subs can't submerge more than 4-5 times their own length without being crushed... it would be like a 747 not being able to fly more than 500m or so in the air.
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    Re: Russian Military Satellites: News & Development

    Post  Farhad Gulemov on Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:11 pm

    Farhad Gulemov wrote:I am not sure about this, but I am pretty confident that what we are talking about here is a technology which uses radar technology to map the surface of the ocean/sea water and which can detect a slight buldge created on the water surface by a submarine.

    Just to clarify: I was referring to satellite-born radars. I have never heard of an OTH-B being able to do that (my understanding, which might be mistaken, is that their frequency would be too low for this task).

    But then - there are so many things which I have not heard off Embarassed that I would not dismiss it either Wink
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    Re: Russian Military Satellites: News & Development

    Post  GarryB on Sat Apr 17, 2010 4:33 am

    It is my understanding that OTH-B or Over the Horizon Back scatter radars can detect the rise in sea level generated by a submarine passing through the water.

    I would think that thermal sensors that detect the cooler water churned up by the passage of a submerged sub, or more sophisticated a blue green Lidar that can detect objects hundreds of metres below the sea surface are the most likely options.
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    Re: Russian Military Satellites: News & Development

    Post  Stealthflanker on Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:17 am

    I'm also curious with this...

    whether they use IR Imaging or a RADAR System
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    Re: Russian Military Satellites: News & Development

    Post  GarryB on Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:58 am

    The device is either a very accurate synthetic aperture radar that can detect the small rise in sea levels of a sub passing underwater, which would allow it to detect the presence but not type of sub, or an IR sensor to sense the cooler water churned up by a passing sub creating a wake of mixed temp water or it could be a blue green laser radar or Lidar that can see several hundred metres under water.

    Subs, depending on their type very rarely communicate with home base. SSBNs will sit near the surface waiting for launch orders, but will not transmit themselves. SSNs might transmit occasionally but for most of their time they are hunting and listening themselves.

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    Re: Russian Military Satellites: News & Development

    Post  brudawson on Thu Jun 17, 2010 8:15 am

    Its a great idea. I think its difficult but not impossible. B'cos in sea water we use the sonar technology and in air we use radar system. Satellites used the infrared radiation. And detecting submarines in sea through satellite its interesting. After build submarine-detecting satellite Russian Navy is in great power.
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    Re: Russian Military Satellites: News & Development

    Post  Vladimir79 on Thu Jun 17, 2010 8:33 pm

    GarryB wrote:The device is either a very accurate synthetic aperture radar that can detect the small rise in sea levels of a sub passing underwater, which would allow it to detect the presence but not type of sub, or an IR sensor to sense the cooler water churned up by a passing sub creating a wake of mixed temp water or it could be a blue green laser radar or Lidar that can see several hundred metres under water.

    Subs, depending on their type very rarely communicate with home base. SSBNs will sit near the surface waiting for launch orders, but will not transmit themselves. SSNs might transmit occasionally but for most of their time they are hunting and listening themselves.

    The device is an ELINT, electronic signals satellite. It picks up the radio and microwave band emissions from ships and submarines then pinpointing the location.
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    Russian Military Satellites: News & Development

    Post  milky_candy_sugar on Fri Jul 23, 2010 6:06 pm

    Leading Russian spacecraft producer Energia has presented a concept of a universal military satellite with offensive capabilities.
    The 20-ton orbiter with a life expectancy of 10 to 15 years would be powered by a 150 to 500 kilowatt nuclear reactor and will be able to “monitor territories and airspace, provide informational superiority – including in armed conflicts – and perform target designation and traffic control. It will also be offensive-capable,” said Energia head Vitaly Lopota, as cited by ITAR-TASS news agency.

    He did not specify what offensive capabilities the satellite would have; whether it will be able to target other spacecraft, ground targets, or both.

    The concept goes against Russia’s voiced intention to keep space an arms-free zone. However, with several nations believed to be actively pursuing space-based or anti-satellite weapons, Energia’s design may find support among the country’s leadership.


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    Re: Russian Military Satellites: News & Development

    Post  NationalRus on Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:26 pm

    hmmm..... we need a nuclear weapons offensive military satellite... but its dangerous, the last thing that we ... the WORLD needs is a nuclear weapons race in the fucking space.... but we need some, im sure usa and even china have such programms... we need to build some and lunch them in secret under cover as a "normal" satellite... that would be my opinion
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    Re: Russian Military Satellites: News & Development

    Post  Russian Patriot on Sat Jul 24, 2010 1:33 am

    NationalRus wrote:hmmm..... we need a nuclear weapons offensive military satellite... but its dangerous, the last thing that we ... the WORLD needs is a nuclear weapons race in the fucking space.... but we need some, im sure usa and even china have such programms... we need to build some and lunch them in secret under cover as a "normal" satellite... that would be my opinion


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    Re: Russian Military Satellites: News & Development

    Post  GarryB on Sat Jul 24, 2010 1:56 am

    If the US wont commit to a treaty banning weapons in space then Russia simply has no choice.
    The irony is that the US is the most reliant country in the world on their extensive satellite network so they actually have the most to lose in the weaponisation of space.
    Just put some satellites in orbits that largely match the satellites the US is using to manage the war invading your country and then as they get close in their orbits flick a switch on the ground and boom both satellites disappear along with many of the other satellites around them.
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    Re: Russian Military Satellites: News & Development

    Post  Stealthflanker on Sat Jul 24, 2010 4:15 pm

    Will this "Offensive Sat" will be another form of Skif/Polyus Very Happy ?

    I think if development of that "offensive Satellite" begin.. the Skif will be a good starting point

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    Re: Russian Military Satellites: News & Development

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jul 25, 2010 9:28 am

    Not only was Polyus an interesting system, it was clear proof of the superior design of the Buran space shuttle system.
    Because the "main tank" and two "side mounted thrusters" are actually one rocket system that lifts the Buran into space (ie conceptually a rocket with a glider on its back, as opposed to the US space shuttle design that was like a plane with an enormous fuel tank underneath that needed two large solid rocket boosters to get it airborne) it means that the 100 tons of Buran can be left on Earth and a large satellite system up to 100 tons in weight can be lifted into earth orbit in one piece.
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    Russia loses military satellite

    Post  Vladimir79 on Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:14 am

    Russia loses military satellite: reports

    AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE
    Published: 1 Feb 2011 15:51

    MOSCOW - Russia's top military and space official launched a search Tuesday for a missing military satellite that apparently was put into the wrong orbit shortly after its launch.

    The Russian defense ministry confirmed that it had lost sight of the craft - a dual-use vessel that can draw a three-dimensional map of the Earth and locate the precise positions of various targets.

    The incident came just a month after President Dmitry Medvedev sacked two top space officials for a similar setback and delivered another humiliating blow to Russia's much-maligned space industry.

    The seriousness of the situation was underscored late Tuesday by reports that the defense ministry had set up an urgent joint task force with the Russia's space agency to look for the missing craft.

    The Geo-IK-2 satellite was created in Russia to help the military survey land and create a detailed three-dimensional map of the Earth. It was designed to spin in a circular orbit 1,000 kilometers (600 miles) above ground.

    But news reports said that the satellite had been put in an elliptical orbit whose lowest point brought it to within 330 kilometers of Earth.

    "We have still not been able to establish contact with the craft, and it looks like most likely, it will be declared lost," a Russian space source told the Interfax-AVN news service.

    "The spacecraft will not be able to perform its intended functions at these orbit characteristics," another space official told the news agency.

    Reports pointed the initial blame for the failure on the satellite's Briz-KM upper stage rocket.

    The satellite's launch had already been delayed from December because of technical malfunctions that were detected at its northern Russian launch site in Plesetsk.

    Tuesday's malfunction came less than five weeks after Medvedev fired two top space officials and reprimanded the space agency chief for a launch failure caused Russia to delay the deployment of its own navigation system.

    Russia's Proton-M rocket had on that occasion proven too heavy to reach its initial orbit and had been forced to dump its three high-tech Glonass-M satellites near the Hawaii Islands.

    Investigators said that accident was caused by a basic fuel miscalculation that made the craft too heavy to reach its required height.

    The three Glonass satellites would have completed a system whose research had been started by the Soviet Union in 1976.

    http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=5593198&c=EUR&s=TOP

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    Re: Russian Military Satellites: News & Development

    Post  Pervius on Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:12 am

    Problem now launching satellites for everyone....

    Everyone knows how to alter atmosphere from afar to put more drag on your missile/satellite to increase drag....not reach orbit.

    Those Russian missile tests with the big swirly's look like someone has a hand over the missile keeping it from climbing.

    New Radio Tower arrays being used to alter atmosphere far away?

    At what point will those radio tower arrays be attacked for messing with peoples stuff? Simple sensors could detect atmospheric changes showing atmosphere too dense where it's supposed to be thin...or non existent.
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    Re: Russian Military Satellites: News & Development

    Post  GarryB on Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:43 am

    Everyone knows how to alter atmosphere from afar to put more drag on your missile/satellite to increase drag....not reach orbit.

    Gas escaping the earths atmosphere is normal... and we can't even predict the weather for next week with 100% accuracy... do you really think anyone can change the shape of the atmosphere?

    Those Russian missile tests with the big swirly's look like someone has a hand over the missile keeping it from climbing.

    It looked swirly because the rocket exhausts were oriented to make the missile spin. The best way to protect a missile from laser attack is to make it spin so that the laser can't concentrate on a single point like the rays from a magnifying glass on an ant.

    Most radio towers... are radio towers.

    And the best way to stop other people from using atmosphere weapons on you is to build your own and threaten them back.
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    Re: Russian Military Satellites: News & Development

    Post  nightcrawler on Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:34 am

    Actually what it comes down to is a multitude of factors, namely the thickness of the missiles body, ablative shielding if present, the energy output of the laser, and duration of laser on the target. Depending on the laser duration on target a missile could theoretically spin fast enough to throw off a lasers damage. Mind you this is assuming something like 10 kilojoule laser roughly dumping its energy every second (effectively 10 kilojoules per second) on a target X size. The key to killing missiles and even planes (potentially even tanks in the future) is dumping the energy VERY VERY fast in pulses. Do it fast enough and not even mirrored surfaces help. Dump your same 10 kilojoules of energy on a target over .05 microseconds and you got yourself an equivalent roughly to a 20 gigawatt laser shining on said surface for 1 second
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    Re: Russian Military Satellites: News & Development

    Post  GarryB on Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:24 pm

    At a target sitting in a lab is one thing... over thousands of kms through space junk is another.

    Remember also that space based assets are subject to direct targeting themselves.

    Also the new Russian rockets have new boosters with shorter burn times to reduce the boost phase and when the payload reaches space there is no bus so you will have decoys deployed and individual missile warheads to deal with... that don't have enormous IR plumes at their bases to make them stand out.
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    Re: Russian Military Satellites: News & Development

    Post  nightcrawler on Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:19 am

    that don't have enormous IR plumes at their bases to make them stand out.

    They will have a marginal IR signature against the cold Space though
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    Re: Russian Military Satellites: News & Development

    Post  GarryB on Fri Mar 11, 2011 2:51 am

    They will emit some IR energy because they will be hotter than 0 degrees Kelvin, but the difference would be enormous... spotting a rocket plume would be easy. Spotting a warhead bus from thousands of kms would be practically impossible so you would have to use radar to try to narrow the search.

    And as we know Buses are being replaced in Russian missiles by MARV warheads... so the trillions of dollars it would cost to get an effective laser constellation has been wasted...
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    Re: Russian Military Satellites: News & Development

    Post  nightcrawler on Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:21 pm

    ^^
    Even if plumes be detected can you tell me if we can get precise coordinates & trajectories of warheads or just OTH radars will tell there is something out there but not have enough data to intercept them
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    Re: Russian Military Satellites: News & Development

    Post  GarryB on Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:42 am

    If you are firing lasers then you don't need a precise range because the speed of light is so fast that an approximate range will do... just aim a low power beam and adjust it forward till it strikes the darker part in front of the IR plume and then crank the beam up to full power.
    During the boost phase there is no manoeuvring and a simple ballistic path that is very predictable.
    Extreme manoeuvres at this stage would generate enormous g force on a very light structure designed primarily to hold a lot of fuel so even small trajectory changes need to be carefully made to prevent a collapse and destruction of the rocket.

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    Re: Russian Military Satellites: News & Development

    Post  Pervius on Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:29 pm

    """... do you really think anyone can change the shape of the atmosphere?"""

    Yes. There are several countries playing with that technology.

    1997 US Secretary of Defense Cohen: """Others are engaging even in an eco- type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves. """

    www.defense.gov/transcripts/transcript.aspx?transcriptid=674

    You should read the Patents for HAARP that are publicly available as well as the scientific papers written by very credible scientists.

    There are people playing GOD with that technology today on Earth. These new weapons are much more powerful than nuclear bombs. Somebody could effect the atmosphere and make Russia's cotton crop fail for example. Well then they'd have to buy US cotton. See how ideal such a weapon would be? Deny space access, destroy a countries crops....don't even have to fire bullets anymore.

    God doesn't run Earth anymore.

    Russians know this:
    www.rferl.org/content/Russian_Scholar_Warns_Of_Secret_US_Climate_Change_Weapon/2114381.html
    http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/6550323-russian-scientist-blames-moscow-heat-wave-on-us-climate-weapon

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